Help Me Help The Kids... NEED AO SUPPORT!

[one_quick_ta]

I am a counselor at a boys shelter and here is my problem... uninformed people... i am trying to get a paintball day for the kids many of whom already play others who would never have the opportunity due to their parents financial situation etc... problem is i keep running into the same bs ..."its violent"..."they will get hurt"... etc...

we take them skating at a skatepark with a full half pipe... we take them bowling... snowboarding and skiing... the list goes on and on all of which are more dangerous than PB...

many other programs take their kids to play... so i need to put together a proposal but i also need to be able to prove them wrong. and answer all their questions before they ask them.

So here is what i need from AO:

Statistics (where to get them so i can site them and show my sources)
positve stories if you have them about how PB helped you
anything that would help me get these kids into something besides video games, drugs and Crime
also any other examples of boys programs that you may know of that use paintball

[DevilMan]

If it was that dangerous of a sport then kids aged 10 and up would not be allowed to play it PERIOD!!!!!

Or take each of the "old farts" a couple of ping pong balls and tell them that they should put those in their shorts so then maybe they could finally say they had a pair.

Good luck with it man,

DM

[pk5]

Have you posted this question on MCB? I can't remember who, but there was a MCB member who collect marker and use them to go with his youth group.

As for my case, i have always taken my youth group Ages 10 to 16 to paintball every year. They love it, it give them a chance to do something beside just camping and bonfire, and we still play it to this day. I am taking them in december to a scenario paintball one too.

[one_quick_ta]

Have you posted this question on MCB? I can't remember who, but there was a MCB member who collect marker and use them to go with his youth group.

As for my case, i have always taken my youth group Ages 10 to 16 to paintball every year. They love it, it give them a chance to do something beside just camping and bonfire, and we still play it to this day. I am taking them in december to a scenario paintball one too.

where are you located, what is the youth group called, i can totally use your expierience thanks for the post

[Watcher]

Getting more kids into paintball is great.

I think 95% of players have a very outgoing attitude when it comes to new players and such, and as long as everyone is friendly and laid back everyone has a good time.

As far as the safety is concerned and "someone is going to get hurt", I'd do a physical demonstration of goggles, barrelsocks, chronographs, and remind everyone that a deticated staff of referees who are employed to make sure everyone is kept safe is on site at all times.
Remember that the reason PB is safer than sitting on your couch and watching TV is because EVERYONE follows the saftey rules and wears the masks and uses barrel socks. The referees are there to make sure it in fact is everyone, and not just those who feel like it.

Kids are going to be running around a field, tripping, getting bruises, and having fun playing tag so why not give them goggles and a marker and have them running around a field, tripping, getting bruises, and having fun playing "tag" :p

Search for some of Tyger's videos with expertvillage. He has a lot of good information that may prove usefull.

I remember I wrote a paper for college on paintball and I went over peoples' immediate opinions and debunked them as well as proving how many good, honest people play and have fun and how it isn't a "war game" in most respects (see: scenario).
If I can dig it up I'll send you the word file.

[DanMan]

Paintball is actually the source of all the worlds problems and therefore should be banned in general. Those "old farts" you speak about actually sound like they are very reasonable. lol

But yeah, i would sell it as no more violent than a game of tag or capture the flag. The only difference being that tagging just became long range! And compared to the other things you mentioned very safe.

[firsttarget]

Warpig has a great deal of information. http://www.warpig.com/

[warbeak2099]

Wait for them to die. Or...

[spwz99]

This just proves my belief that it is the people with no knowledge about a subject who are the most dangerous. They base their beliefs on conjecture and secondhand information with little to no facts involved.

Like my girlfriend's psychology professor who told her class that paintball guns should be illegal since they can be easily converted into a real firearm. (He also believes that all firearms should be outlawed)

[Ruler_Mark]

Leave them. Vote with your hourage. You dont like them find a different house that lets the kids play pb.

[Chrishew09]

just google'd it

http://www.paint-ball.org/paintball/safety_report.htm

[Beemer]

Leave them. Vote with your hourage. You dont like them find a different house that lets the kids play pb.


Is that what you would do and fail at your objective and accomplish nothing?

[one_quick_ta]

crishew thanks man that site helped a lot!

beemer i totally agree with you... if i went to a program that played already i wouldnt be advancing the sport at all, id be giving up and letting them win...

thank you everyone for your feedback!

KEEP IT COMING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Ruler_Mark]

Is that what you would do and fail at your objective and accomplish nothing?


No just that generally elder people's views cannot be changed no matter. A place like that cannot function without volunteers so if they wont do what he wants he should spend his hourage somewhere else.

[one_quick_ta]

No just that generally elder people's views cannot be changed no matter. A place like that cannot function without volunteers so if they wont do what he wants he should spend his hourage somewhere else.


im not a volunteer, i actually get paid... lol i guess you could call it that... but i do agree that old ppls opinions dont change, ive been working there for a year and the reason im trying now is because we got a new director and clinical coordinator they are about my age so i saw a glimmer of hope i just need the research and the rebuttles for their arguements...

[pk5]

where are you located, what is the youth group called, i can totally use your expierience thanks for the post


I am located in San Diego, California. Our your group is called the "Our Lady of the Sacred Heart Youth", basically we're a church group, even though we'll accept anybody who want to join. Let me know if you have any other question, even though for the elders, you have to actually take them out to play or let them shoot a few for them to understand the concept. Funny how as people grow older they forget the dangerous thing they use to do as a kid.

[gunangel]

I actually did a comparison yesterday to explain why the bruise on my sister's knee is so much bigger than the welt on my stomach, and why mine doesn't hurt at all.

A paintball weighs 3.2 grams
A child (or my sister for example) weighs 45 KILO grams.

A person has a mass approximately 14000 times greater then a paintball.

If force equals mass times acceleration a paintball would have to accelerate 14000 times faster than a person running into an object. Since I'm too lazy to calculate the accelerations and compare them...we will use the much easier momentum.

A paintball has a momentum of < 0.0032 kilorgrams * 280 fps (since the paintball is constantly slowing down due to air resistance) having a momentum of 0.896 kg *fps.

For a child to have the same momentum they would need to have a velocity of 0.896/45 =0.01991111 feet per second.

So a paintball hitting someone is equivalent to a child using two finger to poke someone at 0.01991111 feet per second or 0.0135 Miles Per Hour. Now my sister being a klutz constantly walks into the side of doors and such. If we say she moves at roughly 5 MPH (that's a 12 minute mile or a 3 minute quarter mile lap...a brisk walk) she has greatly exceeded the amount of momentum that she would have to disperse, then again the knee has a bigger surface area but it is not 370 times greater.

Now people reach speeds of up to 20 miles per hour or more on a half pipe, and when they fall it is human instinct to reach towards the ground. While the are of impact is much greater they momentum they have is 1481 times greater and the palm is not 1481 times greater than the size of a paintball thus they cannot distribute that momentum causing injuries.

Now this is really lazy science, and probably not the best thing to use. But as long as there are no physics fanatics or engineers included in the "old farts" it is very sound. It should show the point regarding the safety of paintball. On top of all this we usually encourage a few layers of clothes, and masks are a must. If all else fails you can ask the old farts if they want to shoot you and see how safe and fun it can be, and you can always ask if they felt like they had blood lust afterwards.

[psychowarden]

I did a congress resolution for Speech and Debate on "Paintball as a school sport." I will dig around and see if I can find my resolution, as well as all the information and sources I used.

In every student congress I was in, I was able to change the vote from almost all the way unanimous "NO" to a pass. Never did my resolution get shut down.

[Phoenix250]

I have an essay I wrote... dunno if it'll be of much use... I'll slap it here anyway


What Does it Really Mean to Be a Paintballer?

To say that paintball is a sub-culture is not inaccurate. However, it may be more accurate to say that paintball is a world in itself. I remember the first time I was invited into this world, to go and play a few rounds with a group of friends. Crammed into a car for an hour-long drive to who-knows-where, I stumbled out slightly annoyed, yet still eager with anticipation. Little did I know that a few hours later I’d be tired, sore, hot, sweaty, covered in paint and about eighty dollars less in the wallet. Was it worth all that? Most definitely.

To understand exactly how paintball is a subculture, we must first examine what paintball itself is. If you consult a dictionary, you might find that definition is “a game in which participants simulate military combat using air guns to shoot capsules of paint at each other” (“Paintball”). “The Complete Guide to Paintball” explains that:
The answer is two-fold. Paintball is basically an advanced version of tag ... the whole point of it is to have a good time in a competitive context ... Paintball is also more than a game ... Paintball captures the essence of the basic struggle of every living being. Staying in the game is the most obvious metaphor for staying alive. (Cohen 2-3)
However, if you were to ask a player, one who had been involved with paintball for a long time, you might find a more evolved and ambiguous description than either of those. Paintball is not exactly a game, and not exactly a sport. Yet, it is both at the same time and it feels like a lot more than either. It is at this point that paintball becomes a subculture.

Paintball develops its own subculture through its players. What people see of their actions and their lingo make up this unique world that people on the outside view narrowly as paintball. On the inside, paintball's subculture is a different story. It is a grand fusion of many things. Classic sports such as hockey, a bit of warfare and survival, and everything there could be to please a high-adrenaline thrill seeker form the physical base. It also consists of the socialization, the camaraderie, the general, unwritten, code of decent conduct between the combatants. The study of science, business and art come into play as well. Looking more deeply, it is even possible to see intelligent discussion, and possibly more than anything else, the fan-based semi-obsession one would be used to seeing associated with car enthusiasts. These things and many more are that which make paintball so special to those that can truly call themselves “paintballers”. Among these are the things that make me a true paintballer.

I would say that I have come along way since my first initiation into being a paintballer, and by now I have filled that role and have reasonably settled into the surrounding subculture. I have been accepted into the “family” that play and love the sport. I’ve also been immersed in the sea of knowledge required to comprehend all aspects of the game. I know from the player to the field to the equipment, to the point where I can carry out a conversation without being understood by the average person. I anticipate each and every round as greatly as my first, and although most times, it’s a tough and expensive pastime, I always come back for more. However, it is not only the things about me that are different, but also many common traits I possess that make me a part of this subculture. Everyone loves to talk about an activity they like, or just interact with others. On one of the many paintball forums it is no different. Everyone loves to kick back, relax and blow off a little steam in a positive way, and I’m no exception. Though through an uncommon means, paintballers in general go simply to have fun, like everyone else. Unfortunately, due to said uncommon means, paintball is often viewed negatively by mainstream culture.

Most of today’s modern culture views paintball as overly violent, or simply vandalism. It is not hard to see why with news articles titled, “Paintball was practice, says terror-cell mole” (Canadian Student Research Centre), “Teen faces numerous charges after firing at cars with paintball gun” (Canadian Student Research Centre), or even “Young Winnipeg man charged with firing paintball gun at homeless man” (Canadian Student Research Centre), and many other of the like. And it is at this frontier that conflict between culture and subculture occurs, and most people become opposed to paintball; become biased and forget to look inside the subculture before making assumptions. They assume it is a wild, dangerous unregulated exercise where people play with guns with the intent to injure other people. In reality, however, the people of paintball are more human than depicted, most even cringe at the word “gun” and would much prefer the use of the term “paintball marker” instead. There are set rules and regulations like any other sport. Safety equipment is required and strictly enforced. Paintball is more about team-building, recreation and exercise than it is about terrorism or war. Most people are ashamed that certain members of the paintball community have less integrity and dignity than the rest. For those that are true paintballers, they are always generous, and have a sense of honour. For those, paintball may even be believed to be more of a gentlemen’s sport than something like basketball or football, and honestly, they may be right.

Even with all that paintball has been said to be, there are still more facets than can be explained in this essay. Relatively, of the huge subculture that paintball is, this is merely a summary, as the game itself ranges from the most basic of primal instinct to the most sophisticated cunning, and paintball in its entirety spans infinitely more than that. I know when I pick up my marker, it reminds me. Not just because of what game or sport I play, but it’s who I am, that makes me a Paintballer.


Works Cited and Consulted
Canadian Student Research Centre. “Basic Search: Results for ‘Paintball’.” EBSCOhost. 2008. 18 October 2008. <http://web.ebscohost.com/src/results?vid=2&hid=3&sid=180c3f91-244f-433c-9907-e62c4502a8b8%40sessionmgr7&bquery=(paintball)&bdata=JmNsaTA9RlQmY2x2MD1ZJmNsaTE9Q1kxJmNsdjE9WSZh bXA7bGFuZz1lbi1jYSZ0eXBlPTAmc2l0ZT1zcmMtY2Fu>
Cohen, Adam W. “Genesis of the Game.” The Complete Guide To Paintball. 2nd ed. Long Island City, NY, Hatherleigh Press, 2003. 2-4.
“Paintball.” The Canadian Oxford Dictionary. 1998 ed.

[one_quick_ta]

Keep it coming!!!!!

I cant thank everyone enough! i had a few guys in the house reading over my shoulder and they couldnt believe how many people stepped up to offer stats, stories and help! I really really hope that this goes through, believe me change comes slow but if i can just get my foot in we stand a chance

THANKS AO!

[Wicked_Silence]

Well I can't say for sure, but I've been in the the paintball subculture for over 13 years.

I do know that I've reffed at many fields, and all have the basics of safety for playing he game. Barrel socks, masks, field velocity, and of course, plain old rules. These practices are put into place so that injuries, and yes they do happen from time to time, are kept to a minimum. I can't think offhand as to where I read this piece of info, but paintball was rated a safer sport then cycling. We've had leaders of industry at fields where I've reffed so that they could do something that promoted teamwork. Paintball is a team game and it helps to build on that foundation.

Paintball is a great way to promote teamwork, helps build self-esteem, is a great way to get excercise and be outdoors (for those that play woodsball). Its also a very good way to reduce stress. It helps make friendships as well. Lots of people that really have nothing in common have formed great friendships, all because they met and talked at a paintball game.

Oh, and from my years of experience, I've reffed 9 MAJOR tournaments. The International Amateur Open (was played just north of Pittsburg, PN) and Skyball (played in the Toronto Ontario Skydome). I've seen thousands of players, and hundreds of games and in all those games, how many serious injuries did I see? 1, yes just 1 injury in all that time. Someone broke their leg while running thru a heavily wooded area. That kind of injury isn't paintball specific as I've seen worse with people just walking down a set of stairs and missing a step.

I have a 14 year old daughter that I am now just getting into the sport. I love her to death and I would never put her health or safety into jeopardy and I can say with absolute certainty that I have no qualms about her playing paintball. I also have a young son, that as soon as he is old enough and expresses interest in the sport, will be playing paintball along side his 'old man'.

I don't know if any of this helps or not, but take it as you will. Paintball is a very safe alternative considering what young people could be doing these days.

Edit - Most of the items you see in the papers these days about shooting homeless people or any of the other idiocies are usually commited by young people that have bought their marker at Walmart and are just looking for things to shoot at. Most have never even stepped onto an actual paintball field and are just out there doing it for kicks. Don't let a few bad apples spoil it for everyone else as those apples aren't even in the same basket as the rest of us. I mean, knives are used in a heck of a lot more violent crimes then a paintball marker, but I know that the old 'stick-in-the-mud' people making this a hard decision still use a knife everyday, to say, eat?

[gunangel]

something i just remembered. paintball has less injuries per year than bowling (not counting temporary welts). and paintball has one of the lowest death rates of any activity (more people die from vending machines a quarter of a year that's every 3 months, to all the known deaths caused in paintball).