all you cocker dudes

[NU_METAL]

question ,
i know this is a automag forum ( & im still mainly a maggot) i got a pump lighting
cocker that rolls every ball out of the barrel after pumping it /before pulling the
trigger ,if you even begin to point that maker towards the ground ,they roll out
looking @ this animation ;
http://www.zdspb.com/media/tech/animations/autococker_wgp.gif
it looks like there is nothing i can do about it
any suggestions ?

update ; this works flawless so far about about a hundred rounds pumped through it and no roll outs :D your dremil will do it all ,and a veneer(or caliper) sand the inside just alittle (.750)total and only .50 thou deep inside of barrel (the thickness of the phantom detent),then cut off .50 thou off your freak inserts (i have so many and i dont feel so bad ,its only smart parts ) the pics do the rest ;) ;)
<a href="http://imageshack.us"><img src="http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/9382/hpim1930sr1.jpg" border="0" alt="Image Hosted by ImageShack.us"/></a><br/><a href="http://g.imageshack.us/g.php?h=301&i=hpim1930sr1.jpg"><img src="http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/9382/hpim1930sr1.29db2fe804.jpg" border="0"></a>
<a href="http://imageshack.us"><img src="http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/5096/hpim1931vv7.jpg" border="0" alt="Image Hosted by ImageShack.us"/></a><br/><a href="http://g.imageshack.us/g.php?h=151&i=hpim1931vv7.jpg"><img src="http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/5096/hpim1931vv7.713f0d19a6.jpg" border="0"></a>
<a href="http://imageshack.us"><img src="http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/8331/hpim1932ti9.jpg" border="0" alt="Image Hosted by ImageShack.us"/></a><br/><a href="http://g.imageshack.us/g.php?h=502&i=hpim1932ti9.jpg"><img src="http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/8331/hpim1932ti9.c5f99ceeaf.jpg" a>

this way when you put your barrel on ,its snug on the end to get sandwitched inbetween the breech and detent/insert

[punkncat]

Cocker noob!!!!! :D


Must bore match closed bolt markers or the ball will roll out.

[NU_METAL]

Cocker noob!!!!! :D


Must bore match closed bolt markers or the ball will roll out.

virgin to the autocock,..er is defenitly it :rofl: :rolleyes:
yeah i tryed that ,should i go about 2 sizes down ? i try & blow the ball through it and
it seems really tight to the point of breaking ,then i bring it up one size and it rolls out
(feek inserts that is )

[punkncat]

Must be just slightly tight. You should be able to blow them through with a little bit of effort, but if you go too small you will start to see barrel breaks.

Not sure what paint you are using, but if its not good and consistantly round it can be a pain in the butt to get a good bore match.

Enjoy your new cocker. They have a gravitational pull all their own.

[Ruler_Mark]

nail polish widgits

[NU_METAL]

nail polish widgits

what does this mean ?
by the way ,.on the field tomorrow im definitly going around saying "GeT OUT
PLAYER"!! :rofl:

[NU_METAL]

Must be just slightly tight. You should be able to blow them through with a little bit of effort, but if you go too small you will start to see barrel breaks.

Not sure what paint you are using, but if its not good and consistantly round it can be a pain in the butt to get a good bore match.

Enjoy your new cocker. They have a gravitational pull all their own.

thanks guys for jumping on this ,i really want to play w/ it tomorrow ,so i wasn't sure
if there was a nifty trick i didn't know about w/ these" pump/snipers"

[dyeforever]

you can put small strips of electric tape and the end of the barrel to help prevent roll outs.

[esperto96]

what does this mean ?
by the way ,.on the field tomorrow im definitly going around saying "GeT OUT
PLAYER"!! :rofl:

Nail polish widgets are just a drop or two of nail polish added to the inside of the barrel just in front of where the ball will be chambered after you pull the bolt foward with the pump arm. It shrinks the diameter of the barrel to hold the ball at just that point to prevent roll-outs. Overtime the nail polish may wear out and you will need to reapply it but it should last you plenty long enough. It is an old school solution, cheap and effective.

[NU_METAL]

Nail polish widgets are just a drop or two of nail polish added to the inside of the barrel just in front of where the ball will be chambered after you pull the bolt foward with the pump arm. It shrinks the diameter of the barrel to hold the ball at just that point to prevent roll-outs. Overtime the nail polish may wear out and you will need to reapply it but it should last you plenty long enough. It is an old school solution, cheap and effective.

thanks ill def keep that in mind
what about if your using freak inserts :rolleyes:

[dyeforever]

if your using freak inserts just size your insert to your paint.

[DevilMan]

Hey Nu.... that is my one and only beef with AC's. I HATE ROLLOUTS!!!!! I so wish they would have made a way that you could better control em. Yeah I know sizing systems and widgets. But really??? How hard would it have been to put something in there that isn't a "fix"

Anyway, what the guys above have said is how to fix it.

Good luck!!

DM

[NU_METAL]

Hey Nu.... that is my one and only beef with AC's. I HATE ROLLOUTS!!!!! I so wish they would have made a way that you could better control em. Yeah I know sizing systems and widgets. But really??? How hard would it have been to put something in there that isn't a "fix"

Anyway, what the guys above have said is how to fix it.

Good luck!!

DM

totally agree D.M. thanks
(dyeforever) theirs a method to my madness and all of your fix's are great but,.....and hear me out on this one -their is no perfect paint ( 1 out of 5 balls rolled out after sizing it ) and that's no good by me because of my style of pump play ,i pump it ,point it down ,then take the shot ,especially when im playing rec ball w/ a pump
now i dont want to get crazy into the whole barrel and ball theory( its pointless) but when you under size the bore tight to the paint its just really inconsistent F.P.S. wise , ultimately changing velocity and using more air then id like .where detents wont do that until they fail

but your right, until i find a better way for me ,im doing it just the way you and the guys on this thread suggested :D

and because i cant leave things alone ,.. :rolleyes: .....i will design something because
i love this wgp lightning cocker and this is my ONLY complaint about it

[kansas kaos]

Hey Nu.... that is my one and only beef with AC's. I HATE ROLLOUTS!!!!! I so wish they would have made a way that you could better control em. Yeah I know sizing systems and widgets. But really??? How hard would it have been to put something in there that isn't a "fix"
Anyway, what the guys above have said is how to fix it.
Good luck!!
DM
That's why most of us Autococker dudes have barrel kits.
BTW.... PsychoBallistics Lightning, not a Cocker. :nono:

[finklogangt@yahoo.com]

The detent only helps with double feeding...

as everyone else said... it's a barrel bore match issue. Barrel kit, python kit, or widgets.

[Smoothice]

( 1 out of 5 balls rolled out after sizing it )


Thats not too bad.

Honestly if you are going to play pump then you will want to have the best paint possible. A paint that is consistently the same size, round, and brittle.

With a pump you may only get one shot so it needs to count.

But I look forward to your double detent :cheers:

[FeWolf]

cockerTEch (http://www.moodypb.com/cart/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=23&zenid=f79231a56871d6a35b4ede3c917c5dc4) good site for cocker info and video

[NU_METAL]

cockerTEch (http://www.moodypb.com/cart/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=23&zenid=f79231a56871d6a35b4ede3c917c5dc4) good site for cocker info and video

thanks for the link , great site for cocker specs :headbang:

[Smoothice]

cockerTEch (http://www.moodypb.com/cart/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=23&zenid=f79231a56871d6a35b4ede3c917c5dc4) good site for cocker info and video


this is cocker tech http://www.cockertech.com/index.php
:rofl:

both great sites.

[NU_METAL]

update
if your interested go to the top
enjoy :headbang:

[PhoenixWolf]

Nice bit of work there. That said, closed bolt is effectively dead in the industry for many, many reasons. Lack of detents, and performance problems resulting from the bolt defaulting to the closed non-feeding position. The bolt must always return to the ready position as quickly as possible to prepare for the next shot, and will always spend most of its time in this position. When you start trying to get very high performance closed bolts, you run into trouble because the default state is a non-feeding state and past a certain point, you will always get a blender.

[NU_METAL]

Nice bit of work there. That said, closed bolt is effectively dead in the industry for many, many reasons. Lack of detents, and performance problems resulting from the bolt defaulting to the closed non-feeding position. The bolt must always return to the ready position as quickly as possible to prepare for the next shot, and will always spend most of its time in this position. When you start trying to get very high performance closed bolts, you run into trouble because the default state is a non-feeding state and past a certain point, you will always get a blender.

i couldn't agree more ,ive been working on markers /playing w/ markers for many years & i never really cared for WGP autocockers (especialy when i e-bladed them trying to uncap & raise BPS , bla bla bla ,) just one big pain in the hinny ,as far as im concerned but i Love the way this one performe's w/ this CCM pump kit on it ,smooth,accurate,and now no roll outs :)
thiers no better feeling then taking out a great player w/a fast BPS marker than w/ one shot from this bad boy :ninja:

[punkncat]

Nice bit of work there. That said, closed bolt is effectively dead in the industry for many, many reasons. Lack of detents, and performance problems resulting from the bolt defaulting to the closed non-feeding position. The bolt must always return to the ready position as quickly as possible to prepare for the next shot, and will always spend most of its time in this position. When you start trying to get very high performance closed bolts, you run into trouble because the default state is a non-feeding state and past a certain point, you will always get a blender.

What level of performance are you talking about?

There is certainly no issue going to come from 13.3 or 15 BPS that will cause a properly set up cocker to start chopping paint simply because it is closed bolt. As a matter of fact that (BPS) threshold is quite a bit higher than that. With the addition of QEV's it gets even better.

The only issue that I know that causes cocker to chop is a problem on mechanical ones and caused solely by short stroking the trigger. Eblades with a correct bolt open time matched to the loader will not experience that problem at all. Any marker, open or closed cycling at high speed with an insufficent "BIP" delay can and will have the same symptom without some mitigating circumstance, like eyes.
The only other "issue" would actually be a barrel break from sizing the bore too small.

[NU_METAL]

What level of performance are you talking about?

There is certainly no issue going to come from 13.3 or 15 BPS that will cause a properly set up cocker to start chopping paint simply because it is closed bolt. As a matter of fact that (BPS) threshold is quite a bit higher than that. With the addition of QEV's it gets even better.

The only issue that I know that causes cocker to chop is a problem on mechanical ones and caused solely by short stroking the trigger. Eblades with a correct bolt open time matched to the loader will not experience that problem at all. Any marker, open or closed cycling at high speed with an insufficent "BIP" delay can and will have the same symptom without some mitigating circumstance, like eyes.
The only other "issue" would actually be a barrel break from sizing the bore too small.

punk
from what Ive read about you ( lurked the threads ) especially when it comes to cockers '
your the "man" or @ least one of um .In MHO i think that mags and cockers are the Mustangs & camaro's (muscle cars ) of the paintball world , i just never got that great w/ um
now that's not to say that their not capable of Greatness because ive witnessed cockers @ just "holy good mother of god " performance ,accuracy ,the whole nine yards
i just never had the patience for um ,so now i got a simplified one (tech & tune ) wise :rolleyes:
in other words ,...i will always respect & admire many brands ,im just a maggot @ heart

[punkncat]

punk
from what Ive read about you ( lurked the threads ) especially when it comes to cockers '
your the "man" or @ least one of um .

Well, thank you for the complement. I don't know about being the "man" but I know my way around a cocker pretty well. There are a lot of myths and misconceptions about closed bolt markers. Some of it is infamiliarity, some of it downright BS. Cockers do have a lower physical ROF limit that some other markers simply due to the cycling mass. A lot of the reason that halfblock mods, delrin bolts, QEV's, etc. came to be a part of many "high end" cockers. That limit is well beyond what is needed in any game anywhere for anything aside from wow factor at the chrono station.
But to say that a cocker goes blender just because it is closed bolt, well I think that should be filed right beside the shoot farther thing. Things like that upset my gnomes. ;)