..X-valve reactivity...

[malJohann]

I've got a couple of questions that I'm sure haven't been asked exactly the way I'm going to, so instead of pointing me to the search feature (which I've used), please just answer.

As the title says, it's about X-valve reactivity.

1. I've read about sweet-spotting the valve, which basically comes down to finding the minimum pressure at which it will bounce, right? If so, say it bounces at 950psi, would it operate any slower at 1000psi, or would I just not be able to shoot as deep into the tank?

2. I've also read about the X-valve only being properly broken in after about 6 cases of paint, which is 12,000 paintballs. When the valve is broken in, does the pressure where the sweet-spot's at come down to a lower pressure, for example from 950psi to 850psi?

[211]

1. the more pressure, the more RT you will get, your mag will still shoot as deep into the tank as usual, you will start to loose reactivity as the pressure lowers

2. Generally the pressure for the sweetspot will come down as the valve gets broken in, as well as the lvl x needing to be retuned

[Spider-TW]

The sweetspot is just the amount of pressure (pull) on the trigger that lets the marker fire reactive-ly (is that a Bushism?), not too hard for the RT effect but enough to pull the trigger. It's not really balanced against anything on the regulator.

As the power tube and on/off seals wear in, the pressure that you can get the marker to RT gets lower because the friction forces are lower. However, the rate (bps) is mostly in the pressure and flow of the bottle regulator. As the inlet pressure goes up on a slow RT of around 12-13 bps at ~800psi (for instance), the rate will increase with the pressure to around 19 bps at ~1000psi. Around there (or more) the bottle regulator hits its max flow rate and even though you show higher pressure when not firing, the regulator can't supply enough air to push the marker faster.

[malJohann]

Thanks for the 100% relevant replies. So, basically getting bounce on a 1000psi preset- is just as easy as getting bounce with an adjustable bottle regulator? And running a higher pressure than what is required for bounce is not detrimental for the valve over time (as long as it's not something crazy like over 1200psi or even 3000psi directly)?

Now. The reason I'm asking all this is because I want to order a CP Air preset with special instruction to make it a 1000psi preset. According to what I've heard it's good air systems and with that tiny regulator screwing directly into an ASA it makes for a tight setup. Has anyone here done an order like that through them, and if so, what was your experience?

[michbich]

Thanks for the 100% relevant replies. So, basically getting bounce on a 1000psi preset- is just as easy as getting bounce with an adjustable bottle regulator?

Yes. The output pressure doesn't change wether it's preset or adjustable. It's like comparing a ton a brick with a ton of feathers...it's still a ton. Ok, bad example because the volume wouldn't be the same, but you get the idea. lol

And running a higher pressure than what is required for bounce is not detrimental for the valve over time (as long as it's not something crazy like over 1200psi or even 3000psi directly)?

As far as i know, no.


Underlined

[Watcher]

And running a higher pressure than what is required for bounce is not detrimental for the valve over time (as long as it's not something crazy like over 1200psi or even 3000psi directly)?


The valve itself is rated to 3000psi, if you meet or exceed that you are likely to open the blow-off valve in the valve body. Other than that, it'll handle what you can shoot through it no problem. Just make sure your reg is adjusted for the higher pressure or it will also release it's blow-off... If anything the o-rings will need replacing quicker but mearly for the fact that you will be shooting more.

Zak Vetter made a few videos of a RT classic hooked directly to an unregulated scuba tank which was pushing over 2000psi. He used it to test the Halo aftermarket boards and the Q-loader for feeding 35+ bps.

The higher the pressure, the easier it is to sweetspot the trigger due to a larger expanse of the sweet-spot. For example, if the trigger pulls at 2 pounds of force and returns with 4 pounds, you can sweetspot anywhere between 2-4 pounds. But, if the trigger trips at 2 pounds (it will always trip the same) but returns at 7 pounds (idk if it actually returns with that great of force but it helps to understand the concept) then you have anywhere between 2-7 pounds of pull to play with.
Getting a fast or slow sweetspot with a range of 2 pounds take minute fractions of adjustment. A range of 5 pounds gives you plenty of room to play around and balance the trigger.

That being said, I have sweetspotted my RT at ~20cps with a preset Crossfire tank outputting about 800psi. I know 850 is the standard but when I ran it on a RT classic and had a guage on the rail it always read 800. Either my guage is off or my tank is a little weak.

But anyways, the pressure doesn't affect the recharge rate as much as you would think. I'm sure it helps but mainly it just increases the sweet-spot.

[malJohann]

The valve itself is rated to 3000psi, if you meet or exceed that you are likely to open the blow-off valve in the valve body...

Has anyone ever ran 3000psi directly to the valve? If so, what was the effect?


..I have sweetspotted my RT at ~20cps with a preset Crossfire tank outputting about 800psi. I know 850 is the standard...

It's good to hear that you could achieve 20cps on a 800psi preset Crossfire. Apparently Crossfire and CP Air systems are as good as presets get.

I sent an e-mail to Custom Products yesterday inquiring whether I can special order a 1000psi system from them. Got a reply stating that their 850psi regulator can be adjusted via the internal spring to achieve higher pressures. I sent them another question asking up to where it can be adjusted and will likely get the answer tomorrow. Does this now mean that their preset- is actually an adjustable regulator or am I missing something?

[michbich]

Has anyone ever ran 3000psi directly to the valve? If so, what was the effect?


Actualy, Zak tried it at 3k psi to reach 35bps. You can search for the video on youtube probably.

[Spider-TW]

You can change the output of an 'adjustable' reg without taking it apart.

It's like the difference between having a 'velocity adjuster' and having to put shims under a spring and reassemble your marker to adjust the velocity (if you've ever had to do such a thing ;) )

[Watcher]

Actualy, Zak tried it at 3k psi to reach 35bps. You can search for the video on youtube probably.

The scuba tank he attached it to had 2200psi in it. I don't believe it is on Youtube but you can get it of Zak's site.

[Tym]

This is the info I was looking for..

I'm looking to get a custom reg built for me by ninja. Around 1200 - 1400 PSI..

What would I have to do to prepare the mag for this much pressure?

[athomas]

This is the info I was looking for..

I'm looking to get a custom reg built for me by ninja. Around 1200 - 1400 PSI..

What would I have to do to prepare the mag for this much pressure?Make sure you have good fittings and braided steel hoses connecting the valve to the ASA or forgrip.

[Tym]

Make sure you have good fittings and braided steel hoses connecting the valve to the ASA or forgrip.

What is standard macro rated for?

I know the hose it rated at 1000psi, but they make this clear hose that's rated for 2500psi.

What are the fittings rated at?

[vf-xx]

What is standard macro rated for?

I know the hose it rated at 1000psi, but they make this clear hose that's rated for 2500psi.

What are the fittings rated at?

Honestly, I wouldn't use Macro up that high. I don't trust the connections.

[athomas]

Parker macro line is rated 625psi working pressure and 2500 burst pressure. Most macro is lower than that. Many sellers sell based on burst rating not working pressure rating. The burst rating gets lower as the line gets older and scratched. The fittings vary from manufacturer. If you don't know the rating, don't assume that a metal fitting will hold a high pressure. Some cheap fittings are not rated very high.

[malJohann]

I would use steel braided or remote line for pressure higher than 1000psi. I've run my mag on pressure between 1200psi and 1800psi while testing through a remote line with slide check and QD without any problems at all. The remote line I have is rated for 3000psi as printed on the coiled hose itself.

[Spider-TW]

The black nylon hose from airsoldier.com is rated for 1000psi working, 3000 burst, but it doesn't seal in the fitting very well at lower pressures and temperatures. The parker hose seals very well, but like athomas says, it is rated lower (which is why it seals well). The nylon likes to leak for about a minute when it first gases up at 800 psi. For regular RT use, I still go with the steel lines.

[Tym]

Just an Update.. I've installed a Max-flo reg on my tank. It's doing quite well..
It's outputting 1400 PSI Max and the Macro is holding no problem..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=so7dMhj-8jY&feature=channel_page

I captured a second of audio, slowed it down and counted 27 BPS.

[Ando]

Very nice bro. I've got a 3rd gen Max-flo and Armogeddon both running macro. They work very well and rock the RT.