ON/Off pin lengths

[Watcher]

Sorry if there is already a thread about this but I can't get the search function to work...

Will lengthening or shortening the on/off pin increase or decrease the ease of sweetspotting the trigger?

My RT Pro with an intelliframe and a o/o length of .750 can hit 20+cps and I'm sure faster with paint.

My RT Classic with a Benchmark double and a o/o length of .745 (its a bit worn) can sweetspot in the teens with paint, but can't sweepspot at all dryfiring.

The trigger rod on the Intelli is stock, so it is tuned 1mm behind the trigger after the safety slack.
The trigger rod is tuned the same on the Benchy, 1mm behind after safety slack.

Tank on both is a Crossfire 68/4500 preset 800psi output.

Both valves are well oiled and maintained, but the o-rings are a bit older on the Classic. Originally I had new o-rings on the Classic but when I got the Pro I put the new ones in the Pro and some of the Pro's in the Classic, the rest new.
Performance was unaffected.

So I'm wondering if the .005 difference in the pins is what is causing this.
I would test it myself but I have no air and am broke until I can find some work or sell some guns...

Thanks.

[211]

generally, the shorter the pin, the more RT you get
but it also depends on which oring you are using on top of the on/off

[p8ntbal4me]

Ive been saying this for a while about the length of the pins should be for reactivity in AGD valves.

As far as E-Mag/ReTro/X-Valves,.... try a pin thats .685 in length and tell me what you think.

Make SURE you actually have a digital caliper and a spare pin to try this with!

Dont cut the pin,.. SLOWLY grind it down checking it little by little.

Im sure you will like the results!

Dont go beyond .682 though,... I have not had a pin work past that number.

~ P8nt

[Watcher]

I have a standard pin-barrel caliper and it works perfectly fine, thank you :D


Shorter = more RT huh... hmm.

211, I have the single o-ring on top.


Could it be something in the rail/harline/SS line/banjo that is restricting airflow?

The trigger even feels much lighter in the Classic than the Pro.

[Spider-TW]

There's two basic things you need for RT, fast fill and low friction (high speed, low drag).

Besides air restrictions in the line, you might use your calipers on the pin depressor in each of your ASAs. One may be too long or too short by "that much". Also check the diameter of their air holes. Some are pretty small.

I find my reg pins can be a little sticky after storage for a few months. I'll start a day with a little RT and if I throw some oil down it, I may have to turn the pressure down later on because it's shooting too fast. Keep the reg piston and pin clean and slick so that they respond fast and can slam-fill the valve for good effect. That effect lasts a short time, but faster fill is more RT. Don't use grease to lube the moving orings, just a good oil. Clean the running surface of the reg pin and piston. After that, its all in the on/off and the trigger linkage.

Make sure your trigger and sear don't bind anywhere. When you compare your two markers, make sure the on/off tops are not unscrewing themselves a little, I had a loose one that would adjust itself up which is like adding shims. Also check your rail and body thicknesses. In all, you're really just tuning the linkage between the on/off top oring and the tip of the sear that catches the bolt. Like a trigger over-travel, you want it all short but reliable. On/off top and shaft orings are the hardest thing to judge. With a very short pin you can get away with hard top oring, but when you have a lot of travel in the on/off all of the friction in the top and shaft can soak up all your good RT force.

Clean reg, smooth linkage, and good air flow.

[Watcher]

I'll keep all that in mind.

I keep my stuff well oiled, thank you :D

I tried my Pro's ASA on my Classic before, no difference, so it isn't the ASAs.

Sear bearing was freshly greased before I put it away for the winter (read up on display for the winter), and still slides smoothly.

Rail is in good condition.

On off's have been tightened with a wrench and pliers so they aren't moving, I even remember switching on/off assys and it made no difference.

All the o-rings are clean and well lubed.


Pretty much, I tried everything interchangeably before and it really did nothing. Only thing I didn't try was the on/off pin in varying lengths.


Could it be possible that my valve is just poorly drilled? I heard about different valves behaving differently. Considering that I can hit 20+cps on my Pro's valve and my friend can barely hit 15cps on his e-mag in Hybrid that makes sense to me, but the RT Classic is having major restrictions then... somewhere.


I don't remember if I have it in or not, but could the little CO2 filter in-line be slowing me down?

[Spider-TW]

I don't remember if I have it in or not, but could the little CO2 filter in-line be slowing me down?
Definitely. Especially if it ever got any real use. They were a good idea, but some CO2 is so dirty you have to decide whether or not you want to play with it because it can plug up a filter in a few fills. Not too many fields like that anymore, but I still get plenty of black stuff in my CO2 mag at times. I've had some air that would kill the old PTP filters too.

[Watcher]

Ok, I'll remove it and test it again when I get some air...