New SFL Cocker $700.00 ?

[going_home]

The ST USA site seems to be down....

http://www.shocktechusa.com/sfl/index.htm

But heres a pic at pot belly nation :

http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?referrerid=210641&t=3009661

A brand new RT ULE is only $481.00 and is looking more like a bargain everyday !
I've never ever seen a cocker I'd give $700.00 for.

:tard:

[MANN]

I've never ever seen a cocker I'd give $700.00 for.


S6?

You also said 1300 was high for a viking.

Quality sells. If they make quality products they will sell. If not then oh well.

[going_home]

S6?

You also said 1300 was high for a viking.

Quality sells. If they make quality products they will sell. If not then oh well.

S6's brand new start at $500.00 with reg and barrel (not $700.00).

http://stores.ebay.com/ccmfactorydirect_Pump-Marker_W0QQcolZ4QQdirZ1QQfsubZ12567259QQftidZ2QQtZ km

Yep, $1300.00 is high to me. I do hope they sell them all though.

So you are going to buy a $700.00 mech cocker with no reg and barrel ($800.00 with reg and barrel) ?

The point of the post is quality already does sell for $481.00 at www.airgundesignsusa.com
despite the claim, and I quote :


Quite possibly no gun ever has, or ever will shoot as straight.

:tard:

[SithSteve]

For that price, I think it should be E-bladed... :eek:

[BigEvil]

Dear Shocktech,

Good luck with that....


Sincerely,

Scott F.

:rofl:

[MANN]

S6's brand new start at $500.00 with reg and barrel (not $700.00).


I know what they go for. That is still alot for a pump (although I am in the market for one right now.) My point is to let supply and demand deal with the prices.

Is an Xmag worth 1500...not IMO
Is an SFL worth 2k. not IMO
Is a rotating breech worth 220?
this is no different than what we do with our kartas, chords, phenoixes, etc
If they can get 7 bills for it I say go ahead.

[behemoth]

Dear Shocktech,

Good luck with that....


Sincerely,

Scott F.

:rofl:

I'm honestly almost positive this has to be Italian ESP or something.

My sentiments exactly.

[Pullman]

They look pretty cool. I might pick one up in a year when they are going for 300. I'd pump it though.

[flyingpootang]

Let see them make a SFL Emag :D

[Coralis]

^^ or a SFL mech mag.

[drewkroeker]

I suppose the question is: Are there enough diehard cocker fans out there who are looking to buy a new high quality mech cocker, instead of just sticking with the gear they already have or buying used high quality gear? I know next to nothing about cockers but I'm guessing not too many people would want to buy at this price.

I also think x mags, SFLs, and other markers mentioned are overpriced. I have thought about buying an x mag but aside from the perhaps better software, the only thing that makes it better than my emag is looks. That and being able to say I own one.

[Phaelynar]

I agree with the OP. Who in their right mind would spend $700 for this marker. You could have your own custom milled and anodized mech cocker for significantly less than $700.

$1300 for any marker is overpriced. I don't care if it's a viking, dm, angel, cyborg, etc. Especially now with the rof caps, what's the point in spending the money anymore? Weight is also becoming a thing of the past. The difference in weight between a '06 marker and a '09 marker are relatively minimal. I had my '06 milled to the barebones for $180. Guess what the body of the $1295 Cyborg RX looks like? Exactly like mine done 1.5 years before it, and with slight modification I can put in the same Tadao OLED board. Not impressed. While there might be slight upgrades, it's nothing that could convince me to spend another $1300 over buying a used product for $400-600.


I really don't understand how the loader market is even stable right now. What would convince me to buy a rotor for $150 when all I need is a $15 revvy to keep up with the current standards? Isn't a revvy lighter also? I mean, who gives a crap if I broke the $10-$15 hopper. It'd take going through 10-15 of them to equal the cost of one rotor/prophecy, and you'd really have to try to go through that many.

Herein lies the problem with paintball. Nothing incredibly innovative is reaching the market. The $1500 '09 version of the $1300 '08 marker is a number, some different colors, and maybe a new board. Instead of buying the board for the '08s, people waste $800 for no reason. Eventually it's going to catch up to the industry, and the entire system is going to collapse.

[ne0nwalrus]

i have to say that is alittle high. but shocktech is a good company thats been hit hard in this ecomamy problem. and there going back to basics, with high quality guns in low batches. there new site said theres more to come. just hopeing a mag is in there work shop.

with that said i think i'd buy one if it was an e-bladed, and about couple hundred less. they get an A for effort.

[MANN]

$1300 for any marker is overpriced. I don't care if it's a viking, dm, angel, cyborg, etc

Maybe...Maybe not. It is all supply and demand. I would/have paid that much for a marker that is light, fast, and reliable. I could have 2-3 unreliable markers, but instead I only need one.

You dont have to pay the 40k for the Cadillac. The 10k Geo will get you there. It is all about feel, and performance.

I personally dont care what PSP/ NPPL/ Whatever tournament applies states their ROF is. I dont play in them so it does not matter. Any place I play I can shoot whatever I want. If I want to lay down 30bps I can, and do.

[trevorjk]

there ARE enough die hard cocker fans willing to buy a new cocker these days. although, with the pinnicle of mech guns around $500. i just dont see very many that are willing to spend $700 on a cocker. especially when the body isnt all that great as it is just one big advertisement with not very good milling.

now if they had a body like the eclipse DC2 on a mech cocker, i could totally see it selling for $700

http://www.ragay.com/ebay/dc2/dc2_left.jpg

[Dawg047]

Exactly. I would not pay $700 and definatley not $1300 for any marker. Lets see, I payed less than that for both of my Micro RT's together and they are twice the gun of any cocker. No way Jose. Now, if it was 1 of like 10 maybe but heck, that thing better shoot tits while making chocolate milk if you know what I mean. And, with the rate of fire caps going where they are like stated, heck, PGP's will be the next new thing. "Hey, is that the new Tadao 10bps OLED board?" "I got to get one." You know, what the heck is the use of having electros anymore. Hey, maybe $700 for a cocker is the new thing.

[Phaelynar]

Maybe...Maybe not. It is all supply and demand. I would/have paid that much for a marker that is light, fast, and reliable. I could have 2-3 unreliable markers, but instead I only need one.

You dont have to pay the 40k for the Cadillac. The 10k Geo will get you there. It is all about feel, and performance.

I personally dont care what PSP/ NPPL/ Whatever tournament applies states their ROF is. I dont play in them so it does not matter. Any place I play I can shoot whatever I want. If I want to lay down 30bps I can, and do.

But why pay $1300 for the '09 version that is light, fast, and reliable when you can pay $500-$700 for a one to two year older model that is just as fast, just as reliable, and a few grams heavier?

Comparing a paintball marker to a Cadillac/Geo are not the same. A used Cadillac will not depreciate as fast as a used paintball marker. Also, just because a Cadillac is $40,000, it does not make it more reliable than a car that's $20,000. My fathers '96 Jaguar (new back then) was a piece of junk. His '99 Mercedes ML 320 also gave him headaches. The only cars my family has that hasn't generated any problems is my brothers 2000 pathfinder, my '06 altima, and the new bmw's my mom gets every 4 years when her leases are expired. Also the mint condition '78 corvette stingray my grandmother owns is not problematic either.

Back on topic here...no field I've ever played at allows people to play on full auto. On semi they don't care. However, you can't pull the trigger 30 times in one second, therefore having a loader that can feed that fast is completely pointless. If your field or wherever you play allows you to play on unlimited full auto, and you feel the need to shoot 30bps throughout the day, you must either barely play, barely shoot, or you go through 3000 paintballs every 100 seconds.

[going_home]

I know what they go for. That is still alot for a pump (although I am in the market for one right now.) Get a used one then, I did. You cant go wrong with an S6. My point is to let supply and demand deal with the prices. It always does no matter what forum members opinions are.

Is an Xmag worth 1500...not IMO Agreed
Is an SFL worth 2k. not IMO Agreed
Is a rotating breech worth 220? Absolutely, the demand has proven it to be so.
this is no different than what we do with our kartas, chords, phenoixes, etc
If they can get 7 bills for it I say go ahead. Agreed.

I hope they sell all they make of them. Its good for the sport.
At that price its doubtful they will, but time will tell.

I'm glad to see XT Customs, RPG, Venomous Designs, Pro Team Products, etc. (I left some out but I cant remember who right now) making all the new exciting mag parts. Its great to see people are still interested in mags.
I hope they all sell out of their parts, because #1 its good for the sport, and #2 its good for the mag community.

:D

[MANN]

But why pay $1300 for the '09 version that is light, fast, and reliable when you can pay $500-$700 for a one to two year older model that is just as fast, just as reliable, and a few grams heavier?

I dont buy markers that are released every year (dm, sp, ego, etc). I am talking more on the finer lines of markers. Not the "Agg" ones.



Comparing a paintball marker to a Cadillac/Geo are not the same. A used Cadillac will not depreciate as fast as a used paintball marker.

Find a full milled viking, excal, xmag, SFL, and most custom Emags. All of them are selling what they did new sometimes more, and sometimes slightly lower.



Also, just because a Cadillac is $40,000, it does not make it more reliable than a car that's $20,000.

I was using Cadillac as an example. It is a symbol for quality. A dm would be similar to the jag. Both highly priced. both pieces of junk(relative to other higher quality markers).



If your field or wherever you play allows you to play on unlimited full auto, and you feel the need to shoot 30bps throughout the day, you must either barely play, barely shoot, or you go through 3000 paintballs every 100 seconds.

I own my own woodsball course. (10 acres), A good friend owns his own airball/speedball course, and there are 2 local fields that I play on. All of us agree that you should be able to shoot whatever you want. I am not saying that you need 30bps all day, but there are times when it is fun/exciting. I usually dont take my marker out of semi as it cost too much to go all out all day. I will only use speed (FA)on close friends or relatives who need to be put in place from time to time.

There is a market for fast markers just like there is a market for fast cars. Neither is allowed over their respective limits, but both usually are done so.

[cockerpunk]

both MCB and here, man, really not happy about this.

that kinda dumb, lots of people want guns like this, but when a company steps up and produces it, everyone is hostile to it.

i for like it. im not gonna buy one because i use a merlin as my slide cocker, but i like that the industry is shifting to preference and quality instead of performance.

[trevorjk]

both MCB and here, man, really not happy about this.

that kinda dumb, lots of people want guns like this, but when a company steps up and produces it, everyone is hostile to it.

i for like it. im not gonna buy one because i use a merlin as my slide cocker, but i like that the industry is shifting to preference and quality instead of performance.

the problem with this is, everyone knows the cost of everything in paintball. this gun is clearly $200 over priced. that is what has everyone iffy on this cocker. for $500 i guarantee people would be buying these up. people want it, but not for $700 when it should only realistically cost around $500

[cockerpunk]

the problem with this is, everyone knows the cost of everything in paintball. this gun is clearly $200 over priced. that is what has everyone iffy on this cocker. for $500 i guarantee people would be buying these up. people want it, but not for $700 when it should only realistically cost around $500

who says if its overpriced? the custom/PL cocker marker has not existed for alomst 10 years.

who is to say its overpriced?

[trevorjk]

for parts, labor, and mill time that should only cost around $500ish. your paying $200 for the terrible shocktech name on the side. i personally think its over priced for what performance wise you are getting.

dont get me wrong, im very happy that these are out, and they WILL sell. i just think they made a poor decision on the $700 price tag especially were there self proclaimed financial issues in these tough times

[MAGslinger]

Why did this thread mislead me to believe they were offering SFL Automags? :cry:

[BigEvil]

who says if its overpriced? the custom/PL cocker marker has not existed for alomst 10 years.

who is to say its overpriced?


There have been no more PL cockers because no one was buying them anymore. The market was the reason there havent been any in 10 years. The days of the $1000 (or $700 in this case) cocker are long gone.

I cannot see them selling many of those things.

[cockerpunk]

There have been no more PL cockers because no one was buying them anymore. The market was the reason there havent been any in 10 years. The days of the $1000 (or $700 in this case) cocker are long gone.

I cannot see them selling many of those things.

and yet there are $300 mag bodies and milling patterns ...

you can easily build a 700 buck automag, why would cocker fans be any different?

[going_home]

and yet there are $300 mag bodies and milling patterns ...

you can easily build a 700 buck automag, why would cocker fans be any different?

You could be right, time will tell.
But in this economy when the best mech made is at $481.00 it may be a tough sell.
Honestly I hope for the sports sake they do sell.
I'm pretty doubtful though.
Admittedly I am a mag enthusiast not a cocker fan at all.
My only cocker is a pump lol. (S6)


;)

[BigEvil]

and yet there are $300 mag bodies and milling patterns ...

you can easily build a 700 buck automag, why would cocker fans be any different?

Good question. I dont know if I have to correct answer for that. However, it seems to me the high end mags have retained their value, and the demand for them is still somewhat high.

There are also examples of mag parts that sit on shelves and collect dust.

I also think that there were/are a lot more cockers out there, which might have something to do with that. Of course, ultra high end and rare examples of either will always draw a large price tag.

But think about this - recently we bought a used Racegun half block for $600. That is pretty much as high end as you get for a cocker. The example Shocktech is offering pales in comparison, yet is $100 more, and not even ready to shoot out of the box.

[jman511115]

It will sell. There's a much larger following of irrational fanatic cocker owners than irrational fanatic mag owners, but you still see used custom mech mags selling for $500-$600, and Dallara, Karta, and Chord bodies selling for $300-$400. A well tuned slider frame, good pneumatics, a look that replicates the previous SFLs, and low production numbers will sell this gun.

By the way I'm a cocker fan more than a mag fan, but I do have a high end mag. A little biased.

[Dawg047]

I don't know. There are alot of irrational mag users around here. I mean, jeez, Dawg047 has all these Micromags and keeps buying them. I mean, that guy is nuts. ;) I think Shocktech would really profit if they just sold the bodies. Everything else on the gun is still the old school cocker design. I mean, Shocktech Pneumatics and accessories can be had dirt cheap these days on Ebay and such. There is no real innovation besides the body which is almost that same body they had back in what, the early 2000's? It is a very nice gun but I don't see it fetching big money like that. Now, if they were to do something different like make the bolt smaller. Make the lower tube smaller with a smaller yet just as effective hammer. Rework the valve with an all new design that is smaller and 50% more efficient. I could see it fetching those prices. Mags get quite expensive because there are so many different upgrades and just innovative new things coming out. I mean a RT or X valved mag can shoot upwards of 36bps mechanically as apposed to a classic valved mag which can shoot like 13 if maxed out. There are Pneumatic frames, electro frames, this lightened small body, this lightened warped body. The cocker unless Ebladed is just the same cocker from the 90's. The accuracy is great but it still just shoots yay fastt. And, the accuracy part is due 70% or so on paint to barrel match. The quality is top knotch but isn't every custom built cocker top knotch if I put all the best parts on it. I think we buy expensive guns for two reasons. 1) They have some advantage than a lower end gun and will help improve our game. 2)We are obsessed with this particular gun and have to have every one. I don't see the real advantage of this cocker so I would have to say it is for people that have to have it just because they have every prestigous cocker to date. I don't see that many people out there like that but hey, maybe there is. I know I try to buy as many rare and prestigous Mags I can afford so hey. I am just talking about the majority of people in the market. Is there really going to be a market for super high ends in the $700+ range the way the sport is going anyways.? I mean in a year or so, I see everyone shooting 5bps anyway. Are companys going to keep producing $700+ guns to do this? I don't know. Just speculation. Time will tell.

[cockerpunk]

Good question. I dont know if I have to correct answer for that. However, it seems to me the high end mags have retained their value, and the demand for them is still somewhat high.

There are also examples of mag parts that sit on shelves and collect dust.

I also think that there were/are a lot more cockers out there, which might have something to do with that. Of course, ultra high end and rare examples of either will always draw a large price tag.

But think about this - recently we bought a used Racegun half block for $600. That is pretty much as high end as you get for a cocker. The example Shocktech is offering pales in comparison, yet is $100 more, and not even ready to shoot out of the box.

racegun?

no no no.

the valuable cockers have most certainly held there value - westwoods, twisters, revenges and the like are all still fetching 600 plus. even older shocktechs and KAPPs can be seen for sale in 400ish range and most of those aren't even that great in terms of cockers.

the only electro cockers that ever really held value were the eclipse ones. other then that an electro cocker is an electro cocker.

maybe being a mag only guy has tainted what makes a cocker a cocker. now i love automags, dont you worry, but shooting a well tuned, by arguably the best cocker tech in the world, that gun is worth alot. remember belsales? they sold essentially stock cockers, for twice as much. this is because they tuned those cockers to the best of the parts ability, and there is a huge market for that. i defiantly think it will sell.

[NoLifeLeft]

Yeah, maybe its because i'm an old cocker guy but i don't think they are that far out of line. Especially considering that there are so few companies out there where you can get a top notch NEW cocker. That said, i wouldn't buy one but I'd love to have one.

[teufelhunden]

I don't know. There are alot of irrational mag users around here. I mean, jeez, Dawg047 has all these Micromags and keeps buying them. I mean, that guy is nuts. ;) I think Shocktech would really profit if they just sold the bodies. Everything else on the gun is still the old school cocker design. I mean, Shocktech Pneumatics and accessories can be had dirt cheap these days on Ebay and such. There is no real innovation besides the body which is almost that same body they had back in what, the early 2000's? It is a very nice gun but I don't see it fetching big money like that. Now, if they were to do something different like make the bolt smaller. Make the lower tube smaller with a smaller yet just as effective hammer. Rework the valve with an all new design that is smaller and 50% more efficient. I could see it fetching those prices. Mags get quite expensive because there are so many different upgrades and just innovative new things coming out. I mean a RT or X valved mag can shoot upwards of 36bps mechanically as apposed to a classic valved mag which can shoot like 13 if maxed out. There are Pneumatic frames, electro frames, this lightened small body, this lightened warped body. The cocker unless Ebladed is just the same cocker from the 90's. The accuracy is great but it still just shoots yay fastt. And, the accuracy part is due 70% or so on paint to barrel match. The quality is top knotch but isn't every custom built cocker top knotch if I put all the best parts on it. I think we buy expensive guns for two reasons. 1) They have some advantage than a lower end gun and will help improve our game. 2)We are obsessed with this particular gun and have to have every one. I don't see the real advantage of this cocker so I would have to say it is for people that have to have it just because they have every prestigous cocker to date. I don't see that many people out there like that but hey, maybe there is. I know I try to buy as many rare and prestigous Mags I can afford so hey. I am just talking about the majority of people in the market. Is there really going to be a market for super high ends in the $700+ range the way the sport is going anyways.? I mean in a year or so, I see everyone shooting 5bps anyway. Are companys going to keep producing $700+ guns to do this? I don't know. Just speculation. Time will tell.


I couldn't read this thing because you don't know about paragraphs. But what I could read, it seems like you're lauding the 'Mag because apparently there are "innovative" products coming out for it or something. Really? The RT valve hasn't changed in what, a decade? Oh, they made it kinda aluminum so it's lighter. Is lighter innovative? If so, SP/Dye/Angel are way more innovative than AGD. People are putting electronic triggers on their Mags? That's cool, I had a Hyperframe in like 2002. And people have been SpyderMagging their guns for how long? Not to mention the E-Mag. So yeah, there's definitely innovative electric trigger products for the 'Mag too. Oh, and pneu triggers, those are cool too. Two things about those are innovative: they're the exact same thing that sits on the front of an autococker and as I recall when it was PTP (boo :rolleyes: ) vs. Deadlywind (yay :rolleyes:) there was talk of prior art for this in the early/mid nineties. More innovation!

What other types of innovation did you talk about for 'Mags... oh, some people are making bodies. That's cool. I bet it saves like 6g vs the custom bodies that people made 5 years ago. OMG PTP IS COMING OUT WITH ANOTHER BODY... BUT WE HATE THEM CUZ IT'S THEIR FAULT THERE'S NO hAIR TRIGGER! Nothing here is innovative. You're delusional if you think so.

The 'Cocker you speak of also hasn't changed much. EBlades/Races are older now, I guess that MQ thing died out, etc. I think the last thing anybody really did on a 'cocker was toss on some QEVs or something.

AVG is demanding I restart my computer, so I will close with the reminder that you are misdirected in what your definition of innovative is if you think that little list you have up there is it.

[VeeWee]

http://www.ragay.com/ebay/dc2/dc2_left.jpg

That is a beautiful gun.

[Person]

If what they advertised about these guns is true, than they are worth every bit of the money they are charging. 700 dollars includes a regulator btw.

These guns are hand tuned by Danny Love. He is legendary as far as trigger work is concerned, and unlike automags, there is actually a difference between one "working" cocker, and another. Any mag working properly feels just about the same, while cockers can vary greatly.

Very few autocockers for sale used are actually well tuned guns. Mostly they are just cobbled together with no real tuning at all. This gun for 700 dollars is a steal considering any gun close to it would have been 1200 dollars just a few years ago, when the dollar was worth more.

Their pneumatics work fine and even with this "old" cocker technology, these guns are vastly more efficient than any automag.

People think mag owners are insane for owning a trick mechanical karta, dallara, or just nice RPG mag for 600+ dollars. Please dont be so ignorant as to point a finger at a cocker guy ( a guy just like you ) who is happy to get a brand new perfectly tuned cocker instead of an 8 year old piece that needs work.

Cocker and mag guys both love mechanical designs. They both love guns that feel good. They both want good USA made stuff, not mass produced foreign E guns with high price tags. I have loved automags and autocockers since day one and it is just silly that these people dont get along.

So while both mag and cocker guys seem unreasonable to SOME people, to each other, they should be understood.

[Dawg047]

I couldn't read this thing because you don't know about paragraphs. But what I could read, it seems like you're lauding the 'Mag because apparently there are "innovative" products coming out for it or something. Really? The RT valve hasn't changed in what, a decade? Oh, they made it kinda aluminum so it's lighter. Is lighter innovative? If so, SP/Dye/Angel are way more innovative than AGD. People are putting electronic triggers on their Mags? That's cool, I had a Hyperframe in like 2002. And people have been SpyderMagging their guns for how long? Not to mention the E-Mag. So yeah, there's definitely innovative electric trigger products for the 'Mag too. Oh, and pneu triggers, those are cool too. Two things about those are innovative: they're the exact same thing that sits on the front of an autococker and as I recall when it was PTP (boo :rolleyes: ) vs. Deadlywind (yay :rolleyes:) there was talk of prior art for this in the early/mid nineties. More innovation!

What other types of innovation did you talk about for 'Mags... oh, some people are making bodies. That's cool. I bet it saves like 6g vs the custom bodies that people made 5 years ago. OMG PTP IS COMING OUT WITH ANOTHER BODY... BUT WE HATE THEM CUZ IT'S THEIR FAULT THERE'S NO hAIR TRIGGER! Nothing here is innovative. You're delusional if you think so.

The 'Cocker you speak of also hasn't changed much. EBlades/Races are older now, I guess that MQ thing died out, etc. I think the last thing anybody really did on a 'cocker was toss on some QEVs or something.

AVG is demanding I restart my computer, so I will close with the reminder that you are misdirected in what your definition of innovative is if you think that little list you have up there is it.

Yep, your completely right. I know nothing about paragraphs. You should actualy read that whole thing before you come up with a reply that is just completely off the handle and makes no sense. How about you learn sentence structure?

What are you even talking about? I am not bashing the mag. or saying the mag is better. I am not bashing the cocker either. In fact, the cocker is one of the smoothest most consistent markers I have ever shot. It is like the race car of paintball. Everyone shoots different according to its tuning and parts used to build it. It is just the autococker has been stuck in a time warp. There has been numerous innovative products released for the mag. If you don't think so, you sir have not owned one in your lifetime because the Mag has come a very long way and alot of products have been released since AGD has went out.

And what is the rambling about PTP? Noone has even mentioned them. Yep, the new Micro body is coming out. It is the only body that is NOT and Xmag or Emag Extreem to be released with a rotating breech. Not innovative at all. :confused: Oh, and noone hates PTP. If you hate PTP, you have problems. PTP has done nothing but bring good to this community. They do right by people and there products are more than 100% exceptional.

Now, like I said. There is not much there in that 09' SFL that justify's it being any better than the older cockers. Same Pneumatics, same internals. Just a different body. Now, it could be worth the $700 for being a limited production marker but I was just saying how many people buy limited production guns rather it be MAG or Cocker? I see cockers going for $100 these days. I don't see people buying it for that price when an older Shocktech could be had for $200 on the bay.

I was just simply saying that $700 is a bit steep for a gun that is just primarily a prestigous gun, not really offering any main advantage over previous versions.
Not bashing Shocktech or anything there chief. I am just stating my opinion on how I think the marker will sell and its price.
There paragraphs.
I am not trying to pick a fight with anyone or bashing anything. I never do. I don't know why people feel obligated to start talking all kinds or random crap and pick fights.
Sit down, relax and collect yourself. Please.

[Dawg047]

If what they advertised about these guns is true, than they are worth every bit of the money they are charging. 700 dollars includes a regulator btw.

These guns are hand tuned by Danny Love. He is legendary as far as trigger work is concerned, and unlike automags, there is actually a difference between one "working" cocker, and another. Any mag working properly feels just about the same, while cockers can vary greatly.

Very few autocockers for sale used are actually well tuned guns. Mostly they are just cobbled together with no real tuning at all. This gun for 700 dollars is a steal considering any gun close to it would have been 1200 dollars just a few years ago, when the dollar was worth more.

Their pneumatics work fine and even with this "old" cocker technology, these guns are vastly more efficient than any automag.

People think mag owners are insane for owning a trick mechanical karta, dallara, or just nice RPG mag for 600+ dollars. Please dont be so ignorant as to point a finger at a cocker guy ( a guy just like you ) who is happy to get a brand new perfectly tuned cocker instead of an 8 year old piece that needs work.

Cocker and mag guys both love mechanical designs. They both love guns that feel good. They both want good USA made stuff, not mass produced foreign E guns with high price tags. I have loved automags and autocockers since day one and it is just silly that these people dont get along.

So while both mag and cocker guys seem unreasonable to SOME people, to each other, they should be understood.

They are tuned by Danny? Awesome. Met him once, great guy. Really knows his stuff. I completely agree on the shooting between each cocker. There can be a difference between day and night between a well tuned one and one that has just been thrown together. Thanks for the info. What kind or reg are they coming with?

[Person]

Dawg - For 700 they include a ST reg, which is a CP reg with ST machining, so it is decent (not the very best) but at the very least it is ergonomic due to the input being on the bottom of the reg.

Again, a cheap trashy autococker is no where close to working like a good autococker does. While a cheap classic mag (80 dollars) with an O ring kit will perform like ANY other classic mag that works correctly, a cheap autococker can never be made quite like a good one. You can make them decent, but few have made them great.

There is no question that it is hard to justify 700 dollars when one can piece together something -similar- for half that price or so. However, being brand new, with perfect Danny tuning and an excellent warranty is quite a big draw for me.

While automags have had neat weight-saving innovations like machined out rails, there really has not been much to actually make one function better than another.

Pneumatic triggers make the trigger pull better, but the valve is still doing exactly the same thing, with mediocre efficiency and a unique chrono pattern.

I own and love both and 90 percent of the time I prefer a mag, but the only reason for that is because a good cocker is not there 90 percent of the time.

[minimag03]

I don't know why all you guys are doubting Shocktech with this release!

Think about it! Shocktech, a popular and main stream company in paintball, is saying it's cool to shoot a mech. And that mechanical guns can now compete with electronic guns. Hopefully they will sell and other companies will follow with their own mech markers. AGD would get A LOT more business if this idea catches on. I think they would become as big as they were and maybe Tom would come back :cool:.

And $700 isn't a bad deal. These SFLs were $1200 or more when they were released, and you could have found a better mechanical cocker for less at the time. Now they are $700 with a CP reg and are the best Autococker that will be on the market for awhile (or ever again lol). Plus they are tuned by Danny Love himself, which is priceless.

I'm buying one for two reasons:
1) to support ST with the above
2) so AGD wil have a shot at staying in business

viva la mech

[Spider-TW]

and yet there are $300 mag bodies and milling patterns ...

you can easily build a 700 buck automag, why would cocker fans be any different?
You have to allow for quantities.

CNC has enabled the custom mag market, but the quantities are pretty slim and that is for completely custom pick-your-parts. You're also talking about people that will add polish and ano. We can barely agree on a body design, much less an entire marker.

I have no doubt they will sell some. The question is how many whole custom markers will the present market support. It's a tough call. It's also a thin (low distribution) product to expect a lot of advertising out of, if they expect some mileage from that.

Like TK says, we're a fickle group, and I say AO and MCB are the sane ones! :eek:
I often get the feeling you could round up everyone on both forums and still have a minority of thought in paintball. Just knowing some paintball teams and seeing how many of that group take an interest in forum information, it seems like that would be on the high side compared to the general populace.

[MANN]

Now they are $700 with a CP reg
...CP reg. That is not a benefit. there are much better regulators.

[minimag03]

...CP reg. That is not a benefit. there are much better regulators.

There are a few regs that are better, but the CP is worth the extra $20. The CP reg is known to be a decent anyway, plus it's looks fit the marker perfectly. Or you could sell it for more than $20 in the b/s/t section.

[XM15]

WOW! the Mag vs. Cocker debate still rages on. Its nice to see some things in paintball never change.

[jman511115]

Kinda like ford vs chevy... we all know ford (and cockers) are better. :p

[going_home]

Kinda like ford vs chevy... we all know ford (and cockers) are better. :pPut the crackpipe down and back away slowly there doughnut.

[MANN]

we all know chevy (and vikings) are better. :p

Fixed. :cheers:

[jman511115]

Lol. I'll maybe meet you halfway about the viking.

[Hilltop Customs]

Guys, guys, your missing the point...... "Quite possibly no gun ever has, or ever will shoot as straight." :rofl:

Someone needs to tell them, no projectile flys straight unless there is no gravity.....that the Tiberius Sniper rounds fly "straighter".....that this old marketing crap is really getting boring.

Paintball advertising is absolute garbage...I'm really tempted to tear apart their ad sentence by sentence, but I'm not wasting everyone's time.

Nice gun, not even close to being worth the price IMO. Not to say they wont sell, people pay for hype all the time.