Spyders vs. Mags

[drx975]

I remember someone had a quote from Tom, to go to the Spyder forum and ask the president why he thinks his guns are better. Well maybe Tom wasnt being serious, but I did it for pure fun. Straighout asked him why his guns are better. Hehe, we'll see what happens...

I will post anything up here anyone says in reply to that post, just to be funny and to see why all of those spyder owners out there somehow believe their guns are good enough to compete with AGD guns. lol.

[HyperSnyper]

Well,
not saying that Spyders are better then Mags (or any other gun in general), but Team Bad Company did embarass a whole bunch of Angel toting teams at the World Cup. Alot to say about a team that came in 4th in the World with lil Spyders.

-Hyper

[Autotrigger]

Spyder's make a good back-up gun! Oh ya, they make a great door stop too!!

[Butterfingers]

they are cheaper...

[Cha0tic]

ok quit rippin on spyders.....i used to have a spyder SE that was amazing for me. i never had any problems. we like all guns on these forums :)

[X-Plosive]

I just got a spyder compact and an NW on/off. I am trying to figure out how polecat does his triggerjobs. With the stock springs it is down to a bit less than a centimeter. There is ZERO front play and ZERO rear player. It only took me 6 hours yesterday, a 6-32 grub screw, a dremel, a hacksaw, a bloody thumb, a tapping kit, a drill, and part of an allen key:)

[HyperSnyper]

Originally posted by Cha0tic
ok quit rippin on spyders.....i used to have a spyder SE that was amazing for me. i never had any problems. we like all guns on these forums :)

This is very true guys, you may not believe me, but my LP Spyder Java is still very competitive with even my modified Hyper-Micromag.

My LP Spyder Java was my first gun (actually it was a VM-68, then I was outta paintball for 4 years, then came back with a Spyder). It had and still has the following as my GF's gun and backup:

Spyder JAVA
DYE 14" Boomstick
Palmer Bottomline Regulator
Shocktech LPC
32^ Spring Kit
Bored out Valve
Bored out Vertucal Adapter

This setup is pretty nice. Shoots at a steady +/- 6 with HPA at 300 psi operating pressure (Spring setup, medium weakest valve spring, weakest drive spring). With CO2, it still stays around that same range but rapid fire really shows CO2 downfall.

Either way, I feel that whenever I let my friends use it, they dont feel at a great disadvantage, neither do I feel at a greater advantage.

To say that Mags are better than this gun or that gun places you in the same category as the Angel toting people saying "My gun is better then yours cuz mine cost more than yours". Dont get into that routine.

Here are my opinons on pros/cons vs each other:

Pros (Mags):
-Mags look kewl.
-Mags can attain fast rate of fires with hardly no mods done to the gun.
-Mags have a short and crisp triger pull.
-Mags have very little recoil.
-Mags are very quiet.

Cons (Mags):
-Short Stroking Sux.
-Can use CO2 effectively

Pros (Spyders):
-Looks kewl.
-Cheap
-Can attain the same accuracy level as higher end markers
-lighter in weight.
-IMPOSSIBLE to short stroke

Cons (Spyder):
-Louder
-Long *** trigger pull
-DAMN lotsa recoil (even when converted over to LP)

If there is any thing I left out, feel free to add it in.

-Hyper

[Micromag5371]

hyper....there is one thing you forgot....spyders CAN shortstroke. i do it all the time on my spyder. i can do it with every type of paint...but i use bigball and its harder to get chops on bigball, and plus bigball is more accurate. cheaper, also. i dont know about anybody else, but i have shortstroked on my spyder.

[Minimag4me]

it is not mechanically possible to short stroke a spyder

[Autotrigger]

Hey, My back-up gun is a Spyder TL Plus! But I still like Automags better!

[drx975]

Pros (Mags):
-Mags look kewl.
-Mags can attain fast rate of fires with hardly no mods done to the gun.
-Mags have a short and crisp triger pull.
-Mags have very little recoil.
-Mags are very quiet.

Cons (Mags):
-Short Stroking Sux.
-Can use CO2 effectively

Pros (Spyders):
-Looks kewl.
-Cheap
-Can attain the same accuracy level as higher end markers
-lighter in weight.
-IMPOSSIBLE to short stroke

Cons (Spyder):
-Louder
-Long *** trigger pull
-DAMN lotsa recoil (even when converted over to LP)

If there is any thing I left out, feel free to add it in

Well a few things I noticed with the abundant Spyders in my neighborhood. And a few Mag things left out.

Pros with Spyders:
1 - Fast firing, stock. (I got 7 a sec, but I did have to fan trigger)

Cons with Spyders:
1 - Mother of breaking paint (try a Shutter?)
2 - Evil length, too long
3 - Too tall
4 - Accuracy can bad sometimes (fresh paint used, gun cleaned etc)
5 - Its blow-back so there are a lot of moving parts
6 - Off-balanced. I shot my Mag (foregrip too) 3 games, then a spyder, and I was hitting the ground.

Pros with Mags:
1 - Absolute highest cylce rate stock (16 a sec)
2 - Accurate stock (Minimag and up, Autos dont have barrel)
3 - Run c02 good, just like a spyder, but not in bad weather
4 - Very balanced/comfortable feel
5 - One moving part, the bolt.
6 - Can be cleaned on field, under water totally, pressurized.
7 - They are handmade
8 - Trigger rod as opposed to springs

Cons with Mags:
1 - You really need HPA to run this gun well. If you have it, its great though
Seriously can't think of anything else, when comparing to a Spyder.

[LawFox32]

QUOTE "spyders CAN shortstroke."--> Micromag5371


that is absolutely true, my friend has a mostly stock shutter, and it depends on the tensile strength(I guess?) of the shell, cuz when he short-strokes it, it either chops the ball or catches bolt on the ball comin down the feed tube and jams his gun up and he has to recock, which is a major pain if you have ever had to deal w/ rear-cocking on a spyder, take off the barrel, and then knock out the ball.

[drx975]

I dont know if thats entirely true, because Shutters are known to have problems. For one, my friends just shot off unexpectedly and the safety was on. Apparantly something was stuck in the trigger assem. I dont know. Another thing, the Shutter breaks a lot of balls no matter what. My friends have shutters (2) and they both chop one in about 200-300 I think. Shortstroking is impossible with guns like Spyders, Tippmanns, and I would say most other blow-back guns like Spyders/Tipps. The reason is, is that those guns dont have the same kind of valve our Mags have, and since they dont, they dont have that whole on/off deal. Therefore, its impossible to constrict the air passage into the valve, because nothing you do can control it, like pulling the trigger in a Mag would. In a Mag, when you dont release the trigger completely, the on/off doesnt fully open and allow air in, and when you pull the trigger again, it doesnt have the required pressure and causes a huge drop off in velocity. In a blow-back, the only thing you do is release the bolt.

[Cha0tic]

the shutters stock barrel breaks alot of paint. it does not chop, however.

[PBpunk]

i played with a tl plus for at least two years (now playing with a cocker). you CAN chop balls but not from short stroking it. choping balls is from feeding problems and rof. if you shoot to fast the balls arent loading fast enough and a ball is only half way in the breach then you pull the trigger and it gets chopped. it has happened to me many times when i did that and a piece of shell gets jammed in between the bolt and the inside of the breach and the bolt gets jammed and that sucks. but short stroking is not possible. you can not let the trigger back all the way so it does not latch on to the sear but that is different then short stroking.

[BlindSeaman]

Its mostly just feel and quality. A spyder can be made to shoot just as accurate/fast as a mag,(hpa, electro frame, freak) but they still will feel different. As far as chopping, well, the only time I ever chop in my spyder is when I have old paint. A lot of the time when people complain about chopping in "lower" end guns it is because of feeding problems. They may have slightly more kick, but a lot of that can be fixed with a ss barrel just because spyders are so light. Personally I love the way mags feel, I'm small and a mags small so it fits.:) However, I dont see a need to upgrade right now.
The strange thing is I play against angels, mags, and cockers all the time. And very rarely do I feel like i'm at a real disadvantage.

[hitech]

My brother has a spyder and claims you can't short stroke it. I believe I have short stroked his before, but I'll give it a try the next time we go play. If it's possible, I'll do it; I can short stroke anything! ;)

He also said that the stock barrel sucked. Broke paint all the time. With the J&J SS he hasn't had any problems.

[soilent green]

do you know what short stroking is you can't short stroke a spyder because your trigger doesn't affect air release like a mag or cocker a spyder may double fire or not recock but I am almost positive no blowback designs can truly short stroke

[RoadDawg]

I'd have to agree that Spyders aren't that bad of guns. Need some work out of the box but then again a lot of guns do. Only way mine chops is when my Boo-yaah grip is set way to high and the balls can't feed fast enough. That is user error though and I know that. When I find the right setting it works fantastic. When I got my Shutter it was a little shakey at first but then again it was my first gun that I bought with my own hard earned cash. I was just getting into it and it kept me into it by keeping up with cockers. I have a boomi on it to help a lot on my accuracy. Through in a new bolt because the old one was getting scratched by a bur inside and later added the boo-yaah grip to make up for the accuracy with a little more quantity. Not the right way to play but for people getting shot at with Angels and such you have no choice to through more paint. I still use my spyder. Sometimes I think I use it more then my Micromag RT. In my opinion I think Spyders are great.

[covadsucks]

I personally have never seen a Spyder short stroke. I have seen a nasty ball chop. But this is also a Spyder that I had for a year with no chops ever, then I give it to my ex girlfriend to play with and she's shot well over ten cases with no problems. One ball break in the breach was it. It's a nice marker for a newbie, or even someone who just wants a nice low priced marker. I personally like them still. But that's because my mag is chopping or breaking paint like mad.

[TheTramp]

You cannot short stroke a Sypder. Either the trigger releases the sear or it doesn't. That's all the trigger does. Any chopping problems are probably caused by the poor quality PF. I know the PF plug on my spyder was a straight angle. The feed is also sloply welded on and it isn't always at the perfect angle.

With that said, I love my LP Spyder. I pull it out every now and again to gine my Retro a rest.