..want to run 3000psi directly...

[malJohann]

So I want to run 3000psi directly to my Tac-One from a 3000psi 114ci Air America tank. What would I need to replace the regulator with? I assume I would need to run a steel braided line? Any other considerations that I'm missing? Would the FPS be affected at all as the pressure drops?

[MANN]

I have hooked my scubas up directly. It is rather fun from time to time. I am not sure what regulator you can hook up to your bottle. You could probally "gut it", but you didnt get the idea from me. I personally would use ss hardline, but that is just me.

zakvetter has an example on his website

[malJohann]

Any longevity issues that is foreseeable? Parts that will need more frequent replacement? Possible catastrophic failure of certain parts? Special sealing methods for the lines (whether SS or braided)? To clarify, I'm planning on playing like this every time I go out.

[Swamp Thing]

Seels a little bit of overkill and personally I would check the specs on any line you use to see it is rated for that kind of PSI.

Swamp

[Dawg047]

I'm not sure what you would replace the valve with. Maybe a regular C02 pin valve with some 4.5k burst disks if the C02 pin vlave isn't different threds than an HPA reg (Never thought about this, don't even know if it would work). I know you can get hose rated well over 3K. The hose on our compressor on the fill station holds well over 5K of pressure and it gets used everday for fills and has 1/8NPT ends, It is not braided either, just like a super macroline. I would definately check the hosing used for fill stations.

[Shane-O-Mac]

Keep in mind that feeding that much pressure into the valve, you will probably get horrendous run away trigger action, like uncontrolable. Maybe not though. Next thing, I would gut the original reg and keep it on there. I cant think of anything else I would replace it with and expect to be safe at 3000psi, especially since it wont have any burst disks.

Now the second part of your question, as the tank pressure goes down, your reg on the gun will increase in pressure. So as the tank actually gets emptier, your mag will start shooting higher FPS, not safe really.

Now if you have your heart set on stupid near run away trigger action, use the reg as it is intended to be, set it at 1100psi, and get a ULT trigger kit and adjust it to where you want it. The mag I used recently would darn near run away on me and it was being fed approximately 900psi. The ULT trigger kit is what you are looking for IMO.

[crazyjoe12]

doesnt the ult kit take away the rt action?

[MANN]

doesnt the ult kit take away the rt action?

not if tuned correctly.

[Tunaman]

You arwe going to get hurt. I would NOT recommend it. That is maximum operating pressure of the valve. Other stuff could burst like fittings and airlines. Dont do it. The ony benefit might be a free trip to the hospital...or morgue.

[BigEvil]

Dont do it. The ony benefit might be a free trip to the hospital...or morgue.


Natural Selection at its best. :)

But seriously, listen to Tuna. Even if you could make it 100% safe, your velocity would probably be all over the place. (remember: Lower pressure = greater consistency /higher pressure = greater rof)

[malJohann]

Tunaman, I sent you a PM.

I'm in contact with Zak Vetter via e-mail too, and he says the RT valve will vent continuously above 1200psi trying to bring the pressure down. Also, that the ideal pressure for hyper RT (in the 30bps range) is between 1600-1800psi. Those facts, and that what I originally thought (that the valve is rated at 3000psi, meaning I thought it was designed to be safe at that pressure, not that its the maximum pressure it can take) kills it for me. The last thing I want to be is a lethal threat to myself and others.


I would gut the original reg and keep it on there. I cant think of anything else I would replace it with and expect to be safe at 3000psi, especially since it wont have any burst disks.

Actually it would have had burst disks, since I would just replace the LP side burst disks with the same as what is found in the HP side of the regulator.


Now the second part of your question, as the tank pressure goes down, your reg on the gun will increase in pressure. So as the tank actually gets emptier, your mag will start shooting higher FPS, not safe really.

Why is this for interest sake?


Now if you have your heart set on stupid near run away trigger action, use the reg as it is intended to be, set it at 1100psi, and get a ULT trigger kit and adjust it to where you want it. The mag I used recently would darn near run away on me and it was being fed approximately 900psi. The ULT trigger kit is what you are looking for IMO.

No, I don't want a run-away marker, just a hyper RT that can still fire single shots, and all adjustable air systems seem to be going the way of the Dodo, so this seemed like the logical direction.


not if tuned incorrectly.

Fixed. ;)



You arwe going to get hurt. I would NOT recommend it. That is maximum operating pressure of the valve. Other stuff could burst like fittings and airlines. Dont do it. The ony benefit might be a free trip to the hospital...or morgue.

Natural Selection at its best. :)

But seriously, listen to Tuna. Even if you could make it 100% safe, your velocity would probably be all over the place. (remember: Lower pressure = greater consistency /higher pressure = greater rof)

Cool. Thanks for the feedback guys. Consider this idea canned and may this thread serve for future reference to similar questions (since its inevitable that other mag noobs will ask the same question sometime). AO is always golden for relevant technical feedback, which is why I asked the question here. Oh, and due to me continuously plaguing Zak Vetter over the past 2 weeks, he decided to update his site with new information (which he is still busy with), he said he should be finished early next week, but there's new info already.

[BigEvil]

Hey MJ - just so you know, there are ways to get the gun to rapid fire without cranking up the input pressure.

Also, by "rated for 3000 psi" means that the product can withstand pressure up to 3000psi safely without basically exploding. ZMan is correct in stating that the safe operation pressure is up to 1200 psi. Anything over that it is designed to vent as a safety feature.

[Shane-O-Mac]

The reg will go up in pressure as the pressure input to it goes down. Its all about a balancing act. The incoming air pushes on a piston and a spring, so when that incoming air drops in pressure, the spring pushes back against the reg pin harder, which opens the reg more for more output pressure. Thats whole reason for 2 regulators on a gun. A mag didnt need 2 regs as originally when used with a co2 tank, the co2 tank self regulates itself somewhat and keeps a pressure of about 600-900psi. A 300 psi swing will only change a reg about 10-15 psi, and very little velocity change. But a 2000psi swing will change the output anywhere from 75psi to 175psi or more. Standard primary regs (on the airtank) will have a swing of about 15psi (for the really good systems) to 100psi or more (for crappy systems and many screw-in tanks) from full to 800psi. So adding a secondary reg to a gun will stabilize the tanks function to where the input to the secondary reg will make the output of it be 1-2psi, not enough to see a difference. Being that the Mag has a secondary reg built in, you only need one air system for them, and no secondary reg.

[malJohann]

Hey MJ - just so you know, there are ways to get the gun to rapid fire without cranking up the input pressure.

If you're not talking about the ULT mod and if its not runaway, then how?


Also, by "rated for 3000 psi" means that the product can withstand pressure up to 3000psi safely without basically exploding. ZMan is correct in stating that the safe operation pressure is up to 1200 psi. Anything over that it is designed to vent as a safety feature.

Right. Got that already, but thanks anyway.


The reg will go up in pressure as the pressure input to it goes down. Its all about a balancing act. The incoming air pushes on a piston and a spring, so when that incoming air drops in pressure, the spring pushes back against the reg pin harder, which opens the reg more for more output pressure. Thats whole reason for 2 regulators on a gun. A mag didnt need 2 regs as originally when used with a co2 tank, the co2 tank self regulates itself somewhat and keeps a pressure of about 600-900psi. A 300 psi swing will only change a reg about 10-15 psi, and very little velocity change. But a 2000psi swing will change the output anywhere from 75psi to 175psi or more. Standard primary regs (on the airtank) will have a swing of about 15psi (for the really good systems) to 100psi or more (for crappy systems and many screw-in tanks) from full to 800psi. So adding a secondary reg to a gun will stabilize the tanks function to where the input to the secondary reg will make the output of it be 1-2psi, not enough to see a difference. Being that the Mag has a secondary reg built in, you only need one air system for them, and no secondary reg.

Good info. That clarifies it completely for me.

[MANN]

an rt on/off with 1000-1200 psi is usually very reactive.

[malJohann]

an rt on/off with 1000-1200 psi is usually very reactive.

Right, but if you read through my Air America Apocalypse thread on the first page in the Tech Forum, you'll see that mine isn't although it looks like it's because the tank regulator needs a service kit.

That said, I did run between 1000 and 1200psi during some of my tests with results that were'nt very good. My Tac-One is also in perfect condition, so I guess it must be what Shane-O-Mac said in that thread.

Getting anything to South-Africa from the US is just freaky expensive (at least $40 US in shipping and then import tax on top of that), but I guess that's what I'll have to do if I want a safe, yet highly reactive setup.