Research: How to make pb mainstream?

[FreakBaller12]

So I'm doing a research assignment project and I need to look at all the alternative ways to make paintball a similar sport

I'm currently exploring non-paintball sponsorships and don't know where to go from there.
What I need from AO:
personal opinions about to/not to make paintball main stream, how?
Any links to current non paintball sponsorships and professional teams
Thanks guys.

[trevorjk]

ways to make it mainstream.

get rid of cheating
get rid of over shooting
and make new players realize that when your hit, and your gun is up. no one will shoot you. so get off the field so regulars dont get mad

[FreakBaller12]

ways to make it mainstream.

get rid of cheating
get rid of over shooting
and make new players realize that when your hit, and your gun is up. no one will shoot you. so get off the field so regulars dont get mad
my only arguement to cheating is a pbstar interview Dave pegleg price says that there is not nearly as much cheating at the professional level as there is in the lower levels. I can't argue with you because I feel the same way, but I can't argue somebody who's been there

[Ruler_Mark]

get rid of electros. use softer balls

[FreakBaller12]

get rid of electros. use softer balls
there is no way the industry will backdown from making electros. No player will lay down their electronic gun, the only hopes IMO is to create a cap, similar to what psp is doing.
The sport has become to large because of electros to be taken away.

[orrangexiii]

Start a local/state/regional/national league. Somewhat like Little League baseball. You would need to attract the youth of the nation and get parents involved. I guess what I'm trying to say is that we need to look at other 'mainstream' sports and copy their system, which would mean starting young. Organization and uniformed rules and regulations(nation wide),as well as enforcing them, would be key.

just my $.02

[FreakBaller12]

Start a local/state/regional/national league. Somewhat like Little League baseball. You would need to attract the youth of the nation and get parents involved. I guess what I'm trying to say is that we need to look at other 'mainstream' sports and copy their system, which would mean starting young. Organization and uniformed rules and regulations(nation wide),as well as enforcing them, would be key.

just my $.02
so you're saying that with the NXL and the city sponsored teams is on the right track including a farm system similar to the NHL/AHL or MLB /AAA/AA/A system?

do you mind if I quote you in my paper? If you would like you can disclose you're real name or I can use you're s/n

[ajnin]

The next obivous step would be to get the sport into schools. Just like the "little league" idea, if our children are doing it as a organized sport parents will pay attention and attend games.

[DanMan]

It will never become "mainstream"as long as paint is $40-60. Seriously, the group that pb is most appealing to is high school and college guys. The very people who cant really afford the paint on a regular basis.

[Hilltop Customs]

ehhhh, paint prices wouldnt matter nearly as much if everyone wasnt dumping paint through electros. I agree paint prices limit the sport, but thats only because for an inexperienced player to have a chance, they have to have equal firepower.

Dumping paint through a marker is fun, but its simply not affordable for many people.

[snoopay700]

and make new players realize that when your hit, and your gun is up. no one will shoot you. so get off the field so regulars dont get mad
Apparently the guys at the big game didn't get that memo, or at least that's the way it seemed when i got out.

[d4m4don3]

there is no way the industry will backdown from making electros. No player will lay down their electronic gun, the only hopes IMO is to create a cap, similar to what psp is doing.
The sport has become to large because of electros to be taken away.

gee then i guess southern california is different? a lot of regulars have been dropping their semi's for pumps especially when they play on the recball fields

[FreakBaller12]

gee then i guess southern california is different? a lot of regulars have been dropping their semi's for pumps especially when they play on the recball fields
Sorry that wasn't my intention. I didn't mean "no player" I meant no professional player. I'm only concentrating the bulk of my research on the NXL, PSP, and NPPL to get paintball mainstream. I agree that many players are turning back to use pumps and mech guns. However, I feel the only way paintball will become mainstream is through professional leagues such as the NXL. I do agree that not everybody has to play the "professional" style of game. Similar to playing professional baseball or playing stickball or baseball with tennis balls or something similar. Players playing the game, regardless of what game variant, can only help the sport in my opinion.

[Hilltop Customs]

high rate of fire and affordability are mutually exclusive....lower the rate of fire and you might have a chance, but you still have to deal with the fact that its a game about shooting people.

Only way to have a mainstream league that is accessible to a wide range of people is to dramatically drop the rate of fire(or cost of paint but good luck with that). @ 15bps and $60 a case your spending about 50cents a second....people would rather buy lunch than fire a paintball gun for 10 seconds.

[SCpoloRicker]

Something about this topic sounds familiar... :)

/look, it's 1996
//er, it's 1998
///wait, it's 2002
etc.

[trevorjk]

It will never become "mainstream"as long as paint is $40-60. Seriously, the group that pb is most appealing to is high school and college guys. The very people who cant really afford the paint on a regular basis.


really?

40/2000=.02

that is 2cents per paintball. if you take in material and manufacturing and logistics into the equation we are defiently getting cheap(price wise) paint

[orrangexiii]

so you're saying that with the NXL and the city sponsored teams is on the right track including a farm system similar to the NHL/AHL or MLB /AAA/AA/A system?

do you mind if I quote you in my paper? If you would like you can disclose you're real name or I can use you're s/n


Yeah, I think the key is to gain interest at all ages in all parts of our country. My reasons/ideas as to why paintball hasn't gone mainstream is:
A) the lack of spectators, its prettymuch imposible in woodsball and even in speedball being a spectator is not that entertaining, I mean everything just moves so quick that its really hard to see whats going on. For example when a player gets put out you as a spectator may have no clue as to where the kill shot came from. Thats why we play instead of watch. If there was a way to attract a crowd it would be easy to gain non-paintball sponsors.
B)Uniformed Rules, too many want to just play in their little groups shooting 350fps making up their own rules, and thats fine. But when one of them plays in an organized game and finds out there is a velocity cap and rules with refs there to enforce the rules, they can become turned off because its not what they are acustomed to. I know a few guys like this, however I know a few that felt the opposite.
C) Many feel that paintball is dangerous and violent. Dangerous? Maybe, if safety is not a priority. An eyeball has been lost from time to time, as well as hearing. Violent? :shooting: You are shooting at others. So people could argue for ever, but if you've never played you most certainly are at a disadvantage. Though one could argue that at times tempers flare on the field and that may lead to violence but that arguement :cuss: is true in just about any sport.
D)Cost! Markers, masks, air, equiptment, insurance. $ponsors may help keep costs down.


Feel free to quote what ever you'd like, "Orrange Luke" Almas, Helena MT Woodsballer

[halB]

there is no way the industry will backdown from making electros. No player will lay down their electronic gun, the only hopes IMO is to create a cap, similar to what psp is doing.
The sport has become to large because of electros to be taken away.


I already have. Why the hell would I want to use a gun that's going to cost me 10 dollars EACH round, when I can shoot a mechanical that will only cost me about 5 bux a round? I'm much happier having my ROF restricted.

[gunangel]

As easy as it is to say "look I've made the switch, I don't see why others can't" the fact remains most people can not put electros down. Sure you can have them play a round with pump or maybe with a mech marker, but chances are given a choice most people will spring for the newest and latest electrical marker compared to a mechanical one.

To make it more mainstream, something that let's spectators get in on the game (helmet cams) may be something to look into. It would keep down some of the cheating, but of course would cost insane amounts of money to implement. Most spectators who come to watch are players themselves, if more people play, more people would come. To get more people to play, fields and players would have to welcome new comers. In the presence of newer players, educate on strategies, safety, and equipment. Encourage them to get in the game. When playing with them move to shooting with one finger or using a gravity hopper or something to limit your bps. Unfortunately, most times an average paintball player gets a chance to play they act as if they are in a tourney and need to shoot fast and play hard.

Just saying this comes from a guy who embraces pumps, loves agd, and has downgraded to mags.

[FreakBaller12]

Something about this topic sounds familiar... :)

/look, it's 1996
//er, it's 1998
///wait, it's 2002
etc.
can't argue that, it's becoming infamous with players now.
However, can you argue that we haven't come closer than 1996? 1998?
I feel the NXL is going to make pb mainstream, if anything

[Coralis]

I know this doesn't actually add anything to the thread, but I think paintball was a lot more fun when it wasn't so mainstream.

[Spider-TW]

Considering inflation, I think the price of paint has dropped over the years, probably because of the increase in the amount used (electros).

For mainstream paintball, there would have to be a set mainstream rules so that we could have mainstream refs, so that we could have mainstream player segregation (levels or leagues).

The IPPL flopped, but that was before intrawebs and youtubes. Maybe the web could help the rules and definitions of players? Still having fields where gun hits or head shots don't count (and neither one) makes it hard for players that have only played a little while. They don't realize that they need to know the rules. We need to eliminate those problems so that the rules can be enforced without ignorance.

Considering that the fear of not being able to continue in the game is main reason not to get hit, we need to train or boot people that actually enjoy playing after being hit, or at least put them in their own league. :p

Of course its circular, you need enough players to be able to segregate them. :rolleyes:

[JKR]

Paintball mainstream...it's never gonna happen, folks. As long as this country continues down the path of left-wing thinking, little Johnny isn't going to be picking up a 'gun of any shape or kind to play some high school intramural ball. In a politically correct, post-Columbine era, it just ain't going to happen. Besides, there will be further villainization of ANY shooting sport over the next four years...and likely tighter controls and regulation.

And to be honest, do you really want it to become more mainstream? If paint prices go lower, more paint will be thrown in recreational 'ball and that video of the Dye Rotor loader on top of a modified DM8 shooting 40 BPS may just be coming to a field near you.

[Jeffy-CanCon]

ways to make it mainstream.

get rid of cheating
get rid of over shooting
and make new players realize that when your hit, and your gun is up. no one will shoot you. so get off the field so regulars dont get mad

All irrelevant.

Paintball is not a sport. Period. It is an industry. It will never be legitimate unless national and international governing bodies develop which are not controlled by the manufacturers. IF that happens, AND these governing bodies are somehow able to get both rec play and tournement play to conform to their rules and technical limitations, then paintball might some day be as legitimate as golf.

/EDIT -

...as to being mainstream, it is already pretty mainstream. 10-15 years ago when you said you played paintball people asked "Paintball? What is that?" Now they ask "What's that like?"

[malJohann]

The way to get a return customer in business is to start from an early age. Once they're hooked at an early age, they will always return to you for more. IMO the same applies with sport. Start with the schools. Give them pump and mech-semi leagues to make it more affordable and to help teach them to think on their feet.

If they want to go electro it will have to be out of school context, this way there's almost no space for overshooting and it'll lay the foundations of brilliant future professional players. These same players will then be the driving force and agents of change to shape future paintball into a regulated international sport.

Also, if AGD decided to start this, it will secure them a bright future with sales and maintenance on schools markers (as well as future returning customers) and after a while no one will say “Did you hear, AGD is dead?” anymore. The AGD rentals need to return in a big way, but with X-valve/Lvl10 tech as soon as possible.

[Phaelynar]

All irrelevant.

Paintball is not a sport. Period. It is an industry. It will never be legitimate unless national and international governing bodies develop which are not controlled by the manufacturers. IF that happens, AND these governing bodies are somehow able to get both rec play and tournement play to conform to their rules and technical limitations, then paintball might some day be as legitimate as golf.

/EDIT -

...as to being mainstream, it is already pretty mainstream. 10-15 years ago when you said you played paintball people asked "Paintball? What is that?" Now they ask "What's that like?"

It is viewed by the majority of people as a recreational activity or hobby. I wouldn't explain to people that I play the sport of paintball, but rather I do it in my spare time for personal gratitude.

It will never make it into the mainstream school systems. Paintball markers, whether they are semi, pump, electronic, etc. are considered firearms. I really couldn't fathom in today's society no matter who's President that a middle school or high school would be allowed to sanction students to shoot projectiles at anything (much less each other) from a compressed air/CO2 powered firearm. Their insurance costs alone would skyrocket, and with several public school systems even in very wealthy towns having a limited budget for mainstream sport equipment, I wouldn't count on this being implemented in the near future/ever.

The best way to go about it would be trying to create little / intermediate / advanced leagues like towns currently do for baseball, soccer, hockey, etc. If enough kids paid a fee of $X it would cover their paint (limited amount per team per match)/rental/air for Y amount of games during the "season."

[Spider-TW]

I think you guys hit the whole problem. Entertainment with projectiles requires an adult level of responsibility, so you're not able to really aim the whole sport at children without direct adult supervision (close to one-on-one). Couple that with the 'socially unacceptable' practice of shooting at each other, and you've narrowed the audience a lot. On average, it's an active adult game that is more fun with fewer rules.

Speaking of mainstream, has anyone seen the industry number$ for paintball compared to golf lately? I haven't heard any dollar amounts or participant comparisons in a few years. :confused:

[XM15]

I have been playing for 16 years and this has been a subject for all of these years. I would argue paintball was more mainstream in the 90's and early 2000's than now and paint was twice what is now. Paintball Sam's had no problem getting 400 to 500 out for thier big games the last few years they can barely get 75 and are closing. All the fields have been seeing less players over the last few years. Whats changed in my opinion is letting kids younger than 16 play along with high rates of fire and most fields being nothing but speed ball. Little kids getting lit up all day is not going to bring many of them back to play. You need 16 to 30 year olds playing not jobless little kids that rely on thier parents credit card. When they play that young and have a bad time all they remember is geting shot alot and it hurt alot why would they want to play ever again?

[Old School 626]

IMO What will be required is for *several* people at the national level to go forward and be ambassadors of the sport to get it better exposure. What is it that I am talking about you ask? Getting more people closer to the game by doing demos at other sporting events and social gatherings. For example many years ago Jessica Sparks was able to get a small group of folks into the Charlton Heston Celeb shoot to showcase paintball. That was still back in the woods ball days and the sport was not at viewer friendly as it is today but at least people got to handle some markers and shoot some paint that would not have otherwise had that opportunity.

Which brings me on to my next topic, video coverage needs to be better produced. Watching PB on TV is pretty sad because the way that it's shot. I don't have a solution but if someone could film/produce it better with closer camera shots and instant replay to bring the viewers into the action it would "sell" a lot better.

And then there is the commentators... Two years ago I was watching some PB on ESPN 8 and Matty Marshal was one of the commentators. (Not picking on you Matty, just using you as an example) and the three seconds I remember was Matty yelling "OH MAN, HE JUST GOT HIS FACE MOWED OFF!" Sure that would pass as viable commentary in a group of players but for the other 99% of society that does not play on a regular basis, that is way over the top for a game where we're not trying to hurt each other. It is over the top for at least two reasons that I can think of; 1) Bobby's parents may be watching that and instead of letting him do a PB party for his birthday which would introduce new players, they just decided a jumper in the back yard is better and/or 2) People/new players are going to think that "getting your face mowed" is the only way you're going to be eliminated and when/if they finally play they are not going to be inclined to move around and take chances out of fear of "getting their faces mowed" and sitting in one place waiting to be eliminated is simply not fun and therefore paintball won't merit the expense and time it takes to play on a regular basis.


Then there is US - What have you done to make a newbies day more fun besides, lite up, bunker, overshoot and otherwise marginalize them? Ever fix a stranger's marker in the parking lot? Squeegie a stranger's barrel when they are complaining their rental marker won't shoot straight and they don't know why? Show some local knowledge of the fields so they can move around more and have some options other than mushrooming out in the back and get bunkered? The difference between a fun day and the pits is often just being prepared which most of us are better than boy scouts at. Share a little, make someone's day as fun as yours. (Disclaimer: I know of many on this site that have and do commit random acts of kindness so please don't make the mistake that I am calling everyone out.)


So there is my four part plan:

- Grass roots demos with "national players".
- Better video production to bring viewers into the action.
- General Population friendly commentators.
- All of us being ambassadors of the sport.

Forget about RoF or paint cost. They are not the reasons why the sport is not growing by leaps and bounds into the mainstream juggernaut it could be. Remember that there is always a different rule set if you want to limit the RoF, pump? Gravity feed only? Hopper ball? And that paint used to be over $100 a case so count yourself lucky that you are not ramping at a big mac every two seconds. These are not the reasons why paintball is not mainstream.

There you go, my opinion. And it's worth exactly what you paid for it.

/flame on

OS

[Jaan]

Turn it into Laser Tag.

The two biggest reasons I've seen potential players shy away from paintball over the years is the pain and the cost. It's also messy, and the rental masks fog up. Laser tag fixes all these problems.

With Laser Tag games you could also have "sniper" rifles, full auto rifles, grenades etc. It would all be basically Halo in real life...LARP'ing Halo if you will. You don't even have to have a mask.

The only other way I see it becoming mainstream is if more pump players like myself introduce newbies to the game this way. Every newbie I've introduced to paintball in a pump game has loved it, especially since most pump players also show a high degree of sportsmanship. A network of pump only games to introduce new players would be ideal I think. Pump only games could be like Little League.

Start with pump only games, then the next level might be mech only, then open class electro.