Emag valve on/off doesn't trigger sear

[pk5]

Hi everyone

Right now i have an emag valve where the on/off doesn't work properly. It just doesn't want to push down on the sear. When first air up it will push down on the sear once, but not all the way, i have to really squeeze on the trigger to make it fire once. And then it seem like the on/off pin got stuck after that and refuse to move.

I put in another emag valve that i have, and it work great, so it is just the on/off on this one.

What should i do? I checked the oring and they seemed ok, the oring that goes around the quad oring seem to be a bit too loose, and when i try to remove the on/off it got stuck back in the valve. Is that normal? Or should i get an oring and change that?

Thanks

[pk5]

Also does anyone know the name of the oring? I couldn't find it on the airgun.com website to buy some, am i looking in the wrong place?

Also does the emag valve use the same repair kit as the rt kit?

Thanks

[secretweaponevan]

Although this first sounded like bolt stick, by your description, I don't think it is.

Emag on/off pins are shorter than RT on/off pins. Compare your two on/off pin lengths.

Mech mags (not micromags) should have an on/off pin length of .750".

If that isn't it, it would have to be bolt stick (push on bolt with a sqeegie to test) or an impeded sear.

[pk5]

So all emag valve would need this on/off pin?

http://store.airgundesignsusa.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=catalog.prodInfo&productID=395&categoryID=24


And if the bolt is sticking, does it prevent the on/off from being pushed down toward the sear?

Thanks

[secretweaponevan]

So all emag valve would need this on/off pin?

http://store.airgundesignsusa.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=catalog.prodInfo&productID=395&categoryID=24


And if the bolt is sticking, does it prevent the on/off from being pushed down toward the sear?

Thanks

That is the pin that I suspect you have now, which is too short for a mech mag (.712" is needed if the valve is mounted on Emag lowers). If you have a mech mag, you need a .750" length pin. I'm not sure if the length needed is different when using a quad o-ring.

Bolt stick won't let the front of the sear rise which won't let the trigger pin come out to meet the trigger. Test for this by pusing on the bolt with a squeegie to see if it goes "click" and the trigger rod comes out. If it is bolt stick, your on/off pin is probably fine.

[pk5]

Ok, thanks


I will check that later today regarding the bolt stick. As of right now i have a complete emag valve mounted on an emag lower.

[pk5]

Ok

It seem as if i am having major bolt stick issues again.

Which spring should i use? I have one silver one and one red one and a cut silver one that came with the valve.

I already tried different carriers, but i have to push back on the bolt to get the sear to activate.

Should i keep trying different combination of oring and carrier?

[secretweaponevan]

Ok

It seem as if i am having major bolt stick issues again.

Which spring should i use? I have one silver one and one red one and a cut silver one that came with the valve.

I already tried different carriers, but i have to push back on the bolt to get the sear to activate.

Should i keep trying different combination of oring and carrier?

Yes, this is a carrier issue.

Remove all shims.
Use the same white o-ring moving to larger and larger carriers until you find the largest carrier that doesn't leak.

[pk5]

Which spring should i use? The uncut one? Right now i am testing it with the red spring, because the uncut one cause bolt leak on most of the carrier that i tried.



So far i have tried 4 different orings with a combination of about 4 different carrier.

And if i go to the one before leaking, then i get a bolt stick ( have to push back the bolt and it click), if i go to the leaking carrier, then it wouldn't fire, and just leak.

If i go to too large a carrier, should it keep firing while leaking?

I did increase/decrease the velocity after each combination but it is still giving me problem.

Any though?

[Ruler_Mark]

Is the tank you are using a non-hp one? is it low on air ie <1k?


take the on off out the 2 top orings there? in one piece?

do you have a caliper?


I got your quote thing on mmm lets try to resolve it here first.

[pk5]

I have a cross fire tank and the gage is currently measuring the output at 800 psi.

What do you mean by take the oring out of the on/off? Do you mean the oring and the quad oring? They are still in one piece, even though both seem to be very loose.

I do not have a caliper right now, but when i went to the local paintball shop today and compare my on/off pin to the one that they have in stock .75, mine is still shorter than their on/off

[BigEvil]

I recently had my friends emag to repair, and the rubber quad oring had ether frozen or dried out causing the pin to stick. Anytime you get some pin stick replace the black quad and the white outer orings and of course lube them.

If you do not have the correct pin in there, the gun will do some weird things. Unless it is a very long one (.750") the gun should still fire, although VERY slow.

Next time the pin hangs up, try to push the bolt back in with a squeegee to see if it is getting stuck.



**Have you chrono'd this gun recently?

[pk5]

I have not chrono it since i received a few weeks ago in a trade.

Right now the quad oring seem to flake off a really tiny piece, so i'll order some quad oring and start with that. What is the name of the other oring that is outside the quad - oring?


To summarize the symptom so far:

i. The on/off got sticky and refuse to move up/down to activate the sear
ii. After a few rebuild/relube of the on/off now it work fine and trigger the sear
iii. But now i have major bolt stick, doesn't matter which carrier or orings i tried, it still either leak or bolt stick. ( Can it fire even if the carrier is oversize? As in it is leaking while firing?)

Right now i am waiting for some more oring carrier from MANN and gonna try the carrier/oring part again.

Since i am ordering stuff from AGD, what else should i get? Which rebuild kit will work for an emag?

Thanks

[secretweaponevan]

Just so we know what parts you need to order:

When the bolt "sticks" and you push on it with a squeegie, does it go "CLICK" and then can fire?

[pk5]

It only click after i push it with squeegee, but cannot fire. If i push on the trigger again i can feel that it is pushing against the on/off, but the bolt will only go forward a little bit, and then restart the whole push back with a squeegee again.

Right now when i pull on the trigger i can feel the force of the on/off but that is about all. Is it possible for the quadring/oring to be too loose that the on/off is actually pushing against that instead of against the pin inside the valve?

Edit: also every time that i remove the on/off the quadoring and the one outside of it always end up being stuck on the valve and i have to get it out with a pick.

PS: if anyone have some quad oring that they can drop in the mail, hopefully i can get it by saturday it would be great. I was hoping to use this emag for the big game, but it doesn't look like it now.

[BigEvil]

I have not chrono it since i received a few weeks ago in a trade.

Right now the quad oring seem to flake off a really tiny piece, so i'll order some quad oring and start with that. What is the name of the other oring that is outside the quad - oring?


To summarize the symptom so far:

i. The on/off got sticky and refuse to move up/down to activate the sear
ii. After a few rebuild/relube of the on/off now it work fine and trigger the sear
iii. But now i have major bolt stick, doesn't matter which carrier or orings i tried, it still either leak or bolt stick. ( Can it fire even if the carrier is oversize? As in it is leaking while firing?)

Right now i am waiting for some more oring carrier from MANN and gonna try the carrier/oring part again.

Since i am ordering stuff from AGD, what else should i get? Which rebuild kit will work for an emag?

Thanks

If the quad oring fell apart it was probably dry rotted and most likely the cause of your problem.

You want this guy

Quad oring 4 pk (http://store.airgundesignsusa.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=catalog.prodInfo&productID=195&categoryID=24)

and this guy

On/off Top outer oring pt#123 (http://store.airgundesignsusa.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=catalog.prodInfo&productID=26&categoryID=23)

[pk5]

Ok, i placed an order for that, plus all the other parts to rebuild a level 10.

Anything else i should try in the mean time?

Thanks

[secretweaponevan]

Ok, i placed an order for that, plus all the other parts to rebuild a level 10.

Anything else i should try in the mean time?

Thanks

As long as you have a variety of carriers, you won't need a full level 10 kit. Probably just a few carrier o-rings, perhaps the backing washer, and maybe a bolt spring or two if you feel yours are worn out.

Never hurts to get some foamies if you use them.

[Smoothice]

If you don't get this thing working by clareball just bring it with you. Between all the techs in our group we will have it up and running in no time.

[Smoothice]

So you have 2 emag valves correct?

1 works, the other doesn't. This proves that your emag lowers aren't the problem. Which is great news. So it must be the valve.

Have you tried swapping out parts.

For example: Take the on/off and on/off orings out of the one that works and put it into the one that doesn't work.

See what happens. If the bad valve still doesn't work with a known to be working on/off then that probably isn't your problem.

Keeping the working on/off parts in the bad valve now switch out the level 10 parts. Use all the parts from the working valve and put them on the non working valve. When I say all I mean all. Same carrier, shims, spring, bolt, etc.

See if it works. If it still doesn't work then you may want to try cranking up the velocity to see if that does any good. Throw some oil in your asa and run some shots through it.

If it does work after swapping out the parts then at least you know what piece of the puzzle is broken.

[pk5]

Ok, i after trying everything and i found a lot of quad oring at my local seals shop, i found out the problem.

It turn out that the on/off pin that i have in one of the valve is longer than regular emag pin. It seem to be an RT pin that the previous user just stuck in there before selling it to me.

Is there any temporary or easy fix to get the emag working? Or do i need to replace the on/off pin with an emag pin?

Thanks

[pk5]

Can the RT on/off pin be trimmed with a dremel blade and then sanded smooth as a temporary fix?

[athomas]

Yes, you can shorten the pin. Make sure you do the small end, not the large one. Another less permanent fix is to add a couple of level 10 shims in between the on-off halves. It will do the same thing as shortening the pin.

[Smoothice]

Can the RT on/off pin be trimmed with a dremel blade and then sanded smooth as a temporary fix?

just grab a metal file. Give it a few rubs and give it a try. If you have some calipers it will help alot.

Make sure that you keep the top level. You don't want it slanted.

I had to do this once as well and it worked out fine. I used my dremel and it took off a lot of metal very fast. So be careful using a dremel.

[pk5]

A rough and fine grit sand paper should be fine then right?j


UPdate: 5 minutes with a grinding wheel and it's all fixed

Thanks everyone