..Air America Apocalypse...

[malJohann]

I need advice on prep, use, filling, maintenance, etc. on an Air America Apocalypse system. I'm picking up an out of hydro 3000psi fibre tank soon with the old steely Apoc reg on. Has not been used in probably 8 years or more by the sound of it. Any advice would be appreciated. Also, if someone has a link to or a ZIP file of the Apoc User Manual that would be excellent.

Also, is there any chance that I can run a remote coil on it? Also also, say the tank is a 68/3000, would I be able to put the reg on a 47/3000 or is it limited to the tank size it came with like the AGD Flatlines are?

[Shane-O-Mac]

Put the reg on any 3000psi tank you like.

Search this section and you will find tons of info about these systems, and other AA systems that are similar. The Armageddon is the only one that isnt similar. If after seaching (use the seach button) you dont find your answers post again in your thread, and I will help you out.

[malJohann]

Put the reg on any 3000psi tank you like.

Search this section and you will find tons of info about these systems, and other AA systems that are similar. The Armageddon is the only one that isnt similar. If after seaching (use the seach button) you dont find your answers post again in your thread, and I will help you out.

Right. I got a User Manual by searching the net with Google, and that answered some questions about maintenance and setup like with a remote coil, etc. You answered my question about the tank size, so thanks for that.

None of my questions was answered by searching on this forum though. I read some threads in this Tech Forum, but none of them had my specific questions.

What's left is how do I (if I have to) prep the reg for use, after 8 years of non-use (and obviously no maintenance). Does it need any oil or not, how do I clean up the insides and what do I look out for when I open it up i.t.o. maintenance?

Where do I get parts? I've read that some parts like o-rings and the seat from the AIR valve can be used to service it, is that true? What about if I need pins, pistons, seats or spring sets?

I also need to know ALL the dos and don'ts about filling the bottle. Things to watch out for and the correct procedures and checks to follow when filling it up.

[Shane-O-Mac]

Try these links.

http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=230047

http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=229219

http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=227660

Now if your tank has been sitting around, unscrew the adjuster and remove the spring pack and the piston. Clean the bore of the reg and the piston as best as you can with a clean dry rag. Put a drop of oil on the springs (just avoiding corrosion), and 2 drops of oil on the piston, and re-assemble. You may want to remove the fill nipple and clean the pin in there, and lightly, LIGHTLY oil the o-ring. Like just put a drop of oil on your finger and ever so gently smear a tiny bit on the o-ring, and re-install. I prolly wouldnt do that myself unless it was leaking after trying to fill it for the first time. When adjusting the pressure, becarefull, if you go to high you may bend the pin. Try not to screw in the adjuster more that 75%-80% of the way in and you should be safe.

Finding seats isnt bad I$I sports sells them. Do not use any seats other than real AA parts, they are snow white in color. Anything that is yellowish or soft enough to pinch, do not use in a primary reg system. Reg pins may be harder, check if I&I sells them, I havent looked.

Ok so I looked. go here: http://www.iisports.com/search.asp?s=iispaintball
Stray away from the seat in the this kit: http://www.iisports.com/product.asp?s=iispaintball&pf_id=XP9882A&dept_id=12360 but the o-rings for the piston and the body halves will be in there. For a seat and pin buy this kit: http://www.iisports.com/product.asp?s=iispaintball&pf_id=XP9882A-Q&dept_id=12360
Spring pack should be fine, they dont wear out easily. I think that should about cover it. Read the info in all the links and that should get you taken care of.

[malJohann]

..Ok so I looked. go here: http://www.iisports.com/search.asp?s=iispaintball
Stray away from the seat in the this kit: http://www.iisports.com/product.asp?s=iispaintball&pf_id=XP9882A&dept_id=12360 but the o-rings for the piston and the body halves will be in there. For a seat and pin buy this kit: http://www.iisports.com/product.asp?s=iispaintball&pf_id=XP9882A-Q&dept_id=12360
Spring pack should be fine, they dont wear out easily...

Thanks for the info, but how would I get it shipped to South-Africa? I&I only ships to US, and "International Ground" (mine is going to have to cross the ocean somehow)? That said, it costs freaking $39.95 for an "International Ground" package that weighs 1lbs (3 Quick Kits and 2 Rebuild Seal Sets), is this normal?

[Shane-O-Mac]

Thanks for the info, but how would I get it shipped to South-Africa? I&I only ships to US, and "International Ground" (mine is going to have to cross the ocean somehow)? That said, it costs freaking $39.95 for an "International Ground" package that weighs 1lbs (3 Quick Kits and 2 Rebuild Seal Sets), is this normal?

Wow, I have no clue what to say to help you. Try and look for someone who sells them in the UK. Their used to be an AA Europe. Maybe someone has parts left over.

[malJohann]

I picked up this Apocalypse system locally for the equivalent of $40US yesterday. I assume that's a good price (even with the tank out of hydro)? It still has the original tank manufactured in May 1996, which has never been hydro'd because it was used for 2 years then stowed. So, I'm guessing take it for a hydro and if it passes I'll be able to use it until at least May 2011 (with the 15 year life for a fibre tank), right? Also, looking at the pics of the on/off, which position is on and which off? Oh yeah, what size tank is this, since it doesn't say anything on the label?

Click the thumbnails for a bigger picture:
http://s5.tinypic.com/1zoyb81_th.jpg (http://s5.tinypic.com/1zoyb81.jpg) http://s5.tinypic.com/2is9l5e_th.jpg (http://s5.tinypic.com/2is9l5e.jpg) http://s5.tinypic.com/1hp9g5_th.jpg (http://s5.tinypic.com/1hp9g5.jpg) http://s5.tinypic.com/rkdjpj_th.jpg (http://s5.tinypic.com/rkdjpj.jpg) http://s5.tinypic.com/14nnrqr_th.jpg (http://s5.tinypic.com/14nnrqr.jpg)

[Shane-O-Mac]

Looks like a 88 or 114 tank size.

Fifteen year life span is correct.

The last picture is in the off position.

If your gonna use it I would recommend the rebuild kit form I&I thats has the on/off o-rings also. They dont go bad often, but when they do, the o-rings for it are hard to find.

[malJohann]

If your gonna use it I would recommend the rebuild kit form I&I thats has the on/off o-rings also. They dont go bad often, but when they do, the o-rings for it are hard to find.

I'm guessing you're talking about the Rebuild Seal Set to which you linked, right? The previous owner split the body halves to inspect the internals just before he sold it to me, so I'm guessing I'll need a Quick Kit too, or is this not absolutely necessary? If him splitting the two halves affects performance, in which way does it and why? Also, would I still be able to play with it or not?

[Shane-O-Mac]

I'm guessing you're talking about the Rebuild Seal Set to which you linked, right? The previous owner split the body halves to inspect the internals just before he sold it to me, so I'm guessing I'll need a Quick Kit too, or is this not absolutely necessary? If him splitting the two halves affects performance, in which way does it and why? Also, would I still be able to play with it or not?

The seats are a crush to fit design. When new and uninstalled a seat is thicker. When installed it crushes down to the shape needed for perfect fit. While it can be used after taking the body halves apart, the performance will not be the same. It may work just fine for you and it may not. When I teched at tourneys for AA we always replaced the seat when the body halves were split apart. No exceptions. The only AA system that you can flip the seal and re-use is the 'Geddon. Basicly you shouldnt take the body halves apart unless the system is creeping. Since your in SA, I would buy a few quick kits and one or two that have the on-off o-rings. Since your already paying out the wazoo for shipping, might as well get plenty.

[malJohann]

Since your in SA, I would buy a few quick kits and one or two that have the on-off o-rings. Since your already paying out the wazoo for shipping, might as well get plenty.

That's what I'm planning, but I need to verify something first.

I took the bottle to be hydro'd today and the guy said the thread on the bottle is damaged (almost at the end of the thread, i.e. the pressure test adapter almost screwed in freely all the way then became difficult at the end), so he said he's not even going to try turning it in further failing it right there.

The thing is, the thread on my regulator also has a slight nick (like between 1 and 2mm), does this now render the regulator useless too, or can it still be used (even if that's after the thread is professionally repaired first), or is the slight damage no biggy? I'll post some pictures tomorrow.

Is there a product that I can use (maybe something like a certain type of Loctite) to repair the slight nick in the regulator thread at home, that's if it's even necessary?

Hmmm...everything I posted above may be of no significance, since I just noticed that there's some kind of thread locking gunk left over in the bottle thread at the end, which explains why it got difficult to turn his pressure test adapter in at the end. I'm going to clean it out tonight and go see the hydro tester again tomorrow.

[Shane-O-Mac]

That's what I'm planning, but I need to verify something first.

I took the bottle to be hydro'd today and the guy said the thread on the bottle is damaged (almost at the end of the thread, i.e. the pressure test adapter almost screwed in freely all the way then became difficult at the end), so he said he's not even going to try turning it in further failing it right there.

The thing is, the thread on my regulator also has a slight nick (like between 1 and 2mm), does this now render the regulator useless too, or can it still be used (even if that's after the thread is professionally repaired first), or is the slight damage no biggy? I'll post some pictures tomorrow.

Is there a product that I can use (maybe something like a certain type of Loctite) to repair the slight nick in the regulator thread at home, that's if it's even necessary?

Hmmm...everything I posted above may be of no significance, since I just noticed that there's some kind of thread locking gunk left over in the bottle thread at the end, which explains why it got difficult to turn his pressure test adapter in at the end. I'm going to clean it out tonight and go see the hydro tester again tomorrow.

Yup clean out the loc-tite and it should thread on just right. When they assembled these tank the used 2 drops of Red loc-tite to keep the bottle from coming off. Now it isnt exactly necessary, as once you pressurize it the pressure will hold it in place. Since the bottle and reg doesnt screw into the gun, the bottle shouldnt receive any twisting action. I would personally put 2 drops on the last three threads, let it wick around then spin the bottle on. When done correctly it will still be removeable if you have to fly somewhere with it. So take your time, use a dental pick or similar item and thourghly clean the threads, the are more than likely not buggered. I wouldn't worry about the reg unless it will not screw into the bottle all the way.

[malJohann]

Yup clean out the loc-tite and it should thread on just right. When they assembled these tank the used 2 drops of Red loc-tite to keep the bottle from coming off. Now it isnt exactly necessary, as once you pressurize it the pressure will hold it in place. Since the bottle and reg doesnt screw into the gun, the bottle shouldnt receive any twisting action. I would personally put 2 drops on the last three threads, let it wick around then spin the bottle on. When done correctly it will still be removeable if you have to fly somewhere with it. So take your time, use a dental pick or similar item and thourghly clean the threads, the are more than likely not buggered. I wouldn't worry about the reg unless it will not screw into the bottle all the way.

Just what I wanted to hear! :clap: Now, the o-ring between the reg and tank on the Apoc, is that a standard o-ring like the one between a Co2 screw-in and ASA?

[Shane-O-Mac]

Just what I wanted to hear! :clap: Now, the o-ring between the reg and tank on the Apoc, is that a standard o-ring like the one between a Co2 screw-in and ASA?

No not the same. Should be fine though, I have only ever replaced one that I can recall. Just put a drop of oil on it and massage it with your fingers and install.

[malJohann]

..So take your time, use a dental pick or similar item and thourghly clean the threads, the are more than likely not buggered. I wouldn't worry about the reg unless it will not screw into the bottle all the way.

I took an o-ring pick to it last night and cleaned out all the gunk. The regulator now spins in freely all the way by hand. I'm going to take it for hydro on Friday and will let know the outcome.

How do I ensure the tank is clean inside afterwards though, since it would be a bummer if some particle messed up my regulator during play due to contamination, or shouldn't I worry?

[Shane-O-Mac]

I took an o-ring pick to it last night and cleaned out all the gunk. The regulator now spins in freely all the way by hand. I'm going to take it for hydro on Friday and will let know the outcome.

How do I ensure the tank is clean inside afterwards though, since it would be a bummer if some particle messed up my regulator during play due to contamination, or shouldn't I worry?

I wouldnt worry about it. The hydro tester has to fill it up with water when he tests it, so that will rinse it out of anything you missed. Once you get it back you can rinse it out again and let it air dry for at least 24-36 hours. The hydro shop I seen had a bottle dryer they put them on after testing to remove all moisture.

[malJohann]

Quick question. I took the guages and fill nipples off for cleaning. The forward (output) nipple had a pin and o-ring in, but the rear (input) nipple had nothing in. Now, I'm thinking it should be the other way around, because how it is now it'll blow out all the gas right after filling and be unable to let air out of the output, right?

[Shane-O-Mac]

Quick question. I took the guages and fill nipples off for cleaning. The forward (output) nipple had a pin and o-ring in, but the rear (input) nipple had nothing in. Now, I'm thinking it should be the other way around, because how it is now it'll blow out all the gas right after filling and be unable to let air out of the output, right?

Yea sounds like the are wrong. The fill nipple is the one with the pin and o-ring, it should go to a port closest to the bottle. You can use any other type of fitting for the output port that you like, they just came with the QD nipples from the factory. You can also switch the nipples and gauges to either side for your preference..

[malJohann]

Yea sounds like the are wrong...

Cool, you're such a great help, and thanks for bearing with me.

My tank passed hydro today! So, now I got a complete system for a total cost of $60 (and a couple more questions :rofl: ).

The certificate I got from them states that the tank was manufactured in May 1996, but first hydro'ed by the manufacturer in November 1996, yet they say that I can still use it for three years (the standard re-hydro time for a glass-fibre wrap tank).

According to my calculations (going by the manufactured date) it's life ends May 2011, yet according to them I can use it until February 2012, so who's right?

It was only used for two years from the manufactured date and then stowed though, and the tank looks practically brand new, but I need to be 100% sure.

Also, the certificate states that it's got a water volume of three litres, what size tank is it in cu (ci?) measurement?

[Shane-O-Mac]

Cool, you're such a great help, and thanks for bearing with me.

My tank passed hydro today! So, now I got a complete system for a total cost of $60 (and a couple more questions :rofl: ).

The certificate I got from them states that the tank was manufactured in May 1996, but first hydro'ed by the manufacturer in November 1996, yet they say that I can still use it for three years (the standard re-hydro time for a glass-fibre wrap tank).

According to my calculations (going by the manufactured date) it's life ends May 2011, yet according to them I can use it until February 2012, so who's right?

It was only used for two years from the manufactured date and then stowed though, and the tank looks practically brand new, but I need to be 100% sure.

Also, the certificate states that it's got a water volume of three litres, what size tank is it in cu (ci?) measurement?

15 years from the date on the tank as far as I know. 3 litres makes me think its a 114 ci, could be wrong though.

[Spider-TW]

15 years from the date on the tank as far as I know. 3 litres makes me think its a 114 ci, could be wrong though.
:confused: I was interested in the answer to that one. Three liters is about 183 cu. in.. Was there such a bottle, or could they be referring to the total volume of the tank (not internal volume)?

[Shane-O-Mac]

:confused: I was interested in the answer to that one. Three liters is about 183 cu. in.. Was there such a bottle, or could they be referring to the total volume of the tank (not internal volume)?

It is definately an 88 or a 114, most likely its a 114ci as they may not have had 88's at that time. AA didnt make systems with a larger tank. PMS did have a 134 or so, but IIRC it was a 3000psi system.

[malJohann]

It is definately an 88 or a 114, most likely its a 114ci as they may not have had 88's at that time. AA didnt make systems with a larger tank. PMS did have a 134 or so, but IIRC it was a 3000psi system.

I verified its a 114ci by comparing it to pictures of 114ci AA tanks on the web. The three liter volume was probably what it took when they tested it up to 4350psi (right?). 114ci is just under two liters of water if I'm not mistaken.

More questions. My marker did not Rapid-Fire yesterday with the setup I have. I'm running a remote coil screwed directly into the Apocalypse with the QD connecting directly to the valve. Now, I'm thinking it can only be due to two reasons.

One is that I need to service the regulator by replacing all the o-rings and the seat, since its been out of service for so long and because the previous owner split the two halves to check on the internals just before selling it to me.

Two is its because I'm running a remote coil, but I think I remember reading somewhere that this is not the issue, so by way of elimination the only reason then could be that the reg needs a service. So, just o-rings and seat, or the pin and springs too?

Something I noticed yesterday is that if I fired too fast the marker acted as if it were running out of gas (i.e. slow recharge I think) with 2500psi showing on the input guage and 1150psi showing on the output guage.

Also, this morning when I checked it lost about 500psi out of the bottle over night (which is likely the on/off o-rings that need replacement).

[GoblinGreen]

If you leave your marker gassed up all the time I would expect it to lose air overnight.
Better to leave it on the gun and turn off the bottle at the Reg.

When the bottle starts to empty and you get down below 1000psi expect to have drop off.

Also if you run a remote you can also expect to have drop off as it has to recharge down a 1 metre cable instead of straight into the valve.

Try stick the bottle straight into the marker without the remote you may feel some difference.

my 2 cents. use it dont use it. But you aint having my spare apocolype kit (even if the orings are brown-ish) :rolleyes:

Glad to hear you got the bottle working though which is a step in the right direction.

[malJohann]

If you leave your marker gassed up all the time I would expect it to lose air overnight.
Better to leave it on the gun and turn off the bottle at the Reg.

The marker was not gassed up and the on/off was in the off position overnight. How do I remove the on/off in order to massage the o-rings with a bit of oil and clean up in there?


When the bottle starts to empty and you get down below 1000psi expect to have drop off.

I'll keep that in mind, only I had drop off with the input showing 2500psi and the output showing 1150psi.


Also if you run a remote you can also expect to have drop off as it has to recharge down a 1 metre cable instead of straight into the valve.

I don't understand this 100%, since the whole line is pressurized up to 1150psi right up to the regulator on the marker. Surely firing a shot or a burst of shots should just send negative pressure pulses through the line, which in turn prompts the regulator to fill in the gaps so to speak?


Try stick the bottle straight into the marker without the remote you may feel some difference.

I'm going to try that, problem is I didn't get a dovetail mount with the Apocalypse.

[Shane-O-Mac]

I verified its a 114ci by comparing it to pictures of 114ci AA tanks on the web. The three liter volume was probably what it took when they tested it up to 4350psi (right?). 114ci is just under two liters of water if I'm not mistaken.

More questions. My marker did not Rapid-Fire yesterday with the setup I have. I'm running a remote coil screwed directly into the Apocalypse with the QD connecting directly to the valve. Now, I'm thinking it can only be due to two reasons.

One is that I need to service the regulator by replacing all the o-rings and the seat, since its been out of service for so long and because the previous owner split the two halves to check on the internals just before selling it to me.

About the only thing that wuill make it perfrom that badly, is a sticky piston or bent reg pin. Take the piston out, wipe it clean, and put a drop or 2 of oil in it. Make sure the piston slides freely in the bore. It will have some drag, but should have very little.


Two is its because I'm running a remote coil, but I think I remember reading somewhere that this is not the issue, so by way of elimination the only reason then could be that the reg needs a service. So, just o-rings and seat, or the pin and springs too?

Something I noticed yesterday is that if I fired too fast the marker acted as if it were running out of gas (i.e. slow recharge I think) with 2500psi showing on the input guage and 1150psi showing on the output guage.

Also, this morning when I checked it lost about 500psi out of the bottle over night (which is likely the on/off o-rings that need replacement).

Losing air overnight isnt all that unusual. When filled spray some soapy water around the bottle to reg area and all fittings and gauges to find the leak.

Using a remote should not affect recharge.

With your tank at least half full, shoot one shot and watch the gauge, if it springs back immediately to the output pressure the recharge is fine. If it goes down and then rises slowly, recharge is bad. Hopefully you have the large Ashcroft style gauges, they work best when size isnt a concern. When you pull the piston and clean it, look at the reg pin and see if it is bent, many times it can be bent and hinder flow. If/when you rebuild the reg, keep the output at zero, fill the tank, then adjust to 600-800 to start with, test the system like I suggested, the slowly bring it up to 1000psi. I wouldnt go higher than that as you risk bending the reg pin.

[malJohann]

About the only thing that wuill make it perfrom that badly, is a sticky piston or bent reg pin. Take the piston out, wipe it clean, and put a drop or 2 of oil in it. Make sure the piston slides freely in the bore. It will have some drag, but should have very little.

Cool. Saw the piston when I opened the front the other day (and it did look quite gunky), but how do I remove it?

[Shane-O-Mac]

Cool. Saw the piston when I opened the front the other day (and it did look quite gunky), but how do I remove it?

Unscrew the adjuster all the way out, remove the spring pack, and find a pick or small screwdriver and carefully hook the piston and slide out. Clean thourghly, and put 2-3 drops of oil on it. You can put a drop of oil on the spring pack washers to keep any rust or corrosion from happening. Get some q-tips and plain alcohol and clean the bore of the pistn housing thourghly, keep doing it until the q-tips come out clean. You can do this with the tank having air in it, just have it turned off, this will also tell you if the seat is leaking, drop some alcohol in the bore and look for bubbles after you turn the air back on. Make sure and degass the reg before you remove the adjuster and piston.

[malJohann]

Unscrew the adjuster all the way out, remove the spring pack, and find a pick or small screwdriver and carefully hook the piston and slide out. Clean thourghly, and put 2-3 drops of oil on it. You can put a drop of oil on the spring pack washers to keep any rust or corrosion from happening. Get some q-tips and plain alcohol and clean the bore of the pistn housing thourghly, keep doing it until the q-tips come out clean. You can do this with the tank having air in it, just have it turned off, this will also tell you if the seat is leaking, drop some alcohol in the bore and look for bubbles after you turn the air back on. Make sure and degass the reg before you remove the adjuster and piston.

Cool. I actually went ahead last night and removed the piston (without reading your reply first though). The o-ring was dry and there was some oil stains on the piston and inside the bore. I wiped this off with paintball oil and lubricated the o-ring slightly, not nearly 3 drops of oil though, since I put less than a drop of oil on my finger and then applied that to the o-ring (I thought using too much oil can cause combustion, which is why I'm so carefull) . Checked the pin and its not bent at all, 100% by the look of it.

Anyway, after this I reassembled the front and worked the pressure up from 600psi. At around 1000psi the trigger had a fair bit of kickback (more than before), but not enough to rapid fire yet. Then I incremented it slowly up to about 1200 psi, at which point my mag went into a slow rapid fire (like 8bps or something), but then it got weird.

After about two seconds of sustained fire the output guage jumped from just below 1200psi up to about 1500psi and it started venting from the front. I backed off the pressure by screwing the adjuster nut out slightly and did the process all over again.

Second time around the same thing happened, as soon as there was enough reactivity for rapid fire the guage jumped up from just below 1200psi up to 1500psi, so I backed it down again, degassed and left it until I got some feedback from you again.

Now I'm thinking either I didn't use enough oil when I cleaned the piston last night, the o-ring may be damaged or may need to be "run in" after such a long time of not being used, or I need to replace the reg seat. What do you say? The adjuster nut didn't have to go in as far as before to reach 1200psi, only about half way, where before it was more like two thirds of the way in.

Also, do you have pictures or a diagram of what the internals look like? I would like to verify that everything is present and installed correctly. Also also, how do I remove the on/off after the tank is empty? I want to check those o-rings and massage them with oil a bit, since it's the only part of the reg I haven't been able to get to.

[Gate]

not sure if this will help you but I've found a pdf of the manual, it has an exploded diagram on page 5
http://info.paintball.ru/files/manuals/reg/apoc.pdf

[Shane-O-Mac]

Cool. I actually went ahead last night and removed the piston (without reading your reply first though). The o-ring was dry and there was some oil stains on the piston and inside the bore. I wiped this off with paintball oil and lubricated the o-ring slightly, not nearly 3 drops of oil though, since I put less than a drop of oil on my finger and then applied that to the o-ring (I thought using too much oil can cause combustion, which is why I'm so carefull) . Checked the pin and its not bent at all, 100% by the look of it.

2-3 drops on that part is fine, there isnt high enough of a pressure and the heat needed for combustion. Just pressurizing the oil will not make it combust, you still need and ignition source.



Anyway, after this I reassembled the front and worked the pressure up from 600psi. At around 1000psi the trigger had a fair bit of kickback (more than before), but not enough to rapid fire yet. Then I incremented it slowly up to about 1200 psi, at which point my mag went into a slow rapid fire (like 8bps or something), but then it got weird.

After about two seconds of sustained fire the output guage jumped from just below 1200psi up to about 1500psi and it started venting from the front. I backed off the pressure by screwing the adjuster nut out slightly and did the process all over again.

Second time around the same thing happened, as soon as there was enough reactivity for rapid fire the guage jumped up from just below 1200psi up to 1500psi, so I backed it down again, degassed and left it until I got some feedback from you again.

Yup sounds like it needs a seat and reg pin. Even though it looks unbent, the pin may still have some kink in it. That tiny little spring behind the pin isnt important to replace, it just keeps the reg pin located properly. When you replace the seat, tighten the body halves together until the meet up flush. Also be very carefull with using teflon tape, it can easily unwind and get into the system causing havoc.



Now I'm thinking either I didn't use enough oil when I cleaned the piston last night, the o-ring may be damaged or may need to be "run in" after such a long time of not being used, or I need to replace the reg seat. What do you say? The adjuster nut didn't have to go in as far as before to reach 1200psi, only about half way, where before it was more like two thirds of the way in.

Also, do you have pictures or a diagram of what the internals look like? I would like to verify that everything is present and installed correctly. Also also, how do I remove the on/off after the tank is empty? I want to check those o-rings and massage them with oil a bit, since it's the only part of the reg I haven't been able to get to.

The on/off will always be stiff, your fighting 3000psi of pressure to move it. With the bottle empty, there is a tiny screw in the side that holds the on/off assembly in the body. Remove that, slide it out and clean and lube that with white lithium grease or oil. Grease is best on that part.

[malJohann]

not sure if this will help you but I've found a pdf of the manual, it has an exploded diagram on page 5
http://info.paintball.ru/files/manuals/reg/apoc.pdf

Thanks. I have the manual and actually forgot it has an exploded view in it.


Yup sounds like it needs a seat and reg pin. Even though it looks unbent, the pin may still have some kink in it. That tiny little spring behind the pin isnt important to replace, it just keeps the reg pin located properly. When you replace the seat, tighten the body halves together until the meet up flush. Also be very carefull with using teflon tape, it can easily unwind and get into the system causing havoc.

Doh! Now I'll have to pay the mega expensive shipping to get the service kits. Oh well. Any idea whether I can buy a spring pack new or won't I ever need that? When I order it's going to be all at once. Oh, how many of each Rebuild Seal Set, Quick Kit and On/Off Kit would I need to keep my regulator running for say the next 10 years? Also, would the Regulator Seat 6 Pack be a good buy (how often would I need to replace seats)? http://www.iisports.com/product.asp?s=iispaintball&pf_id=XP9882A-S&dept_id=12360 What can I use instead of teflon tape? I do have some Loctite 242 at home, would that be fine?


The on/off will always be stiff, your fighting 3000psi of pressure to move it. With the bottle empty, there is a tiny screw in the side that holds the on/off assembly in the body. Remove that, slide it out and clean and lube that with white lithium grease or oil. Grease is best on that part.

Understood. When the bottle was empty I actually removed that screw and the on/off could rotate through 360 degrees, but would not slide out. Does it need to be in a specific position before it can slide out?

[Shane-O-Mac]

Thanks. I have the manual and actually forgot it has an exploded view in it.



Doh! Now I'll have to pay the mega expensive shipping to get the service kits. Oh well. Any idea whether I can buy a spring pack new or won't I ever need that? When I order it's going to be all at once. Oh, how many of each Rebuild Seal Set, Quick Kit and On/Off Kit would I need to keep my regulator running for say the next 10 years? Also, would the Regulator Seat 6 Pack be a good buy (how often would I need to replace seats)? http://www.iisports.com/product.asp?s=iispaintball&pf_id=XP9882A-S&dept_id=12360 What can I use instead of teflon tape? I do have some Loctite 242 at home, would that be fine? [?QUOTE]

The spring pack may or may not need changed. If the washers in it can easily wiggle from side to side, you could replace it. I would buy a 6 pack of seats and 2-3 rebuild kits with the o-rings. You shouldnt need to replace seats very often, only if you have dirty air fills will they go bad regularly. Look in those links I posted a awhile back, I think theres the exact instructions on how to use red loc-tite properly, and to all who says it shouldnt be done, thats what the factory used. Or just search my name and you will find I posted the method of using it many times. :)


[QUOTE=malJohann]
Understood. When the bottle was empty I actually removed that screw and the on/off could rotate through 360 degrees, but would not slide out. Does it need to be in a specific position before it can slide out?

Nah, just use a small screwdriver or similar and ease it out, they are tight, but do slide out.

[malJohann]

The spring pack may or may not need changed. If the washers in it can easily wiggle from side to side, you could replace it.

Where would I get it though?

[Shane-O-Mac]

Where would I get it though?

How losse are the washers on your spring pack? can you shake the pack and watch them move, or does it take using your fingers to get them to wiggle. On I&I website they do offer a LP spring pack and that should work, or you can try a mag spring pack. Unless your spring pack is very bad, I wouldnt worry about it.

[MntlHazrd]

Currently an Air America Apocalyse 2k is connected to my mag with macroline. the problem is there is enough pressure in the line to keep a seal and not enough pressure in the mag valve to disharge the rest. Any suggestions on how to degass the line so that i may safely disassemble my marker?

[shives007]

Been there. That is why I invested in a few ProConnects.

Couple of options.
1) Let it sit for a while, it will slowly loose pressure.
2) I have taken a set of pliers. Go either side of the macro, and push down on the connection. It should bleed before it pops. At least that has been my experiance.
3) Take a very sharp knife to the line. Start a small cut in the line and let it leak out.

BE CAREFULL!!! For 2 & 3, shut off the pressure using the reg.

Shives

[malJohann]

..2) I have taken a set of pliers. Go either side of the macro, and push down on the connection. It should bleed before it pops. At least that has been my experiance...

Did this with my finger nails the other day after I tested with a macro line in order to eliminate the coiled remote line as a variable. No problems at all, it bled and I still had to pull the line out afterwards.

[MntlHazrd]

Thanks for the suggestions. 1.) it has been sitting for a couple days now and has not lost pressure 2.) sounds like a good idea and will keep it in mind but i dont want to scratch the powder coating on my fittings 3.) its the only macro i have and i dont want to cut it.
I thought of loosening the macro fittings but i dont want to go through the trouble if it will result in me having to reapply the teflon tape. my other idea is to loosen the lp burst disk and let it bleed out from there. After this experience i am defitely thinking about a bleed valve or the like for this.