Gruntbull Anodizing Woes. Not a happy camper...AGAIN!

[bunny5]

Update: 11/21/08 Gruntbull and I are working together to get this situation resolved once again. 3rd times the charm.





Background: Something about paintball anodizing has always facinated me. I always like the fact that you could take a POS gun and reanodize it and revitalize it. Ever since pbnation came out with the anodizing section I was in there learning all I could about this particular metal finishing process.

In 2006-2007 I had an idea to create a website called pbpixels.com in which we would showcase the talents of many paintball anodizers that are in business. From years of lurking the ano forums I found that anodizing is one tough job, espeically for paintballers on pbn :D Well I built the first version of the website and had almost everything up and running then I lost my hard drive. Now pbpixels.com is a place to put AGD relate stuff im interested in. I spent alot of time writing articles about and learned each company and saw which would stand out above the rest.

I recently bought a Euro Xmag and thought it should get a face lift. With my years of keeping track of the various anodizers one stood out. Gruntbull Anodizing. I have always thought that they came out with some of the best ano jobs around. I loved the fact that they would post pictures of finished jobs so the customers could see them and they have had tons of great press on any forum I went to. So me choosing Gruntbull was a no brainer.

10/14/08: Gruntbull Received 12 parts to anodize. Red to black to red fade. I attached a picture of one of the old smeared xmags see here...

Original Gun:
http://www.pbpixels.com/images/markers/1.jpg

Idea for project, but red:
http://www.pbpixels.com/images/markers/7.jpg

10/29/08: 15 days later I recieve my marker back from Gruntbull. It was a pleasant surprise seeing a package outside my house so early. I thought it was going to take longer..
I opened the package and saw that the ano job didn't come out the way I wanted.


-Feedtube seemed to have been turned to far and unscrewed a bit and took off a good chunk of anodizing. I couldn't take a picture to prove my point so I thought I could cover it with a sharpie.

-Surface scratches; This confused me the most. The parts were well packed and no metal on metal or anything but the parts had many small scratches on them.

-I asked them to remove the emag trigger magnet as Ruler_mark had a tough time removing it. They went ahead and drilled a large diameter hole into the trigger to get out the magnet. There is barely any metal to actually mount the magnet back onto because the hole is so big.

-Body seemed to have been dripped on by the black dye and had weird acid wash splotches on it.

-Gripframe seemed to be the worst and after the red fade they dripped more black dye on the gun and it came out a weird blotchy acidwash finish.

I wasn't very happy with the way it turned out.

Gripframe Splotches:
http://www.pbpixels.com/images/markers/2.jpg

Body Splotches:
http://www.pbpixels.com/images/markers/3.jpg

Fade is good, acidwash crap is not:
http://www.pbpixels.com/images/markers/4.jpg


Part of the E-mail I sent to Gruntbull Handling it well...

The scratches and the hole don't really bug me too much because they are in areas that arn't visible but the spots/smudges within the fade really take away from the gun. I attached a picture of what I'm describing to you. I do appreciate all the hard work you guys do and the turnaround was great. I expected the gun to return in couple weeks! But it just makes me upset that I didn't receive the kind of quality that Gruntbull anodizing stands for.

This was his full response

Robert, I'll try to address your concerns in order. Sometimes faded parts do get black dripped on them, sorry it didn't turn out as nice as you would have liked. None of the parts were scratched when they left our shop so if there was any shipping damage then you should file an insurance claim. Your insurance ticket should be on the package, it was insured for $100.
This is the amount that we provide free. The hole in your trigger was necessary to remove the magnet, we couldn't just let it dissolve away as this would contaminate our anodizing solution. Once a new magnet is installed the hole will be hidden. Your marker arrived around the 13th. and we shipped it out the 27th., that's a 13 day turnaround from the time we received it to the time we shipped it out.
I'm willing to work with you on re-anodizing the body and frame, if you pay for return shipping I'll eat the labor. I also encourage you to take advantage of the $100 insurance coverage, just make sure you have that taken care of before you ship the parts back to us. I hope you find this solution satisfactory.

I think they handled it very well as this what I thought they should do. I did not do the insurance claim because these parts were so well packaged it couldn't of been down by USPS. I then reinstalled everything on the marker and I thought it was going to be the end. I thought about it long enough and realized that I just wasn't happy with the way it turned out. So I e-mailed them back and wanted to ship it back to them. I re-installed the body ring not thinking I would have to take it out again so I had to pay $25.00 for return shipping and body bushing removal.

So once again I package it up and send it to them... Ted promised that they would rush back my ano job ASAP. I sent along the barrel,breach, body, and gripframe so they could correctly color match the parts....


Gruntbull: Payment received, thanks Robert. I’ll put a rush on your parts and make sure there top notch.

11/4/08: Gruntbull Recieves the marker again.
11/21/08:17 days later I recieve my marker again. So once again I reopen all of the parts like its Christmas day. lol and sure enough. The parts look like **** again. The Barrel and breach don't match the body/rail at all. The body is a weird purple but the breach is completely black. NONE of the parts actually match
*side note. Yes black dyes=purple and color matching=hard

And the fade for the gun actually looks worst than it did before. BOTH times they got the fade wrong. Along with the gun I sent/printed out tons of pictures just to make sure they were going in the right direction.
Btw, they only reanodized the body/rail nothing else. They anodized 12 parts in 15 days or 2 parts in 17 days.
Red to black to purple to black to purple red to regular red fade:
http://www.pbpixels.com/images/markers/6.jpg

I am not happy with the outcome of using Gruntbull Anodizing. I understand the hard work they do and how difficult it is to achieve perfection, but thats what people expect when you post pictures of beautifully faded markers on their websites. This experiment was also to guage to see if they could handle two of my project SFL Emags. Needless to say, they will not be touching anymore of my paintball guns. My markers are an investment and I will not tolerate a low quality anodizing job on them.

Proving a point:
http://www.pbpixels.com/images/markers/damn.jpg

This experience has left a sour taste in my mouth for this Euro Xmag. In the next few months don't be surprised to see this for sale as is. That or I'll send it to Maghog to mill the **** out of it *I WISH*

I shouldn't of sent it back in....
http://www.pbpixels.com/images/markers/lolwut.jpg

Thanks for Reading, if you did. We all have had frustrating paintball experiences, I've been slow joining the club :)

-Robert

[ajnin]

This really is a shame. Your a person whom has tried to help those annodizer on his own dime..

And you got a crappy anno job for all your hard work. This confirmed that I will never send anything to gruntbull.

I have a great anno'er for solid colors if you want that done. Pm me. sorry this happened.

[bunny5]

http://www.pbpixels.com/images/markers/cliffnotes.png http://www.pbpixels.com/images/warwitch.png

[rkjunior303]

GBA has done some of the best work I've ever seen on any of my markers. Not to mention, they are very easy to work with and have great C.S... I would reach back out to Ted and let him know what happened. Honestly - Anodizing isn't exactly an exact science. I'm sorry to hear about your woes with Todd and Ted -- they've done nothing but great work with me.

[Madmarx]

That makes me sick to my stomach.
I thought GB was the premier anodizer!
WTF?
That's just wrong!

[halB]

To my memory, this is not the first time gruntball has messed up like this. And yes, it does look like utter crap, and yes, it is definitely worse the second time around.

[michbich]

How can something like that even leave the anodizer in the first place? For it to happen twice, there is no excuse for that kind of condition.

[going_home]

Sorry to hear about your anodizing woes.
I used BAZOOKA_Boy once and was happy with his work.

And I also used NU_METAL and was happy with his work also.

Never used gruntbull.

:(

[georgeyew]

In his email reply he assured you that it was going to be top notch. Did he not see that the anno was mis-matched before he sent it back to you? Where is the quality control? I would be upset too.

[mostpeople]

I'm glad you posted this, I was considering using them on an 04 highlander but now by business is going elsewhere.

Good luck with all this bunny, it sure is a ****ty deal.

[warbeak2099]

Wow, I don't even understand how they could justify sending it back looking like that.

[Warwitch]

You can add me to the list of "never again" after they ruined my Viking. :cuss:

Customer service and materials handling is very poor with GB. Really sorry to hear its still going on. :(

[BigEvil]

So what did Ted tell you when you informed him of this latest error?

[ajnin]

Customer service and materials handling is very poor with GB. Really sorry to hear its still going on. :(


That sums it up. I work along side a retail environment. It doesnt matter how great your product is, if you customer service and quality control sucks.

[bunny5]

ajnin: Thanks for the post. I'm glad people noticed that I tried to help out anodizers. It's a very tough job and many of the paintball anodizers fall apart after the first year or so. AKA Max Anodizing. I waited to post much on my project because I wanted to see if Gruntbull could fix their mistake. They did not.

rkjunior303: I'm going to wait a couple days to see what I want to do. Many different things went wrong. TWICE.

This is a picture of the trigger that I needed the magnet removed. They charged me $10-$15 to remove the magnet. I told them specifically that I did not need the magnet and I will replace it. I thought they were going to put it in a bath to dissolve everything but apparently it would of contaminated the whole bath. So without asking me anything they drilled it out. They barely left any room to actually attach the magnet back into the trigger. AND, the inside where the magnet sits is polished aluminum and looks as though they did it after the anodizing (Shouldn't it be a dust black color)

http://www.pbpixels.com/images/trigger.jpg

At least they sent back the magnet.

Madmarx: All I could do was laugh. It was that bad.

halB: I think all anodizers have a couple bad jobs, but somehow they make it up to the customers the second time around.

michbich: So true

going_home: I knew I should of kept it AO exclusive!! No one knows automags better than AO!!!

georgeyew: Not sure if this is 100%, but Ted is located in another state and helps Todd? do Customer service. (I read this on PBN somewhere)

mostpeople: I think that if I posted this for the first mistake it wouldn't of been as bad. But this **** really pushes me over the edge. Maybe I'll sell this gun and take that luck to Vegas :D

[Ruler_Mark]

WOW. That euro body was never annod before this. making the first annod you did its first. now its on a ****ty 2nd obviously to be sent right to a 3rd.


This freaking sucks and thier reponse was bascially telling you to commit mail fraud.

[lasrsktr]

from what is looks like...

They only reanoed the Body and the frame and left the batterypack and breech unanoed.


which is highly unacceptable...

Black is made from purple bases and sometimes it turns out that color sometimes not... but thats two different batches in the picture.

http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u110/lasrsktr/Paintball/IMG_6733Large-1.jpg

as you can see they did that with my old body as well... they "couldn't do what i asked" and sent my body back with the fade as pictured and a completely dust black rail.

Sent both the body and rail back and they only redid the rail hence the somewhat different color blacks.

[bunny5]

Warwitch: Your Viking is the reason why I titled this "Gruntbull Woes" It was the first thing I thought when the gun still didn't match.

BigEvil: I haven't sent anything yet to him. I may sleep on it and see how I feel about it tomarrow.

Ruler_Mark: The rule of thumb is 3 anodizings for a gun. And this would be the third. I really hate messing around with tolerences... I was tempted to take a couple pictures as I was opening it to show how well they packaged their parts. Someone had to of drop the parts on top of each other before shipping. Its good to know that if my $1200 gun got lost that I would at least get back $100.00 :rolleyes:

[A-Tach-One]

Yeah, that ano truly looks terrible and drilling a hole in your trigger to get the magnet out is just wacky. :confused:

[bunny5]

from what is looks like...

They only reanoed the Body and the frame and left the batterypack and breech unanoed.


which is highly unacceptable...

Black is made from purple bases and sometimes it turns out that color sometimes not... but thats two different batches in the picture.

The second time I sent it I shipped the barrel, breach, body, and gripframe. They said all they needed was the barrel to color match. I sent an e-mail back stating that the breach may not match correctly...


E-mail From me to Ted about how the colors may not match correctly:
Would there be a substantial color difference with the breaches if the body was reano'd again? Would you be able to get a color match or will the dust black on the breach be different then the newly anodized version. I would have the vert breach on the gun most of the time, so I don't mind if the warp breach is a little bit off. Sorry if I'm a worry wart but the idea just popped in my head. Thanks

His response:

That is a possibility, you should send it along too so we have something to shoot for.

lol. what kills me is that it took LONGER to anodize 2 parts instead of anodizing 12 parts.

[lasrsktr]

The second time I sent it I shipped the barrel, breach, body, and gripframe. They said all they needed was the barrel to color match. I sent an e-mail back stating that the breach may not match correctly...



His response:


lol. what kills me is that it took LONGER to anodize 2 parts instead of anodizing 12 parts.



Color Samples - We no longer offer color matching.

thats from their website stating color matching is to hard to do so they no longer attempt it.

They should have reanoed everything just to make sure it all matched.

[Sumthinwicked]

i agree toss everything in the bath again and start fresh would have the way to do it as to color matching IS VERY HARD but hey thats me

[bunny5]

Idk if its just me, but....

Does the fade at anytime look like the one I wanted???????? lol

[phizz]

I have to say I was considering using them for annodizing but after seeing this there is no way I will ever consider them again. If they make it up to your that may be a different story but it still sucks and I will make sure I spread the word.

[Thotograph]

Never thought I'd see another instance of GB trying to pass off subpar work. That is just SAD. Warwitch-gate was painful enough for the collective to absorb... a virgn euromag is just too much. If and when I get some anno work (and therfore the money and will to proceed) I know where I won't be taking my biz...

[VeeWee]

I was told by a couple of annodizers that Automags are a pain in the butt to match because AGD used different grades of aluminum, no excuse for the rest of your problems though.

[bunny5]

phizz: These pictures are worth a thousand words. or maybe up to $300.00 with anodizing plus the price of drilling a hole in a $30 trigger plus all the shipping that I had to pay...

Thotograph: I cringe at the thought of having one of my SFLs done by gruntbull :eek:

VeeWee: I figured that if they really couldn't color match it correctly they would at least ask for all the parts to re-do the anodizing. Instead of doing the right thing they went about it in a very "lazy" fashion. I would of been a little bit more happy if they re-did all FOUR parts.

Keep the posts coming guys. I want to hear your opinions on it. Thanks

[Warwitch]

I like that you had a pie option. But you forgot to mention that pie (while attractive) doesnt leave that bitter aftertaste in your mouth like GB does either. :hwarf:


Even if he offered to redo it (again) how could he expect you to have any confidence? What the hell is wrong with the work ethic in this industry? Christ I take more pride in my morning "constitutional" than they do with their ano.

[StygShore]

http://www.pbpixels.com/images/markers/cliffnotes.png http://www.pbpixels.com/images/warwitch.png


ouch....


:)


Styg

[robnix]

Your story is why I don't go with the big guys anymore.

I believe that the quality of work demanded by paintballers, and the variety of parts that comes in excludes a large scale operation from staying successful. Because of how labor intensive it is, it's hard to do a large amount of custom fades, splashes, and polished whatevers that people want and have enough competent staff on hand to do the work in a timely and consistent fashion.

The only guy I use now only does this part time, has always gone the extra mile, and has ALWAYS delivered.

And this part?


Robert, I'll try to address your concerns in order. Sometimes faded parts do get black dripped on them, sorry it didn't turn out as nice as you would have liked. None of the parts were scratched when they left our shop so if there was any shipping damage then you should file an insurance claim. Your insurance ticket should be on the package, it was insured for $100. This is the amount that we provide free. The hole in your trigger was necessary to remove the magnet, we couldn't just let it dissolve away as this would contaminate our anodizing solution. Once a new magnet is installed the hole will be hidden. Your marker arrived around the 13th. and we shipped it out the 27th., that's a 13 day turnaround from the time we received it to the time we shipped it out. I'm willing to work with you on re-anodizing the body and frame, if you pay for return shipping I'll eat the labor. I also encourage you to take advantage of the $100 insurance coverage, just make sure you have that taken care of before you ship the parts back to us. I hope you find this solution satisfactory.

Sorry - How much is your X-Mag worth and it was insured for $100.00??

There's no excuse for what I would consider shoddy, lazy, and in the case of the trigger, thoughtless work. You should have been asked for alternatives before they drilled it out. At that point they went beyond the specs of the job and made a poor decision on YOUR gear without getting YOUR approval.

The second set of pics? Pathetic. AFAIC, they owe you an new X-Mag. A refund for all the work at a minimum. If they sent that kind of work to their bulk clients, would the excuses they gave you be acceptable?

[Smoothice]

dude, I'm not sure what is harder to look at. Your anno job or the wedding photo thread on beo. :rofl:

[Phaelynar]

I thought they did a good job anodizing my tarantula cyborg. However, that was several years ago...and things change.

After I had a custom vasa / grip frame milled by Warpedmephisto, I sent those parts off to Dirt Products. Took 6 days for turnaround for the two parts going from dust to gloss, and their prices were cheaper than everywhere else.

If I was in your shoes and my x-mag came back like yours after a second attempt, I'd mail it back to them COD'd for the cost of the marker + anodizing. If they refused, I'd file a complaint with the BBB and see if any other actions could be taken against the company for compensation.

At least you can go out with guns blazing :shooting:

[BigEvil]

ajnin: T
This is a picture of the trigger that I needed the magnet removed. They charged me $10-$15 to remove the magnet. I told them specifically that I did not need the magnet and I will replace it. I thought they were going to put it in a bath to dissolve everything but apparently it would of contaminated the whole bath. So without asking me anything they drilled it out. They barely left any room to actually attach the magnet back into the trigger. AND, the inside where the magnet sits is polished aluminum and looks as though they did it after the anodizing (Shouldn't it be a dust black color)

http://www.pbpixels.com/images/trigger.jpg




Why do people find it so hard to take a cigarette lighter and heat the magnet up until the glue melts away?

[Warwitch]

http://www.pbpixels.com/images/markers/cliffnotes.png http://www.pbpixels.com/images/warwitch.png



I just shot milk (and one Cheerio) out of my nose. :spit_take


Hey wait..... thats not funny. :cry:

[bunny5]

Warwitch: I really don't even feel like messing with Gruntbull again. I patiently waited to let them make up for the first mistakes. I wish I could of gotten better pictures to show how awful the first anodizing came out. I mean all they had to do was look at the gun and see the splotches all over the place.

StygShore: I kid, I kid :D My issue is/was nowhere near yours :hail:

robnix: I was shocked to see the quality of work that gruntbull had done. Especially when they messed up the gun once before. The next time I want to anodize something I will be talking to the anodizer directly.

Ted= Customer Service Todd=Anodizer (Maybe, who knows :( )

smoothice: Mine probably. I only had 500 views compared to the Wedding Photos which have been view 1,000,000 times :(

Phaelynar: So much effort :( I'm still torn whether or not to try and get it reanodized agian.

BigEvil: Ask ruler_mark about that :D

Warwitch:
Simon, you need to act like an adult.


I'll probably post this on PBN to cause a ****storm like warwitch did. Wish me luck!

[Smoothice]

Good Luck!!!

I mean it truly is unacceptable. Next time go with bazooka_boy. I love the work he did on my xmag.

I'm planning another job with him in the near future. Possibly a fade. I'll keep you posted on that.

Oh btw. Todd is located here in California. I think he is just the online face of the company.

[BigEvil]

Good Luck!!!

I mean it truly is unacceptable. Next time go with bazooka_boy. I love the work he did on my xmag.


I hope he starts taking work again.I have a few jobs sitting here....


Oh btw. Todd is located here in California. I think he is just the online face of the company.


Correct. As a matter of fact, the last two times I have dealt with GBA I spoke with Ted, who I believe is the brawn of the operation.

For the most part they have done competent work. I am very interested to see how this is resolved.

[Dark Side]

dude, I'm not sure what is harder to look at. Your anno job or the wedding photo thread on beo. :rofl:


That is harsh. I hope you anno job gets taken care of. I was still considering GB until know.

[behemoth]

What gets me is, you think they'd know by now taht anno the 2nd time around looks different, so why not re-anno the whole thing?

Its like they're asking to get themselves into a pickle.

[bunny5]

Well I sent Gruntbull(ted) an e-mail saying this thread speaks for itself...

this is his response.


Well Robert I think you should have left it like it was.

What can I do to make this right?

[Warwitch]

"Act like an adult." :rolleyes: Id forgotten about that little snip. Well you know what they say, crap always comes out in the wash. I got tired of defending myself and I knew where they were headed. Its been a long time since GB put out the quality they were known for. You can only BS the entire community for so long.

[Dend78]

dude, I'm not sure what is harder to look at. Your anno job or the wedding photo thread on beo. :rofl:

:spit_take


well that about sums it up for me i was gonna use them on my micro E but since i read this i may be giving thefool a call

bunny i would for sure contact them again there is no way i would sit with a 4 tone gun when i only wanted a 2 tone fade

[Jaan]

They shouldn't have made you pay for return shipping in the first place. That's just low.

At this point, if it was me, I'd ask for a full refund, including shipping. I doubt they would pay for a new gun which is what they should do, but at least money wise you'll start off from square 1.

I'd just say to hell with it and have it totally stripped and have it gold plated, or my personal favorite, black chrome. People think gold plating is expensive but it's not that bad, you're only using a relatively small amount of gold. All that "gold" jewelry at Wal Mart isn't that much is it?

[Dend78]

eww black chrome would be sessey

[BigEvil]

Bunny's thread on PBN went poof!! :confused:

[Warwitch]

Bunny's thread on PBN went poof!! :confused:


Why am I not suprised. Thats crap. Try to inform the community when someone has a legit gripe and you get pulled.

[Dend78]

Bunny's thread on PBN went poof!! :confused:

on PBN :eek: no never nothing ever just falls through the cracks there

:spit_take

[Warwitch]

WOW. Just checked GB's website and a couple of things caught my eye.

1: My Viking is on thier homepage under "Recent Work"

and

2: It seems that now they are anodizing yo-yos. And I quote:

"Heck even Todd has looked into a Yo to pass away some of the time throughout the day."

Im guessing thats what they were doing when they should have been watching our markers.

[Spider-TW]

I'll bet there's a new guy doing the work. It's hard to believe that someone would even bother doing the work in the first place if they were capable but didn't care enough about their work to produce quality results.

[Dend78]

Robert, what can i do to make this right?



A) complete refund.

B) reanodize complete marker.

C) complete refund and reanodize complete marker.

What do you think is fair?



glad to see this its great when a company will actually own up and say exactly that

[Ruler_Mark]

glad to see this its great when a company will actually own up and say exactly that


Yea after they ruin a virgin euro xmag body.

[Dend78]

Yea after they ruin a virgin euro xmag body.

very true, but ive seen crap all to many times go as is because a company wouldnt do anything about it even though it was their problem to fix

[DevilMan]

Kudos to GBA for stepping in and posting up.

Bunny... Best of luck in getting it resolved man...

DM

[Ruler_Mark]

How is it ruined?

How many times do you think a marker can be safely reanodized?


After anodizing almost 1000 paintball markers in the last three years I can tell you that they can safely be reanodized more times than you might think.


This particular marker has only been done twice. Do you really think its ruined?


From a collectors standpoint YES. Part of that gun's value was the fact that you can get it annoed and it would be the first anno on it. Thats something special.

sure a body can take a few re-annos but what about the threads. Espcially for tight tolerance guns.

Between this, war's gun, and the fact you lost the trigger to a friend of mine's emag without telling him and shipping his gun back missing the part. I advise no-1 to use you. Now if ya'll start producing quality again I could change my mind.

[xxkylexx]

Option D, free anodizing for all...

[Phaelynar]

From a collectors standpoint YES. Part of that gun's value was the fact that you can get it annoed and it would be the first anno on it. Thats something special.

sure a body can take a few re-annos but what about the threads. Espcially for tight tolerance guns.


I don't think the value of the marker drops based on the number of times its' been anodized...to some extent. If its' been done like 6 times I could see where purchasing it and having the idea of re-anodizing the marker at some point in the future would be worrisome.

On the other hand, if the anodizing job ends up looking like a giant turd, it also decreases the value of the marker.

I would say the best option would be to send it back at no cost to the owner of the x-mag, with the stipulation that it comes out right this time, and that if for whatever reason the marker no longer functions due to being anodized x many times when it should've only been done once, Gruntbull purchases the marker + eats the anodizing costs.

I would also advise the owner of the x-mag to eliminate the fade aspect of the anodizing. Do some parts black, and some parts red. Maybe he'd eat the cost of a tattoo or making it gloss to compensate for the removal of the fade.

There's also another option out there as well. Seeing as Gruntbull posted here offering a full refund, use that money to send it elsewhere, or just have him pay for another company to anodize your marker. If the other company screws it up too though, I'd say it's no longer in Gruntbull's hands, and that you'll just have to deal with it.

Or you could just leave it as is :rofl:

No matter what option you choose (and you have several) I'm sure it'll work out in the end. :cheers:

[mobsterboy]

oh dear...
and i'm waiting on my PM5 to return from GBA. I did a solid color though :) so maybe I'm safe.

[BigEvil]

oh dear...
and i'm waiting on my PM5 to return from GBA. I did a solid color though :) so maybe I'm safe.


Im glad to see GBA's desire to make this right. :bounce: You should be ok.

I look forward to Bunny's next set of pics :cheers:

[Rudz]

Todd has balls showing up here

Kudos bro

He has offered a full refund and re anno, that sounds good to me

Only if todd can garantee that there won't be another "oops"

I think they are competent annodizers, just maybe for some reason a bit too relaxed at times


Hope this all works out


And I too vote option "D", put it to a vote

Aye!!!!

[Ruler_Mark]

I don't think the value of the marker drops based on the number of times its' been anodized...to some extent. If its' been done like 6 times I could see where purchasing it and having the idea of re-anodizing the marker at some point in the future would be worrisome.

On the other hand, if the anodizing job ends up looking like a giant turd, it also decreases the value of the marker.

I would say the best option would be to send it back at no cost to the owner of the x-mag, with the stipulation that it comes out right this time, and that if for whatever reason the marker no longer functions due to being anodized x many times when it should've only been done once, Gruntbull purchases the marker + eats the anodizing costs.

I would also advise the owner of the x-mag to eliminate the fade aspect of the anodizing. Do some parts black, and some parts red. Maybe he'd eat the cost of a tattoo or making it gloss to compensate for the removal of the fade.

There's also another option out there as well. Seeing as Gruntbull posted here offering a full refund, use that money to send it elsewhere, or just have him pay for another company to anodize your marker. If the other company screws it up too though, I'd say it's no longer in Gruntbull's hands, and that you'll just have to deal with it.

Or you could just leave it as is :rofl:

No matter what option you choose (and you have several) I'm sure it'll work out in the end. :cheers:

The bushing in the rail effects the valve when changed by thousanths of an inch, who use al xvalves. There can be a preformance issue with mags when they are re-annoed alot. Wasnt GB who put a hole in a ww's vik imagine the tight tolerances and how they like the constant stripping. :rofl:


Whats funnie is thoose who jump to defend GB on this, you pay them todo something and they dont do it. QC failed again, I have been wondering why the GB gallery isnt updated as much anymore its cause this is thier new status quo, crap.

[Empyreal Rogue]

It's funny how this turns into a relentlessly bash GBA thread.

Then as soon as Todd (Or is it Ted who is Gruntbull? I always thought it was Todd) steps in to post people are dishing out respect.

[Dend78]

It's funny how this turns into a relentlessly bash GBA thread.

Then as soon as Todd (Or is it Ted who is Gruntbull? I always thought it was Todd) steps in to post people are dishing out respect.


nobody was really bashing them to hard, more people were bashing on the job that was done which was obviouly their fault on both counts, but then for Todd to come in and say hey what can i do to fix this takes some serious balls and kudos for that. as i said before ive seen plenty of things go unfinished or as is because a place screwed it up and in turn would do nothing about it aside from say i did what you asked

[mostpeople]

What I would really like to see is an explanation if HOW that made it out the door of their facility?

I mean, after 'annodizing 1000's of markers' they should easily be able to tell they did a poor job. So can we get a response from GBA personally about why the let it out the door? If you were honestly lazy, then say so, if there was another reason, say so.. otherwise we all have to assume you don't care. Which, case in point is why I am taking my business elsewhere - sorry.

[Swiss Cheeze]

ahaha I had to be the loser and vote "no" just so I could mess with the math.

But all seriousness. I was going to get a marker anno'd through GB, but I am pondering it heavily now. I think that if your the one running the business, but you have some noobs doing the work it would be fair to say that you should have final say on whether a marker goes out in the condition it is in or not. If you have been doing this for a while and you were the one that anno'd that would you have sent this off in all honesty to someone. Probably not because it looks like sh1t. Take a step back and understand that money is not your cure all. It's the people who you do business with that provide that money for you to do an outstanding job earning it.

I have had 2 markers done recently. My newest one was not perfect but it was a ***** to work with and I understand that and the person that did the work was honest with me. I dread to think of what it would have looked like after going to gb. Unfortunately I will have to wait sometime before he will do some work again and make me a happy camper.

Get this sh1t right and fix this person and marker up so they and the marker can feel happy again.

[Pneumagger]

Swiss Cheese,
It's my understanding that "Gruntbull" is not the one that personally anodizes it nor the one who inspects it.
Actually, I believe he is several states away from the facility gruntbull uses. He's a Remote Owner, if you will.

That being said, how would try to handle it remotely?
Aside fom offering to fix it for free and speaking with the operations supervisor... There's not much that can personally be done on his behalf.

I would not hesitate to use GBA inthe future. I've used them twice and they've been great twice.
I know GBA will be geting an email for a quote on this run of frames were trying to get put together if we decide to anodize them.

[bunny5]

Gruntbull: Thanks for posting in this thread. This is my first experience with you so my trust level is very low right now, but I would like to work things out with you. Within my research of paintball anodizing Gruntbull has stood out above the rest outshining even the most popular anodizers at the time. If anyone ever posted on a forum about anodizing I was there to chime in and say "Gruntbull is top notch, i've seen tons of great work for them" I would hate to think that each time I said that I was wrong.
Out of respect for your company I even retracted my post on pbnation in fear of starting a huge company bashing thread. Within doing business with you I would of liked to seen the following done...


With this situation I feel as though communication about the marker could of been handled better.

-I would of liked to know that you guys needed to drill the trigger magnet out and that it would be a very large diameter. The magnet has to be glued to something..

-Before shipping the marker out I would of loved to see a picture of it on your infamous "digi camo" background. I actually thought this was standard practice for Gruntbull.

-I would of liked to have communication of when the marker left your facilities. You already have delivery confirmations on the packages, why not send the number to the customer.

-If it was that difficult to color match your original dust black (which looks great btw) to a new chemical bath why did you risk your whole reputation on it. It wouldn't of been difficult to package a few more parts up (battery pack, asa,breaches)

-I would of liked to know if anyone is in charge of overseeing what goes back out to the customers. Maybe a signature or something.

-I would liked to know who the actually anodizer is? I'm a bit confused on who Ted is and who Todd is.

If you are willing to perfrom some of the above (delivery # sent, pictures, any big changes) I will be willing to have Gruntbull Anodizing do the work for me, again. I will formally e-mail you a contract to outline the things that I would like to see done and hopefully I can update this thread with some uber-sexy pictures :D

or option D.

[Rudz]

GBA messed up, yes, but he's offering to fix it, so I think we should give him the benefit of a doubt.

Why did it happen? Who knows. Will it happen again? We should hope not. Because GBA was built on this forum, so I hope todd doesn't forget where he comes from and who his customers are.

I say we all relax and give todd a chance to fix this, because I'm willing to bet he isn't the one responsible for the botched anno, but he's willing to fix it.


Bunny I hope this marker turns out beautiful.

[Dend78]

GBA messed up, yes, but he's offering to fix it, so I think we should give him the benefit of a doubt.

Why did it happen? Who knows. Will it happen again? We should hope not. Because GBA was built on this forum, so I hope todd doesn't forget where he comes from and who his customers are.

I say we all relax and give todd a chance to fix this, because I'm willing to bet he isn't the one responsible for the botched anno, but he's willing to fix it.


Bunny I hope this marker turns out beautiful.




I think that sounds reasonable. I'm awaiting your email.

i give that a hell yeah

[Swiss Cheeze]

Well honestly then he should replace the person that does okay this stuff to be sent out.

You use who you wish and figure out that question if your stuff comes back looking half-@ss. I am sure you would have a different outlook on this.

I am not stating that I wouldn't use gb.

Also it's Cheeze not Cheese so read it and spell it right.

I am happy that gb is taking care of it, but anymore it's like this. You have to get the word out or you just keep getting bs from the company and nothing gets done.

I applaud b5 for doing this and I applaud gb for working to resolve it. I think a boot needs to be in someone's @ss that okay'd the anno.



Swiss Cheese,
It's my understanding that "Gruntbull" is not the one that personally anodizes it nor the one who inspects it.
Actually, I believe he is several states away from the facility gruntbull uses. He's a Remote Owner, if you will.

That being said, how would try to handle it remotely?
Aside fom offering to fix it for free and speaking with the operations supervisor... There's not much that can personally be done on his behalf.

I would not hesitate to use GBA inthe future. I've used them twice and they've been great twice.
I know GBA will be geting an email for a quote on this run of frames were trying to get put together if we decide to anodize them.

[Ruler_Mark]

GB, I have been bashing you all this thread. Thanks for being professional, atleast the face have good controll over what they are suppose todo.

[bunny5]

so no option d :( Gruntbull i'll write something up over the weekend. I will leave this thread up but i'll update the original post to reflect what will happen. Stay tuned.

thanks swiss cheeze for ruining my poll :cuss:

[Warwitch]

Since it hasnt been clarified; Todd & Ted are brothers (I believe but maybe just partners). Todd does all the "customer service" and Ted does the anodizing. They dont physically work together just via the phone/internet. Which causes all kinds of problems due to poor communication. Just because you convey your expectations to Todd doesnt mean the guy actually doing the work understands. The left hand doesnt know what the right hand is doing. I went into extreme detail working out what I wanted on my gold Viking and the finished product was not close.

[Warwitch]

Todd and I are brothers.

Todd is serving our country in Iraq at the moment so I take care of CS and oversee the anodizing operation.

There have been a few instances of poor communication between Todd and myself but we always strive to satisfy our customer.

WW I thought the issue with your marker has been resolved.


I am satisfied that you redid the ano. But the finished product was not what I had tried to convey to Todd. The finish quality was fine. Not exceptional but good. And there was no need for me to rock the boat after everything was done with. I liked it enough to let it drop.

[halB]

I'm human. That is the only explanation I can "honestly" offer.


ARE you? What color is your blood? Do people have their flavenoids on the right or left side?




//trick question...

[bunny5]

How is it ruined?

How many times do you think a marker can be safely reanodized?


After anodizing almost 1000 paintball markers in the last three years I can tell you that they can safely be reanodized more times than you might think.


This particular marker has only been done twice. Do you really think its ruined?


Not trying to beat a dead horse but when I e-mailed you and said I had concerns about tolerences you sent me this...


Gruntbull E-mail:
We can reano it, but it of course is going to loosen up the tolerance. If you can live with the ano that would be the best as the Euro Xmag is pretty thin around the xvalve area to begin with. $25 should cover shipping and bushing removal, also include the barell so that we have something to match to. Thanks Robert!

So i find it a bit conflicting to the statement above.

[Smoothice]

3rd times a charm?!?

Honestly the first try seemed to be a "human" mistake. But the second try? Wow!

I look forward to seeing the corrected product.

[Madmarx]

Exactly smooth!

Yes it's nice that they are now willing to fix it and refund money but that's only because of this thread.

It should have been done right the first time and if it wasn't then it should never have left.
Sending that marker out in that condition the second time is ridiculous.

I feel there should be a full refund given AND the complete marker redone to perfection.

Just my 2 cents

[AO Moderation Team]

Update: 11/21/08 Gruntbull and I are working together to get this situation resolved once again. 3rd times the charm

That about locks it up. Did the rules change and we missed the memo??? No SWEARING See the rules. This thread fails with activation and circumvention in some posts. :nono:

bunny5............five day multiple, you know better

mostpeople.......three day, you know better

Ruler_Mark.......three day you know better

Swiss Cheeze......five day multiple, you will learn and now know better.