Force feed loader not required

[flyingpootang]

First off I'd like to say welcome back to little_Ho since I' haven't seen around too much latley.

This is a follow up to the myth of automags without a powerfeed or force feed hopper have too much blow back, bobble the balls and create chops. When in actuality when a automag is fired it creates a vacuum and will suck the next ball into the breach......

try out an Gravity feed hopper and try it again.......

Mine worked fine like that too just does not like the ball detend. i have to use a force feed loader or i will shop the ball.......
I tried a Gravity 50 count hopper....does not work
A Revy .....does not work
a VL Evolution with x board 23BPS its working just fine...

SO my conclution the Mag is not really layed out for a ULE Pump more like a Powerfeed body Pump....

I agree. Too much blowback. My current Automag Pump is set up with powerfeed. I use an old 40 round loader.
The proof is in the pudding......
http://i537.photobucket.com/albums/ff333/flyingpootang/th_PICT3380.jpg (http://s537.photobucket.com/albums/ff333/flyingpootang/?action=view&current=PICT3380.flv)

[Spider-TW]

One more test... :)

Some day, try that with a ball in the breech so that back pressure from the ball can be thrown out of the argument as well.

I know when I used to chop balls in a power feed, I would get a nice spray of confetti shooting out the power feed window. With yellow paint, it made a nice flag for "shoot him now". :eek:

That, and the extra gas hog-edness that seems to happen when dry firing would indicate different air paths are possible.

[snoopay700]

One more test... :)

Some day, try that with a ball in the breech so that back pressure from the ball can be thrown out of the argument as well.

I know when I used to chop balls in a power feed, I would get a nice spray of confetti shooting out the power feed window. With yellow paint, it made a nice flag for "shoot him now". :eek:

That, and the extra gas hog-edness that seems to happen when dry firing would indicate different air paths are possible.
That's from chopping and there being a window for the paint to go through more than blowback. According to what cockerpunk (i believe) said the powerfeed was for the early mags but by the time they got to the level 7s they fixed the problem of blowback but people liked the powerfeed so they kept it.

[Watcher]

As I understand the automag was too fast and did NOT bobble the feedstack enough for a solid feed rate on a normal grav hopper and an angle-feed (there's a reason they call 'em "shake-n-shoots"). A pump gun is no problem because you are pumping it and thus bobbling the balls.

The powerfeed was made so you can have a taller ball stack and feed more reliably longer. Also one of the arguements was that if the balls got jostled they wouldn't pop back up the feed but rather bounce off the powerfeed plug and get redirected into the chamber.

Vertical feed would be a different story as it is working fully with gravity, not a redirected gravity, but at the time people liked sighting over the top of the marker (and some people still do, including myself).

I never knew what snoopay said, I just never really did reasearch on it or even speculated...

That is interesting that it got sucked in though. I would also like to see it done when firing a paintball.

[Spider-TW]

:argh: now I will have to test my short sleeve bolt against the long sleeve bolt, because it was the long sleeve one that put up the best spray which should have better 'suction'.

There was (still is) a problem with the mag being smooth and not shaking the hopper much. But the competition at the time was pumps and illustrators. An F-1 illustrator practically whips back and forth compared to a mag.

[2fast2smart]

I wonder if that applies to all mags, or if it's specific to that one, or how you set it up??

[211]

after seeing this, I had to try it out
I used a Minimag (powerfeed hopper left) body with a ReTro valve Level 7
my gun did not create suction, but there also was almost no blowback, the small piece of paper towel I used was only moved a slight amount out of position, definitely not enough to prevent a ball from loading

[Spider-TW]

Which bolt, foamie or no and does the sleeve extend to the end of the bolt? Not that I expect much difference, especially from the foamie.

[PumpMag]

Actually it create a vacuum and sucks the next ball into the breach.


That video really caught my attention, since I have a ULE body Pump Automag as well.

Your test demonstrates that a vacuum exists when using a piece of paper with
1) a ULE body Pump Automag
2) no feedneck
and
3) no gravityfeed hopper
4) Level 7 or Level 10? X-valve

Please try another test firing with
1) a ULE body Pump Automag
2) feedneck attached
and
3) gravityfeed hopper with 2 balls in the hopper
4) Level 7 Classic valve

I am interested to see the results.

[flyingpootang]

That video really caught my attention, since I have a ULE body Pump Automag as well.

Your test demonstrates that a vacuum exists when using a piece of paper with
1) a ULE body Pump Automag
2) no feedneck
and
3) no gravityfeed hopper
4) Level 7 or Level 10? X-valve

Please try another test firing with
1) a ULE body Pump Automag
2) feedneck attached
and
3) gravityfeed hopper with 2 balls in the hopper
4) Level 7 Classic valve

I am interested to see the results.

For you maybe, but for Clare I'm already working on it :rolleyes:

[2fast2smart]

I wonder if that applies to all mags, or if it's specific to that one, or how you set it up??
??

[Shane-O-Mac]

IIRC, the biggest problem with Mags chopping was due to the design of the PF plug. When they redesigned it with a parabolic curve it fed just fine. The old Classic RT I used many moons ago never chopped, this was before LX. A standard revy kept the balls coming for long strings of shots. It isnt as much of a problem as people made/making it out to be.

[Spider-TW]

IIRC, the biggest problem with Mags chopping was due to the design of the PF plug. When they redesigned it with a parabolic curve it fed just fine. The old Classic RT I used many moons ago never chopped, this was before LX. A standard revy kept the balls coming for long strings of shots. It isnt as much of a problem as people made/making it out to be.
True, but the first mags didn't have power feeds and the reasoning at the time was ball stack bobble. When my first mag went in for an upgrade and it came back with a power feed, I was shocked at that thing sticking off the side of my marker. :eek:

Another cause of bobble is a lost foamie, which a power feed helps isolate also. The best part is when you get a cracked or egg shaped ball that blows up; the mess catches at the PF and doesn't go back up to the loader.

[Shane-O-Mac]

My regular feed mags never had a problem either. I had a Center Flag frame and it would shoot at 9bps full auto with a revy. I truely have never had a chopping problem, unless I didnt trun the revy on, and shot a long string of paint.

Also the foamie never made a difference to me. I have shot mags with and without, never a problem. Even bolts that are supposed to have a foamie, works fine without it, even LX.

[Spider-TW]

For sure the only trouble I ever had was the feed plug. I only mention the foamies because the ball can roll back a little, if given an opportunity, allowing the next ball to sit slightly in front of it.

So, is the power feed a gimmick? Why was it sold? Was it really just to appease the closed bolt crowd? It never really caused trouble, but if it doesn't fix anything, how should it be classified?

[snoopay700]

My regular feed mags never had a problem either. I had a Center Flag frame and it would shoot at 9bps full auto with a revy. I truely have never had a chopping problem, unless I didnt trun the revy on, and shot a long string of paint.

Also the foamie never made a difference to me. I have shot mags with and without, never a problem. Even bolts that are supposed to have a foamie, works fine without it, even LX.
Only time i've chopped is when i had the gun tilted to the right so it wouldn't feed right with the powerfeed.