Was $700 an hour too much?

[Lohman446]

Title says it all... why $695?




REGIONAL NEWS
WaMu wants to hire restructuring officer
Washington Mutual Inc. has asked a federal bankruptcy judge in Delaware for permission to hire a chief restructuring officer to assist with the settling of the company's debts. William Kosturos, managing director of Alvarez & Marsal, a restructuring advisory services firm, will be paid $695 an hour, according to a court filing; previously he served as CRO for Movie Gallery and interim CEO of The Spiegel Group.

Washington Mutual is seeking to retain other Alvarez & Marsal personnel.

[sffudapparel]

It's 1.5 million a year pretax. Gov would take ~30% so the guy would only make about a million a year. Yeah it's a lot but if he can restructure a whole company why not.

Only problem is that the taxpayers would be paying his salary. :shooting: that

[Lohman446]

Its $11.58 a minute....

Maybe corporate salaries have gotten out of hand

[sffudapparel]

Its $11.58 a minute....

Maybe corporate salaries have gotten out of hand



I agree. Man, I would love to take a bathroom break on the clock haha. Can you imagine getting paid 150 bucks to sit on the john! haha


Edit. If only salaries were that low. Do you know what some CEO's make? It's insane

[MAGnetism]

Way outta control, we need a modern day robin hood

[Hilltop Customs]

From the sound of it, whoever they hire will be more of a consultant than a permanent employee.....but cant really know that for sure though.

[Lohman446]

$11.58 a minute. How about we put some limits to it. Like the highest paid employee should not make more a minute than the lowest does in an hour.

[MAGnetism]

$11.58 a minute. How about we put some limits to it. Like the highest paid employee should not make more a minute than the lowest does in an hour.


Shoot, That would still let Cali CEO's pull down 2 mil. a year.

[behemoth]

I make 12/hr right now.

**** that guy.

[SCpoloRicker]

Huzzah for Class Warfare!!

How dare someone else make more money than I do!! We should totally use the government to enforce what private enterprise pays people!!

/aren't y'all supposedly 'conservative'
//doesn't make seven figures
///makes more than behemoth tho ;)

[Tunaman]

Stay in school...get the degrees. You to can be rich if you try. Dont settle for making peanuts and hanging out on internet forums like the rest of us. It's right there in front of you. Now go get it. ;)

[Lohman446]

I disagree here. There has to be some personal moral compass.

I cannot come up with the goods or service that I could morally supply that would be worth $700 an hour. I don't know how I could charge that much and sleep at night. Investment income is one thing, ridiculous salary another.

[bryceeden]

I make 12/hr right now.

**** that guy.

Realistically 1.5 million a year isn't that much compared to what alot of people make. Shoot, think about the pro athletes making 30+million a year. I don't do much; alittle CPR here and there, get bled on some, puked on alot, lift fat people all day, climb in over turned cars while they are being cut apart, get exposed to who knows what, deal with panic stricken people, fight with drunks, minor stuff like that. Thankfully I'm paid $9.45 an hour so its all good, seems fair to me I mean come on they can catch a football :rolleyes: .

[MANN]

That is the hourly rate for his buisness. Take half out for taxes, and he only gets 300 an hour.

Most companies use a 3.5 multiplier on time to account for taxes, benefits, & overhead. IE when I was "contracted" my boss got 52.50 an hour & only gave me 15.00. Almost all businesses do that.

[geekwarrior]

yet we don't bat an eye at sports or movie stars salaries. :rolleyes:

your robin hood is on its way, don't worry. The tax plan is to take from the rich and give to the poor...literally. Just don't cry when you bump up to the next tax bracket and pay .40 on the dollar in taxes.

[MoeMag]

Way outta control, we need a modern day robin hood

Ya know... that sounds all good and what not. But out side of Sherwood Forrest that is sadly called communism.

[Hilltop Customs]

Ya know... that sounds all good and what not. But out side of Sherwood Forrest that is sadly called communism.

or if it is done voluntarily, a conscience.

[custar]

To me, the more realistic questions are:

1. Is he worth that, or can someone else do what he can do for less?

2. Will the return for that kind of pay justify the pay?

It reminds me of an old trade school anecdote. A company has a drastic problem with it's <insert key machine here>. The in-house mechanics try valiantly but cannot right the problem. The company calls in a consultant who says he/she can solve the problem, but it will cost $10,000.00. The company is over a barrel but can't figure out any other way to solve the problem. The production process is at a standstill, and customers are angry at the delay. Reluctantly, the company agrees to the pay demand. The consultant comes to the company's premises and <insert mind-blowingly simple repair to the machine, usually inputting a code or flipping the right switch), and, presto, the machine is back up and running. Company execs protest the $10,000.00 is unjustified as the consultant literally spent only five minutes, and the repair was mind-blowingly simple. The consultant points out it took him years/most of his adult life to gain the knowledge of that simple repair, knowledge the in-house mechanics didn't have before the consultant came onto the premises. Also, the company lost far more in revenues by delaying hiring him in favor of giving its much lower paid in-house mechanics time to solve the problem.

custar

[teufelhunden]

695 an hour is a bit of a bargain, methinks. whoever it was did the math, 1.5 mil a year?

it's called offering something that either other people don't or doing something better than other people. that's how you can charge that much. guy is obviously worth it because likely wamu shopped around and that's what the market is looking for.

the bulk of you probably think executives or whatever catchall you want to use fly around and hang out... in reality, a lot of them end up working 3000 hours a year, are constantly under exceptional stress, etc. people earn it, and sorry if you're jealous

/only bills at 90/hour :(

[Lohman446]

I am an executive (granted in a small town). A lot of "solutions" come to me at 2:00 AM in the morning when I am laying in bed. That 3000 hours a year would be an easy year.

And I still think its a ridiculous amount of hourly wage. As I read it it was not hiring the company, it was noting where he had come from. Maybe I read it wrong.

[teufelhunden]

it doesn't read like it, but it makes sense that he would be hiring the company

[questionful]

http://www.youtube.com/profile_play_list?user=machbar

[Hilltop Customs]

http://www.youtube.com/profile_play_list?user=machbar

bookmarked, any hints to whats in the 23 youtube videos? lol.....sorry debate drinking game has me a little tipsy :D


edit: nvm question answered within first 50 seconds of first video....have to watch it tomorrow between classes

[questionful]

It addresses one of the issues that I think epitomizes the problems of capitalism, which every day now are becoming more and more apparent.

Something else to watch that looks at capitalism from a point of view that, due to the abundance and success of propaganda in this country regarding capitalism, is fairly rare as far as I've noticed:

The Power of Nightmares (http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/video1037.htm)

[Hilltop Customs]

I'll be sure to check both your links out in more depth tomorrow.....too busy trying to read a case study right now, but I swear these words seem to be moving around on the pages. :cheers:

[SCpoloRicker]

It addresses one of the issues that I think epitomizes the problems of capitalism, which every day now are becoming more and more apparent.

Something else to watch that looks at capitalism from a point of view that, due to the abundance and success of propaganda in this country regarding capitalism, is fairly rare as far as I've noticed:

The Power of Nightmares (http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/video1037.htm)

I miss my undergrad years...

[sffudapparel]

People should be paid what the market dictates. If you complain about working for 8 dollars an hour at McDonalds then maybe you should consider a different "career." This guy didn't get where he did today by complaining that his job at starbucks isn't paying enough. He probably went to school, got a good education and put in loads of hard work. Why shouldn't he be rewarded for his talents? If both parties agree, why is it any of our business?


And also, the highest paid CEO in 2007 was Larry Ellison of Oracle at $84 million. Take 7 hours a day out for sleep, and that's $13,500 an hour, $225 a minute, $3.75 a second. I'm not complaining about it, because if the company want to pay him that's there problem. It's not a smart business move on their part but who am I to criticise someone who has moved up the ranks to get such an amazing salary? If you were making 100 dollars and hour working your tail off and somebody who made 8 dollars an hour flipping burgers came up to you and said "new law says that you have give me 1/3 of your salary to make things more even" would you be fine with that? There's two sides to everything.


There's no secret to how to get a good paying job. And if you don't like it or don't want to do it, don't come complaining to those who put in everything they can to get there.

[Lohman446]

Again I will ask the question. What exact service do you provide to dictate that kind of wage. I am not discussing return on investment or even stock options. What does one do to justify the money they are taking?

Its funny that Americans just accept high wages like this, but complain about prices of consumer goods and services at the market.

FYI - not making $8 an hour flipping burgers
FYI - I make more than Behemoth too :)

PS College educated


People should be paid what the market dictates. If you complain
about working for 8 dollars an hour at McDonalds then maybe you should consider a different "career." This guy didn't get where he did today by complaining that his job at starbucks isn't paying enough. He probably went to school, got a good education and put in loads of hard work. Why shouldn't he be rewarded for his talents? If both parties agree, why is it any of our business?


And also, the highest paid CEO in 2007 was Larry Ellison of Oracle at $84 million. Take 7 hours a day out for sleep, and that's $13,500 an hour, $225 a minute, $3.75 a second. I'm not complaining about it, because if the company want to pay him that's there problem. It's not a smart business move on their part but who am I to criticise someone who has moved up the ranks to get such an amazing salary? If you were making 100 dollars and hour working your tail off and somebody who made 8 dollars an hour flipping burgers came up to you and said "new law says that you have give me 1/3 of your salary to make things more even" would you be fine with that? There's two sides to everything.


There's no secret to how to get a good paying job. And if you don't like it or don't want to do it, don't come complaining to those who put in everything they can to get there.

[teufelhunden]

This guy is obviously providing corporate restructuring related services, gleaning from the story. He obviously has both experience and expertise in the field. He'll actually likely take an officer's position within the company, making him liable for what he does.

That's what he gets paid for.

[Lohman446]

This guy is obviously providing corporate restructuring related services, gleaning from the story. He obviously has both experience and expertise in the field. He'll actually likely take an officer's position within the company, making him liable for what he does.

That's what he gets paid for.

*IF* liability is related, as in his firm taking it, and there is an actual risk of liability (himself or company) than it becomes a different story.

As I read it that was a simple wage.

At that point a service worth far more than a wage is provided

[sffudapparel]

Again I will ask the question. What exact service do you provide to dictate that kind of wage. I am not discussing return on investment or even stock options. What does one do to justify the money they are taking?

Its funny that Americans just accept high wages like this, but complain about prices of consumer goods and services at the market.

FYI - not making $8 an hour flipping burgers
FYI - I make more than Behemoth too :)

PS College educated

lohman,

Sorry man, I wasn't using the term "you" as in you directly. Don't think I was attacking you or anything :cheers: Using it as a broad term.

As said, he obviously has experience and expertise in restructuring companies.
He should be paid whatever both parties agree on.

I don't know what you do for a job, but If I came up to you and offered you 100 an hour to do the same job for me because you're good at it, I don't think you'd go "well, I can't really justify making that much money. So I'll have to decline"

Also ...

What does one do to justify the money they are taking?


He isn't taking anything. He is working for and earning his salary. He doesn't make this salary by being on welfare

[teufelhunden]

There likely will be; my firm has a client who does similar things with distressed companies. I believe the principals of that firm assume management roles in the company in trouble (one of the guys was actually CEO of Enron for a while to try and turn it around, iirc).

And it's not going to be a wage, that's what his firm is going to bill WaMu/Chase for his services. He won't be taking home $700 hour, obviously, as portions of that go to costs associated with running his firm (it says he's the MD of whatever that restructuring firm is). Knowing the rates the partners at my firm bill for tax/audit services (which are shockingly close to that guy's rate), it is not unreasonably for experienced and professional services.

[Lohman446]

lohman,

Sorry man, I wasn't using the term "you" as in you directly. Don't think I was attacking you or anything :cheers: Using it as a broad term.

As said, he obviously has experience and expertise in restructuring companies.
He should be paid whatever both parties agree on.

I don't know what you do for a job, but If I came up to you and offered you 100 an hour to do the same job for me because you're good at it, I don't think you'd go "well, I can't really justify making that much money. So I'll have to decline"

Also ...


He isn't taking anything. He is working for and earning his salary. He doesn't make this salary by being on welfare

Actually....

We sat down a few weeks ago and considered a labor rate change. A labor rate change would have also caused a salary change. The conversation did not go to the points that we could not do it and keep the business flowing - the fact of the matter is one of our largest competitors just left the area. We decided that we could do it, could maintain the same customer base and work loads doing so, and all take a little more.

We never raised the rate.

This company has always been about providing a service and products to the community at a fair rate while allowing those involved to take a fair wage and living out of it. Since we are the experts in the area it is also our duty to determine what a fair rate is. I think we are actually a touch low right now considering the advancements in technology (and Im still "whining" about the expensive new equipment I bought earlier this year). However, it was in the end, decided that no change was needed.

I have passed jobs offering some increase in pay, but keep in mind I have benefits here long term that they could not meet.


Enron execs are taking record salaries. Its justified by the logic of the take what oyu can get salary argument - they can make it and are showing record profits to jutify it. However, we are paying record gas prices to support it. Consumer prices are, under some level of "hiding" tied to wages, of executives and employees. At some point... everyone has to evaluate what is fair and justify it with something better than the simple fact that they can get it.

:cheers: