So who has it?

[Beemer]

and how do you know?

The MOST consistent gun at FPS. For to long all it has been about is BPS. What do they tell you and how do they PROVE it. {they dont} All I see or hear is this gun is really consistant.
How do you know, what proof or data do you see? How would you prove it?

Ya I know, I have heard it all before. Why do I ask? It is insignificant. They are all close enough that it doesnt matter. Plus or minus WHAT?? Five FPS, that surely is significant in my book if you want to talk accuracy with a ROUND projectile.

What is the FPS on EVERY BALL at 15 BPS or 10 BPS. Do you have a chrono that will tell you that. Put it on FA and tell me what the FPS is on every ball in one second. I will bet large it is significant.

I have a gun that will shoot plus or minus one at one BPS. Want to buy it?????? :argh:

[gunangel]

i holeheartedly agree all you hear from reviews is "it looks good, it shoots fast, it is consistent" what's the point of having a marker that can't hit the same spot more than once. most accurate/consistant marker i've seen is an iron man timmy shooting + or - 2 all day at the chrono. well broken in regs are hard to beat. other than that is my triple regulated cocker pump. can't out shoot it so the slow recharge isn't bad but dang it if it ain't consistant.

[Ruler_Mark]

DXS silver, matched SS freak insert, DW 14in barrel, dynaflow, sidewinder, 04 viking with STD lpr and stock tornado valve. well broken in.

279,279,281,280,278,279,280

On rec paint I see +/- 3 with that gun.

On my vlm(aka cocker) pump with rec paint, sidewinder, 12in tightbore javalin, aka internals, dynaflow, midgit'd with cut hammer spring. well broken in

278,275,283,279 forget the rest

On my FEP quest stock internals, 2 Liter, dynaflow. well broken in, 14in DW freak SS insert matched

270,285,279,278,271



On a un well kept 03 viking, 2 liter, std lpr, stock internals, dynaflow

268-285 (was a loong time ago) rec paint


AKA revenge v2 cocker, sidewinder, aka internals, ccm 3 way & ram, kapp lpr, inline slider, dye ul 10in .684, dynaflow. waynes world grand finale 08 paint

274-278


My old tiger mag use to put out +/- 4 on rec paint, never tried on premium with the same DW and tank as 04 vik.




It is ALL about tolerances, tolerances can be worn off case 03 vik above vs 04.



I have own a plethora of cockers, had a stock 04 mech that did +/- 3 with rec paint and a e trilly that did +/- 12. Built a MQ one from sratch that did +/- <1 on average but if it tried todo over 6-7 bps It would lose that, I could tune it to go 18bps +/- 4.

[drewkroeker]

I have a gun that will shoot plus or minus one at one BPS. Want to buy it?????? :argh:

What type of gun is this?

For the record, no, I am not interested in buying it unless its a g-force mag or the new 09 pump by CCM.

[PsychoBaller]

My Orange 04 Viking got 277, three times in a row at the chrono once... gots witnesses too!, :rolleyes: :D

[BigEvil]

All of those chrono readings you guys are posting, are from single shots. Im interested in what the shots are doing during a fast string. We can shoot 10-15 bps, in a 1 sec string of say 10 shots, what is every single ball doing?

We dont really know do we?

[punkncat]

I think a pact timer will give you BPS as well as shot to shot velocity in a string, or the highest shot in the string...not sure exactly. I know they have a way of seeing with the equipment "they" are currently using. It was in reply to some cheater software that came out a few years ago that was raising velocity in ramping.

At any rate, of what I COULD test, honestly I would have to say that my Xvalved mag(s) were some of the most inconsistant markers I have ever owned. I have always questioned the "method" for chronoing (RT) mags and in my mind have always seen it as sort of a cheat as well. I could easily chrono 20 or so BPS lower than I knew it was going to shoot on field using the "method" as opposed to pulling it "normally".

Of the markers I currently own, my Mini is reliably one of the most consistant. It is commonly +/- 2 BPS over the chrono with most any grade of paint.

[drewkroeker]

I have also found fluctuations when chrono'ing my mags. But they still seem to put my shots where I want them to go. When it warms up and I can get to a field I will put my excal through its paces and see how it compares.

PS: How much of a range do you guys get when chrono'ing an RT mag ie increased velocity at high bps? On my RT Pro I could never shoot that fast so I didn't worry too much about it. With my pneumag I am definitely able to use a lot more of the valve's speed which would definitely heat it up faster.

[chafnerjr]

I think we're going to need mythbusters style high speed camera's to answer this one. I don't know of any chrono that log's velocities of multiple rounds over a specific period of time (at least that we can use). The cheapest way would be to slow down video or have a high speed recording of paint traveling through the air measured against some sort of measuring device... If I had a decent video camera I'd try it... but I don't. Perhaps I can rectify that.

[MeÐiCX]

Do we really want to know?? Shouldn't we just let sleeping dogs ly??

I'd like to know. I would think you'd get some shoot down shooting 10+bps.

[tech-chan]

Ice Epic. I have less than 2 fps upswing and down swing in any stream of shots.

[behemoth]

My 07 borg was known to be 278 or 279 with good paint.

+/- 1 would count as pretty good, no?

My droid was was around +/- 3 with shotty paint. Then i sold it. New one, we'll have to see...

[Thotograph]

My 05 Alien has been deadly consistent as of late. Chrono'd +/-1 at Waynes World for the finale and also the last time I took her out. Actually the other weekend I saw it shoot 3 balls the same speed while chronoing (281, 279, 279, 279, 280). Running a AKA SW with long top, stock LPR, bottles used were a 70iReg running the HP piston at Waynes and a DXS LP 48ci 4.5k air sys more recently, stock alien barrel both times, and the paint was formula13 last weekend and empire engage at Waynes. Both paint varieties rolled through smoothly. I think the regs are really starting to come into their own b/c lately the thing has shot lights out consistent. I mean its always been a good shooter playing wise but now the numbers are impressive too.

I also saw my all stock quest chrono with very solid numbers at Waynes (+/-2). Mark was using that gun. Setup was all stock pneumatics with a LP Crossfire tank.

I've noticed my Vikings to be hit or miss. I've seen them do +/-1 and I've also seen them do +/-10 or more. All depends on the condition of the ram (oring inside ram is critical) and the regs. As for mags I find them to be average on consistency. My emag does ok there. My Revenge V2 round body is the most consistent cocker I've shot but atm I can't remember what kind of numbers it did last time out. Maybe I'll run her at Blanding this weekend.

[neppo1345]

I'm confused, is this meant to be some sort of challenge or something?

[Beemer]

All of those chrono readings you guys are posting, are from single shots. Im interested in what the shots are doing during a fast string. We can shoot 10-15 bps, in a 1 sec string of say 10 shots, what is every single ball doing?

We dont really know do we?


:argh:

[punkncat]

Here (http://pact.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=15&Itemid=74) ya go Beemer. With this you can go and test all you want.

Not only does it time shots as a competative timer, but it is also a chronograph with easy to use review settings on both timing as well as velocity and can be reviewed on a shot to shot basis.

I believe the site said they were selling for about $190.

[BlueDragonX]

If I'm firing single shots (well under 10bps), I want each to successive shot to go where the last shot did if I'm aiming at the same thing. If I'm spraying (up to 10bps or more) it's accuracy through volume - I want a little bit of spread for the shotgun effect, you know?

So I could care less what the consistency is at high rates of fire as long as I've got lower speed shot to shot consistency. Any common chrono can tell me that.

[MANN]

Five FPS, that surely is significant in my book if you want to talk accuracy with a ROUND projectile.

I have a gun that will shoot plus or minus one at one BPS. Want to buy it?????? :argh:

+- 1 at 1bps is good.


I am assuming that you are tring to lead to the fact that you own a FN303, and use your new "sniper" rounds in it, and are seeing great numbers over the chrono.

I have seen several s6s that can do +-1 at 1bps, and are verry accurate. they also only shuck out .03 a second

I am going to try to make it to TBIII. I hope you will bring this marker with you.

[Beemer]

Here (http://pact.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=15&Itemid=74) ya go Beemer. With this you can go and test all you want.

Not only does it time shots as a competative timer, but it is also a chronograph with easy to use review settings on both timing as well as velocity and can be reviewed on a shot to shot basis.

I believe the site said they were selling for about $190.

Well thanks but been there done that, and in fact talked to them on the phone.

It will read velocity on ONE[1] SPS. when I asked about reading velocity [FPS] on say eight[8]
shots in one second, I was told they dont have a way to do that and dont know anybody that does.



+- 1 at 1bps is good.


I am assuming that you are tring to lead to the fact that you own a FN303, and use your new "sniper" rounds in it, and are seeing great numbers over the chrono.

I have seen several s6s that can do +-1 at 1bps, and are verry accurate. they also only shuck out .03 a second

I am going to try to make it to TBIII. I hope you will bring this marker with you.


You really shouldnt do that.

I am trying to lead to the FACT that NO ONE has a chrono that will read FPS on EVERY ball in one second at MORE then ONE BPS, say like ten or more and I would bet large that you would see a drop off of some FPS and or a wide range of consistency.

They tell you their gun is consistent but does anybody prove it at a high BPS?????

Thats working with a safe board that wont ramp velocity. Or is that what is needed to hold velocity at high ROF???

[p8ntbal4me]

Theres a video on YouTube for the new Dye Rotor that uses a high speed camera to catch the shots and timing to show the BPS.

I would think that with a setup like that,..PLUS the strobe camera TK used to measure the maximum barrel length you need as well as the ROF of the Classic R/T,... you would have a machine that would solve ALL BPS, FPS, and scale your Chrono-per-shot questions from now until whenever someone decides to make the arguement anew.

~ P8nt

[MANN]

I am trying to lead to the FACT that NO ONE has a chrono that will read FPS on EVERY ball in one second at MORE then ONE BPS, say like ten or more and I would bet large that you would see a drop off of some FPS and or a wide range of consistency.


I would have to do the math to be correct, but here is a situation I would think would prove/disprove drop off. (and not cost thousands like special equipment would)

I noticed when testing different paintball barrels that they drop (on the y axis) a given distance over 80'. I will have to double check, but IIRC it was ~10". This was using Great paint, and a Great barrel, and shooting ~ 280fps, and usually being +-3 over 2 chronos

Lets assume that we take the marker and put it on full auto, and get this "large" drop off. Would the balls drop on average (on the yaxis)? would the accuracy of the marker change?

I know I used an Xmag to do all my testing, and I learned very early on that the E/Xmags have alot of kick. I had to mount my xmag with a drop on the back, and a vice on the front. The two were mounted to a ~30 lb wood table, and had 3 scubas straped on the table (to insure nothing got bumped).


I would dare say that in a persons hands that their accuracy would drop with this "kick". Now say you used a marker other than a mag (I know odd right). This kick may not be as obvious.

TK did test on recharge rates (yeah you know that already) so maybe in one of his file cabinets he has it stashed on what the pressure drop is/was on some of the common markers of that time.

IMO recharge rate/drop off should only affect the yaxis as far as accuracy is concerned.

Edit: Second thought
We would not even have to do that. Put the marker in FA 10-15bps. Use a semi expensive chrono (1-200). Unload a hopper, and get the ~10-20 readings. That may give you a snap shot of the velocity every 10th shot. I would be ok in saying that that is a representation of the dropoff.

(this is assuming that the chrono could catch a single ball in a string. I would think that maybe the chrono would catch 2 balls, and throw off the calculation)

[Beemer]

This was using Great paint, and a Great barrel, and shooting ~ 280fps, and usually being +-3 over 2 chronos

Lets assume that we take the marker and put it on full auto, and get this "large" drop off. Would the balls drop on average (on the yaxis)? would the accuracy of the marker change?

IMO recharge rate/drop off should only affect the yaxis as far as accuracy is concerned.

Edit: Second thought
We would not even have to do that. Put the marker in FA 10-15bps. Use a semi expensive chrono (1-200). Unload a hopper, and get the ~10-20 readings. That may give you a snap shot of the velocity every 10th shot. I would be ok in saying that that is a representation of the dropoff.

(this is assuming that the chrono could catch a single ball in a string. I would think that maybe the chrono would catch 2 balls, and throw off the calculation)

Well now you are thinking arent you? We dont care about accuracy right now. All we care about is consistency, which OF course WILL affect accuracy. Every tenth shot, WHAT?
I want FPS on every ball in that second and at MORE then one BPS.

The whole point IS NO one can tell you what the FPS is on EVERY ball at more then one BPS.
But they will TELL you our gun IS SO consistent. I say popycock till they prove it. AT WHAT ROF

Plus or minus three is huge. Starting at 290 FPS, thats a high of 293 low of 287. Thats a six FPS spread. See what I mean?

On a side note start with a given barrel bore a given ball caliber and weight to elimnate some varibles. Nylon balls at set weight and size with a given bore............

[MANN]

Plus or minus three is huge. Starting at 290 FPS, thats a high of 293 low of 287. Thats a six FPS spread. See what I mean?


I would dare to say that it does not affect accuray untill you get +-12ish. I dont have data to back it up, but with the reg being the cause of the change in velocity (and not deformed/bad paintballs) that you could easly shoot 10" @ 100' (again good paint and good barrel)

The reason I state this is because you can play with an rt valved mag. Depending on how fast you pull your second shot, and how long you hold your trigger you can intentionally increase and decrease your velocity +- 12 (dont tell the reffs that). I played around with it one day, and was sorta amazed.

Looks like I am going to have to buy a chrono again. My little yellow one is worthless when shooting 100s of balls over it.

[Beemer]

I would dare to say that it does not affect accuray untill you get +-12ish. I dont have data to back it up, but with the reg being the cause of the change in velocity (and not deformed/bad paintballs) that you could easly shoot 10" @ 100' (again good paint and good barrel)

The reason I state this is because you can play with an rt valved mag. Depending on how fast you pull your second shot, and how long you hold your trigger you can intentionally increase and decrease your velocity +- 12 (dont tell the reffs that). I played around with it one day, and was sorta amazed.

Looks like I am going to have to buy a chrono again. My little yellow one is worthless when shooting 100s of balls over it.

Ya I know all that. I NEVER EVER intentionally try to shoot hot EVER at chrono. I chrono my mags accordingly. Now take an X or E mag or ANY other gun at FA at ten BPS and tell me the FPS on every ball. Fact is no one will or can tell you.

I would say you wont shoot 10" at 100' at plus or minus 12ish FPS. Then again if you want to do it right you need the given bore and the given ball. My little friends the nylon ball at a given size and weight and the hardware to read FPS on every ball at FA at 10BPS

[Spider-TW]

There's a guideline for ball to ball consistency though.

Is not a good "rope" of paint at least a good observation of consistency at high rof?

At a long, but practical, range you see the lower velocity shots starting to drop out earlier than the rest. That's what I would judge my classic pneumag on at least. I'm sure it was more than 15 fps deviation on occasion, but when it to started roping cleanly I had to call it good enough.

The same is true for an x-valve in RT mode. If it's going 15 to 19 bps and I have to move the point of impact because they are all going to the same point, it's good for me. :dance:

It demands good paint as a test, but I quit trying to make any performance judgments on poor paint. :argh:

[Watcher]

I didn't read the thread up until now but I just wanted to comment.

The velocity readings from AGD on my RT are 293.1, 294.3, 291.2.
That is a spread of 3.1 fps.

I'd consider that pretty damn consistant on a fresh, not broken in regulator.

Anywhere +/- 5 is good in my book and wont make much a difference.

More than that is a little crazy, but within reason. Like, my Tippmann shoots between +/- 8 to +/- 15 depending on conditions. So it can be a bit quirkey at times.

Not the most consistant gun, but still a great gun to play with. It is still accurate enough for me to get headshots at 100 feet.

Consistancy is important but it isn't something that should definine the accuracy.

Most of the time the barrel to paint match is more important. Also the velocity is only going to affect the shot at long range, plus or minus 15 fps at 75 feet won't make much of a difference.

[Beemer]

All of those chrono readings you guys are posting, are from single shots. Im interested in what the shots are doing during a fast string. We can shoot 10-15 bps, in a 1 sec string of say 10 shots, what is every single ball doing?

We dont really know do we?


WHAT is every single ball doing? We dont REALLY know.

I want to know what the FPS is on all the balls in one second at high ROF. I know there is at least one other member that posted that is curious and would like to know. Do the rest of you say who cares, it doesnt matter or it is insignificant, come back when I can ask better questions?

I will still bet large that the later balls in the string will have SOME drop off.

[latches109]

luxe

[Spider-TW]

WHAT is every single ball doing? We dont REALLY know.

I want to know what the FPS is on all the balls in one second at high ROF. I know there is at least one other member that posted that is curious and would like to know. Do the rest of you say who cares, it doesnt matter or it is insignificant, come back when I can ask better questions?

I will still bet large that the later balls in the string will have SOME drop off.
Before we build a system that can measure each and every ball, you have to look at what and where you are trying to measure.

Knowing the velocity of every ball won't necessarily indicate accuracy. A very short, over-bored barrel should give good velocity consistency but stinky accuracy.

Also, distance from the muzzle is a big factor in paintball accuracy and down range velocity. Spheres don't make the best projectile, but lumpy or wet balls are much worse. A "clean" ball will fly farther than a "dirty" ball. The point is that flight deviations caused by the barrel and ball can equal or exceed the deviations caused by muzzle velocity changes in a given distance.

I would also think that even with exact data on each ball, in the end you will be bringing the results back to statistics, if only to prove the point.

So... yes, how about some "better questions"? :D

[MANN]

luxs suxs
hey it rhymes

As soon as it gets a little warmer I am going to test my theory in distance on the yaxis. If I can rip 15bps fa @ 80' and get 8" target then I feel safe to say there is no drop off.

[BigEvil]

Before we build a system that can measure each and every ball, you have to look at what and where you are trying to measure.

Knowing the velocity of every ball won't necessarily indicate accuracy. A very short, over-bored barrel should give good velocity consistency but stinky accuracy.

Also, distance from the muzzle is a big factor in paintball accuracy and down range velocity. Spheres don't make the best projectile, but lumpy or wet balls are much worse. A "clean" ball will fly farther than a "dirty" ball. The point is that flight deviations caused by the barrel and ball can equal or exceed the deviations caused by muzzle velocity changes in a given distance.

I would also think that even with exact data on each ball, in the end you will be bringing the results back to statistics, if only to prove the point.

So... yes, how about some "better questions"? :D

I think what he is trying to get at, is which gun can perform best over a long fast string of shots as far as holding velocity - not necessarily accuracy. Barrels, paint, and long range accuracy would be irrelevant. You would just want to know at what speed each of those blazing fast paintballs would be at.

Once you can do that, then the other variables could come into play. But say we take an Emag and an autococker to test. We would set them both up for the same ROF, using the same tank, barrel, loader and paint. Then we fire each one 15 balls per second over this imaginary device and observe the results.

These are results that are as of right now impossible to determine with current equipment (to the best of my knowledge).

[Spider-TW]

I think what he is trying to get at, is which gun can perform best over a long fast string of shots as far as holding velocity - not necessarily accuracy. Barrels, paint, and long range accuracy would be irrelevant. You would just want to know at what speed each of those blazing fast paintballs would be at.

Once you can do that, then the other variables could come into play. But say we take an Emag and an autococker to test. We would set them both up for the same ROF, using the same tank, barrel, loader and paint. Then we fire each one 15 balls per second over this imaginary device and observe the results.

These are results that are as of right now impossible to determine with current equipment (to the best of my knowledge).

If cockerpunk will ever get his high speed camera, it would probably work, manually at least. I bet he's still taking donations. (who isn't?) :D

I understand the original question and I am interested in the answer. I was just looking at Beemer's question of whether we thought it would matter. What I was trying to say is that at some point it will not matter. +/-10 fps at 10 feet doesn't matter for example. Even a wet barrel will usually make that. +/-1 fps at 100 feet doesn't matter. It's a logarithmic doesn't-matter-curve. :rolleyes:

Without doing the high speed test first, we could probably figure out what a significant deviation would be. I have certain expectations of markers and the experimental results, but if you told me the opposite of what I expect, how would I know if it mattered? The answer to that is probably in some of cockerpunk's accuracy data.

[esperto96]

All of this talk of knowing/not knowing the exact velocity of a single ball in a string of shots reminds me of the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle in Physics. Individual paintballs are certainly easier to determine position/velocity than individual protons or electrons. Sorry, kind of random.

I've found that my A-5 over the chrono tends to be more consistent in single shots (+/- 2 FPS) than my my mags (+/- 4 FPS). However, in game, I find that I get tighter shot groupings overall with the mags. Anecdotal evidence and hardly scientific. It might just be that my mags have a better ergonomic fit with my body than the A-5. Or maybe I just believe in it more so the magical elves in the gun work harder to please me :p

[211]

I think we can come to a reasonable test with current equiptment
We are looking for a chrono reading mid rope to compare to a single shot reading, so....
why not just put the marker in full auto (eyes off if appropriate) so that it is cycling at a good rate, then feed it a paintball, while firing, every second or so (whatever rate the chrono will read)
It doesnt give a 100% accurate 15 readings in a 15 bps rope, but it would give a reading that is a good representation of what the marker is doing while firing at high rates

the only issue I see with doing this is feeding it, gravity feeds about 12, so loading a single paintball into a gun firing 15 bps is going to take some kind of a trick. any ideas?

[AzrealDarkmoonZ]

How many balls do you want to read the FPS? I have a chronograph next to me that will read a 20 ball string. After that its a circular buffer, mine is now 5 years old and there are some that can measure to the hundreds. Hell mine even records to the tenth of a FPS.

Az

[Hilltop Customs]

Make a barrel mountable break beam sensor that attaches like a silencer. We know the diameter of the paintball, so as long is the ball passes dead center through the sensor you can calculate its velocity by the duration of the pulse of the sensor. Hook it up to a computer, record the pulses and you will be able to calculate the velocity of any and all shots in a string.

Now @ the OP....build the break beam silencer doohickey, hook it up to the board of the gun and allow the gun to automatically control dwell to adjust the velocity based upon the previous shot velocity/ROF data. Do that and you have the most velocity consistent marker @ any ROF. BUT it still be completely dependent on the consistency of the paintballs being fired.



Now the easy, everyday version of this test.....fire a locked down marker at a long range target.(preferably indoors or with no wind) Since a lower velocity ball will take longer to strike the target, the ball will have dropped futher than a higher velocity ball. So, a shot grouping of any ROF with high variation in velocity will have a vertically oblong ellipse shape. When conducting this test the first shot has to be thrown out so use a different colored paintball for the first shot. This way is not nearly as accurate as the break beam test, but IMO that kind of fidelity doesnt really matter on a paintball field.

[Beemer]

How many balls do you want to read the FPS? I have a chronograph next to me that will read a 20 ball string. After that its a circular buffer, mine is now 5 years old and there are some that can measure to the hundreds. Hell mine even records to the tenth of a FPS.

Az

We want to read the FPS on say ten to fifteen balls in ONE SECOND. What Chrono do you have and in what time frame will it read that twenty ball string.

[Hilltop Customs]

On second thought even the slightest variation in ball diameter will result in a pretty significant change of the calculated velocity so using it for a test might not be the best choice.

I wonder how accurate those sensors are....a .69 diameter paintball traveling at 300fps would only block the sensor for ~0.000192 seconds. To measure 1fps changes you would have to be able to measure at least 0.0000005s increments. Yeeeeaaa might not work too well, cool idea bites the dust.

[Beemer]

On second thought even the slightest variation in ball diameter will result in a pretty significant change of the calculated velocity so using it for a test might not be the best choice.

We can over come those variables with a given size and weight round nylon ball and a given barrel bore.

[Hilltop Customs]

On third thought, if using 2 sensors over a range of say a few inches the accuracy of the sensor would not need to be nearly as small. The larger the distance between the senesors the less accurate the sensors would need to be....the only requirement is they are accurate enough to "notice" the ball breaking the beam. Of course this kind of ruins the idea of marker integration, but it would still work for the testing portion.

I guess this is turning into the same idea as using a high speed camera and a measuring backdrop, but all contained into a 2" or 3" barrel mountable device.




Sorry, missed your post Beemer. Using nylon balls would work, but I was kind of hoping to lead into the automatic dwell/velocity adjustment idea while using normal paint. The nylon balls would be perfect for testing though.

After playing around in execl for a few seconds; when using a single break beam sensor to calculate the velocity based upon the diameter of the the paintball, a change of overall diameter from .685 to .690 only results in a calculated difference of 1 to 2 fps.....not nearly as bad as what I first expected. Makes sense though ~1% change in diameter would result in ~1% change in calculated velocity.

[BigEvil]

On third thought, if using 2 sensors over a range of say a few inches the accuracy of the sensor would not need to be nearly as small. The larger the distance between the senesors the less accurate the sensors would need to be....the only requirement is they are accurate enough to "notice" the ball breaking the beam. Of course this kind of ruins the idea of marker integration, but it would still work for the testing portion.

I guess this is turning into the same idea as using a high speed camera and a measuring backdrop, but all contained into a 2" or 3" barrel mountable device.




Sorry, missed your post Beemer. Using nylon balls would work, but I was kind of hoping to lead into the automatic dwell/velocity adjustment idea while using normal paint. The nylon balls would be perfect for testing though.

After playing around in execl for a few seconds; when using a single break beam sensor to calculate the velocity based upon the diameter of the the paintball, a change of overall diameter from .685 to .690 only results in a calculated difference of 1 to 2 fps.....not nearly as bad as what I first expected. Makes sense though ~1% change in diameter would result in ~1% change in calculated velocity.


AHHHHHHHH HILLTOP CUSTOMS MADE MY HEAD HURT!!!

[Hilltop Customs]

its not nearly as complicated as it sounds....I'm just bad at putting thoughts into clear and concise wording sometimes.

It would require either 1 or 2 breakbeam sensors just like the ones used for the eyes of electronic markers. Just record the pulses generated by the photoresistors and you can calculate velocity either based upon ball diameter(diameter of paintball/the duration the beam is broken) or based upon two sensors(distance between 2 sensors/time between sensors being activated).


Now on to the more fun stuff.
At first I was thinking something like a pinpoint laser would be required as an emitter, because the numbers generated by the calculations would be inaccurate(but yet still extremely precise) because of the width of the "beam" emitted by the light/energy source. Reconsidering it, since we are only interested in the variation of velocity and the data would be uniformly inaccurate, a simple calibration factor would be all that is required to adjust the accuracy to the correct FPS. That probably lost some people lol.

I really like the idea of self adjusting dwell/velocity based upon the breakbeam, but if you happen to get some paint on the photoresistor the feature becomes broken and would have to work solely off of historical data until the sensor and emitter are cleaned.

If you really wanted to go crazy you could eliminate the need for ALL regulators using this system along with an input pressure sensor....you would just need a marker designed to take the input pressure. A redesigned mag valve would work pretty well, but most of its features(reg assembly, dump chamber, bolt catch) would not be needed. Literally all you would need is the bolt, power tube and the on/off. There would also be a need for a precise electronic way to control the on/off.


Thoughts anyone?

[MANN]

Thoughts anyone?
This is paintball. :p

[Hilltop Customs]

This is paintball. :p

Paintball? THIS IS AO! (kicks MANN into the giant pit)

/lame 300 reference

[MANN]

/lame 300 reference

:rofl:

on the note of what you were talking about earlier. there is a thread somewhere on AO where that Idea came up. There was an interesting conversation about it. I think that the end conclusion was that it would cost too much to become pratical.

[AzrealDarkmoonZ]

http://shootingsoftware.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=RSI&Category_Code=CED

And if I remember my email conversation with the guy who doing the hardware its good at at least 50 bps.

Az

[MANN]

I am going to give them a call this week. that looks interesting.

[Hilltop Customs]

:rofl:

on the note of what you were talking about earlier. there is a thread somewhere on AO where that Idea came up. There was an interesting conversation about it. I think that the end conclusion was that it would cost too much to become pratical.

TK posted something similar awhile back, Tom mentioned direct high input markers and, I think, a direct velocity control based off a gun mounted chrono. IDK if Tom ever went into any detail on how to make the onborad chrono possible....which is kindof where my thought started(based on a easliy adaptable and extremely portable testrig to find velocity data@ rof). Was it discussed more in depth somewhere else? I wonder why it would be so cost prohibitive, SP electronics patent?

[Miltonyz]

TK posted something similar awhile back, Tom mentioned direct high input markers and, I think, a direct velocity control based off a gun mounted chrono. IDK if Tom ever went into any detail on how to make the onborad chrono possible....which is kindof where my thought started(based on a easliy adaptable and extremely portable testrig to find velocity data@ rof). Was it discussed more in depth somewhere else? I wonder why it would be so cost prohibitive, SP electronics patent?

For the onboard chrono. Is it possible to use two different sets of breakbeam eyes and have the marker count the time between eye breakage. For example have the first set of eyes just past the bolt. The ball is fired crossing the beam and sending the signal. Six inches down the barrel another set of eyes is crossed and a new signal is set. The processor can then adjust the dwell of the marker based on its figures. Probably expensive and the code would probably be hard