Angel 14 way valve

[pito189]

I know that is a a mag forum. But I think WDP is actually doing some good. Look how much bulk the valve has lost from the LED to the IR3. They must have really had to machine the parts more precise, and shave a lot of weight off.

[speedballbanks]

holy crap that must have dropped alot of wait and now you can tell that paintball is getting more precise and advanced with machining.

[steveg]

Hate to be fussy(no wait I love it) the small and medium
5 way valves (what the heck is a 14 way anyhow) are
off the shelf SMC valves and have been available for years.
the original 14 way uses a pair of SMC pilot valves to
operate the WDP designed spool valve.
Why they did that is a mystery because, the SMC valves are
much less expensive and manufactured by the millions.

[pito189]

The 14 way valve is the valve that controls the airflow through the marker I believe. I just find it amazing that they reduced the valve by half it looks like to me.

[lonsch]

they didnt reduce the size of the 14 way. they just started using a smaller one that was all ready made

[steveg]

Hi pito yup the "14 way" does control the ram

In pnuematic valves there are standard designations

2 way just an on/off valve like a water tap
3 way air inlet, air outlet(port), and exhaust
4 way air inlet, A and B ports, and an exhaust shared by both A and B
5 way air inlet, A and B ports, and A and B exhaust

the 14way is in fact a 5 way valve with a funny name

to get way too detailed the big and medium valve are called
pilot operated spool valves

and the little one is a direct operated spool valve.
[edit, looking at a bigger picture the little one
might be pilot operated as well]

the two little valves are made by SMC pnuematics from Japan
and the 14 way valve is made by WDP and uses a SMC pilot(3 way) valve

[shartley]

Anyone actually WEIGH the valves? Just because something drops in size (or is simply a smaller item), does not mean it WILL weigh less. It just might… but you cannot just look at a picture and tell it weighs less because it is smaller.

Example… When I was young, Boom Boxes were HUGE! My kids now have small portable stereo units that crank out massive amounts of sound, and are a fraction of the “size” of the old Boom Boxes.. but guess what? They weigh MORE.

How about this? My mountain Bike is twice the size of my Son’s…. but HIS weighs more than mine.

Again… anyone actually weigh the valves? ;)

[pito189]

No I sure havent seeing as I didnt go to mardi grais open. I just got the picture off warpig. I'm just assuming (yes I know what assuming can do) that since it is so much smaller size wise than the LED valve. That it has to weigh less. To make parts that small I don't think that you would use a heavier material. That would make no sense. What would be the benefit of the valve being smaller if the parts weight twice as much. No benefit would be gained at all.

[shartley]

What would be the benefit of the valve being smaller if the parts weight twice as much.
Ummm.. to BE smaller? Being compact can be a good thing in itself.. even if it does not reduce weight.

I am not saying that it IS that way… but to say is “isn’t” because it would not make sense….. just does not make sense. ;) Look around at all the things that don’t make sense, but ARE.

No benefit would be gained at all.Well… like I said.. to BE smaller. And often times being smaller IS the benefit in itself. And if they made smaller parts but did not really reduce weight.. but the consumer THOUGHT it did.... hmmmm

And like I said about my Mountain Bike.... my Son's bike is HALF the size of my bike... but weighs twice as much. Hey, that just doesn't make sense.... or does it?

Someone bust out the scales! :D

[steveg]

Hi shartley all the valves are make of aluminum with
a stainless steel spool, so the weight will be more or
less proportional to size.

The small ones might be die cast of a zinc/aluminum alloy,
that is about twice as heavy as aluminum though, but they
are mostly hollow.

I think that WDP changed valves for size, with weight
a side benefit

Oh and I made a mistake They are not 5 way's they are

5 port 4 way's sorry

[pito189]

Originally posted by shartley

Ummm.. to BE smaller? Being compact can be a good thing in itself.. even if it does not reduce weight.

Good point. Where does the 14 way sit on the gun? Is the C&C IR3 able to have that serious milling on the back of it, because they made the valve so much smaller (but maybe not lighter)? The scales do need to be broken out. I said the no benefit would be gained at all. Because if the valve pieces were heavier they would move slower than lighter pieces. So in the smaller valve it would still cycle slower I guess you could say because the pieces would be just as heavy.

[billmi]

Originally posted by steveg
Hate to be fussy(no wait I love it) the small and medium
5 way valves (what the heck is a 14 way anyhow) are
off the shelf SMC valves and have been available for years.
the original 14 way uses a pair of SMC pilot valves to
operate the WDP designed spool valve.
Why they did that is a mystery because, the SMC valves are
much less expensive and manufactured by the millions.

I asked John Rice about the 14 way name, since it's always bugged me - he said that's what they used that name since it has 14 gas paths. In typical nomenclature, this valve would be either a 5 way, or a 3port/2exhaust valve.

As to the history of the valves.

The first, as you say has a WDP machhined aluminum section with an SMC pilot and end. That is because when they started, SMC didn't think they were worth the time to work with much (i.e. paintball?!? How can that fringe sport be profitable?!?).

The second (LCD valve) was an SMC product, and according to Rice, WDP was one of the first customers to get it, SMC helping them select it to integrate into the LCD Angel.

The third valve, used in the IR3, also according to Rice, was designed by SMC, application specific for the Angel IR3, it's not an "off the shelf" product. If I remember correctly it is produced solely for WDP, but I don't have my interview notes in front of me at the moment to verify that.

Shartley - I didn't weigh the valves when I took the pic, but I did handle them, and they did feel progressively lighter. The weight difference between the original and LCD was the greatest but the IR3 valve felt lighter still. The weight difference between the LCD and IR3 valves wasn't very great though, it appears that most of the reduced material between designs is lightweight plastic.

See you on the field,
-Bill Mills

[shartley]

Thanks guys. :)

Now.... correct me if I am wrong, but it seems that you are both saying that it really IS about size... and the weight may or may not be a reduction... if it IS, great.. if not, it should actually work the same.. just take up less space? And if it DOES weigh less, it would be a side benefit but not the “reason” for making it smaller?

(Added... Thanks Bill, that is what I wanted to know. You posted while I was writing. :D)

[steveg]

Hey Bill thanks a bunch !

To be honest I'm a bit suspicious of WPD's explaination
about the 4ways. These things cost a LOT to set up to
manufacture, (but their price is very low) and its
much more likely to be a slight alteration of an off the shelf
Item. I bought a couple of MAC 4 ways for about $30 retail.
wonder what an Angel 4 way costs to them, and then to the
customer.

Shockers have been using a similar valve for how long?

As another benefit a direct acting valve as faster than
a pilot operated valve