Need design feedback

[cougar20th]

Looking for feedback from people. On my designs. Honest feedback. Ill listen to anything short of "looks like dog****"

I know ripper was somewhat extreme by many standards. http://automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=218550
Phoenix was much simpler look, more open space. http://automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=228686
Shockwave somewhat more complex design but flows thruout. http://automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=238546

With all the other bodies arriving RPG, PTP & Mongoose's designs. They are both far less sculpted & simpler looking designs than anything Ive done.

Ive been kind of confused alot of people wanted new bodies & alot of people wanted a new unibody. We made a unibody to fill that want & help with cost at the same time. Everyone wanted a cheaper body. We found ways to cut costs. But once they are released there seems to be little interest all of a sudden when its time to sell.

Is the market looking for simpler?
It the market looking for more styled/sculpted stuff?
Is the market just saturated with choices?
Is the market just plain dead due to outside circumstances?


Final note: I mean no bad feelings against the RPG, Mongoose & PTP bodies. Just using them as a example. I think its great there are new choices even if they arent my designs since everyone like something different.

[BigEvil]

Hey Cougar, I hate to say it, but the market doesnt know what it wants ;)

[malJohann]

..Is the market looking...

..for AGD to be bought by someone with interest to grow it into a large company? That, my friend, is the REAL rhetorical question. The rest is just interesting, nice to have and may or may not be bought by a couple of enthusiasts.

[teufelhunden]

Everybody likes something until they have to pay for it. They would also buy two, until they have to pay for it. I think you're just getting stuck in the same hole as most of the other dealers around here with respect to the "customers." That (I would assume) is why a lot of these guys have went to money-up-front preorders and that's that (plus whatever it takes to get to a round batch, I suppose).

Further, the market as a whole is probably listening to too much MSM and getting the doom and gloom report despite what's actually happening in their lives and determining that most of the aftermarket bodies provide no increase in functionality at all and just look nice off the field. For the people here who still play (which I feel like is fewer and fewer people, a lot of people here act and talk like they just collect the guns, though in full disclosure I haven't played in... wow, like 4+ years-- but no guns except for some random crap that's been sitting in my attic since ;)), that probably doesn't matter as much, especially when in fact or in assumption the players disposable income is drying up. So it would be better served going to a few cases of paint than to a body that does what their existing body does.

That, and you're trying to sell to an exceptionally tiny market with almost zero growth potential -- in fact, it's probably contracting faster than people realize. Same amount of Mags around, but fewer owners it would seem.

[XM15]

I made a custom body for myself. I just sent it off to the Fool for anodizing. Its a SFL inspired unibody. I personally don't like the flowing curves and organic look bodies they are every where so I made my own.

[TwilightG]

Is the market just plain dead due to outside circumstances?
Look in the B/S/T... everyone is selling, no one is buying :(
Not to mention that it's still winter right now... a lot of us just aren't playing paintball atm. Although I personally love to work on projects right now since it means downtime for my markers, it's hard to justify spending money on something you're not using.


Hey Cougar, I hate to say it, but the market doesnt know what it wants ;)
This is also a key point. I think as Mag owners, we love almost anything new to the scene but when it comes time to buying... well, not so sure :)

[Spider-TW]

One thing that might help would be to sell some fully finished bodies. That's the only complaint I've heard about your bodies that made any sense to me. When people realize that their body will need polishing and/or blasting and then anodizing, their custom marker cost and time go way up. When I considered a shockwave body, I was prepared to polish it by hand. I figured that I could make it look very nice, but then the idea of sending it out to be anodized and matching up the rest of the marker was too much for what I wanted.

There is the money thing. Personally, some of the money I imagined I had earlier in the year thinned out substantially. :( Tax time is a great time to have something on hand to sell so that people can use that money, but you have to get it fast.

I don't see how you can sell a bunch of custom bodies. Yes, you should be able to sell a fair number, but at the extreme it is an oxymoron (bulk built / custom). You are by definition playing against individual preferences and there isn't that much of 'what the market wants' involved.

The deadly wind bodies seem to be the peak product delivered at the best time period. Personally, I never thought much of dallara bodies, but liked the karta and chord.

I think a lot of the previewing and fishing for opinions with solid models actually gives people time to consider what they want versus what they need. A lot of us have projects floating around in the back of our heads and if you ask if we are interested in something, the answer is 'yes'. With enough time, people figure out that they will need several new parts and anodizing to put everything together. I understand you can't just throw out a product without some expectation that it will sell; however, an extended period of 'coming soon' without much of 'look what I made' is a bit of a downer. As long as the ripper and phoenix bodies have been out, I'm starting to see more than one or two nice projects come out with them. When I see those, I think 'that's what it was supposed to look like'.

[chafnerjr]

Honestly... he's right, at least in part. You'll see a thread going about: interest in something and 500 posts later only 7 people are willing to jump in (with the exception of the PTP body). As for outside influences? OK the economy is a little rough but not quite as bad as the gov wants you to think. (Sorry if someone reading this lost their job). in any event things will swing back around and money will be pouring in again. I personally have to buy a phoenix coming up in a week or so (tax time) to build my wife a new marker. She also likes the new unibody that you made...

As for a personal taste? I really dug the phoenix and shockwave, but not the ripper. I like flowing curves but to each their own right? I also have never liked the feedneck that was pictured with the phoenix in your post... but once again just personal taste. It wouldn't stop me from buying one as I'd just put a CCM or no-rise on it. I really dug the shockwave, but not how it envelops the valve on the right hand side... I think I'd like it better if it was cut out a little more (i.e. xmag or dallara style). With that said I'd still buy a shockwave if I needed another interesting body.

I think that we're just getting a new swing of bodies like we did a few years ago. People are still rocking the Karta's and at least dallara rails. Is there a lack of sales/interest that your seeing? Obviously I don't get to see things from your end.

Now, I would love to see a new MM length body that wasn't like the PTP micro... I personally don't care about the breach being anything other than vertical and I don't like the gap under it... not sure why, but I just don't. That's not to say that it isn't high quality... just not sexy enough for me.




On a side note I can't believe how many people send phoenix bodies to anno without having them polished first.

[BigEvil]

On a side note I can't believe how many people send phoenix bodies to anno without having them polished first.


Well, a good annoer can and should be able to handle that better than most average joes can.

[pk5]

I made a custom body for myself. I just sent it off to the Fool for anodizing. Its a SFL inspired unibody. I personally don't like the flowing curves and organic look bodies they are every where so I made my own.


Heyy no fair, that is my project too :-P, except mine is going to use the PTP body.


As for OP, the amount of work for these body just seem to high and not only that, lately there have been a huge influx of custom bodies on the market. These bodies doesn't have any new inspiring design (except the ptp one that dend78 dream up), and they cost a bit more than what some people are willing to invest ( bad term...but oh well).

Let say the phoenix body, those who want one already bought one, so now that there is another design that is similar to that, i.e. the fluid body, there isn't any need for another curvey organic look body on the market at all. The Karta and similar deadly wind body are still around, but if you look on the BST they are not really selling, not for the price that the seller is asking for anyway.

In conclusion: Too many choices for body, the people that are willing to invest in a new mag has already done so, unless there is some new inspiring deal, there wouldn't be any interested in the market. You can only afford to build so many 500 dollars + marker per year.

[cougar20th]

Everybody likes something until they have to pay for it. They would also buy two, until they have to pay for it. I think you're just getting stuck in the same hole as most of the other dealers around here with respect to the "customers." That (I would assume) is why a lot of these guys have went to money-up-front preorders and that's that (plus whatever it takes to get to a round batch, I suppose).


I am starting to think this is some of the problem. I see the response then am disapointed when nothing comes of it.


I made a custom body for myself. I just sent it off to the Fool for anodizing. Its a SFL inspired unibody. I personally don't like the flowing curves and organic look bodies they are every where so I made my own.

Really cool. Any pics.


One thing that might help would be to sell some fully finished bodies. That's the only complaint I've heard about your bodies that made any sense to me. When people realize that their body will need polishing and/or blasting and then anodizing, their custom marker cost and time go way up. When I considered a shockwave body, I was prepared to polish it by hand. I figured that I could make it look very nice, but then the idea of sending it out to be anodized and matching up the rest of the marker was too much for what I wanted.

; however, an extended period of 'coming soon' without much of 'look what I made' is a bit of a downer. As long as the ripper and phoenix bodies have been out, I'm starting to see more than one or two nice projects come out with them. When I see those, I think 'that's what it was supposed to look like'.

I understand the polished/anodied dilema. The simple answer is while it would be more finished it would also make the finished product more expensive. Ano I feel is a purely user preferance.

I do agree the comming soon is a downer. This is why we tryed to make a prototype to show the real think.



I also have never liked the feedneck that was pictured with the phoenix in your post... but once again just personal taste. It wouldn't stop me from buying one as I'd just put a CCM or no-rise on it. I really dug the shockwave, but not how it envelops the valve on the right hand side...

Now, I would love to see a new MM length body

I know for fact the parts Jay adds on the prototypes are spare parts he has laying around.

The next designs I do will have cuts for both side valves. The shockwave was only cut on one side because it killed the flow of the design otherwise.

I can look into a mm length setup

[trevorjk]

the pheonix, IMO looks terrible from the side but decent from looking at a birds eye. the shockwave is a step in the right direction (unibody) but isnt all that appealing to me. the ripper is your nicest work IMO but it should be redone in a unibody form for full affect.

but then again i look at everything cosmetic as if i am willing to put money down on it. and so far the ripper is the best chance my money has

[Ratt]

Honestly... he's right, at least in part. You'll see a thread going about: interest in something and 500 posts later only 7 people are willing to jump in (with the exception of the PTP body).

Maybe people are going about it the wrong way. Maybe someone needs to do some research, figure out what features the majority of people want in a body (without making a thread, taking a poll, etc.). Just dig through some of the past threads on here. Come up with a design...then build it. Do NOT let anyone know you are in the process of building a body. When the body is done, THEN make a thread and show everyone what you have. I realize there is a lot of risk in doing this, but there is risk in everything.
My 'logic' behind this is: I am a compulsive buyer. If I log onto AO, and all of a sudden there is a new body on the market, I am going to jump on it, thinking that if I don't get one before everyone else does, these bodies will go, and will never get one. I am sure there are plenty of AO'ers out there like me. I guess you could call it the 'element of surprise'-style marketing...
I am pretty sure there are a lot reason why this may not/would not work. But if the body is a high-quality, functional piece of work, people will buy it. I don't know...has anyone done this before? If so, did they sell their product? Or did the seller get stuck with a bunch of unsold product?
I think some/most of us agree that the 'hype' that preceeds the release of the product has a neutral or negative effect on the amount of product sold. Feel free to disagree with me and tell me how I am wrong...
If I had the money, tools, time...I would try this myself. Unfortunately, the U.S. Navy didn't issue me a CNC machine (or the time and knowledge to use it).

[DevilMan]

One of my issues that I have when wanting to get a new body, which I love the organic flow of your shockwave body is that in the end it's all just hobbled together with spare parts.

Not your body per say but the marker over all. Look at the "Nike Shoe" look that the markers of today have going for them. They are all flowing together. The lines go together from top to bottom. The asa the frame the feedneck for the most part.

Emag lowers don't match up to the lines of anything worth a crap. Neither do Intelli frames or Benchy's whether single or double trigger. Oh I know it'd be a NICEEEEEEEEE HIGGHHHH Dollar amount to get a fully milled out setup but that's my issue with them. Then you take all this and you stick a generic barrel on the end and it counter-acts all of the rest of the work.

I am also a person that does not like the hard angles and sharp lines like the Micro mags and SFL's. I'm like that when it comes to my real guns as well. Kimber does a thing called "dehorning" it's where they smooth off all of the edges and corners.

I'm in the process of doing that on my pump gun. Just because. I'm really thinking it's gonna look like a well polished turd when I get done, but what the hell right?

I think the economy has something to do with it as well, and sorry to disagree with the above post about it being down, but I am unemployed and the market and overall status is in the slums right now. Trust me. It's not just the gubmint saying it, but it is the gubmints fault for allowing all of the BS banking and lending and loan companies to do what they've been doing all of these years. It's a cycle. Things go up for awhile... then they come down. Well right now we are in a down stroke I think.

I want to pick up one of your unibody's but well as I said... it's still just put together with spare parts in the end.

That's my thoughts...

DM

[Ratt]

One of my issues that I have when wanting to get a new body, which I love the organic flow of your shockwave body is that in the end it's all just hobbled together with spare parts.

Not your body per say but the marker over all. Look at the "Nike Shoe" look that the markers of today have going for them. They are all flowing together. The lines go together from top to bottom. The asa the frame the feedneck for the most part.

Emag lowers don't match up to the lines of anything worth a crap. Neither do Intelli frames or Benchy's whether single or double trigger. Oh I know it'd be a NICEEEEEEEEE HIGGHHHH Dollar amount to get a fully milled out setup but that's my issue with them. Then you take all this and you stick a generic barrel on the end and it counter-acts all of the rest of the work.

I am also a person that does not like the hard angles and sharp lines like the Micro mags and SFL's. I'm like that when it comes to my real guns as well. Kimber does a thing called "dehorning" it's where they smooth off all of the edges and corners.

I'm in the process of doing that on my pump gun. Just because. I'm really thinking it's gonna look like a well polished turd when I get done, but what the hell right?

I think the economy has something to do with it as well, and sorry to disagree with the above post about it being down, but I am unemployed and the market and overall status is in the slums right now. Trust me. It's not just the gubmint saying it, but it is the gubmints fault for allowing all of the BS banking and lending and loan companies to do what they've been doing all of these years. It's a cycle. Things go up for awhile... then they come down. Well right now we are in a down stroke I think.

I want to pick up one of your unibody's but well as I said... it's still just put together with spare parts in the end.

That's my thoughts...

DM


Very good point. Someone needs to come out with the "whole package". Barrel, frame, body/rail...everything made together.

[DevilMan]

Very good point. Someone needs to come out with the "whole package". Barrel, frame, body/rail...everything made together.

Or if not MADE together at least made to accept something like CP barrels and benchy frames BETTER than the other stuff.

Meaning you can hobble it together with parts, or you can get these certain ones and they'll look better in the end. Not saying CP for the win, just because their barrels have a shape to them.

Take a look at a System X NME for example, from the trigger guard to the barrel tip to the ASA, LPR and HPR.... all made as one "look"

DM

[Maghog]

How many bodies have you guys sold altogether? 20? 30? 50 would be a lot.
Of the possibly 10000 still active Mag toters out there, only about 10% tops are serious about modifying their gun. Let's say that half of those guys have already done it and are happy with their gun. Another hundred or so go the "do it yourself" route while a few more have the "wait and see what's coming" attitude. This is all just guesstimation, but I think it's in the ballpark if you are realistic.
So now you have to factor in competition, including various AGD bodies, as well as the many aftermarket styles we know. Your biggest competition, the PTP Micro 2009 just hit the market, and it has made quite an impression. It has two very impressive features that have even those like myself who aren't even in the market for a new body buying one. Those are the material being used, and the versatility factor. Still, how many will be made? 2-300? That's an admirable number, but it's not going to shore up the mag in the future either. It's more of a novelty for us mag fans, as are the bodies that you and XMagterror make.

I will be happy to give you my opinion on your designs, but remember that they are just a point of view, and everyone sees your stuff differently. What matters most is what is appealing to you.

The Ripper concept has so much potential,but the front and the back clash for me totally. The "cone" shapes in the front just don't go with the ripples in the back. The ripples themselves are beautiful, but there are too many of them and they are too consistently placed. Less can be more.

The Phoenix design is absolutely the most beautiful aftermarket body out there. The design is very simple and that's what makes it so strong. If there is anything I don't like about it, it is where the line ends at the front where the barrel opening is. It's a bit abrupt, but it's minor when observing the piece as a whole. Very clean and elegant.

The Shockwave is a close call. I personally don't like it, but I can see where other people may find it very eye-catching. The waves just aren't for me. Like the ripper, they are too consistent and the piece just doesn't generate any "life" when I look at it.

As with all of your work, the execution and finish is top quality, and that is worth a lot. I'm not really sure what you are after though. If you really want to sell masses, then you have to go all out and make a design that is just so mind boggling that it blows everything else out of the water. This means some serious thinking outside of the box though. You would have to reinvent the mag in a sense, spend hours upon hours with design and research and put all of your resources on the line with the hope that you have a winner.
In the end, if it doesn't pay off, the disappointment is enormous. The risk is huge, and the investment of time and finances even more so, but if you happen to make it work, the reward would be very gratifying, and possibly even profitable.
Good luck to the both of you,
Dan@Triggernomics

[BlueDragonX]

There are three reasons why I, personally, would not buy any of these bodies.

First and foremost, they just don't appeal to me. The designs feel unfinished. The Ripper and Phoenix are too symmetrical, front to back, which fails to capture the organic look that they seem like they were going for. The Shockwave is a step in the right direction. It has more depth, allowing you get the flowing look you're after, and it doesn't seem like it's repeating itself.

Secondly, they're unfinished bodies. I can buy all the other parts I want as finished pieces except these bodies. I happen to like gloss black. Everything comes in gloss black. Except this, because it's unfinished. That's additional time and an additional cost over and above the competition.

Third, it's just way to expensive, especially after I've gotten it polished and anno'd. I understand that there's not that much overhead on these, that's just the cost of machining. But that's the problem with short-run work - it's going to be expensive and so only the people who have the money and really like the body are going to buy it.

I like the Shockwave, but not enough to pay $258 + polishing + anno. And that's even assuming that I was in the market to build another Mag. I'm not, as I've already built my Chord Mag (I can only accurately shoot one gun at a time, after all).

[sffudapparel]

http://paulchinetti.com/paintball/Lion%20fantasy%20e-mag.jpg

I want that blue lion body. I think the market would too :D

[cougar20th]

Like it or not I think ive found the some of the answers I was looking for. Thank you everyone.





http://paulchinetti.com/paintball/Lion%20fantasy%20e-mag.jpg
I want that blue lion body. I think the market would too :D

I can design it if you fund it. That is far from a cheap venture. That would not be a easy design to do. I really dont see the market going to something that exteme of a design.

Like it or not I think ive found the some of the answers I was looking for.

[mostpeople]

http://paulchinetti.com/paintball/Lion%20fantasy%20e-mag.jpg

I want that blue lion body. I think the market would too :D

agreed, I would probably buy it assuming 200 or less

[BigEvil]

agreed, I would probably buy it assuming 200 or less

I bet your looking at $1000 - $1500 just for the machining

[LanceRodman17]

I believe that the market is just dead right now due to the current economic situation. I know for myself, I would have bought the Shockwave in a heartbeat but I have to wait for the money situation to stablize (for myself) before I can spend the money.

That is the only reason for me!

[Smoothice]

I bet your looking at $1000 - $1500 just for the machining


Not to mention the $1,500 - $2,000 in design work :eek:

[cougar20th]

Not to mention the $1,500 - $2,000 in design work :eek: Probably alot more. I can see that taking easily 100 hours to get the look right & make it machinable. There would also be alot of research needed to make sure everything is correct shaped to a real lion.

[wimag]

I made a custom body for myself. I just sent it off to the Fool for anodizing. Its a SFL inspired unibody. I personally don't like the flowing curves and organic look bodies they are every where so I made my own.

sweet !! I recall you mentioning this at the last tourney i was at with you. Look forward to seeing it. If it is anything like the other work i have seen of yours it has to be feather light.

[luke]

Build it and they will come!

:)

[BigEvil]

Build it and they will come!

:)

I think XMT may disagree with you on that.

[Dend78]

Probably alot more. I can see that taking easily 100 hours to get the look right & make it machinable. There would also be alot of research needed to make sure everything is correct shaped to a real lion.


yeah but by the time they would be done they would be damn sweet looing, even sweeter when you put the vavle in after you just get it anno'ed and bend the crap out of the tail :rofl: but sweet none the less

[going_home]

The only complaint I have is how rough the bodies are.
Its a lot of money to put out in this down economy especially when they need so much more
work done on them before anodizing.
If its only an hour of work till they are so polished you can see your face (as XT has said),
then put the extra hour of time into them and polish them before you sell them.
I think it would help them sell.
I wouldnt mind owning a Shockwave unibody but only if it was anno ready.
I still have my Phoenix......


http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b195/going_home/DSC_0172-1.jpg




;)

[gunangel]

solid things said above. look back see which bodies have sold and what still sell (cough karta cough) and see which bodies do something amazing (cough sfl cough) personally i would love to see a body that integrates the valve very well. it always ends up looking like a but plug in a body. karta has those beautiful curves that hug the body and gently carress it into the flow. the sfl goes opposite and leaves almost all of it hanging out still amazingly sick.

[tippett]

I don’t post often however since I am currently in the market for a new body this is a relevant topic for me.

For me there are three determinates when considering which upgrades, in this case a new main body, to purchase. Price, Function and Style. Price is the most important aspect when I consider an upgrade due in large part to me being a poor college student with a crappy part time job. Price can however be swayed by the other two determinates. Although, to get me to pay more on a purchase the other two determinates have to be significantly met.
In the purchase of a main body I am not gaining any real tangible difference in function unless weight considerations are a part of the function of the marker. The weight of the marker makes very little difference to me, I’m used to playing with stainless classic valved Automags and umilled Vikings. I prefer a little more meat on my markers in the long run. The two biggest bonuses in functionality, to me, in selecting any ULE main body is the addition of the vertical feed and cocker barrel threads. I like many others have multiple Autococker threaded barrels the added bonus of not having to use another part to adapt them to my Mag is fairly large. (This is main reason I am even shopping for a new main body.) The vertical feed isn’t as important as the ability to use cocker barrels but it is nice not to have to use an elbow to secure my hopper. If I were selecting a body based solely on these points (Vert. Feed and Cocker threaded barrels) the bodies you produce would not have any advantage over say an RPG Exile or even a standard ULE as these features are standard on all replacement bodies.

Since the functionality is essentially the same between each body I have to look at the price difference in considering which body to purchase. This again does not side well for purchasing a body from you as your bodies are considerably more expensive than either of the two options I listed above. Especially if you consider the used market produces 1 or more of these bodies for sell each month. Anyone just looking for those two options (Vert. Feed and Cocker Threaded Barrels) will definitely purchase a new or used ULE or possibly an RPG body if they can find one; both are reasonably priced at around $150 finished and ready to go. Compared to the prices of your bodies upwards of $250 unfinished you can understand why your bodies are not intended for the casual consumer.

When I looked at your main bodies I see style, beauty and just a bit of edge which comes from the dedication to detail you have worked so hard to put into each design. If I were in the market for a stylized body I would be looking directly at the Phoenix body as it is my favorite body on the market today. I cannot, however, justify spending $360 for an unfinished body and rail combo. I have seen deals in the past for cheaper Phoenix bodies, some even without the rail but without the rail the Phoenix just looks incomplete, I still cannot justify spending more than $200 on an upgrade as awesome as a Phoenix body. It just won’t happen not in this economy and not with me having a part time job and school bills to pay for.

Each manufacture is offering us something different with the main bodies they are producing. The original ULE is offering a lower price alternative to the standard stainless steel bodies. Rogue (RPG) is offering a little bit of style for about the same price as a ULE along with dual detents (never really understood why dual detents are so important) granted a feedneck and detents are not provided with the purchase. PTP is creating a new Micromag uni-body design concept with pivoting breach. This is really impressive to me but not important enough to warrant me purchasing one as I do not shoot with a warp anymore. You are offering stylized body and rails produced more at a production variable rather than custom order as is the case with Deadly Wind. I am not familiar with Mongooses work though I am sure it is nice. My point is there are options available for every type of consumer within this niche market. The problem is this is a very small market with very fickle buyers one minute people will want something but when it comes time to pay the price the wallet stays closed and the manufactures are left holding onto the product until they can move it. This generally occurs after a price reduction as the price moves towards price equilibrium in the market place. The problem is when this happens it generally means another manufacture is leaving the market making fewer options available; driving the prices of other options back up as there is less supply.

There are no easy answers for you in this case. You can continue to produce stylized bodies people want but are unwilling to pay for, you could start turning out slugs again with the hope people will come to you for custom milling, you could shut down all together or you can find a less expensive alternative to your current production model. I will tell you I have no idea the cost of machining or what the cost of designing may be the simple truth is your costs will determine your choice.

What you are trying to do here getting the opinions of others is a good indicator you are not ready to give up. I for one say thank you for sticking with it because I hate seeing a manufacturer with good products decide it isn’t worth their time and you never know your next body, rail, trigger frame, ASA adapter or any other product could be very successful and possibly make a change in the current market.

My advice; find ways to cut some costs, i.e. don’t offer detent and a feedneck like Rogue has begun doing. I like many others have a preference on which feedneck I use and angel detents are generally easy and inexpensive to find. You might also try offering a body with fewer details for example many people have said they are looking for a Minimag style body. If you were able to offer a Minimag body made of aluminum, with the vertical feed neck and cocker threads I have a feeling many would jump at the opportunity to own one. Many people like the look of the body covering a portion of the barrel as is the case with the Minimag body and the older RT style. This would also mean less design because realistically it is just a round tube with some slots cut for style. This is where your individual style could be brought out into the new body design. The added bonus of providing a simple style of body (simple as in no wavy lines or special cuts) is people could use any rail available and make their marker more personal. Rather than having to use a Phoenix rail to complete the look I could use my standard rail which I already own and have a great looking marker. Also offering an unfinished body would be a lot easier as people could easily finish the tube look of a Minimag rather than having to spend a great amount of time finishing the detail work of the other more stylized bodies. Not having to offer a rail, or finish work, anno, detents and a feedneck means less money in the long run for the consumer which should mean more buyers. No guarantees though it is a tough time to be buying anything extra.

Sorry for the long winded post.

Tippett

BTW: GH your marker is probably one of my favorite mags I have ever seen!