ALL ASTM Team

[Beemer]

Could an ALL ASTM team compete in todays paintball world?? Oh wait they droped the BPS down to TEN BUT I have guys that CAN shoot faster then that to ASTM standards.

Before you vote you might want to ask some questions.

For starters its one shot one pull. NO mech or E bounce AT ALL. YOU Have to pull it[skill]

Like I said ask some questions and be informed BEFORE you vote.

Is a return assist[AGD RT against ASTM????] Is it TRUE semi[no] is it still OSOP?? I say yes.

So My ASTM team has some FAST and SLOW shooters, one shot one pull.

My fast guys can really do 12 PLUS SPS and my slow guys are at 10 or less, but none the less we are a Pro/Am team playing the circuit[for 5 plus years] with some GREAT sponsorship and we KNOW tactics and strategy and play well as a TEAM.[ALL ASTM]

So our PAINT and GUNS meet or exceed ASTM standards, CAN we compete and WIN????

Oh ya dont forget the Paint ASTM standards cause THAT is what we are using. I will say more and post the standards in my next post. Ask yourself this, how big and how heavy is the PAINT you are using????

[TeamBob]

Um, i may be a :tard: but i have no idea what you are talking about :tard:

[Beemer]

^^^^Well its all about where we were and WHERE we are NOW.

As in ROF modes ASTM standards etc..... We need to ask the questions and get answers.
But alas NO ONE is ASKING the Questions.

[TeamBob]

what is/are the ASTM standards

[Beemer]

what is/are the ASTM standards

See, now thats a question. Stand by and I will answer. Thats my whole point WE stopped asking QUESTIONS.

[chill will]

i am ready to be enlightened. :hail:

As i wait, I will say that in competative sports ones limitations or advances in technology does not garantee a win or loss.

[chafnerjr]

I'll join in asking... WTF? ASTM? I'm still wondering about how mags fit into just about any of the new rules... good thing I don't play tourny any more... haven't in years. I like my paintball just the way I started... but I get hounded every so often to get back in so mark me as interested in whatever ASTM is.

[BigEvil]

Im still a little unclear on the rules. Im not sure mechs are allowed since there is no way to cap the rof.

So are you asking, that if one team is ramping, and one team is playing semi, can the semi team compete?

Personally, I HATE the 10 bps cap. I can out shoot that in semi.

[Beemer]

I'll join in asking... WTF? ASTM? I'm still wondering about how mags fit into just about any of the new rules... good thing I don't play tourny any more... haven't in years. I like my paintball just the way I started... but I get hounded every so often to get back in so mark me as interested in whatever ASTM is.

American Society for Testing and Materials.

THEY still make RED paint.....

Designation: F 1979 – 04
Standard Specification for
Paintballs Used in the Sport of Paintball

3.4 Fill Color Limitations—The paintballs shall not contain
fill material with a color mimicking that of human blood.



Im still a little unclear on the rules. Im not sure mechs are allowed since there is no way to cap the rof.

So are you asking, that if one team is ramping, and one team is playing semi, can the semi team compete? YES

Personally, I HATE the 10 bps cap. I can out shoot that in semi.

I heard you were fast on the trig................you are on the Team arent you?


Designation: F 2272 – 03
Standard Specification for
Paintball Markers (Limited Modes)1

3.1.20 semi-automatic mode marker—a semi-automatic
marker discharges one time with each trigger cycle. Markers
that “store” the number of trigger pulls and discharge more
than one paintball at some point do not meet this definition.
Markers that operate in any other discharge mode(s) do not
meet this definition.

6.5.2 All paintball markers intended to be used with refillable
cylinders shall be able to withstand input pressure of three
thousand pounds per square inch 207 bar (3000 psi) without
catastrophic failure. Leaking in a manner which would not
cause injury to the operator shall not constitute failure.


6.5.4 All paintball markers shall only operate in semiautomatic
or pump mode and may not operate in other
discharge modes such as burst, enhanced trigger or fullyautomatic
discharge mode.

[Hilltop Customs]

what would the limitation be which stopped the ASTM team from being competitive? :confused:

[maniacmechanic]

would most markers made today meet this spec ;

6.5.2 All paintball markers intended to be used with refillable
cylinders shall be able to withstand input pressure of three
thousand pounds per square inch 207 bar (3000 psi) without
catastrophic failure. Leaking in a manner which would not
cause injury to the operator shall not constitute failure.

I wonder if they are even tested to see if they will

[warbeak2099]

would most markers made today meet this spec ;

6.5.2 All paintball markers intended to be used with refillable
cylinders shall be able to withstand input pressure of three
thousand pounds per square inch 207 bar (3000 psi) without
catastrophic failure. Leaking in a manner which would not
cause injury to the operator shall not constitute failure.

I wonder if they are even tested to see if they will

I'm sure they'd be fine, but they'd definitely leak. Only something like a Mag or a Tippmann would hold air under that. Maybe an AKA, but I'm not sure what their LPR's can handle.

[Beemer]

Doh I forgot the All ASTM Team Paintball standards. Our paint meets or exceeds these standards. Would that give us an advantage??? How BIG and HEAVY is YOUR paint???

We have a GOOD paint sponsor. I once asked someone in the know what kind of paint would be best. They said the smallest and heaviest SOB you can get. :ninja:

Did I mention we have a GOOD Barrel sponsor also. I could give you the specs on ours but you wouldnt buy it and if I told you I would have to :shooting: you. :argh: There are no ASTM standards on barrels. Ahh hell I will tell you :D ........There is NO porting and all lengths are ten inches or less. Do to NDForms I cant say what the bore is but after you read the standards you shoud be able to figure it out. ;)

As I said we meet the standards and are at Minimum size[equator and polls] and MAX weight. :ninja: We hardly ever get barrel breaks or breach chops. We dont OVER FORCE feed the paint and we dont out shoot the feed. :tard:

Our ASTM Paint breaks on target not in the gun. :clap:

Designation: F 1979 – 04
Standard Specification for
Paintballs Used in the Sport of Paintball

3. General Requirements
3.1 pH of Fill Material—The pH of the fill used in the
paintball shall measure between 4.5 and 7.5 as measured using
a 10 % solution of the fill in distilled water. Measurements
shall be made using a properly calibrated pH meter.
3.2 Paintball Fill Compatibility With Polycarbonate—
When tested in accordance with Section 4, no more than one of
the three polycarbonate tensile bars exposed to the fill material
shall develop a visible crack that is greater than 6.5 mm (0.256
in.) in length.
3.3 Maximum Weight—The paintballs shall not weigh more
than 3.5 g.3.4 Fill Color Limitations—The paintballs shall not contain
fill material with a color mimicking that of human blood.
3.5 Diameter of Paintball—The diameter of the paintball as
measured both polar and at the seam shall measure between
16.5 mm (0.650 in.) and 18 mm (0.709 in.).
3.6 Impact Breakage—The impact breakage of the paintball
shall be tested in accordance with Section 5. All ten of the
paintballs that impact the target shall break upon impact.
3.7 Environmental Safety—Paintballs shall not contain environmentally
hazardous substances as defined in CERCLA2
Regulations 40CFR302.4; SARAToxic Chemical List3 Section
313; Clean Air Act4, Section 112B; and RCRA Regulations5
40FRR261.24 through 40CFR261.33.

5. Paintball Impact Breakage Test
5.1 Scope—This test method is intended to determine the
ability of the paintballs to burst upon impact.
5.2 Summary of Test Method—This test method involves
shooting paintballs from a paintgun at a target, within the
parameters of this specification, to test for the breakage of the
paintballs upon the target.
5.3 Significance and Use—In the sport of paintball, a player
who is marked with fill of a paintball is eliminated from the
game, and thus it is desirable that a paintball be designed
within parameters such that its outer shell can split open and
allow its fill to mark the player. This test method provides a
means of identifying the breakage ability of paintballs within
parameters that reasonably approximate conditions common in
the game of paintball. This test method provides a means of
identifying the breakage of paintballs by impacting a target at
a velocity common in the game of paintball.
5.4 Sampling—Select 30 paintballs at random from the lot
of paintballs being tested.
5.5 Apparatus:
5.5.1 The propelling device shall be capable of hurling
paintballs horizontally at a speed of 85.3 +,- 6 m/s (280+,-20
ft/s). Each muzzle velocity shall be measured and if not within
tolerance, that impact is not valid.

5.5.2 Equipment employed to measure the speed of the test
paintball shall be accurate to within +,- 0.5m/s [+,- 20ft/s]
muzzle velocity.
5.6 Conditioning:
5.6.1 All impact testing shall be done using paintballs
manufactured within the previous 8 months.
5.6.2 Paintball storage and the non-test handling shall
done at a relative humidity below 65 % and a temperature
between 19°C (66°F) and 27°C (80°F).
5.6.3 Paintballs shall be conditioned in their original sealed
container for at least 4 h at the humidity and temperature
specified in 5.6.2.
5.6.4 The testing shall be conducted at the temperatures
specified in 5.6.2 and shall be completed within 10 min
removal of the paintball from the sealed container.
paintball container shall be resealed immediately after
group of paintballs is removed.
5.7 Procedure:
5.7.1 Secure a plywood target with a minimum thickness
10-mm vertically at a distance of 24.4 6 0.3-m (80 6
linear ground distance from the muzzle of the propelling
device. Width and length of the target to be of a size that
laboratory determines necessary to hit the target.
5.7.2 Measure the velocity of the paintball within 1.0 m
ft) of the muzzle of the propelling device. Paintball velocity
shall be 85.3 6 6 m/s (280 6 20 ft/s).
5.7.3 Impact the plywood target with ten paintballs
angle nominally normal to the target and at the distance
accordance with 5.7.1. Only those shots that are within
velocity tolerance in accordance with 5.7.2 shall be used in
test method.

[turbo chicken]

that is some tiny paint!!!

[Lohman446]

I can live within ATSM standards. The question becomes can such a team compete at a high level without cheating?

[Looper]

We need to ask the questions and get answers.
But alas NO ONE is ASKING the Questions.No, Nobody want to pay $32~$37 dollars for each document to learn what the ASTM standards are... I would love to read these standards but I'm not willing to shell out that amount of cash to only realize that the manufactures are not making the products to the standards... I think you need to turn the "Consumer Reports" magazine loose on this and let them strong arm the industry into submission.

Or am I missing the point of your posts...¿? :confused:

[Lohman446]

No, Nobody want to pay $32~$37 dollars for each document to learn what the ASTM standards are... I would love to read these standards but I'm not willing to shell out that amount of cash to only realize that the manufactures are not making the products to the standards... I think you need to turn the "Consumer Reports" magazine loose on this and let them strong arm the industry into submission.

Or am I missing the point of your posts...¿? :confused:


Its going to have to fall on a sanctioning body. For instance in baseball / softball you cannot use a bat without the ASA stamp on it indicating it meets a certain relevant criteria of safety standards. If WE demanded tournaments that met some certain standards (American Paintball Association or whatever) and required manufacturers to meet and be certified to those standards (stamp on every marker / case of paint / headgear) we could do it. However, noone is even raising safety questions anymore, and we are going to wait until we have proven we cannot police ourselves and let the government do it. I'm sorry, but with noone meeting ANY published and accepted safety standards we are leaving the door open for both criminal and civil penalties.

[Beemer]

I can live within ATSM standards. The question becomes can such a team compete at a high level without cheating?

No, the question becomes can such a team compete at a high level and WIN without cheating? We can and did compete at a high level without cheating. We can and did compete and win at a high level without cheating. Except for the ten percent rule.

Its a contradiction. On our ten man team the ten percent rule says one of us was cheating.

We knew we were getting cheated on more then that by other teams. So ya I see your point.

I cant change the poll now but it should say.........Can an all ASTM Team that doesnt cheat compete and win? I would still say yes. Comming off the field[losing] knowing WE didnt cheat and they did, makes us the winners.

The fun is in playing the GAME not the win and there in lies the problem with paintball today.

If you practice to beat the cheats it can be done with good strategy and tactics without cheating. :cheers:

[Lohman446]

No, the question becomes can such a team compete at a high level and WIN without cheating? We can and did compete at a high level without cheating. We can and did compete and win at a high level without cheating. Except for the ten percent rule.

Its a contradiction. On our ten man team the ten percent rule says one of us was cheating.

We knew we were getting cheated on more then that by other teams. So ya I see your point.

I cant change the poll now but it should say.........Can an all ASTM Team that doesnt cheat compete and win? I would still say yes. Comming off the field[losing] knowing WE didnt cheat and they did, makes us the winners.

The fun is in playing the GAME not the win and there in lies the problem with paintball today.

If you practice to beat the cheats it can be done with good strategy and tactics without cheating. :cheers:


You can and DID - and thats one of the key terms. Four years ago I would have said it could be done, it would have been harder but it could be done. Ten years ago I would have said cheating was the exception. But cheating is like a virus, and it spreads expodentially. Not counting the moral victory you cannot compete in todays high level paintball competitions and WIN consistantly without cheating. Most of the players at a high competetive level were brought in when learning wiping was part of learning the team, and a skill for public discussion and bragging. Of course there will be exceptions, but I am talking high level general paintball public tournaments.

[neppo1345]

No, the question becomes can such a team compete at a high level and WIN without cheating? We can and did compete at a high level without cheating. We can and did compete and win at a high level without cheating. Except for the ten percent rule.

Its a contradiction. On our ten man team the ten percent rule says one of us was cheating.

We knew we were getting cheated on more then that by other teams. So ya I see your point.

I cant change the poll now but it should say.........Can an all ASTM Team that doesnt cheat compete and win? I would still say yes. Comming off the field[losing] knowing WE didnt cheat and they did, makes us the winners.

The fun is in playing the GAME not the win and there in lies the problem with paintball today.

If you practice to beat the cheats it can be done with good strategy and tactics without cheating. :cheers:

ITT: We read the USPL rules and note they call out ASTM standards for GOGGLES, GUNS, PAINT, BARREL BLOCKERS, ETC, ETC.

Therefore, all ASTM teams do compete at the highest level and win without cheating.

If your 10 man 'league' has something less in their rules then thats your choice to play in that league and you shouldn't complain.
If your 'field' has something less in their rules then that's your choice to play at that field and you shouldn't complain.

If you're playing USPL (or in another league with the same/similar rules), and using a gun, paint, goggles, barrel blocker that does not comply with ASTM standards, you are indeed cheating.

Therefore this entire argument reduces to:

"Can a team that's not cheating compete with a team that is cheating?"

The answer is obviously 'yes'; you answered it yourself.

I still fail to see the point of this thread.

EDIT: N.M.