Paypal fees added/Forum rules question.

[tech-chan]

Im not trying to open up a can of worms, but I do think this is something that needs to be addressed.

I'm seeing so many posts with this in them: SP Shocker 350 + 4% paypal fee

I'm getting a little fedup with adding this up. I know the unspoken rule is that you offer what you think its worth, including paypal fees, but it's still quite annoying.

MCB has a rule about this, why should they have one over us?


8) No PayPal (or other payment processing system) % please
Do not make a sales price and then add that the buyer must pay an additional % to cover your PayPal (or other payment processing system) fees. Those fees are for the SELLER, not the BUYER. If you want to cover those standard selling/transaction fees please adjust your sales price accordingly before setting the price.
URL (http://www.mcarterbrown.com/forums/wtb/32610-buy-sell-trade-forum-rules-read-before-posting.html)

Thanks for reading. Just thought I'd throw this out here for consideration.

[MANN]

You can always use a money order if you dont like the fees.

[punkncat]

IIRC it is actually against the paypal TOS to pass the fee along to a buyer, at least openly that way.

[luke]

Nothing is free; but, wouldn’t you rather know what you’re paying for? One could easily hide it in the shipping and handling fees.

[luke]

IIRC it is actually against the paypal TOS to pass the fee along to a buyer, at least openly that way.

Not true last time I checked on it.

[MANN]

IMO it is 6 to half dozen. As long as the buyer specifies it is no big deal.

I usually give the buyer an option.

A paypal with credit card to abc@abc.com (add 4%)

B paypal with bank/paypal transfer to def@abc.com (dont have to add here)

C money order (dont have to add here)

You could make a rule that the seller cant state tha, and then the seller is going to give "discounts" for noncc paypal purchases.

[steve_81]

I think it is perfectly fine to ask the buyer to pay the Paypal fees.

[Emert426]

It is a sellers fee... If you choose to use money order the seller should eat it. Unless the amount being sent is over a few hundred bucks. Then I believe it should be split.

Asking either party to eat the fees on a large purchase is a bit ridiculous

[michbich]

If you don't agree with the deal, you can negociate or shop elsewhere.

[MANN]

If you don't agree with the deal, you can negociate or shop elsewhere.

that pretty much sums it up

[Chaos_Theory!]

A lot of you are missing the posters point. The fee isnt the issue (although its against paypal policy to charge buyers the fee) but rather the fact that they ask you to add it in rather then just asking a price that includes the fees.

[Ruler_Mark]

Luke & punkncat,, It is illegal however you can add on a service charge for using paypal but you cannot call it a fee for using paypal. Just gotta watch out on the terminology to get around the TOS.

[BiNumber3]

well, the way i see it on the seller side, the paypal fee is something the seller pays for in order to get paypal's services: fast transaction and paypal's buyer/seller protection (and yes the protection works if u go by the book, keep yer shipping info n have proof).

as for the buyer, if u dont like the additional cost, offer the price u'd wanna pay total n see if the seller agrees, if not, then u can either use a different method of payment or hope someone else has the item without a +paypal fee.

[Chronobreak]

i think it isnt a problem here, as i understand it its basicly paypals way of saying if you add fees your not eligible for protection.

so dont buy from anyone "adding" fees

now if someone has a set price and wants a MO, but you insist that you paypal you should be responsible for fees.

imo by adding a rule its just one more thing that someone is expected to police

[luke]

Luke & punkncat,, It is illegal however you can add on a service charge for using paypal but you cannot call it a fee for using paypal. Just gotta watch out on the terminology to get around the TOS.


It is not illegal, but they don’t want you to do it.

If I remember correctly it states that if you do, you loose your seller protection under the PayPal rules. I charge openly for the fee mainly as a courtesy, I can easily put it somewhere else. But that would mean everyone pays the fee even if they don’t pay via PayPal. Who pays for the money order if one opts to go that route? OK, so it costs less, but for me it’s more of a hassle having to make the time to purchase one.

If someone can give a direct link to PayPal stating it is “illegal” I’ll apologize make adjustments to my billing invoices.

:)

[MANN]

fast transaction and paypal's buyer/seller protection (and yes the protection works if u go by the book, keep yer shipping info n have proof).


Please explain to me what protection that paypal offers. IMO paypal's protection policy is a joke. It does not secure the buyer or seller.

[ElPanda]

I think its a great rule the only reason I could see sellers hating it is because they are too lazy to calculate it

as a rule I always just add 10 to the price I really want and it saves everybody the trouble, makes the transaction go smoother

[Steelrat]

The use of paypal is a convenience for the seller, allowing them to get their payment immediately. Why they turn it around and try and nail the buyer with it is beyond me. I personally don't charge extra for using paypal, just because I know the reason for the charge, and if it truly bugged me I'd just specify that I'd only take a money order.

If someone lists their sale with additional paypal fees, I just ignore their ad and move on to another one. But that's just me.

[Ruler_Mark]

It is not illegal, but they don’t want you to do it.

If I remember correctly it states that if you do, you loose your seller protection under the PayPal rules. I charge openly for the fee mainly as a courtesy, I can easily put it somewhere else. But that would mean everyone pays the fee even if they don’t pay via PayPal. Who pays for the money order if one opts to go that route? OK, so it costs less, but for me it’s more of a hassle having to make the time to purchase one.

If someone can give a direct link to PayPal stating it is “illegal” I’ll apologize make adjustments to my billing invoices.

:)

I meant legal/illegal as in breaking paypal's TOS. If you break thier TOS they can freeze your account and hold your funds for 6 months until they release it to you. During that time all chargebacks no matter are auto won by the buyer.

[pyrodragon]

let's look at it this way, when you use your credit card or debit card at walmart, walmart is charge a percentage for the processing the transaction. this cost is thrown in the cost of the product and don't show up on your sales ticket. i use paypal, but i don't use the crebitcard/debit card to pay for items, i always use bank transfer because i know it doesn't charge the seller a fee. i have had to agrue with sellers over this because they don't know better. i also have sold stuff and had paypal used, as a seller, i figure i will eat the cost of the paypal fees as part of doing business, but i ask my buyers to try to use bank transfer instead of credit card/debit card. as i see it losing 4 percent on an item i'm selling doesn't bother me.

[MANN]

. i use paypal, but i don't use the crebitcard/debit card to pay for items, i always use bank transfer because i know it doesn't charge the seller a fee. i have had to agrue with sellers over this because they don't know better.

not true.

There are many types of paypal accounts

1 free. It is free to recieve money and send money as many times as you want via paypal/bank transfer. In this account you can accept payments by cc, but only ~3 a month, and it charges you ~ 5-6%

2 upgraded (still free tho) it is free to send money, but all incoming funds are charged 3.2% + .30 per transaction. It doesnt matter what type of money they sent (bank transfer or cc)

The only way to get around all the bs is to have 2 accounts.

[luke]

I meant legal/illegal as in breaking paypal's TOS. If you break thier TOS they can freeze your account and hold your funds for 6 months until they release it to you. During that time all chargebacks no matter are auto won by the buyer.

Can you give me a link? I think the "rule" is being over exaggerated.

[luke]

let's look at it this way, when you use your credit card or debit card at walmart, walmart is charge a percentage for the processing the transaction. this cost is thrown in the cost of the product and don't show up on your sales ticket. i use paypal, but i don't use the crebitcard/debit card to pay for items, i always use bank transfer because i know it doesn't charge the seller a fee. i have had to agrue with sellers over this because they don't know better. i also have sold stuff and had paypal used, as a seller, i figure i will eat the cost of the paypal fees as part of doing business, but i ask my buyers to try to use bank transfer instead of credit card/debit card. as i see it losing 4 percent on an item i'm selling doesn't bother me.

The seller is always charged a fee regardless of how "you" pay. PP wants you to pay via bank transfer so "they" are not charged for collecting payment from you credit card company.

[halB]

I don't get it, how hard is it to connect pp to a bank account? It takes a day, that's it!

[spwz99]

Can you give me a link? I think the "rule" is being over exaggerated.

Section IV, Item 5.
No Surcharges. Under Visa, MasterCard, Discover and American Express regulations and the laws of several states, including California, merchants may not charge a fee to the buyer for accepting credit card payments (often called a "surcharge"). You agree that you will not impose a surcharge or any other fee for accepting PayPal as payment. This restriction does not prevent you from imposing a handling fee in connection with the sale of goods or services, as long as the handling fee does not operate as a surcharge (in other words, the handling fee for transactions paid through PayPal may not be higher than the handling fee for transactions paid through other payment methods). Nor does this restriction apply to Pound-denominated transactions by sellers residing in the United Kingdom listing items for sale on a UK-based website.
(Emphasis added)

http://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=p/gen/terms-outside

[MANN]

looks like we will have to put a "4% handling fee" on all sales. :p

[teufelhunden]

looks like we will have to put a "4% handling fee" on all sales. :p

But it will have to be on all sales, not just paypal sales.

[luke]

Section IV, Item 5.
No Surcharges. Under Visa, MasterCard, Discover and American Express regulations and the laws of several states, including California, merchants may not charge a fee to the buyer for accepting credit card payments (often called a "surcharge"). You agree that you will not impose a surcharge or any other fee for accepting PayPal as payment. This restriction does not prevent you from imposing a handling fee in connection with the sale of goods or services, as long as the handling fee does not operate as a surcharge (in other words, the handling fee for transactions paid through PayPal may not be higher than the handling fee for transactions paid through other payment methods). Nor does this restriction apply to Pound-denominated transactions by sellers residing in the United Kingdom listing items for sale on a UK-based website.
(Emphasis added)

http://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=p/gen/terms-outside

Thanks, I never saw that before. I withdraw previous comments.

I no longer will charge a PayPal fee, but will change my policies to include shipping and handling fee based on your total order.

Thanks for the info.

[luke]

By the way, I'm not sure where the 4% figure came from but it reads like this:
$0.00 USD - $3,000.00 USD 2.9% + $0.30 USD

Fees change over that amount.

[MANN]

By the way, I'm not sure where the 4% figure came from but it reads like this:
$0.00 USD - $3,000.00 USD 2.9% + $0.30 USD

Fees change over that amount.


yes, but the free accounts charge more than that. iirc ~ 5%

I personally charge 4% because most of the payments I accept are less than 30 which is less than the additional .30

[luke]

Got it..