AGD in the future.

[punkncat]

This is not a doom and gloom thread. I am not trying to emulate a bunch of other threads in which we sit and discuss how it is all going down the drain, or how changing this that or the other about the product line would magically re-invigorate the company.

I am sure that at this point there is enough "cottage" intrest in the company to keep it afloat for a good while. With low overhead and whatnot, I would like to think so.

Let us imagine that some person or entity came up with the asking price and purchased AGD.

With the current lineup of markers, and even if the bullet was bitten and the company did what it took to re-release the E and X mag lineup. Stock levels, storefront/webpage revamped. Huge cash infusion with the inclusion of sponsorship of both (scenario and "x ball") type teams, great marketing campaign, advertizing in all the hot magazines as well as web sites, re-introduction of parts and products to suppliers and stores. Full and continued support to all dealers, as well as some possible connection with current aftermarket parts suppliers who build to AGD spec.

What level do you think AGD could or would return to? Would it be an investment that would give a return?

Not that I have the money of course, just thinking out loud.

[punkncat]

As an after thought and not wishing to edit the first post.

Consider for a moment what happened and really is happening with WGP when they tried to reinvent the name brand after the buy out.

Now it is not to say that with the renewed success of the company (if that were the case) that R & D should stop alltogether. But that aspect of the continued success or operation is really not what I am looking for consideration or opinion on.

[Ruler_Mark]

R&D is most of the investment in a project. It is do-able. An it can be done profitably. However the amount of money that would be required todo so is too large to warrent such a come-back because of the state of the economy.

[Chronobreak]

As an after thought and not wishing to edit the first post.

Consider for a moment what happened and really is happening with WGP when they tried to reinvent the name brand after the buy out.

Now it is not to say that with the renewed success of the company (if that were the case) that R & D should stop alltogether. But that aspect of the continued success or operation is really not what I am looking for consideration or opinion on.


wgp is a bad example, though it is an example nonetheless.

the guys that took over wgp just decided to put the wgp name on spyder type markers and ion type markers as opposed tos ticking with the cocker platform.

i would venture to say that agd would have to stick with the valve platform basicly leaving little to change with the marker as a whole.

one complaint ive always had is not the lack of aftermarket parts but the inability to find a place that has a regular stock of both stock and aftermarket parts.

ordering a frame from dealer A, a body from dealer B, and a basic mag from Store C just really isnt very efficent.

i think the mag community would go nuts over the infusion but everyone else would go on doing what they were, the e-mags are way out of date as far as tech goes, and i wont go into what could be done to revamp the mag since we have alot of those threads already.

one thing im sure agd could do is take a larger leap into the rec/scenario guys perhaps going to events to show off gear/reliability test etc etc which might lead to a larger following...or not.

i finaly got my pneumag and a hypermag, and am happy with both of them and cant see anything else that i desire in either one at this point.

[viper-mayhem]

This is an idea I've had. If AGD were to partner up with some of the people that make the bodies for Airsoft guns and combine the valve/bolt to go into some kind of scenario marker, that would really make a big hit in the woodsball type player. So many people are using different airsoft rifles and customizing them for paintball internals. If AGD did it, they wouldn't have to do to much as far as RND work other than prefabs for the internals. Just a thought.

[Ninjeff]

as much as i like the idea....i think, in this scenario, AGD dies without TK. PLain and simple. The whole company was built on his ingenuity, solid product, and his dedication to pushing both players, and the sport. TK and AGD are one and the same. Personally, i dont think AGD would even dent the current market unless they came out with something that revolutionizes the sport, or at least some aspect of it.

Besides, what is AGD without TK anyway?

[-Z3R0-]

Besides, what is AGD without TK anyway?

A business run out of a garage?

[Sundown]

IMO, it would be hard and pricy for AGD to really have a good market in woodsball.
I play woodsball and scenario ball and when I go to the field and play with my AGD Tac-One, people are like : What is that? A speedball gun?
When I say it's an Automag, they don't even know what an automag is.

Right now, the ''best'' woodsball marker in the eyes of woodsball players seem to be the BT TM7. It's just that woodsball player don't know about the automags. BT has so much marketing on the TM7 that everybody is selling their gear to get one :)

This is only to say that alot of woodsball player don't even know about automags.
Big companies (Tippmann and BT) have the market in woodball because they can spend alot in marketing on ther markers.

So I don't know how it could work out :)

[lather]

I will probably get flamed for this but I think the E and X mags would not sell if re-released without some major design changes. (see the Mini)

IMO mech mags are innovative and the epitomy of mech gun engineering, but electro mags in comparison seem a knee jerk and somewhat slapped together design response by AGD in order to appease players clamoring for more rof when electros came on the scene.

[Hilltop Customs]

I agree. Sales might be good with people who love AGD, but outside of us what kid playing paintball will buy an emag instead of some other cheap electro.

I wouldnt call the emag slapped together though, they took an awesome platform and added what people wanted, the ability to reach higher ROF. Hell they even included they ability to use the mechanical design if something happens to the electronics.

[Beemer]

Hell they even included the ability to use the mechanical design if something happens to the electronics.

And still today the ONLY PaintBall gun I know of to be able to do this. :ninja: :spit_take

[tech-chan]

I call for a challenge.

If you are able to do so, or have the design equipment, I challenge you to design AGD's next gun.
The marker that would take them out of being old school, to the newest and best of the rugged beat-me-up guns. There is only one rule. You must use an xvalve. Other than that, everything is free play.

I will be posting up my creation soon, and hope to see you all do the same.

[Hilltop Customs]

And still today the ONLY PaintBall gun I know of to be able to do this. :ninja: :spit_take

Do you think this feature would still be so important if the difference between the mechanical trigger pull and the electronic pull was negligible?(meaning they both require about the same force) This really means the only difference between the two is that electronic guns can ramp, and mechanical cant.

The design I'm currently working on could EASILY accomplish this same feature, but is it really worth it if only adds ramping to the marker?

tech-chan that sounds like fun, might have to draw something up....

[custar]

IMO, it would be hard and pricy for AGD to really have a good market in woodsball.
I play woodsball and scenario ball and when I go to the field and play with my AGD Tac-One, people are like : What is that? A speedball gun?
When I say it's an Automag, they don't even know what an automag is.


I disagree with this. I have argued for quite a long time AGD could be successful in the scenario market. In my area, quite a few woosballers not only know what an Automag is, they use them. I recently converted an inveterate autococker user into a Micromag user. There is a market for quality, dependable scenario markers in the right trappings. Start with replicas of M4's and AK47's and go from there. AGD should move into the WW II era next with a Garrand, Thompson, Mauser, and Enfield. The Automag valve is so versatile, it can be put into a replica of just about any firearm. The drawback would be the cost. AGD needs to be able to hit a price point of below $300.00, and unless the valve is redesigned to save production costs, that is unlikely to happen.

custar

[bjyourk]

I agree with CUSTAR about the price point. The guys I play woodsball with really like the TAC-1, but price is definitely an issue. Apparently, you can trick out an A-5 pretty well for the price of a TAC....nevermind the difference in performance. Getting one is spoken of in the same terms as winning the lottery......"What I wouldn't give...", or similar.

[Sundown]

There is a market for automags in woodsball for sure. Sorry if I seemed to say the opposite. I know alot of people who want quality and are looking for the Tac-One.
I just know alot of woodsball player who wants a marker that looks like a ''real'' firearm. Like a Tippmann A5 or X7 modified to look like a machine gun.

I do also agree that the price is a big factor. But some people look at it the wrong way. Buying a Tac-One (with ASA and line) you don't need to upgrade anything and you have a top quality marker.
With an A5, you need to upgrade alot to have a quality marker which is even not close to a Tac-One (IMO). I am sure that in the long run, people put more money into a A5 than a Automag. 100$ here, 150$ there... it will add up and be higher than the price of a tac-One :)

And there is the fact that alot of woodsballers love to upgrade their marker like they want it. For it to be original. That is another very huge factor.

[Sundown]

I call for a challenge.

If you are able to do so, or have the design equipment, I challenge you to design AGD's next gun.
The marker that would take them out of being old school, to the newest and best of the rugged beat-me-up guns. There is only one rule. You must use an xvalve. Other than that, everything is free play.

I will be posting up my creation soon, and hope to see you all do the same.

This is actually a really good idea. I wish I had the talent and program to do so :) haha

[LK-13]

Should i actually win a lottery I would seriously look into investing/buying out AGD and altering the company slightly.

Edelbrock doesn't build cars, but many cars have Edelbrock parts;
in a similar way i think AGD should go modular.
sell gun components using the AGD valve design.
this way tons of bodies, rails, unibodies, grip frames and other assorted parts can be supplied on a per order basis according to demand.
once each body or rail design is programed into the CNC machines it's no big issue to run 1 or 1000 parts if they all start from the same dimensioned stock.

it would not be a huge General Motors type business, that would be almost impossible,
but to give people what they want, offer choice, keep it user friendly...
turning it into a custom DIY supply house just might build the momentum needed to reestablish the name over time.

[warbeak2099]

They would either have to come up with a completely revamped gun platform or have some miraculous advertising to convince people that Mags are up to snuff now. The first option would be easier.

[punkncat]

So, in essense the feel that I am getting is that "NO" it would not work. A cash infusion into the advertizing, support, product visibility, etc. would have no effect with the current platform. That the at least limited opinion here, even among mag fans, is that the "E" lineup would be a waste to bring back. And that finally, without TK there is no chance for the company regardless.

Does that sum it up?

[Sundown]

Well I would not say ''NO'' all the way.
I am really new in the automag department so I may not have a vision or understanding like you all do.
But I used to have a MilSim marker and I just found some reviews of the automag Tac-One on some internet site and wondered what it was. Forgot about it for a while and then say someone that had one where I play and then I decided to cash up and get one.

So I just think alot of people don't know about the Tac-One or automag at all. I know alot of people who are willing to pay good money for a good marker. I mean, just look around at all the woodsball players that are buying the new BT TM7 at 400$ Well for 100$ more you can have the Tac-One.
I just think poeple don't know about the Tac-One, so they just don't think about getting one.

The only problem is... marketing is really expensif and that would probably mean a rise in prices from AGD... so that might not work fully ;)
I don't know if AGD does go to big events and have a ''stand'' there. But that would probably help alot.

Anyhow,.. that is only my automag ''newbie'' opinion on this :) haha

[ThePixelGuru]

So, in essense the feel that I am getting is that "NO" it would not work. A cash infusion into the advertizing, support, product visibility, etc. would have no effect with the current platform. That the at least limited opinion here, even among mag fans, is that the "E" lineup would be a waste to bring back. And that finally, without TK there is no chance for the company regardless.

Does that sum it up?
No, I disagree. I think given the right circumstances and choices AGD could easily do well again. The question is just at what cost.

Basically, with Xmod an E/Xmag is functionally the same (if not better) than most modern markers. There are three things that would keep people from buying them, though: weight, appearance and reputation. I'm not saying any of those are justified, I'm just saying that's how it is for the majority of paintballers. A revamped Emag along the lines of a DIY electro-pneumatic 'mag could be a lot lighter, a little smaller, and with a little cosmetic work remind people of nothing about the old Emags. That plus a new marketing campaign would probably move a lot of new 'mags.

'Mags still have this reputation for being dinosaurs, and for the most part the factory 'mags are pretty boring looking to most people. I had a friend of mine trying to convince me to ditch my 'mag and get a modern electro - as soon as I showed him a Karta 'mag with an aftermarket frame he changed his mind pretty quickly and even started thinking about building one. Only after he saw the spiffy Karta 'mag did he actually start to listen about the ULT, X-Valve, Level 10 and the like. As long as it looked "boring" to him, he was convinced the 'mag had nothing to offer.

As far as Tom Kaye goes, there's no reason AGD needs him specifically. TK has a lot of virtues that meshed particularly well with AGD, such as an uncompromising desire to design exactly what is needed and the willingness to go the extra mile to make sure the design is as good as it can be. All AGD needs is a frontman and lead designer who isn't satisfied with a design or approach that's just "good enough" - a rare and extremely desirable quality to be sure, but not one unique to Mr. Kaye.

[Brewtt]

I call for a challenge.

If you are able to do so, or have the design equipment, I challenge you to design AGD's next gun.
The marker that would take them out of being old school, to the newest and best of the rugged beat-me-up guns. There is only one rule. You must use an xvalve. Other than that, everything is free play.

I will be posting up my creation soon, and hope to see you all do the same.


Bummer... I wanted a redesigned X-valve with the air input on THE BOTTOM... coming through the rail. DO AWAY with the dreaded "Automag hose issues" to the valve. ;)

That's how you redesign the mag to appeal to those who want the newest and best. Make it with less hoses hanging off it. ;)

Then redesign the I-frame so the trigger guard doesn't look so dorky. :p

[tech-chan]

Who said that you can't turn the xvalve?

[Sundown]

Who said that you can't turn the xvalve?

Yeah good point. Turn the Xvalve and have the hose run to the ASA but through the trigger handle. That would ''hide'' the hose.

This could be a good idea ;)

[tech-chan]

Maybe I should just shoot myself in the face instead of making stupid posts like that. How the heck are you going to activate the on/off if its on the right side?

[Hilltop Customs]

pneu ;)

[tech-chan]

Someone needs to invent a different drop in on/off that works purely pnue!!!!

[lather]

No, I disagree. I think given the right circumstances and choices AGD could easily do well again. The question is just at what cost.

Basically, with Xmod an E/Xmag is functionally the same (if not better) than most modern markers. There are three things that would keep people from buying them, though: weight, appearance and reputation. I'm not saying any of those are justified, I'm just saying that's how it is for the majority of paintballers. A revamped Emag along the lines of a DIY electro-pneumatic 'mag could be a lot lighter, a little smaller, and with a little cosmetic work remind people of nothing about the old Emags. That plus a new marketing campaign would probably move a lot of new 'mags.

'Mags still have this reputation for being dinosaurs, and for the most part the factory 'mags are pretty boring looking to most people. I had a friend of mine trying to convince me to ditch my 'mag and get a modern electro - as soon as I showed him a Karta 'mag with an aftermarket frame he changed his mind pretty quickly and even started thinking about building one. Only after he saw the spiffy Karta 'mag did he actually start to listen about the ULT, X-Valve, Level 10 and the like. As long as it looked "boring" to him, he was convinced the 'mag had nothing to offer.

As far as Tom Kaye goes, there's no reason AGD needs him specifically. TK has a lot of virtues that meshed particularly well with AGD, such as an uncompromising desire to design exactly what is needed and the willingness to go the extra mile to make sure the design is as good as it can be. All AGD needs is a frontman and lead designer who isn't satisfied with a design or approach that's just "good enough" - a rare and extremely desirable quality to be sure, but not one unique to Mr. Kaye.

E-X mags are less effecient, more expensive, and no more reliable than modern electros, on top of that they use a propeitary battery system and have little to no aftermarket support.

Please enlighten me on their fuctional superiority to modern markers. :p

[Wanta B Sniper]

Think outside the battery ;)
While the pump market isn't nearly as large as the scenario/electro market, I think that if AGD were to start with producing a pump/SC Mag - and as long as it's price could compete with CCM or Carter Machine products - then I think that it could (slowly, but surely) re-introduce (and popularize) AGD to the mainstream market once they got some recognization in a growing market.

[DanMan]

We have seen that with the gforce frame that a well enginnered pneuframe can be walkable out of the box and easy for non gearheads to work with. Forget trying to ressurect the the emag. As much as I would like an e/xmag the average person wants to slip in a 9volt and go. Even better if there is no battery. A intelli (or even the gforce frame) frame modified to work with the gforce internals could be easily marketed to people. First to the people who alreay have a mag and then as a stock feature of rt pros. If you can get the price down to $150 or so then you will have a real killer.

[Ninjeff]

No, I disagree. I think given the right circumstances and choices AGD could easily do well again. The question is just at what cost.

Basically, with Xmod an E/Xmag is functionally the same (if not better) than most modern markers. There are three things that would keep people from buying them, though: weight, appearance and reputation. I'm not saying any of those are justified, I'm just saying that's how it is for the majority of paintballers. A revamped Emag along the lines of a DIY electro-pneumatic 'mag could be a lot lighter, a little smaller, and with a little cosmetic work remind people of nothing about the old Emags. That plus a new marketing campaign would probably move a lot of new 'mags.

'Mags still have this reputation for being dinosaurs, and for the most part the factory 'mags are pretty boring looking to most people. I had a friend of mine trying to convince me to ditch my 'mag and get a modern electro - as soon as I showed him a Karta 'mag with an aftermarket frame he changed his mind pretty quickly and even started thinking about building one. Only after he saw the spiffy Karta 'mag did he actually start to listen about the ULT, X-Valve, Level 10 and the like. As long as it looked "boring" to him, he was convinced the 'mag had nothing to offer.

As far as Tom Kaye goes, there's no reason AGD needs him specifically. TK has a lot of virtues that meshed particularly well with AGD, such as an uncompromising desire to design exactly what is needed and the willingness to go the extra mile to make sure the design is as good as it can be. All AGD needs is a frontman and lead designer who isn't satisfied with a design or approach that's just "good enough" - a rare and extremely desirable quality to be sure, but not one unique to Mr. Kaye.


Those arent specific to Mr. Kaye, but i always felt that what kept AGD going all those years was both the quality AND ingenuity of the products. From the 6-pack, constant air, and HPA to the unique (for the time) valve system, LVL 10 and so on. I always felt that pushing the limits as far as design and tech is what AGD really was all about. In the early years at least

[LK-13]

and who says that Tom Kaye wont become interested again if new blood were to be transfused into AGD?

anyone with the heart to be willing to put the cash into the company will know that TK's blessing will keep the existing customers coming back, and new blood, with new ideas (and money) is really all the old girl needs.

as i said, if i were to win it big, yes, absolutely I would enter into talks with AGD and the resurrection would begin.

but I'm not holding my breath.

so I'm building guns, most of them based on the Mag platform.
who knows maybe something I'm up to might catch on........
and promptly get patented by the Gardners..... :rolleyes:

can someone please shoot those guys, with something more potent than PAINTBALLS.

[Stealthgerbil]

i think that as long as valves are being made, automags will survive. what AGD really needs to do is just allow anyone to make parts for automags. that way, you could either buy the valve from AGD and go buy an aftermarket body, rail, pneumatic grip frame, and barrel. Or someone could start a company that buys the valves from AGD and uses aftermarket parts to build them.

I could easily see a pneumag making a comeback. Its just that there really isn't a central place to buy a prebuilt, setup pneumag. One could easily generate interest for mags by selling prebuilt karta and tac-1 pneumags on PBnation or PBreview. Its just that when someone goes to the website and sees the cheapest mag being around $300, it turns them off, especially when they see that its just a mechanical marker. Pneumags are incredibly fast and a lot of people would be interested in one, because they are durable and they dont use batteries.

ANother part of the market which mags would be great is for milsim and scenario game lovers. However there is a lack of milsim parts for the tac1. It really needs nice looking gasthrough magazine (or a fake magazine that slips over a regulator) and a good stock. Maybe even a faux m16 barrel shroud.

However we know that AGD isn't going to make these parts. It would be up to a 3rd party vendor to do it. That said, the rewards could be great but no one has the balls to attempt it.

[LegumeOfTerror]

i always though they should extend the back of the Tac One bodies and thread them for AR-15 buffer tubes so you could attach actual rifle stocks to it. the problem is then you would block the reg and you cant change the velocity with an allen key unless they cut a slot in the bottom or something.

[Stealthgerbil]

i always though they should extend the back of the Tac One bodies and thread them for AR-15 buffer tubes so you could attach actual rifle stocks to it. the problem is then you would block the reg and you cant change the velocity with an allen key unless they cut a slot in the bottom or something.
this could be solved by add a wheel like dial that goes into the back of the valve and sits between the valve and the stock, ideally allowing one to turn the dial to change the pressure.

Alternatively you could always have the stock mount over the rails and the back of the tac-1 body. It would pretty much slide over the back and then have additional rails on the stock so if you want to use it you could. It would widen the body a little though. The rails over rails would be a little redundant though but that would allow you to set your pressure and then slide the stock on and tighten it.

[azza]

Wow its been a long time since Ive made a post... But anywho.....

IMO here are some things that AGD could do to reinvent themselves and get back market share would be:
-Single piece bodies. IE: body and rail in a single piece, not 2.
-Minimize hosing, maybe even go the way of the Invert Mini and use internal airways through the grip.
-Price point, 'nuff said about that.
-Look into alternative body materials/grades. Seeing as its possible to buy delrin 'cocker bodies. Related to price point and could then be used to differentiate between lower end and higher end markers.
-A new non "sear tripper" based e-mag which uses easily replaceable and cheap batteries.
-Get markers into the hands of sponsored scenario or tourney teams.
-Affordable "dress up" kits to make mags more appealing in the scenario market

Or failing all that, keep doing what they are doing now and start making accessories/upgrades for non AGD markers.

Cheers
Azza

[ThePixelGuru]

E-X mags are less effecient, more expensive, and no more reliable than modern electros, on top of that they use a propeitary battery system and have little to no aftermarket support.

Please enlighten me on their fuctional superiority to modern markers. :p
Efficiency might matter if you didn't have all-day air at pretty much every field. Regardless, most of that comes from not shooting as deep into the tank as most other markers, something which can be minimized by using a 4500psi tank rather than a 3000psi.

That proprietary battery is probably one of the best batteries in all of paintball. Besides, I'd rather have one proprietary battery that I can recharge and will last me days of play than drop a fortune on 9v batteries. But yeah, I think that maybe a few rechargeable AA batteries in a more conventional-looking foregrip would be an improvement if we were redesigning the thing (which is what this thread is about).

Aftermarket support? Kicks the crap out of pretty much any out-of-production marker in terms of aftermarket support. AGD still techs them, and there are a ton of people on these forums still making parts and servicing these markers. That's not even a function of the marker, though, that's a function of the market.

How can you claim it's no more reliable? I'd be willing to bet that percentage-wise there are a hell of a lot more Emags still working than there are, say, Shockers from the same time period. Besides, if you have a problem with the electronics you can switch the marker into mechanical mode and keep going. Name another marker that does that.

Keep in mind the HES trigger so that the system's actually closed. Less crap in your trigger frame = fewer problems. I think the only other marker to do this is the Mini that's storming the paintball market these days. Hmm, what did they base the design of that marker on? :rolleyes:

As far as cost goes, some people are actually willing to pay for quality rather than the latest flavor of the month. Take the price of pretty much any marker and divide by the years of service you'll get out of it, and suddenly the Emag becomes a great value.

And to top it all off, they come stock with the fastest valve system in paintball. No other valve will even come close without severe shootdown. Zak Vetter videos, anyone? What other marker can do that?

Come to think of it, why are you even here if you think so little of the 'mag? Go troll somewhere else, please.

[ikfube]

This Punk Cat talk very much!

I think the answer to this thread already been answered with the Invert Mini. Has everything the electronic mag does plus more for less monies.

[tech-chan]

This Punk Cat talk very much!

I think the answer to this thread already been answered with the Invert Mini. Has everything the electronic mag does plus more for less monies.


But can you beat an invert mini against a tree several times and play with no adverse affects?

[punkncat]

This Punk Cat talk very much!

????? Do I know you? I have to wonder what would make you say such a thing, as it seems a bit deragatory. Am I missing some wonderful insight, from a guy with less than 10 posts, and a 30 word reply? I am pretty sure I didn't...


I think the answer to this thread already been answered with the Invert Mini. Has everything the electronic mag does plus more for less monies.

The Invert, while reminicent of the Emag with the modular foregrip, is not hard to consider a "replacement" of sorts. I personally purchased one because of the similarities. But put one in your hand and use it and you see that just a very slight visible likeness is just about where that ends.
The Mini is a decent little performer, and a great price, but to go so far as to say it replaces the emag is a great leap. I have understood that one of the designers of the Mini was the same guy that helped with the design of the Emag. However the reasons for the similarities are completly different. The Emag needed the big foregrip for the large battery pack. The Mini uses it to hold the electronics. One, and obviously, due to the internal air routing through the grip frame. I speculate that there are other reasons for the setup, but at the expense of looking really stupid putting forth my guesstimation on the subject I will leave it to myself.

[BigEvil]

How about a new emag frame, that is similar in function to the old one, but, with better ergonomics, and can run off of a 9v?

[snoopay700]

How about a new emag frame, that is similar in function to the old one, but, with better ergonomics, and can run off of a 9v?
That would probably eat 9vs like candy, if it ran off a 9v you would need it to have a much smaller solenoid, and thus it can't operate like the old one. Then again i could be wrong, but i would think if you had a capacitor that could hold enough charge to fire the marker it would eat batteries like crazy.

[BigEvil]

That would probably eat 9vs like candy, if it ran off a 9v you would need it to have a much smaller solenoid, and thus it can't operate like the old one. Then again i could be wrong, but i would think if you had a capacitor that could hold enough charge to fire the marker it would eat batteries like crazy.



:ninja:


I have a very fertile imagination. Sometimes I even use it for things other than abusing Rudz

[68magOwner]

Efficiency might matter if you didn't have all-day air at pretty much every field.
Effieiency also matters when you are trying to get the most effective setup possible for what your doing. I know plenty of players who would like to be able to have the weight and feel of a 45/45, but, still be able to shoot the 6,7, or 8 pods they carry onto the field for a game.


That proprietary battery is probably one of the best batteries in all of paintball. Besides, I'd rather have one proprietary battery that I can recharge and will last me days of play than drop a fortune on 9v batteries.
If the cost of 9 volts are really getting to you, use rechargables. The emag battery is larger and heavier than a battery for a paintball marker should be.


Aftermarket support? Kicks the crap out of pretty much any out-of-production marker in terms of aftermarket support. AGD still techs them, and there are a ton of people on these forums still making parts and servicing these markers. That's not even a function of the marker, though, that's a function of the market.
Sure you can buy aftermarket parts for your mags, keep them up and running fine. But at the same time, if you own a shocker, dm, ego, ect, you can walk up the vendor at any national event and have that marker repaired on the spot for free. Its a pretty nice thing to be able to do. I had a new noid and all new orings put in my dm6 last event just for kicks without DYE ever complaining or asking for money.


How can you claim it's no more reliable? I'd be willing to bet that percentage-wise there are a hell of a lot more Emags still working than there are, say, Shockers from the same time period. Besides, if you have a problem with the electronics you can switch the marker into mechanical mode and keep going. Name another marker that does that.
Because its just not. I own a mag, I have owned several mags. They are outstanding markers. But, no more reliable than any other marker I have owned and properly maintained. As far as being able to flip into mechanical mode, thats fun, but, super practical? Not really. Beyond that, I cant remember any time ever where the electronic components of any of my markers kept me from being able to use it.


Keep in mind the HES trigger so that the system's actually closed. Less crap in your trigger frame = fewer problems.
If you really think the HES trigger system is a more problem free system than a standard microswitch, you have another thing comming. It just isnt. Plain and simple.


As far as cost goes, some people are actually willing to pay for quality rather than the latest flavor of the month. Take the price of pretty much any marker and divide by the years of service you'll get out of it, and suddenly the Emag becomes a great value.
I honestly have yet to encounter low quality crap from any of the high end markers out today.


And to top it all off, they come stock with the fastest valve system in paintball. No other valve will even come close without severe shootdown. Zak Vetter videos, anyone? What other marker can do that?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ecn4637uTmc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZfeoCESktVE&feature=related

so, mags are no longer untouchable, and these markers dont need a scuba tank to shoot that fast......


Come to think of it, why are you even here if you think so little of the 'mag? Go troll somewhere else, please.
To say that the mag is not the end all be all of modern paintball markers is not to diminish what it is. Its just to point out that realistically, automags are not as light, efficient or practical to use at a national level of competition as other markers that are readily available now a days.

[Hilltop Customs]

That would probably eat 9vs like candy, if it ran off a 9v you would need it to have a much smaller solenoid, and thus it can't operate like the old one. Then again i could be wrong, but i would think if you had a capacitor that could hold enough charge to fire the marker it would eat batteries like crazy.

ult with standard sized rt on/off "head".....would give a ULT trigger pull weight, with the same strong RT effect. This would be a no-go on standard markers because it would be basically full auto because of the huge rt effect compared to the relative light pull.......but when used on an e-mag it would allow for a much smaller noid, smaller cap, smaller battery. I'd imagine AGD considered this, but then the whole electronic gun fiasco happened.

[snoopay700]

ult with standard sized rt on/off "head".....would give a ULT trigger pull weight, with the same strong RT effect. This would be a no-go on standard markers because it would be basically full auto because of the huge rt effect compared to the relative light pull.......but when used on an e-mag it would allow for a much smaller noid, smaller cap, smaller battery. I'd imagine AGD considered this, but then the whole electronic gun fiasco happened.
*whap!* Ugh, i completely forgot about the ULT, that would definitely make it possible. I had a sneaking suspicion i was wrong but i couldn't place my finger on why exactly, thanks for pointing that out to me.

However, now i want to get an emag and try to make it run off a 9v :ninja:

Edit: Also, that ego that went 40 bps, that was actually 40 cps i would think since he had to turn the eyes off. Not saying they weren't full cycles, i just doubt that paint was coming out that fast because last i checked electronic hoppers had trouble keeping up unless given a bigger battery. Hey, i could be wrong though, wouldn't be the first time.

[magman007]

I call for a challenge.

If you are able to do so, or have the design equipment, I challenge you to design AGD's next gun.
The marker that would take them out of being old school, to the newest and best of the rugged beat-me-up guns. There is only one rule. You must use an xvalve. Other than that, everything is free play.

I will be posting up my creation soon, and hope to see you all do the same.


you know, I have not posted here for quite some time, nor played paintball for even longer, but this really caught my eye.

In reality, it shouldn't be all that hard. Look what sp did with what ever their new upper class marker marketed under a different company name.

Seriously, you take the x valve, and do with it what everyone else basically did. take the valve and turn it into the body. put it in a pretty body, market it under a different name, and give it a good name. slap a high price tag on it, then release an even more expensive version that isnt that much better, throw it in the hands of a good team, that everyone idolizes.

done.

Better yet, put it into a team that actually has potential, put em in d1 and be done.

[Hilltop Customs]

or we could run around with a big powerful electromagnet and fry everyone's boards :D

[snoopay700]

or we could run around with a big powerful electromagnet and fry everyone's boards :D
Ohh, how about a mech mag that can emit an EMP and make all the electronic guns useless, that way you can run around and pop em as you like, unless you have an emag.

And there are those that say it's mech function is useless. :rolleyes: :rofl:

[68magOwner]

Edit: Also, that ego that went 40 bps, that was actually 40 cps i would think since he had to turn the eyes off. Not saying they weren't full cycles, i just doubt that paint was coming out that fast because last i checked electronic hoppers had trouble keeping up unless given a bigger battery. Hey, i could be wrong though, wouldn't be the first time.

Theres paint comming out, I assure you. You are however right about the loaders struggling to keep up without loarger batteries. Hence the huge battery pack strapped on his "super halo" in order to feed it for that vid. Im pretty sure he turned the eyes ON, not off at the beginning of the vid. Regardless, you would be able to hear dryfires if there were any.

[snoopay700]

Theres paint comming out, I assure you. You are however right about the loaders struggling to keep up without loarger batteries. Hence the huge battery pack strapped on his "super halo" in order to feed it for that vid. Im pretty sure he turned the eyes ON, not off at the beginning of the vid. Regardless, you would be able to hear dryfires if there were any.
Ok, it sounded like the guy said to turn them off, and i guess i missed the huge battery pack.

[PhoenixWolf]

The E-Mag's battery pack could be shrunk significantly if it was designed to work with a ULT instead of a full-strength on/off. The reason it has to be so big is it has to produce enough current to power that chunky solenoid, which in turn has to be so powerful because the gun has a full-pressure on/off. A ULT and an EP trigger could certainly reduce the amount of juice required to fire the gun.

[RavishingEddie]

I call for a challenge.

If you are able to do so, or have the design equipment, I challenge you to design AGD's next gun.
The marker that would take them out of being old school, to the newest and best of the rugged beat-me-up guns. There is only one rule. You must use an xvalve. Other than that, everything is free play.

I will be posting up my creation soon, and hope to see you all do the same.


Tech Chan, I am almost done with my project. It incorporates several innovations that I feel will put AGD on the speedball and scenario market.

[snoopay700]

The E-Mag's battery pack could be shrunk significantly if it was designed to work with a ULT instead of a full-strength on/off. The reason it has to be so big is it has to produce enough current to power that chunky solenoid, which in turn has to be so powerful because the gun has a full-pressure on/off. A ULT and an EP trigger could certainly reduce the amount of juice required to fire the gun.
Yeah, but we wouldn't even need to make it ep, we could have it the same as it is now and run off a 9v.

[GoatBoy]

But can you beat an invert mini against a tree several times and play with no adverse affects?

Methinks you should just concentrate on shooting your opponents during games. I mean, I know it's called "woodsball", but that's taking it a bit far...




Sure you can buy aftermarket parts for your mags, keep them up and running fine. But at the same time, if you own a shocker, dm, ego, ect, you can walk up the vendor at any national event and have that marker repaired on the spot for free. Its a pretty nice thing to be able to do. I had a new noid and all new orings put in my dm6 last event just for kicks without DYE ever complaining or asking for money.

Wait a second. Who do you think actually paid for those solenoids and o-rings?

And uhm... the fact that you replaced them "just for kicks" tends to beg the question. Why exactly would you replace them if they were working just fine...


Because its just not. I own a mag, I have owned several mags. They are outstanding markers. But, no more reliable than any other marker I have owned and properly maintained. As far as being able to flip into mechanical mode, thats fun, but, super practical? Not really. Beyond that, I cant remember any time ever where the electronic components of any of my markers kept me from being able to use it.

"...than any other marker I have owned and properly maintained."

Yes. Nearly every marker that is fixed and maintained will work. Well duh. That's like saying "60 percent of the time it works every time." Especially if it's the Dye guys building the cost of happily swapping out your parts at an event "for free" into the price of your marker in the first place.

A more interesting point is how complicated said maintenance is. Care and feeding of mags is usually way easier than most other markers. They are just simpler in design and minimize the wear parts as well as touchy lubrication requirements. That is, if you're maintaining them yourself. If all you ever do is go to an event or store and have someone fix your gun up for you, then you'd be hard pressed to know how different maintaining one gun is from another, and how many more parts there are to fail on one vs. another.



If you really think the HES trigger system is a more problem free system than a standard microswitch, you have another thing comming. It just isnt. Plain and simple.

Wait... how would you know? You've apparently never had a problem with either...



so, mags are no longer untouchable, and these markers dont need a scuba tank to shoot that fast......

Has it actually been confirmed that those markers weren't experiencing shootdown?


To say that the mag is not the end all be all of modern paintball markers is not to diminish what it is. Its just to point out that realistically, automags are not as light, efficient or practical to use at a national level of competition as other markers that are readily available now a days.

So... how much less efficient is an automag vs. other markers? I haven't seen much good data regarding this.


I have to agree with you on the battery issue, though. We've got Spyder's and Piranha's running of 9v!