My marker design

[snoopay700]

Well i finally have my own version of solidworks so i can finally start sketching it out and hopefully make a 3d model of it soon. However i'm still trying to tweak the design and decide if i should go with the hollow point bolt or the mag bolt, so if someone could get me the measurements of both i would much appreciate it, because i can't really have my markers here and i want to get a sketch done so i can work out any bugs i think it would have.


Hey, i got a rough trigger frame made for my design, the chunk at the front is so that i have room to put stuff in different places and have the ability to move, the final trigger frame will look much different but this should give you an idea.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y190/rebelsk8r700/markerwithvertframe.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y190/rebelsk8r700/markerwithvertframe2.jpg

[Hilltop Customs]

shoot me a pm w your email, I have the hollowpoint bolt modeled in solidworks.

[snoopay700]

shoot me a pm w your email, I have the hollowpoint bolt modeled in solidworks.
:wow: That's just what i need, now all i need are the dimensions of a level 10 bolt, although i don't know if the anti chop feature will work with my design. Thanks.

[y0da900]

PM me your address too, I have the Slug CAD file from Have Blue's Rats Nest saved with all of the extra goodies in it, but his server is down right now, so I can send it to you. It's an AutoCAD file, but you should be able to open it in solidworks, I think that can handle .dwg files.

[snoopay700]

PM me your address too, I have the Slug CAD file from Have Blue's Rats Nest saved with all of the extra goodies in it, but his server is down right now, so I can send it to you. It's an AutoCAD file, but you should be able to open it in solidworks, I think that can handle .dwg files.
So it should have at least one of the bolts in there? If so that would be awesome, thanks.

[Hilltop Customs]

y0da900 if you dont mind could you send me that file too....I requested it awhile back(in the thread where someone was converting/emailing it), but I never received it. LMK and I'll pm you my email.

[Ruler_Mark]

me 2 plz

[y0da900]

Snoopay and Ruler Mark, it is on its way. Hilltop, PM me your email address and I'll get it to you. If anyone else wants it, just PM me your email and I'll send it out, Gmail stores the file for me so it takes me all of 10 seconds to send to someone else.

[snoopay700]

I looked at it but it doesn't seem to have any designation what the dimensions of the bolt are, maybe it's just because i'm new to that program...

[y0da900]

The bolt isn't dimensioned, but the drawing units are in inches. When it was released, it wasn't intended for the bolt information to be included, at least not officially, or so I've read.

[LK-13]

i want Solid Works, but i have no money! :(

anyone out there able to burn me a copy? :D :D :D

[Hilltop Customs]

I didnt get to look at it much, but at the very bottom of the page there is a yellow outline of the lvl 10 bolt, you should be able to dimension it by clicking into sketch mode then dimensioning everything. There may be an easier way, Ive never really delt with the engineered drawings perspective other than to print a few 3 views out.

[snoopay700]

Hmm, i could try that, i'll let you know how it goes.

[snoopay700]

Well i couldn't figure out a way to scale the bolt, but anyway i've decided that for what i want probably neither of those bolts would work, they're both too long, so i think i'm going to settle on a design similar to the hollow point yet still different. Also, the hollow point model you sent me gave me a bit of an idea how to model stuff in solid works, and so that'll probably help me out in the long run. I still have the problem with no noid really suiting what i need...and i couldn't make it legal if it was mechanical with this design, plus i dunno how it would be on paint...

So many potential problems, ugh.

[snoopay700]

Well i have two main designs in mind, one that would be very difficult to make legal, and the other which would be hard to do because i'm no programmer, i'm a mechanical engineer major. If i can find someone who can show me how to program what i need then i could very well have the smallest design for a marker. The question is, would people accept it though.

Sorry, using this more as a journal for my thoughts throughout my designing this and just posting it in case others would like to read it, can't be all that interesting though.

[Hilltop Customs]

the modeling isnt really too hard, its just not intuitive at first. For something like a the hollowpoint bolt theres a few different ways to make it. On the one I gave you I sketched the diameters then extruded along the length of the bolt. Another option is to sketch a side profile of the bolt including all concentric features, then revolve it around a center line. I could have really made the bolt in a single sketch with all the features since everything on the bolt is concentric....but I didnt think about it at the time.

for something like a body theres many ways you could make it. I started with sketch of all the features that were concentric, then revolved it with the minimum wall thickness, and then extrude the outter surface of the body. On the other hand you could just build a body, then extrude cut the bores out of it also.

sketching should be intuitive.....so make a sketch on the front plane and play around in the features menu....extrude it then create another sketch on one of the extruded surfaces and play around the extruding cuts and revolving cuts and stuff. You will absolutely hate it for awhile.....but after a few weeks/months you should be able to pick up just about anything and have it modeled up in no time.

oh and about that solidworks book I said about, I cant find it now.....might have sold it back. Only book I can find is for Pro E.

[y0da900]

By illegal, what do you mean. I'm guessing using the bolt to shut off the air supply? If you aren't planning on producing these to sell yourself, you most likely don't have much to worry about. And if you did produce them, still probably less so than an unlicensed electro.

[snoopay700]

By illegal, what do you mean. I'm guessing using the bolt to shut off the air supply? If you aren't planning on producing these to sell yourself, you most likely don't have much to worry about. And if you did produce them, still probably less so than an unlicensed electro.
Not so much that, as it wouldn't be tournament legal or legal at fields like the one i ref at because it wouldn't shoot one shot per trigger pull, so far it's the same for if i made it mech or electronic, but with electronic it could be made so you have to have an even number of pulls for it to shoot, so you couldn't one ball, and if you pulled it 15 times it would shoot 14 shots, but it wouldn't be practical really. The other design i have is a really sound design, it's just i need to know how to program boards to do what i want, which i don't know how easy it would be to do.

[snoopay700]

Well i have most of my bolt done in solidworks, mainly from what i figured out on my own, can't figure out how to do a few things though. Anyway it's about 32.5 mm long i believe, so that should help contribute to the size i want to shoot for.

[snoopay700]

Correction, i have all of my bolt done in solidworks, so i'm that much closer to getting it designed. I'm still stuck as to whether i should make it a spool valve or use a spring, the spring would mean the marker would have to be larger...

[snoopay700]

Well i have the whole valve design drawn up and depending on what i decide, i found out that i can make the end of my marker less than 2 inches from the back of the breech, so where the front of the bolt is. Measuring from there it can be about a 16th of an inch short of two inches, and even less if measured from the feedneck. This might change though if i decide to use a spring, but even with a spring i'm fairly certain that it is the shortest design so far, and hopefully one of if not the most efficient shot to shot. I'm pretty excited, i can't wait to get a mock up of it done in solidworks tonight.

[snoopay700]

Well i'm getting it drawn up, and i hope a least some people are reading this. Now then, i've figured out that i need a solenoid that can exert at least .973 pounds of force (if i'm not mistaken, although it might be more if i can't machine that, which i think may be the case, so it might be more like 4 pounds) so i either need to find a solenoid that can exert that or use a 3 way, which i don't want to do because i already have pressure wasted holding the bolt back, and i'm thinking about replacing that with a spring for ease of machining and just to make it a bit more efficient, although it will have to be about half an inch to an inch longer i'm assuming due to the spring. Ugh, so many decisions, not sure what to make, any advice on what you think i should do would be appreciated.

[snoopay700]

Huzzah! I have a mock up of it, and to give you an idea of the size, the hole in the top and the hole in the front are both .68 inches, mainly because i don't know the dimensions of autococker threads (hence my guesstimating the front half) as well as any feednecks. I'm fairly certain this has to be one of the smallest designs conceived, if not the smallest, and i must say i'm happy with it.

EDIT: Doh, forgot the pictures, here they are.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y190/rebelsk8r700/completemarker.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y190/rebelsk8r700/completemarker2.jpg

[Hilltop Customs]

what is the solenoid operating? a 3-way or a mechanical interaction of stopping the bolt(sear)?

I ask because it sounds like you have control of the pressure of the air in front of the bolt, since you said it holds the bolt back. What about just using a pneumatic noid?

[snoopay700]

what is the solenoid operating? a 3-way or a mechanical interaction of stopping the bolt(sear)?

I ask because it sounds like you have control of the pressure of the air in front of the bolt, since you said it holds the bolt back. What about just using a pneumatic noid?
Actually the air in front of the bolt would be rather irrelevant, that's not what i'm worried about, it's firing the actual marker that i'm worried about, and i just need a solenoid to actuate the valve, and i know it will probably range from 1-4 pounds or so of force that i will need. It mainly boils down to which would give me a better battery life, a pancake type solenoid or a pneumatic 3-way solenoid while exerting those pressures on the valve to make it actually cycle the marker.

[Hilltop Customs]

a pneumatic noid would give you better battery life, but at the expense of air being used for operation instead of just battery juice. Id say try to figure out a better idea of the force, 4 would be really high, needing a noid like the e-mag....in this situation Id go with pneumatic. On the other hand for something around 1lb or less Id go with a mechanical noid as using pneumatic in this situation just adds un-needed complexity and expense when a mechanical noid could easily handle the operation. If the force falls between the 2 mentioned you just have to weigh the mechanical noid options to decide upon the best choice.

I'd try and drop the force requirement any way you can and use a mechanical noid, because the cost would be lower and there is no needed air-route to the noid.

[snoopay700]

a pneumatic noid would give you better battery life, but at the expense of air being used for operation instead of just battery juice. Id say try to figure out a better idea of the force, 4 would be really high, needing a noid like the e-mag....in this situation Id go with pneumatic. On the other hand for something around 1lb or less Id go with a mechanical noid as using pneumatic in this situation just adds un-needed complexity and expense when a mechanical noid could easily handle the operation. If the force falls between the 2 mentioned you just have to weigh the mechanical noid options to decide upon the best choice.

I'd try and drop the force requirement any way you can and use a mechanical noid, because the cost would be lower and there is no needed air-route to the noid.
Well that's the thing, it's really hard to do that, unless i lower the operating pressure of the marker which i don't want to do unless absolutely necessary, because i could make it lower pressure than i have it at but i would sacrifice other features and such. As it is now, i'm fairly certain that i would need to have it capable of exerting 4 pounds of pressure, because otherwise i think the parts might fail under rapid fire, unless i can find an o-ring that would work.

[snoopay700]

Well i got the DM3 frame lined up with the rear grip frame screw hole on my marker and this should give you an idea of the size. Looking at this i'm definitely going to have to make my own frame, i'm thinking probably a vert frame or hybrid to make things easier for myself, and i'm definitely going to need a rail or to extend the bottom of the tube and have a gas through trigger frame sort of thing. Also going to have a vert/15* asa right in front of the trigger guard. Also, the feedneck will also probably sit above the trigger, not behind it on my frame, mainly because i find it balances best around there from my experiences with markers.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y190/rebelsk8r700/markerwithframe.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y190/rebelsk8r700/markerwithframe2.jpg

[snoopay700]

Y'know, this thinking about this this seems like it would have been the next logical jump if AGD was to make another marker. I mainly have it designed in the wacky way i do to be sure i'm not infringing on anything, i'll have to check that and see.

[paintball72]

so do you have any idea on the efficency of this marker or how much you will charge if you make any to sell. :D

[snoopay700]

so do you have any idea on the efficency of this marker or how much you will charge if you make any to sell. :D
Well i need to email tom with a cross section of my design (he's one of two people that will probably see this design until i get a patent, if i can) so if everything checks out with that and i can use my original design rather than this weird valve i have drawn up i should be able to use a pancake noid to trip it and then i'll use a spring to reset the bolt, so i'm hoping it should have one of the best shot to shot consistencies on the market, although it won't be able to shoot as deep into the tank (i have an idea to make it so it could but people wouldn't like it).

As for how much i would charge, it depends on if i can use my school's machinery or need to wait until i can outsource it or buy my own mini lathe and mill, and it also depends upon the price of the materials and electronics that i would need to make it, plus i would need to make a profit ;). I'd hate to project a price and then have to up it, so until i find out how i'm making this valve exactly and then get info on prices i won't make an estimate, but it should be quite a bit under a grand unless prices go insane somewhere, or i would end up having to pay royalties to SP, because last i heard even pancake noid tripped marker manufacturers had to pay royalties.

[snoopay700]

Ugh, this design is killing me. For how i want it to operate, a certain part of the valve is too big, and so i can't use a pancake noid. If i make that piece smaller though, i'm nervous it can break easier and also it will be harder to find an o-ring to fit it. I could go back to my originial design, but that would require a 3-way noid meaning less gas efficiency, but if i can't make that part smaller then it won't matter much because i'll need to have one anyway. I'm thinking i should just draw it up and ask tom what he thinks.

[Hilltop Customs]

what about stepping it? thin part for o-ring sealing, thicker area where the shearing force that causes breaking is applied(guessing its a shearing force)

is the part in question a sear?

[snoopay700]

what about stepping it? thin part for o-ring sealing, thicker area where the shearing force that causes breaking is applied(guessing its a shearing force)

is the part in question a sear?
Well i already have it stepped, that's the thing. I need to get the stepped part down a lot, and with it being the length it is i don't know that it's a great idea to step it that small. I'll pm you with the size i'm talking about.

[snoopay700]

Hey, i got a rough trigger frame made for my design, the chunk at the front is so that i have room to put stuff in different places and have the ability to move, the final trigger frame will look much different but this should give you an idea.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y190/rebelsk8r700/markerwithvertframe.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y190/rebelsk8r700/markerwithvertframe2.jpg

[grEnAlEins]

This looks intriguing. I do not really have anything to add design wise, as I am not an engineer.

I might have missed it, but this is a spooler or a spring and poppet? I saw that you could do either...

From the pictures it seems that it will be quite small. I assume that you will be running mid to high pressure then? How much pressure are you thinking of running? How much does your design hold in common with other FASOR markers? Is that all there is to it in the pic (frame wise)? It seems awfully compact, which is cool. Is a valve going to protrude out the back? Is the "foregrip" going to house various parts or is it a contained to the tube and the trigger frame? Is this gonna be a battery pack type situation?

I cannot even really picture what you are gonna try to do if it is drastically different than a mag and not a a spooler or boltless thing (like those ICE Epics).

When you start prototyping, lmk if you need an alpha or beta tester ;) :p

[snoopay700]

Hmm, well it's a spool valve, sort of in the same way a mag is, yet it isn't, i don't know what kind of valve you'd call this really. It's blow forward, and i was thinking of running 800psi due to something Tom said which made me think my idea could work, which is this marker. The front may be a battery, but most likely a vert ASA will go there. The valve will end up having to be a little bit longer since i want to use a spring rather than air to return the bolt, but otherwise that's the basic idea of the marker.
Oh yeah, from the back of the valve to the front of the protusion thing on the bottom is about 12.5 cm long.

[snoopay700]

Well after pretty much putting this thing on the back burner and rethinking some things (like the operating pressure for one, i may change that out of pure necessity but that may screw up the dimensions) but i've gotten a few more ideas and one of them is how to implement a level 10 like system but it would also rely on electronics but it would make it so that eyes aren't needed i think so you never have to worry about dirty eyes. Anyway i need the diameter of the pin hole in the level 10 bolt if anyone has that dimension i'd really appreciate having it.

Also this weekend i may work on trying to get the trigger frame actually drawn up instead of the mock up i've currently got. I'm still trying to figure out how i'm going to configure this thing and i was having some trouble in solidworks getting the trigger frame to look how i wanted last time but i'll give it another go, so yeah just letting you know this didn't die, and i don't know that it'll ever be put into production but if i get it made and it's everything i'm hoping for i'll be thrilled.

Oh yeah, and this is no longer simply trying to get the smallest marker, i mean that's still one of my goals but i have a few more ambitious goals for this marker too, i just hope i can implement them and get them to work.

[y0da900]

The rearmost portion of the bolt is .172", the bleed hole out the side is .024".

Per the same AGD CAD file I sent you before that you couldn't get dimensions from.

Let me know if you want any more, I can pull them quickly from there.

[snoopay700]

The rearmost portion of the bolt is .172", the bleed hole out the side is .024".

Per the same AGD CAD file I sent you before that you couldn't get dimensions from.

Let me know if you want any more, I can pull them quickly from there.
Awesome, thanks, i just needed the bleed hole, mainly because i don't want to make it too big. Also if there's any way that you can find the diameter of the internal passage to the on off, the one that brings air from the reg to the on/off in either an rt valve or a classic valve that would help me out, just so i have an idea of how small the passages can be without causing shootdown because i really have nothing to go off of and if i have to make them substantially bigger i'll need to remake the whole thing if i found out from a prototype. So you can't use that file, but if you have one that you could check that would work, otherwise i can check when i go home next weekend if i can find a set of calipers. Other than that the dimensions should be fine in the valve, i just have to research some other things to see if i can put the concept in.

[y0da900]

Sorry, the CAD file doesn't have any valve information in it, just the body, bolt, and frame.

Typically, if the post valve flow path has a cross sectional area greater than or equal to that of a .3" diameter hole, it should have adequate flow on that end. As far as flow filling a dump chamber - depends a lot on pressure, dump chamber size, and firing rate. Use an Ion for instance, those have the dump chamber filled with a 5/32" (4mm) microline, and that feeds the chamber plenty quickly.

[snoopay700]

Sorry, the CAD file doesn't have any valve information in it, just the body, bolt, and frame.

Typically, if the post valve flow path has a cross sectional area greater than or equal to that of a .3" diameter hole, it should have adequate flow on that end. As far as flow filling a dump chamber - depends a lot on pressure, dump chamber size, and firing rate. Use an Ion for instance, those have the dump chamber filled with a 5/32" (4mm) microline, and that feeds the chamber plenty quickly.
Ok, thanks, that'll help me figure it out i think.

[Dend78]

Ok, thanks, that'll help me figure it out i think.

snoop sending you a PM on this

[snoopay700]

Haha, i was WAY off on the weight, it counted the dm6 frame (which was hidden) in there too. With the current setup i have it's at .62 pounds, so it's a lot lighter than i thought. Anyway i drew up a new trigger frame tonight (instead of working on my physics lab ) so i have goodies to show you, sort of. I need to tweak it a bit once i figure out how everything in it will be mounted, and also so it can accept angel grips, although i may switch to a 45 frame, we'll see. I'm getting really excited about this thing again.

Anyway, time for the pictures:
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y190/rebelsk8r700/markerwithnewframe.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y190/rebelsk8r700/markerwithnewframe2.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y190/rebelsk8r700/markerwithnewframe3.jpg

I need to mess with the fillets inside the frame because i didn't pay too much attention to the order and it screwed me up but other than that this is mainly what i want, probably either going to cut down the frame and body or make the asa connected to the front of the frame so that it's more of a slant, but i don't really like how that looks. Anyway let me know what you think.
I think i gotta cut the asa down on that too...

[Dend78]

nice looking good, that first pic makes the cuts for the ASA look weird :tard: but its really coming along nicely.

***EDIT*** revised above gotta read the whole post before asking questions :rofl:

[snoopay700]

nice looking good, that first pic makes the cuts for the ASA look weird :tard: but its really coming along nicely.

***EDIT*** revised above gotta read the whole post before asking questions :rofl:
Haha, thanks, yeah i need to shorten the frame and body methinks, i think that would make the asa look better, or make it attached to the front of the frame, i'll make that and see what people think, i think it's rather ugly.

[Dend78]

personally i would say hack the front of the umm errr uhh frame/rail and body just in front of the ASA so that the ASA is the very first thing you touch on the front maybe a slight lil bit pas it but very little maybe for some fillets for overall looks and appeal but thats about it

[snoopay700]

personally i would say hack the front of the umm errr uhh frame/rail and body just in front of the ASA so that the ASA is the very first thing you touch on the front maybe a slight lil bit pas it but very little maybe for some fillets for overall looks and appeal but thats about it
Yeah, that's what i was thinking after i saw it on the finished gun, i'll make a mock up of both. The actual trigger guard is the main part i don't really like, might tweak that, and i want to make the actual frame a bit skinnier i think. I dunno at this point it's all about aesthetics until i can actually build the thing and see how good my ideas turn out, that and how to mount everything in the frame.

[Dend78]

yeah the guard almost needs to look like its own piece, maybe you could do something like and Intelli type or RPG type guard

[snoopay700]

yeah the guard almost needs to look like its own piece, maybe you could do something like and Intelli type or RPG type guard
I was thinking that but those are too small and i'll probably make something more like the old BKO guards where it slants down then up, i just didn't want to mess with the angles when i initially made this frame. I also have to work out a few things like air passages and such.

[snoopay700]

Well i did some work on the frame, and i really wish that fillets didn't make it hard to put other fillets in. Let me know what you think about this one, if you think that the slanted top on the asa looked better i'll try to make that work. I'm fairly pleased with how it looks now, seeing as the trigger frame is where most of the aesthetics will come from most likely.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y190/rebelsk8r700/markerwithnewframe4.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y190/rebelsk8r700/markerwithnewframe5.jpg

And now something that's never before been seen, the right side of the gun!
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y190/rebelsk8r700/markerwithnewframe6.jpg

Oh and like this it weighs .60 pounds, but the asa isn't actually hollowed out to be an asa yet, and i'm probably going to have to add a bit of meat to the back of the gun i think just to ensure everything will work.

[Dend78]

what if you slide the asa and front fo the trigger guard back? cause you got what looks to be miles of room in that trigger guard, kinda looks like you could put 3 triggers in there, this front trigger trips the second trigger which trips the 3 trigger which trips the micro switch :rofl:

[snoopay700]

what if you slide the asa and front fo the trigger guard back? cause you got what looks to be miles of room in that trigger guard, kinda looks like you could put 3 triggers in there, this front trigger trips the second trigger which trips the 3 trigger which trips the micro switch :rofl:
Haha yeah, the trigger guard is huge, and i was thinking about making it smaller which would make it so i wouldn't have to have the barrel going over anything most likely, which i like. The entire length of the marker (which i forgot to mention) from the back of the body to the very front of the body is about 5 inches though, just so you have an idea of the size of the gun and thus you can get an idea of the size of the trigger guard, but it is still needlessly huge haha.

[Dend78]

Haha yeah, the trigger guard is huge, and i was thinking about making it smaller which would make it so i wouldn't have to have the barrel going over anything most likely, which i like. The entire length of the marker (which i forgot to mention) from the back of the body to the very front of the body is about 5 inches though, just so you have an idea of the size of the gun and thus you can get an idea of the size of the trigger guard, but it is still needlessly huge haha.


yeah i got to thinking about that when you pull it in its gonna be hella short a mini will seem big im comparison :rofl:

[snoopay700]

yeah i got to thinking about that when you pull it in its gonna be hella short a mini will seem big im comparison :rofl:
Yeah, i wasn't kidding when i said i was going for smallest size lol. Oh yeah, and thid gun will hopefully be schizophrenic.

[Dend78]

your pm box is full


im married with 3 and one on the way i dont need a crazy tempermental paintball gun :rofl:

[snoopay700]

your pm box is full


im married with 3 and one on the way i dont need a crazy tempermental paintball gun :rofl:
Thanks, it's empty now. And what i meant was that it will talk to itself haha. :rofl:

[Dend78]

where are you gonna mount the boobs at :rofl: :spit_take

[grEnAlEins]

where are you gonna mount the boobs at :rofl: :spit_take
Make the reg sit in shell that doubles as a figurehead! I've always wanted a marker for International Talk Like a Pirate Day. Would images of an anatomically correct figurehead get snoop banned though? That is the question.

the only problem is that it would double the size of the marker--triple it maybe :D

[Dend78]

good question might need to photoshop em a bit :D

[snoopay700]

Make the reg sit in shell that doubles as a figurehead! I've always wanted a marker for International Talk Like a Pirate Day. Would images of an anatomically correct figurehead get snoop banned though? That is the question.

the only problem is that it would double the size of the marker--triple it maybe :D
Most likely yes, but if i omit nipples it should be fine haha. I can't really draw that up though, i'm not that proficient in solidworks, but it would be awesome to have that for talk like a pirate day, sort of expensive for one day of use though...

[grEnAlEins]

Most likely yes, but if i omit nipples it should be fine haha. I can't really draw that up though, i'm not that proficient in solidworks, but it would be awesome to have that for talk like a pirate day, sort of expensive for one day of use though...
Omitting the nipples would be like making a bicycle without wheals ;) You could always fall back on MSPaint :rofl: And if you did a reg sleeve it would not be all that expensive to do I don't think. Think about it :argh:

[snoopay700]

Omitting the nipples would be like making a bicycle without wheals ;) You could always fall back on MSPaint :rofl: And if you did a reg sleeve it would not be all that expensive to do I don't think. Think about it :argh:
Oh, hmm a reg sleeve, that could work.....

I could look into it if i ever get this thing actually made. :rofl: Luckily since there isn't much material on it, the most expensive thing would be the board since i may need to have one custom made, but i may be able to figure out how to write a program for it in MATLAB, i'm getting better at it and i could probably find a way to get it put onto a board. But then again, i'm a mechanical engineer, not a programmer, so programming what i need may be over my head.

[Miltonyz]

What about this?

http://www.warpig.com/paintball/technical/electronics/basic_stamp/

That article is pretty darn old but it seems to be a easy language to learn.

[snoopay700]

What about this?

http://www.warpig.com/paintball/technical/electronics/basic_stamp/

That article is pretty darn old but it seems to be a easy language to learn.
Well i'm writing a report right now but that might just be what i need, thanks. I don't know if it will have what i need but if it does it should be an easy alternative to a custom board.

[grEnAlEins]

Well i'm writing a report right now but that might just be what i need, thanks. I don't know if it will have what i need but if it does it should be an easy alternative to a custom board.
You could always go "it makes a good project board" route too though. BigEvil used an NME board for his EP-Mag. I am using a DM4/5/C Board in my EP-Mag project. There are plenty of options that are likely workable.

[snoopay700]

You could always go "it makes a good project board" route too though. BigEvil used an NME board for his EP-Mag. I am using a DM4/5/C Board in my EP-Mag project. There are plenty of options that are likely workable.
Well the main thing i'm worried about is the whole talking to itself thing, i need a board that will allow that. I don't know if the boards that are available will allow that sort of thing, even with modification.

[snoopay700]

Well after 4 months of hiatus on this whole project of mine i finally thought about it some more and i thought of a way to make it simpler and probably more gas efficient too. As for the frame, no progress on that, but i'm probably going to draw up a hybrid frame for it instead, as well as shorten the trigger guard up a bit and make it go down more, but we'll see on that. But yeah, i'm excited on that new part, because i was wondering and wondering where i was going to find the right size o-ring for what i needed then i realized a new way i could do it, i just have to do it a bit backward, or put the new part in a different place.

I also need to figure out if i want a spring to reset the bolt or not, if anyone has anything to say about that i would appreciate input, but if i do have a spring in there then i can guarantee 100% of the air would be going down the barrel then.

I also don't know if the passages are big enough, i may need to make it an inch longer to allow for all that good stuff, and i'm hoping that the design will be an efficient one, i'd have to test two different back ends for that though. Internally it's not really changing all that much though, just a few revisions, but i still don't feel comfortable yet with putting that out on the internet. I'm hoping that this school year or next summer i can work out the exact dimensions for the pressures involved (something i haven't paid too much attention to yet because i'm still focusing on the operation as that's the most important part, calculating the pressures will take far less time by comparison) and then get a prototype made. I really wish i could say i was closer to a prototype seeing as i've had this basic idea for close to 2, maybe even 3 years now, but with no job this summer really, i'm afraid i'm not.

I'm still not sure how accepting people will be of such a small gun on the market... :(

[snoopay700]

I think i fixed all of my design problems with one fell swoop, changing the valve design. It also makes for a smaller valve i think and i can use some existing parts, but it will also free up a lot of space to make it sexier. So from the bolt on the whole gun is the same, but behind the bolt is completely different, and a lot simpler. My main problem is i don't know if it can cycle fast enough, should be able to though based on how i'm making the valve. Should also be a lot more efficient too now. However i still have the problem of having to use a microswitch, so i wouldn't be able to produce them as both designs were strictly based on being electronic.

[snoopay700]

Well i don't have the new valve drawn up as i need to get back and measure some but here are some pictures of the new frame, the feedneck will likely be more where a mag's is when it's all finished. Anyway let me know what you think, i spent a few hours today drawing this up today.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y190/rebelsk8r700/newmarker.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y190/rebelsk8r700/newmarker3.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y190/rebelsk8r700/newmarker2.jpg

[Epic_Scotsman]

oooh tiny

[snoopay700]

oooh tiny
Yeah, i think the final projected weight is something like just over half a pound without the barrel. In terms of weight it should put most other markers out there to shame.

[Dend78]

lookin better every time i see it

:cheers:

where do you mount the stock and the dot sight at :rofl:

[snoopay700]

lookin better every time i see it

:cheers:

where do you mount the stock and the dot sight at :rofl:
:rofl:
It's so small that i could honestly probably pull something like the TM7 where it's just a shroud, but i doubt i'd be going that road lol.

This whole thing is the work of about 3-4 years of ideas (plus some inspiration from TK actually), so it's been improved through i don't even know how many designs, that all would have worked but weren't what i wanted. I'm hoping to get the rest of the valve drawn up today since i didn't have homework, and then it's just a matter of figuring out the actual tolerances i would need, then when i get the money a prototype. The prototype won't have the advanced features i was talking about probably because then i could use a normal board, it would just be a proof of concept, so the prototype would need a reg, but the final product i may be able to get away without it. When i have the prototype all drawn up i will post the pictures up here, but if anyone could help me with some dimensions i would appreciate it.

Basically i need to know how long the bolt of a mini is, just the part that enters the breech, so the part that is around .68 inches in diameter. I'm planning on using a return spring instead of air to reset the bolt which will mean a slightly bigger marker but better efficiency and reliability. I figure the fewer air lines to go wrong the better. I'm also planning on borrowing a spring from the classic mag, so if anyone could measure (with calipers) the diameter of the back of the regulator pin that the spring goes onto i would greatly appreciate it.

Anyway off to the solidworks dungeon once again. :D (i both love and hate that program. :rofl: )

[Automagsam]

I have sat with snoop in study halls back before college when he was working on this thing in hs already, and I honestly didn't think it could possibly get better in design, but somehow his crazy mind pulls stuff like this out lol, I love it Paul, def hope you can get it made sometime!

[snoopay700]

I have sat with snoop in study halls back before college when he was working on this thing in hs already, and I honestly didn't think it could possibly get better in design, but somehow his crazy mind pulls stuff like this out lol, I love it Paul, def hope you can get it made sometime!
Haha, well the design i've finally settled upon is drastically different than any of the others. You're still probably the only one i would trust 100% showing it to though, and you can be sure i will show you it next time we hang out.

[snoopay700]

I got some new pictures to show everyone who is following this, now keep in mind that this is an estimation of how big the marker will be as i haven't gotten any of the measurements i need, but it should be fairly close, it may move forward like a centimeter at most, but it's doubtful. The way it is, with the front asa not hollowed out because i'm again waiting to take measurements, this thing weighs in at .66 pounds, so without the barrel and fully loaded i'm expecting it to weigh around a pound.

Now i have a question for everyone reading this as you're the ones that would probably buy one if i were ever able to produce it, would you prefer to have external lines to the back of the valve like a mag or internal in the rail from the front asa? Also would you prefer a vert asa or the one i have on there? Just trying to get an idea about all this, but since it will have to pass by the trigger the airway may cause shootdown, i still am not sure about that, as i have about 6.5 mm of material to mill a passageway for air into. Let me know, but anyway, it's time for pictures:

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y190/rebelsk8r700/newmarker4.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y190/rebelsk8r700/newmarker5.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y190/rebelsk8r700/newmarker6.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y190/rebelsk8r700/newmarker7.jpg

[snoopay700]

Oh yeah i forgot, look at the bottom of the trigger frame, guess what that's for (you can just make it out in the side view picture)

[Automagsam]

Oh yeah i forgot, look at the bottom of the trigger frame, guess what that's for (you can just make it out in the side view picture)
Holy batcrap batman its a hole for the intelliframe dude awesome mag owners shall be ecstatic.

[snoopay700]

Holy batcrap batman its a hole for the intelliframe dude awesome mag owners shall be ecstatic.
No fair, you cheated, i told you :( haha.

[snoopay700]

Hey everyone, i have some news that you all may like. I showed my design to tom last night, still consulting him on it, but he gave me some pointers that i never knew simply because i never owned that type of marker. Therefore if tom gets back to me saying it's ok i'll probably be using level 10 bolts in my marker, i know they flow well, i know they work, so i'm excited because it would be one less thing i'd have to worry about. With the increased pressure i would be running however i don't know if the anti-chop function would work, but my marker is going to have eyes so that shouldn't matter. Anyway let me know what you think.

[Dend78]

Hey everyone, i have some news that you all may like. I showed my design to tom last night, still consulting him on it, but he gave me some pointers that i never knew simply because i never owned that type of marker. Therefore if tom gets back to me saying it's ok i'll probably be using level 10 bolts in my marker, i know they flow well, i know they work, so i'm excited because it would be one less thing i'd have to worry about. With the increased pressure i would be running however i don't know if the anti-chop function would work, but my marker is going to have eyes so that shouldn't matter. Anyway let me know what you think.


sweet!!! once you get the "OK" how far till prototype? you still have the valve to work out correct? or is that pretty well finished?

[snoopay700]

sweet!!! once you get the "OK" how far till prototype? you still have the valve to work out correct? or is that pretty well finished?
The idea should be finished, still consulting tom, he's going to be the first person to see an animation of this thing so he can give me advice and what not. As far as how far it will be till prototype, i need to look at the slug body file i have to get the correct dimensions for the bolt and spring, i'l also going to use that for dimensions for the barrel and angel feedneck since it's what i have on hand. After i get that down i think it's just a matter of figuring out tolerances on a few parts and then making a prototype. That however takes cash, so it might not be until next school year that a prototype gets made, and then i also need to see about a patent and such. Hopefully by at the latest this time next year you'll see a video of it ripping, but no concrete promises just yet haha.

Seeing as i was thinking about a mini type of bolt i think that i would prefer a mag bolt to be in it anyway. Oh yeah i also need to get dimensions on a power tube too... The tip and everything i could get from my mag for the prototype and then if i started producing these i would basically just be buying level 10's straight from AGD, so i don't know how long that would last.

[snoopay700]

Well i finally have an update on this, i've completely overhauled the body to work with a level 10 bolt because tom informed me the bolt i was using (think mini only slightly smaller) has problems with lube and such, so i decided to go with a bolt that i know is just about bulletproof. The bad news is the weight went from .64 pounds to .94 pounds, and that's without a barrel, foregrip, or battery. I'm thinking that when it's all said and done it will be lighter than the mini, but not by a whole lot. I also had to make larger body to accommodate the level 10, and i don't want to modify the bolt so it wound up with more weight. I want to make a completely new trigger frame so it loads above the trigger exactly, anyway i'll post pics later when i'm done.

[snoopay700]

As promised, here are pictures, it's a bit bigger, the OD is around the same as a mag valve i'd say, maybe slightly bigger.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y190/rebelsk8r700/markerassemblynew.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y190/rebelsk8r700/markerassemblynew2.jpg

This next picture shows the other side of the gun, yes that hole is for the air input, i've decided to go that route, but if people really want i could probably work some sort of internal routing out, but it would add weight.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y190/rebelsk8r700/markerassemblynew3.jpg

Oh, what's this, this looks familiar.....
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y190/rebelsk8r700/markerassemblynew4-1.jpg

[Dend78]

ewwww i missed the last couple of updates lookin good man

[snoopay700]

ewwww i missed the last couple of updates lookin good man
Thanks, according to tom my design may not have enough flow to work well enough, but that's something that will have to be seen. As for the bolt spring, i have a feeling i may need to swap out the stock level 10 spring for a lighter one, although then again i may not.

[kcombs9]

Trigger guard looks Huge. other then that I like it :D

[gommie404]

will any of these cad designs ever make it to prodution.
I have been on this site for a very long time and have seen cad designs come and go.

But very few and i mean very few ever get made,, are you going to make this or just talk about it.

[snoopay700]

Trigger guard looks Huge. other then that I like it :D
I agree, i oversized it to be on the safe side. It'll probably be changed if this does ever see production, which i'm doubting a bit right now.

And gommie, i am going to talk about it, for now. I do hope to get a prototype made before too long, but that costs money, and quite a bit of money. So until prototype can be made all i can really do is talk about the design.

[snoopay700]

Holy necro Batman!

I'm planning on finishing up this design and trying to get a prototype made. I just want a proof of concept for myself more than anything, any dreams of having this produced have passed. I am going to do some work this weekend on it and make sure i get everything worked out. Part of me fears the design may be too simplistic to work, but i have to find out. I need to find a place to get calculations for seals, so if anyone has a resource i would appreciate it. Expect to see more pictures on sunday, i might even post pictures of the internals if it looks like this will never come to fruition on my part simply so i can see it made.

[snoopay700]

Well i've added o-rings, a trigger, and made things just work together better. Here is the product of that. I'm hoping i can work some more stuff out soon and then maybe start styling it a bit, who knows.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y190/rebelsk8r700/Markeriso.png
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y190/rebelsk8r700/markerfront.png
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y190/rebelsk8r700/markerleft.png

Finally, a picture of the internals, haven't really changed much, but it's something:
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y190/rebelsk8r700/markerinternal.png

EDIT: One idea i'm toying with is a magnetic return for the trigger, if i do that the trigger will definitely change.