Lvl 10 Bolt Rushing forward and not returning

[warbeak2099]

Alright I'm at my wit's end. I've over shimmed and undershimmed the powertube and no matter how many shims I have in there, the bolt just rushes forwards and vents air when I gas up the gun. There is no wear on the sear or bolt lip. Diagnosis?

[michbich]

Bolt condition?

[BigEvil]

Worn sear?

[michbich]

Right on-off pin lenght?

[ManInBlack]

You installed the bolt spring, right?

[michbich]

You installed the bolt spring, right?
LOL

I just had to say that this one made me laugh.

If that were to happen, you would hear a big clanking noise when the bolt slams against the barrel.

[maniacmechanic]

a stuck on/off ?? isn't the spring supposed to return the bolt ? , front frame screw a hair too long , hits the bolt , lets it go forward , but won't let it return

[MANN]

try a harder spint. lower velocity ?

edit. is it stuck on your detents? unscdrew them to eliminate this

[warbeak2099]

front frame screw a hair too long , hits the bolt , lets it go forward , but won't let it return


EDIT:

Nevermind, that wasn't the problem. It's still doing it and it's bad. As soon as I air up the gun, the bolt rushes forward and vents air. It will not return until I push it back and keep it back with my finger. Again, neither the bolt or sear show signs of wear. I've tried the heaviest spring on it and it still does it. What the hell man?

[michbich]

Did that screw damage the bolt?

Must take a decent amount of wedging force to prevent the spring from doing it's job.

[warbeak2099]

Did that screw damage the bolt?

Must take a decent amount of wedging force to prevent the spring from doing it's job.

I'm telling you, there's no wear on the bolt. I'm really pissed off lol.

The gun has worked flawlessly until yesterday. It just all of a sudden started freaking out. I am tearing my hair out here.

This is the same thing btw, that happened when I tried to put a lvl 7 bolt in my X-Valve.

It has done this on two different Mags with two different sears.

[Coralis]

is this happening in the classic valve that you posted about in another thread?

[warbeak2099]

No this is my X-valve.

[Duck Hunt]

Try sticking a barrel swab down there and see if it returns. Or a stronger bolt spring.

Sean

[michbich]

If you drop in another valve, does it still do the same thing?

If it has done this on 2 different valves with 2 different sears. Was it in 2 different bodies/rails as well?

[gunangel]

sorry to jump in, but same thing is happening to mine. worked fine then suddenly i gas it up, it rushes forward and stays that way. putting a squeegee down the barrel will not let the bolt reset. I was running no shims for a while and that fixed it, then it did the same thing and running two shims fixed it for a while, then it did it again. I tried switching out carriers and all but the same thing is happening. backed out my detents and I'm essentially in the same boat as warbeak.

switching valves fixed the problem but if possible I'd like to save my X...
BTW I'm running a Lvl X and ULT.

I have 3.5k left in my tank and I switched to a harder spring and put in an RT on/off and ran oil down the asa...unfortunately it's 11pm so I'll have to try it tomorrow, but any other recommendations?

[warbeak2099]

If you drop in another valve, does it still do the same thing?

If it has done this on 2 different valves with 2 different sears. Was it in 2 different bodies/rails as well?

I've tried the same valve in two different Mags. One Mag has a classic rail and sear, and the other has an RTP rail and sear.

Sticking a squeegee in front of the bolt does nothing. The bolt simply fights to move forward against the squeegee.

I also tried a stiffer spring.

It seems as though the sear is not catching the bolt. This would mean the bolt is worn since two different sears (in great condition) have failed to catch it. I cannot see any signs of wear on the bolt though. The bolt lip looks immaculate.

Perhaps it is a problem with the ULT. It's as if the ULT isn't pushing down hard enough on the back of the sear to push the front of the sear up to catch the bolt.

[BigEvil]

Try another bolt on that valve and see what it does.

[michbich]

Maybe the bolt is out of tolerance or is not concentric. What happens is you hold down the trigger? Does it reset?

[secretweaponevan]

If you hold the trigger and the bolt stays in a forward position and air is leaking out, you have an on/off problem.

[Coralis]

Try pulling the ult apart perhaps the pin snapped, bent or came unscrewed.

[gunangel]

it looks like we have the exact same problem.

pushing against the bolt does pretty much nothing as the bolt continually fights to move forward. (no click of the sear catching etc)

the valve is leaking down the barrel with or without the trigger held. (sound does not change)

pulling the trigger pretty much doesn't seem like it does anything as the valve will continue to leak.

the bolt seems to be without wear and tear. then again I don't have another Lvl 10 bolt to try this against.

checked the ULT it looks perfectly fine...although I have 10 shims in it...but then again it worked with this setup a short while ago so that shouldn't be the problem.

the thing is at least for me it worked, then it didn't, then it did, then it didn't again, so the bolt being out of round seems strange. I'll try eliminating the ULT and see how that goes.

I'm really in for more ideas!

[secretweaponevan]

pulling the trigger pretty much doesn't seem like it does anything as the valve will continue to leak.

You have a leak in your on/off. Start there.

I'd remove most of those shims and start over.

[secretweaponevan]

Alright I'm at my wit's end. I've over shimmed and undershimmed the powertube and no matter how many shims I have in there, the bolt just rushes forwards and vents air when I gas up the gun. There is no wear on the sear or bolt lip. Diagnosis?

Your sear isn't engaging the bolt.
This could be because:
your on/off pin won't go up for some reason
your on/off has a leaky o-ring (test for this by holding the trigger when you gas up)
your sear is cracked near the pivot hole
your trigger rod is too long
your sear is hung up
you are missing the rail bushing

You should always hold the trigger in when gassing up. Let us know if it leaks with the trigger pulled.

[gunangel]

well it would leak with or without the trigger held down is what i meant. the reason this was so problematic for me is that I feel like I know mags. I run a pneumag so no sear arm etc to worry about, but i did check my sear and all and they all looked fine. for some reason the bolt would stay forward, not allowing the bolt to catch.

but...

i think switching to the rt on/off, replacing the spring, replacing the inner and outer carrier o-ring, and oiling everything might have done the trick. testing was technically inconclusive as the valve ate the rt on/off o-ring O_o (I had to fish it out of the little hole for the on/off pin in the valve swallowed a good 1/8 of the ring)...but it resets when i push it back with my finger now. ran out of air but hopefully that'll help you a bit.

thanks for all the advise so far. one final test to go!

[warbeak2099]

I fixed half of the problem by turning the velocity up. The sear will now catch the bolt, but only when I push the bolt back manually. When I pull the trigger, the bolt still sticks forward and I have to push it back.

[athomas]

I would check to see if the rail bushing is in place as mentioned by secretweaponevan

[warbeak2099]

It is. I am quite sure right now that it's the on/off. I think there's something up with my ULT. I will have to test this after I get new o-rings for my stock RTP on/off.

[secretweaponevan]

I fixed half of the problem by turning the velocity up. The sear will now catch the bolt, but only when I push the bolt back manually. When I pull the trigger, the bolt still sticks forward and I have to push it back.

First, when you hold the trigger in while gassing up, are there no leaks?

Second, how far forward does the bolt stick?
If it is all the way, it is probably an on/off problem.
If it just like 1/4" it is probably a carrier/spacer/shim issue.

[gunangel]

There is a constant leak it goes PSHHHHHHHH when you air it up, when you pull the trigger it is still going PSHHHHHHH when you let go of the trigger it is still going PSHHHHHH.

The bolt seems to be sitting halfway, just enough to put my finger in and reset it, now that it resets. During my fiddling I believe I also turned up the velocity. Strange tho, it worked perfectly fine with the same settings the game before and no o-rings were blown or worn upon inspection. I guess she's just finicky like that. Hopefully I'll know more with another fill.

I really appreciate all the help, and I am so glad someone had the same problem now at least I know my mag isn't the only one behaving badly :p .

[secretweaponevan]

There is a constant leak it goes PSHHHHHHHH when you air it up, when you pull the trigger it is still going PSHHHHHHH when you let go of the trigger it is still going PSHHHHHH.

The bolt seems to be sitting halfway, just enough to put my finger in and reset it, now that it resets. During my fiddling I believe I also turned up the velocity. Strange tho, it worked perfectly fine with the same settings the game before and no o-rings were blown or worn upon inspection. I guess she's just finicky like that. Hopefully I'll know more with another fill.

I really appreciate all the help, and I am so glad someone had the same problem now at least I know my mag isn't the only one behaving badly :p .

gunangel: Your on/off isn't sealing. It is either a leaky/missing o-ring or a sear/on-off pin problem.

warbeak2099: Still waiting to hear from you.

[warbeak2099]

First, when you hold the trigger in while gassing up, are there no leaks?

Second, how far forward does the bolt stick?
If it is all the way, it is probably an on/off problem.
If it just like 1/4" it is probably a carrier/spacer/shim issue.

I can't hold the trigger down, it's a spydermag.

It's just like 1/4" in. I do think it's the ULT.

[warbeak2099]

Fixed it! I just tore down the ULT and played with the tiny black o-ring. I lubed it and made sure it was staying in place, not sliding up and down the pin. Works like a charm now except for the occasional failure of the bolt to reset. If that keeps happening though, I'll just add some shims to the powertube.

Thanks for the help guys. This was beginning to seem like the problem without a cause. You know, the worst and most usual kind of problem.

[secretweaponevan]

Fixed it! I just tore down the ULT and played with the tiny black o-ring. I lubed it and made sure it was staying in place, not sliding up and down the pin. Works like a charm now except for the occasional failure of the bolt to reset. If that keeps happening though, I'll just add some shims to the powertube.

Thanks for the help guys. This was beginning to seem like the problem without a cause. You know, the worst and most usual kind of problem.

Oh, a spydermag. Whenever it acts up, start eliminating the complications and just through an old CF frame on it, then a normal on/off, then LVL 7, etc.. Start to narrow it down.

Glad to hear it's working now.

[gunangel]

I just looked at my little black o-ring and it isn't very black any more. almost grey. hopefully that was why the sear wasn't catching. Yea, the reason I bought the RT-valve was because it came with an RT on/off and a Lvl 7 so I could always work backwards.

Great advice. I guess I have to pay attention to even the smallest things >.<

[warbeak2099]

Oh, a spydermag. Whenever it acts up, start eliminating the complications and just through an old CF frame on it, then a normal on/off, then LVL 7, etc.. Start to narrow it down.

Glad to hear it's working now.

The problem is that my sear was modified by Luke (arm cut off). I think I should get an AM/MM rail, sear, and CF frame that I can just throw a body and valve on when I need to test things though. Shouldn't run more than $50 and I'd practically have another Mag lol.

[secretweaponevan]

The problem is that my sear was modified by Luke (arm cut off). I think I should get an AM/MM rail, sear, and CF frame that I can just throw a body and valve on when I need to test things though. Shouldn't run more than $50 and I'd practically have another Mag lol.

And then you can get a spare valve for it and then... :rofl:

It truly is a sickness. :)

[warbeak2099]

And then you can get a spare valve for it and then... :rofl:

It truly is a sickness. :)

Seriously though I was thinking the same thing when I was posting that lol. One thing I'd love to get is a VF Micromag body and a CF frame.

[athomas]

The little black oring in the on-off area shouldn't cause the problems you were experiencing. When you removed the on-off assembly, I'm guessing that you removed whatever piece of debris that was causing the problem. furhter bolt stick could be a ULT tuning issue, but is most likely a level 10 issue. If it is level 10 related, go to the proper carrier size. Level 10 shims are for tuning how far the bolt needs to move forward before it can reset. If the gun shoots but sticks, then the issue is a carrier that is too tight. In the case of ULT's, there are also possible issues where the ULT opens a tiny bit too soon, which causes the bolt to not reset. In this case, remove a shim from the ULT.

[warbeak2099]

In the case of ULT's, there are also possible issues where the ULT opens a tiny bit too soon, which causes the bolt to not reset. In this case, remove a shim from the ULT.

That I believe may be the problem. I've got quite a bit of shims on there.

[Hilltop Customs]

The problem is that my sear was modified by Luke (arm cut off). I think I should get an AM/MM rail, sear, and CF frame that I can just throw a body and valve on when I need to test things though. Shouldn't run more than $50 and I'd practically have another Mag lol.

you can always assemble the body/rail/valve, and screw it together with some shorter screws(or current ones with spacers) and work the sear by hand. :cheers:

[warbeak2099]

you can always assemble the body/rail/valve, and screw it together with some shorter screws(or current ones with spacers) and work the sear by hand. :cheers:

Ah! Great suggestion.