the "pneu" Emag (idea)

[eXo_oUtSiDeR]

So i had an idea the other day but was not completely sure if it was possible so i was gonna run it past you guys before ii actually started.

I love the idea of Emags,i love how you can switch to mech mode and basically the overall look of Emag lowers and plus its AGD so you know it must be good . The only thing that drives me crazy about them is their weight due to that huge *** battery which is needed to power that huge solenoid, and their lack of speed( i think xmod is capped at 15bps,correct me if im wrong).

So what i was going to try to do is remove the outdated electronics of the emag and sleeper E-Pneu it, but still keeping the feature of being to switch to mech mode. I would have to mill the hell out of the inside of the grip frame because there is a huge divider separating the solenoid from the board. I also would solve the weight problem because i wouldn't need the huge agd battery to run it. I was thinking of running a universal T-board, mac 34 solenoid, m-pa3 and a tickler lpr.

I also had another idea. I was going to make it a warp emag, keep the agd battery, remove the board fom the warp, and intelle it after i hooked the emag battery directly to the warp motor. It would solve the warp speed problem. I would also switch out the emag board out with a UTB and a mac noid and a mpa3.

Lemme know if this would work, If it has been done before could you send me a link to the thread? THANKS AO

[AirAssault]

Or lift a few weights so the "heavy" emag won't weigh you down...... There is nothing out dated about the Emag electronics. With the different software updates the thing will shoot as fast or faster than anything out there. Xmod it isn't capped at 15 bps. Pretty sure most of what you're wanting to do has been done... Of course if you pnue it, then you won't have the ability to use manual mode and pnue mode at the flip of a switch. I would go with the lifting weights idea. Looking up links now....


So i had an idea the other day but was not completely sure if it was possible so i was gonna run it past you guys before ii actually started.

I love the idea of Emags,i love how you can switch to mech mode and basically the overall look of Emag lowers and plus its AGD so you know it must be good . The only thing that drives me crazy about them is their weight due to that huge *** battery which is needed to power that huge solenoid, and their lack of speed( i think xmod is capped at 15bps,correct me if im wrong).

So what i was going to try to do is remove the outdated electronics of the emag and sleeper E-Pneu it, but still keeping the feature of being to switch to mech mode. I would have to mill the hell out of the inside of the grip frame because there is a huge divider separating the solenoid from the board. I also would solve the weight problem because i wouldn't need the huge agd battery to run it. I was thinking of running a universal T-board, mac 34 solenoid, m-pa3 and a tickler lpr.

I also had another idea. I was going to make it a warp emag, keep the agd battery, remove the board fom the warp, and intelle it after i hooked the emag battery directly to the warp motor. It would solve the warp speed problem. I would also switch out the emag board out with a UTB and a mac noid and a mpa3.

Lemme know if this would work, If it has been done before could you send me a link to the thread? THANKS AO

[eXo_oUtSiDeR]

lol wow heavy as in comparison to more current guns, plus there would be a warp feed on there. If I did not ule it you gotta admit that would be a heavy set up lol :p Also maybe the x-mod software is capped at 31 bps (my bad i dont know where i got the 31 from) how fast can that dated solenoid fully cycle? because that is what truly limits the speed of an emag.

[koleah]

I've actually thought about this a lot. I think you could probably find a pneumatic ram/piston and use that to replace the emags solenoid. You'd keep the emag sear, but take the magnet/steel rod off the end of it and attached that straight to the new ram. Then just find a way to use the mech/E switch to either control the flow of the air (if you straight-pneu it), or to turn your new board on and off (if you E-pneu it). That way you could keep the mech mode, but also have the optional/new Pneu mode with the flip of a switch.

You might have to go E-pneu so that you can use the magnet/HES for a switch since I don't know that there would be a way to cram a little 2-way valve in there along with your new ram. But ya never know.


As for heavy, I do agree with you. The one thing I don't like about my X-mag is that its a bit heavy compared to a ULE-body/ULE-rail/carbon-fiber-grip/bike-foregrip. Especially for those longer games, weight eventually does become an issue; trying to tote a full X with battery powered hopper and HPA tank eventually does start to wear on the arms.

[AirAssault]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDAUzg2itAM

Seems the old out dated solenoid is working pretty good to me.
Anything above 15 bps is just to show how big (or small) your wee wee is so what's the point? You go out to a rec field and start trying to sling at 20 bps and, at least around here, you will be booted or made to lower bps. I say go for it though, what the heck. Making my ego mags was part of the coolness factor for me any way. I have shot a warped emag with 88ci tank, it is heavy but.... I bet she could handle it.
http://inlinethumb19.webshots.com/43090/2760403840041328042S600x600Q85.jpg (http://outdoors.webshots.com/photo/2760403840041328042yTqVoh)

[eXo_oUtSiDeR]

I've actually thought about this a lot. I think you could probably find a pneumatic ram/piston and use that to replace the emags solenoid. You'd keep the emag sear, but take the magnet/steel rod off the end of it and attached that straight to the new ram. Then just find a way to use the mech/E switch to either control the flow of the air (if you straight-pneu it), or to turn your new board on and off (if you E-pneu it). That way you could keep the mech mode, but also have the optional/new Pneu mode with the flip of a switch.

You might have to go E-pneu so that you can use the magnet/HES for a switch since I don't know that there would be a way to cram a little 2-way valve in there along with your new ram. But ya never know.


As for heavy, I do agree with you. The one thing I don't like about my X-mag is that its a bit heavy compared to a ULE-body/ULE-rail/carbon-fiber-grip/bike-foregrip. Especially for those longer games, weight eventually does become an issue; trying to tote a full X with battery powered hopper and HPA tank eventually does start to wear on the arms.

yup i totally agree with what you are saying. :) I was thinking of using the hess sensor from the emag and somehow make it work with the universal t board ( or another board if needed) I was thinking of basically switching the emag internals with e-pneu internals as if i was making a ego-mag or angel mag or something. I was thinking of replacing the emag solenoid with the mpa3 in the same position but the only problem is that the solenoid pulls and the mpa3 pushes so i will have too find someway around that :confused: but i have a couple ideas that i think might work. :rolleyes:

[eXo_oUtSiDeR]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDAUzg2itAM

Seems the old out dated solenoid is working pretty good to me.
Anything above 15 bps is just to show how big (or small) your wee wee is so what's the point? You go out to a rec field and start trying to sling at 20 bps and, at least around here, you will be booted or made to lower bps. I say go for it though, what the heck. Making my ego mags was part of the coolness factor for me any way. I have shot a warped emag with 88ci tank, it is heavy but.... I bet she could handle it.
http://inlinethumb19.webshots.com/43090/2760403840041328042S600x600Q85.jpg (http://outdoors.webshots.com/photo/2760403840041328042yTqVoh)

LMAO wow dude was that all really necessary? :rolleyes:

Of course i realize that shooting anywhere probably over even 13 bps is complete overkill and i would never do it in a real game but still its nice to know that you could if you wanted to. This project was completely based on my desire to have a non-standard possibly more updated emag. and i totally realize that emags are extremely awesome and fast stock but i want something more original and perhaps lighter and faster lol? :rolleyes:


Anything above 15 bps is just to show how big (or small) your wee wee is
And trust me it's plenty big ;)

[AirAssault]

LMAO wow dude was that all really necessary? :rolleyes:

Of course i realize that shooting anywhere probably over even 13 bps is complete overkill and i would never do it in a real game but still its nice to know that you could if you wanted to. This project was completely based on my desire to have a non-standard possibly more updated emag. and i totally realize that emags are extremely awesome and fast stock but i want something more original and perhaps lighter and faster lol? :rolleyes:


And trust me it's plenty big ;)


LoL. I told you to go for it.... as far as the pic, don't be mad if she is more buff ;)

[BenoitOWN]

What is your hopper? If it an Halo B you can save 6oz from the battery that go inside the hopper by buying Chris Nearchos adapter and use your halo B by the marker battery. He is also working on a more powerfull battery so you can look into that.

[thefool]

Err dated soleniod?
I know that there have been amazing advances in digital electronics and miniaturization as of late, but im pretty sure solenoids haven't changed significantly in a while.

[eXo_oUtSiDeR]

What is your hopper? If it an Halo B you can save 6oz from the battery that go inside the hopper by buying Chris Nearchos adapter and use your halo B by the marker battery. He is also working on a more powerfull battery so you can look into that.
yeah i have a halo b, ill look into that thanks!

[DamianTC]

lightweight guns are for speedball, why? cause they think they are getting an advantage. About 10 years ago, I was invited on a semi-pro team while I was using a VM-68.. go figure with the weight..........

[RavishingEddie]

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j35/RavishingEddie/Outside-1.jpg

my emag9 is half the weight of an emag and rips with the emag solenoid. :clap:

[Hilltop Customs]

Err dated soleniod?
I know that there have been amazing advances in digital electronics and miniaturization as of late, but im pretty sure solenoids haven't changed significantly in a while.

that is exactly what I was thinking.....didnt know a coil and a magnet could become dated so quickly. Wonder what new technology they have been replaced with :confused:


Anyway, maintaining the mechanical aspect of the mag while also having the ep features is going to be difficult. Easiest way I can think to do it would be use a sear extension like the G-Force frames. Either that or mount the ram right against the rail, above the sear rod. I would not try to replace the emag noid with a ram for 2 reasons....1st the ram will have to "pull" on the sear, this means the ram will need 2 o-rings. 2nd, since its permanently attached to the sear, the ram will move when you pull the mechanical trigger, increasing the pull "weight" of the mechanical trigger. Your much better off with a "bump" style ram, like everyone currently uses.....just need to get it out of the way of the trigger rod.


Activation of the EP feature is pretty much limited to HES or break beam since you need post travel for the mechanical aspect.

If it was me, I would try for EP/pneumatic backup......sounds more difficult, but it really shouldnt be. Or you could just take the easy way out and use 2 grip frames. :cheers:

[Enemy]

the only advantage to going pnue would be wight savings bye getting rid of the battery pack, but if you are going to warp it than you would end up saving more weight if you went with the x-power mod, it runs power to a warp and a hopper off of the guns battery.

just do a search for that instead because the front battery pack is lighter than 6-8 AAs

[eXo_oUtSiDeR]

I didnt means so much that the technology of the solenoid was dated but the technology of using the solenoid to act directly on the sear and pull it (as a sear tripper) is dated in my opinion, or at least it's a bad technology. :/ but thats just my opinion.

[211]

The solenoid directly acting on the sear is a much simpler system, and therefore fewer things to go wrong, than an EP setup
I think the only things you would gain from this over a straight Emag would be in weight reduction, and even that would wind up being slight once all the EP components had been added

[Watcher]

Stock E-mag with the SS body, CP barrel, and sight-rail is just under 5lbs... The warp is about 15oz (so about a pound), and hopper can range from ounces to a pound.
Batteries (9vs, AAs, etc) are irrelivant.
A carbon fiber tank is about a pound.

At the most you are running a 8lb setup. Which isn't too bad in my opinion.

If you use a ULE body, a lighter barrel, an X-valve, and a light hopper then you can lower that to like 6 pounds which still isn't bad considering a modern electro with a tank and a heavy hopper is about 4-5 pounds.

But I'll agree that the E-mag is heavy. My all SS RTPro with the rails, stock barrel, a warp, and a hopper on it weighs about as much as my friend's e-mag with a ULE WL body and a lapco barrel with the warp not attached.

I have to say, though, that I like the weight. A 2lb marker feels... delicate to me.

And I played a 3+hr scenario game with my RT classic warp'd which is probably comparable to a stock E-mag and I had enough energy afterward to play with the walk-ons for a few more hours with no lunch.

Plus when you add adrenaline it probably doesn't feel as heavy, especially when you consider many scenario kits people make on their tippmanns can weight near 15lbs!

[koleah]

My emag isn't heavy. Want to feel my bicep?
Solenoids aren't outdated. Your mom is out-dated. Or is that out dating?



Doesn't anyone else think that a E-pneu / mech mag would be cool? I think that was what the original post was supposed to bring out, not a bunch of opinions on how emags aren't heavy, and how the solenoid isn't outdated.

Cuz seriously, I at least thought it was a cool idea... :ninja:


Chee, I figured, for as interested in Mag modification as most of us seem to be, that this would have brought out a little more interest that it did. Oh well. :confused:

[GRimm]

Sounds like a cool idea, but i have to agree that while an emag is heavier then most guns, it realy doesnt weigh all that much. Does you emag have a ule'd frame?

Ohh and on a side note, When was the last time you held my emag Watcher? I think you need to come over and pick it up again because i doubt that your mag weighs less then mine when yours has everything on it and mine doesnt. Idk, maye i just havent held your rtpro in a while. :tard:

[Hilltop Customs]

Doesn't anyone else think that a E-pneu / mech mag would be cool? I think that was what the original post was supposed to bring out, not a bunch of opinions on how emags aren't heavy, and how the solenoid isn't outdated.

Cuz seriously, I at least thought it was a cool idea... :ninja:


Chee, I figured, for as interested in Mag modification as most of us seem to be, that this would have brought out a little more interest that it did. Oh well. :confused:

I think its a cool idea. But that doesnt change the fact that the solenoid is not outdated, the emag is not that heavy, and the available software is not capped at 15bps. So the only vaild point put forth so far is possible weight savings.....which I think is pretty much over-signified by paintball players. We are carrying around a hopper full of liquid and a compressed air tank ON the gun.....add a pack of ~500 additional paintballs strapped to our back; now how significant is the ~2-4 oz weight savings of this mod? In no way does my response take away from the coolness of the idea/mod, the only thing it takes away from is the reasoning behind it.

IMO there is very little improvement over a stock emag for the amount of effort that will be required. But that is just my opinion.....those few ounces that are saved might matter more to somoene else.

[Chris Nearchos]

okay, so i have been thinking a good bit on how to do this post before posting. Cause this is something I have been working on for a bit now. I dont want to say too much into details and how i have worked them out because i should have a working product ready for sale by the end of spring.

but some things you will need to look at as far as issues:

1) finding a pneu noid that will work under the pressure and high rates and turture of users.
2) much increased air use ( if used with a lvl 10)
3) what to do with the front grip
4) where to place the lpr


also, have you compared the difference in parts? meaning the weight of the pneu parts compared to the weight of the pure electro parts? the only thing your looking to lose on a EP setup is the huge battery. but that weight is picked back up with the LPR other pnue parts and a smaller battery.

the weight of the noid wouldnt really decrease in the change, because it again will get replaced by pneu noid and its special mounting.

and on the flip side, there isnt really anything to gain from a EP emag. honestly, its just two different ways of doing the same thing.




but as BenoitOWN suggest, if you want to lose some weight on your setup, look into my power harness. allows you to subtract the weight of all the batteries in the hopper and warp WHILE getting much more use out of your battery.

also, if you want to work more with this idea, I suggest you wait a bit for the new Emag board. this will give you the easy option of runing a EP noid.


I will post more on this subject tomorrow when i am more awake.

-Chris

[Watcher]

Ohh and on a side note, When was the last time you held my emag Watcher? I think you need to come over and pick it up again because i doubt that your mag weighs less then mine when yours has everything on it and mine doesnt. Idk, maye i just havent held your rtpro in a while. :tard:


Maybe I exaggerated a little but you can't say that your E-mag fully stock + warp + hopper + tank isn't a lot heavier than my RT Pro with the same.

Maybe your E-mag ULE'd with just the barrel and ASA is about as much as my stock RT Pro with just the barrel and ASA... maybe just a bit more.


Getting back to the topic though, GRimm brought this up in passing conversation, by making the mag pneu but wanting to keep the mech mode you are basically making a selector switch for mech and mech.
It'd be like an M-4 having a switch that doesn't go safe-semi-auto but rather safe-4lbs-2lbs which is essentially pointless.

Since there is no way to pass the Pneumatics, even if you were to somehow make the switch e-pneu vs mech-pneu you aren't really gaining anything over turning the board off... so the switch would not be needed.

Bottom line is E-pneu is E-pneu... nothing more.
Pneu mech is Pneu mech... nothing more.
E-mag with X-mod is fast, programmable, modern, it retains the E and mech modes, but you sacrifice a bit in the weight catagory.
IMO a little weight doesn't compare to outstanding performance.

[Chris Nearchos]

Since there is no way to pass the Pneumatics, even if you were to somehow make the switch e-pneu vs mech-pneu you aren't really gaining anything over turning the board off... so the switch would not be needed.

actually, the switch isnt just for changing modes. It actually restricts the trigger pull shorter in E-mode. So the switch.....or something like it would still be wanted. plus you can keep the hybrid mode in the swtich.




Bottom line is E-pneu is E-pneu... nothing more.
Pneu mech is Pneu mech... nothing more.
E-mag with X-mod is fast, programmable, modern, it retains the E and mech modes, but you sacrifice a bit in the weight catagory.
IMO a little weight doesn't compare to outstanding performance.

if you are talking about those three setups applied to the emag, you are a bit wrong.

the EP and E will do the exact same thing. "programmable, modern, it retains the E and mech modes"


just one is fully Electronic (requiring a bigger battery).....the other is using more AIR and less battery.

-Chris

[Hilltop Customs]

Since there is no way to pass the Pneumatics, even if you were to somehow make the switch e-pneu vs mech-pneu you aren't really gaining anything over turning the board off... so the switch would not be needed.


Place the electronic and mechanical 3 ways in parallel....with the electronic activation you gain ramping, burst, and whatever other mode you desire. Switch to mech-pneu and you gain battery free semi. Sounds like you are thinking in series? which I agree would be completely pointless. Really you would need to have small on/offs on both the mechanical and ep 3 ways....that way they dont vent when the other 3 way pressurizes the ram.

[zondo]

I think its a cool idea. But that doesnt change the fact that the solenoid is not outdated, the emag is not that heavy, and the available software is not capped at 15bps. So the only vaild point put forth so far is possible weight savings.....which I think is pretty much over-signified by paintball players. We are carrying around a hopper full of liquid and a compressed air tank ON the gun.....add a pack of ~500 additional paintballs strapped to our back; now how significant is the ~2-4 oz weight savings of this mod? In no way does my response take away from the coolness of the idea/mod, the only thing it takes away from is the reasoning behind it.

IMO there is very little improvement over a stock emag for the amount of effort that will be required. But that is just my opinion.....those few ounces that are saved might matter more to somoene else.

Maybe a better weight saving idea would be to combine the warp and loader in one package versus two... ;)

[Hilltop Customs]

Maybe a better weight saving idea would be to combine the warp and loader in one package versus two... ;)

Ive said the same thing many times :cheers: I can think of a pretty easy way to make one out of a halo and warp, but the ball capacity will be low.

[zondo]

Ive said the same thing many times :cheers: I can think of a pretty easy way to make one out of a halo and warp, but the ball capacity will be low.

I know you did :cheers: ... in fact, I revisited that thread not 3 days ago when I was cleaning out my PM's. It's still bugging me that no one has done it. I think that you had a great idea with punching a hole in the bottom and having the force feed from the below the marker.

[Watcher]

if you are talking about those three setups applied to the emag, you are a bit wrong.

the EP and E will do the exact same thing. "programmable, modern, it retains the E and mech modes"


just one is fully Electronic (requiring a bigger battery).....the other is using more AIR and less battery.

-Chris


I was refering to that in regards to the selctor switch. If the E-mag was made E-pneu that's pretty much the only mode you can use. If it is just pneu it is the same.

If it was left stock you have mech and E mode.

[Hilltop Customs]

I was refering to that in regards to the selctor switch. If the E-mag was made E-pneu that's pretty much the only mode you can use. If it is just pneu it is the same.

If it was left stock you have mech and E mode.

The point of the post was the idea of having both an EP and mechanical modes:


So what i was going to try to do is remove the outdated electronics of the emag and sleeper E-Pneu it, but still keeping the feature of being to switch to mech mode.




zondo: I really wanted to try that mod out.....wish I had some disposable income to drop on more paintball gear to play around with. Dont think it would be hard at all.....just need a couple mods to the halos feed tray, a feed hole cut in the bottom of the warp(through the battery compartment), and a nice big vertical slot wide enough for the warp cut in the nose of the halo.....well that and some some epoxy. :)

[Chris Nearchos]

I was refering to that in regards to the selctor switch. If the E-mag was made E-pneu that's pretty much the only mode you can use. If it is just pneu it is the same.

If it was left stock you have mech and E mode.


I know you were and so was i. like Hilltop said, i was refering to being able to have mech mode with a EP setup. Yes, it took a little thinking on how to do it, but its able to be accomplished very easily. So the end result would be giving the same firing setup as it is on the stock Emag with the selector switch.

just need to think outside the box a bit guys.

-Chris

[Chris Nearchos]

Ive said the same thing many times :cheers: I can think of a pretty easy way to make one out of a halo and warp, but the ball capacity will be low.


just an idea for you since you have access to milling. If you can create the mold needed for your unishell, i would be more then willing to produce them for you. since i have the access to plastic.

-Chris

[Hilltop Customs]

just an idea for you since you have access to milling. If you can create the mold needed for your unishell, i would be more then willing to produce them for you. since i have the access to plastic.

-Chris

Have to see what I can do.....I could make rubber plastic resin molds myself pretty easy from an epoxied body/halo. Dont have access to college machines anymore so injection molds are out of the picture at least for the moment.

If someone has a warp they dont want anymore and doesnt mind letting it go cheap LMK :dance:

[Ratt]

Have to see what I can do.....I could make rubber plastic resin molds myself pretty easy from an epoxied body/halo. Dont have access to college machines anymore so injection molds are out of the picture at least for the moment.

If someone has a warp they dont want anymore and doesnt mind letting it go cheap LMK :dance:

Are you looking for a nice, pretty warp? Or does it matter if it is beat up, dyed, but works?

[Chris Nearchos]

Have to see what I can do.....I could make rubber plastic resin molds myself pretty easy from an epoxied body/halo. Dont have access to college machines anymore so injection molds are out of the picture at least for the moment.



just to give you a heads up. Try at all cost to get a metal mold setup. (aluminum or steel). its really only the way to do such a thing. From what i learned at a medical plastic factory i worked at and from my own mold making with my charger blocks......metal is the way. gives you a nice clean surface for the mold and can very easily be cleaned up.

working with wood, rubber, plastic molds bring many problems. from easy wear of using the mold to sometimes just not being able to get the design/shape out of thoes types of molds.

the other big thing i want to pass along as a heads up is the thickness. I highly suggest to not go beyond the thickness anywhere in your out come plastic piece of a 1/4". thats one big problem i have with my charger blocks with their thickness. it is extreamly hard to get the right outcome in plastic (density/hardness) when working thick. and half the time the results turn out very bad and just becomes a wasted supply/product.

-Chris

[Hilltop Customs]

I know just what your talking about Chris, I made quiet a few of the rubber molds be4....deformation can be a big problem with them, combined that with wear and tear and the soft/pliable molds are really only good for few casts depending on the material your casting.

I'm kind of curious to see if a halo could push a vertical ball stack if the catch cup is changed to push balls out through the battery compartment area(kind of hard to describe). Its tough to tell if a warp will even be required for something like this, a halo might produce enough ball stack pressure to account for the height change between a bottom mounted hopper.


Ratt, I'd just want it to work, condition wouldnt really matter to me. I'm going to give a friend a call, he has one and I havent seen him use it since I sold it to him....if he still wants it I'll post something up in BST and give u a pm.