Why do people think paintball is dead or dying?

[chafnerjr]

Alright... every few months I keep seeing threads talking about what killed paintball... or why paintball is dying. I hear everything from high ROF markers, to cheating, to SMART Parts killed the radio star. Lack of NPPL or other such organization (adoption rate). I just don't get the idea... paintball is alive and strong. No it's not organized... it never was! "Back in the day" to me means me, my family and friends out in the woods... Screw having a governing body, we made it all up as we went. We covered all of our own reffing and the like and boy oh boy we played from 9am until we couldn't see any more every single weekend! Still can if we want to, but we play at local fields now.

Now I've played at many other fields that I have either liked or not... (mostly not) and seen plenty of paintball stores go out of business. (They tend not to last very long generally, depending on the area). But this has ALWAYS been the case. So here's the question... is it just that the ideal field or the ideal day of paintball has alluded some? Seriously there are more fields, markers, masks, etc. now-a-days then ever before. I guess that I just don't understand. Can you all help me here?

:cheers:

[afortuna]

Cost of paint and accessibility to a field for the occassional player.

[Miltonyz]

Paint is cheaper then it's ever been. At my local field RPS Stinger is 45 a case. Ask some of the old guys how much they paid for paint back in the day.

[JMD00]

To respond to Miltonyz's post, when I first started playing(almost 20 years ago), paint was $120 a case and the quality was usable at best and more usually it was bad(not round, varying size, and the seams were horrendous).

[chafnerjr]

Paint is cheaper then it's ever been. At my local field RPS Stinger is 45 a case. Ask some of the old guys how much they paid for paint back in the day.

I used to pay $40/case right from Taso in '97 and I pay $55/case now with a $10 discount from the field... byop days are back around $40/case. (I wish my field had marballizer... my favorite!) they run RPS something or other. I was running some cheap killer beez last season that played out pretty well.

Was everyone getting jacked back in the day?

[Zone Drifter]

chafnerjr, I think the only reason people say it's dying is because they don't want to spend money on it. I play with a team, and half of them play all the time while the other half just kinda show up when they feel like it, just them living their own lives taking the reigns. I've met you before actually, at Fox 4. At that time nobody wanted to play because of money, but i said screw it and went, knowing i'd meet some cool people there. (gotta love mag toters) My choice of paint that day was my undoing, so i left early, but I totally had fun with you guys.

We play in the woods all the time, and with any kind of gun from a Sheridan to the Ions. I think paintball is getting stronger, and I've even gotten a couple guys in my school into it. :)

[chafnerjr]

Alright... so paint is cheaper now-a-days. That's a good thing right? We're not trying to be elitist right? I'm still trying to understand the paintball is dead/dying theories. Know what I mean. I think it's doing great@!

[dave p]

it is dieing, and the sooner the better.

and there are less guns available than ever, not more. you can get a tippman, dye, smartparts, some K2 wgp crap or some chinese made POS. unless you want to go used.

people have had enough, of the high prices, the high stakes B.S., and the big business side of paintball. as soon as it collapses, we will start seeing:

american pb manufacturers again, who are small, and care.
small fields that are cool to play at
the game will go back to having fun instead of making money, it will be grass roots again, and sustain itself for the sake of playing. not competing. the way it used to be.

guaranteed, as soon as paintball stops becoming profitable, all the conglomerates like K2 will drop it like a hot potatoe.
and maybe smartparts will dissapear as well.

hopefully it will become too expensive for 13 y.o. kids moms to bankroll.
that means:
all the fashion crap will go away
the immaturity will decrease
maybe used gear prices will go back up
it will go back to being an adult game, like it used to be


please, please let it DIE
then all the front runners will go away. GOOD RIDDANCE

[Miltonyz]

and there are less guns available than ever, not more. you can get a tippman, dye, smartparts, some K2 wgp crap or some chinese made POS. unless you want to go used.

I think we tend to look at the past days of paintball with rose colored lenses. To say that there is less variety then ever would be wrong. In the days of the mechs there were to main tourny guns the autococker in all it's variations, and the mag. Now you can choose from a larger variety.


people have had enough, of the high prices, the high stakes B.S., and the big business side of paintball. as soon as it collapses,

1. prices are low for paint, and you can get good reliable guns for cheap if you want if you don't need to buy the newest gear. Pick up a couple years old DM or Ego they will have everything you need or could want at a substantial discount. Or you can find used Mini's on the nation for 200 bucks.

2. It's silly to complain about high prices and then want to get rid of big business. Big business is what makes things cheap. Economies of scale is why you can buy an orange shipped from Florida for a buck. And the fact they want to be in paintball is a good sign. It means that the consumer base is large enough to attract such business. I'm glad 13 year old kids play paintball. The sport isn't going to grow if we don't attract new people. 13 year old kids can be dorks and rough to deal with, but at their age they are moldable. It's up to us to provide an example to these kids. It's amazing how much positive feedback you can get by simply being nice to people, and helping them. While at the same time setting boundaries about what sort of behavior is acceptable. Sitting 50 yards away kvetching about how kids these days have no respect helps no one.

[dave p]

2. It's silly to complain about high prices and then want to get rid of big business. Big business is what makes things cheap. Economies of scale is why you can buy an orange shipped from Florida for a buck. And the fact they want to be in paintball is a good sign. It means that the consumer base is large enough to attract such business. I'm glad 13 year old kids play paintball. The sport isn't going to grow if we don't attract new people. 13 year old kids can be dorks and rough to deal with, but at their age they are moldable. It's up to us to provide an example to these kids. It's amazing how much positive feedback you can get by simply being nice to people, and helping them. While at the same time setting boundaries about what sort of behavior is acceptable. Sitting 50 yards away kvetching about how kids these days have no respect helps no one.
big business is what makes things suck quality wise also. big business doesnt care if you live or die, someone will buy their cheap crap.

im not complaining about high prices. i want kids priced out of the game, plain and simple.

and there is a difference between rose colored glasses and reality.

one of us here sees the reality.

[chafnerjr]

I see a lot of opinions on how the game should be played, who should be allowed, what should be supported... but that has always been the individual preference of the player, and it has always been as varied. That's why there are different fields, and home pick up woods games. Maybe the real question is whether or not pro play is dying, but that's not what really what I mean. Are people not lining up in droves to play? I see players everywhere in my area (New England / NH, ME, MA). Is anyone seeing the opposite? Are whole area drying up? Is it being looked down upon? I just can't agree with the "It's too expensive" argument simply because it isn't... well at least in the US.

[Miltonyz]

big business is what makes things suck quality wise also. big business doesnt care if you live or die, someone will buy their cheap crap.

Big business doesn't decide what to make, the consumer decides. If the consumer wants price over quality business supplies that. If they want quality over price then it will make quality products. You can see that in the spectrum of products offered. You can get cheap low-quality spyders or very expensive but quality Dye guns. Or from what I've read the Mini is a quality gun and cheap.
I would have to ask you when quality was better then it was now. Was it when we all shot autocockers that we pumped tons of money into and had to time. Or mags which are very quality but many shoddy upgrades were sold to us.


im not complaining about high prices. i want kids priced out of the game, plain and simple.

Awesome, then in twenty years paintball will really die.

[dave p]

Or mags which are very quality but many shoddy upgrades were sold to us.



Awesome, then in twenty years paintball will really die.
because quality wasnt enough obviously, you can blame that on ignorance.once AGD started taking the opinions of 13 y/o kids seriously, on a public forum to boot, it started going downhill for them, because no matter what they did(and it went far beyond what anyone could hope for, we got intelliframes, lvl 10 and ult. we got a company owner that would talk to his customers, subsidised upgrade programs, and no stone left unturned as far as research and facts are concerned) still, no one was satisfied, it wasnt enough. if you cant please that, then its a lost cause. no small wonder tom left. any adult would see the reality in that. the children could not. enter the ion, a cheap piece of crap, that everyone loved. and bought tons of (im sure sub grade) aftermarket upgrades for. because having it right the first time was not enough.
you are f-ing delusional.

paintball will never die, the current state of paintball hopefully will. and like a phoenix it will rise again to be something good.

[chafnerjr]

Personally I hope that the 13 year olds will never stop playing. A good ref staff and skilled players are all you need to curb the bad habits and teach them. I started playing when I was 14 (12 years ago) and played with a lot of younger kids (one of which is a ref @ OSG now). I'm sure you don't like playing with the kids in your area, but I am sure that there is a particular reason... i.e. too many people at that field? Bad ref staff? or a poor core of players.

[dark blade]

i think paintball is like a roadtrip... it started out with people in a van saying "ok, what now?" and so it just started going... and going... and going. And then it came to an exit and they all said "nah, lets keep going this way"

Then after a while of driving they got adventurous and a bit tired and said "lets turn off here and see where it takes us" so they did and then they took a rest and started driving again.

Instead of getting back on the highway they kept going on backroads and eventually got lost and didnt know exactly what to do or what was going.




Thats where paintball is now... its "lost" in my eyes. Its not dieing, it just needs to find the right path again. With all of the kids out there thinking that the better the marker the better the player its no wonder that everyone gets pissy at the field when they lose with an ego 8 or a sl8r. They instantly blame the marker and trade it off for some other "highend" and dont spend the time to learn how to play and get good sportsmanship habits.

With children growing up playing video games by themselves they dont need to learn good sportsmanship, they can swear and freak out all the time and think nothing of it.

Im not blaming the higher companies for makign highend markers, i am blaming the parents for not teaching them respect to others when playing sports and to follow the rules.

Between the little electrosuckers out there, the lack of good reffing, and the lack of good sportsmanship... it seems like paintball is dead because everyone who plays eventually gives up due to having enough of those 3 things.

Now-a-days though, for every 1 person who gives up their gear, there are 2 more joining the sport. So i wouldnt so much say that paintball is dieing as i would say that it is a short lived hobby for most. Now-a-days if someone plays paintball for more than 4 years of their life it becomes a surprise.


But paintball is not dead, its just not what it use to be... even 5 years ago when i started playing it was a totally different sport and everyone was very inviting, and now... not so much.

[Miltonyz]

The Ion is a cheap piece of crap. Heck I thought the Impulse was a piece of crap and it was much more expensive. However the Ion is a cheap piece of crap that filled a market niche.

The automag is a great gun. I love them. But sadly their market niche is small.

I'm not sure how we got on that tangent though. You said quality sucked now and used to be much better. I think quality of both paint and gear is better is better then it's ever been. Sure the ion is poop, but back in the day there where plenty of poop guns.

As for your hatred of kids there is not much to say. How much fun you have playing paintball is completely up to you. You dont wanna play with little punks find some older friends to play with. Find a field that regulates attitudes better. Change your attitude.

[rb211]

To me, from 20+ years playing the sport, there are several things that have affected it:

1. Prices.

There is good and bad in this. Cost of paint has gone down, I remember the $120 days of paint. If it were that much now, I probably wouldn't be playing still.

Entry fees for tournaments have gone up over 20 years. The first tournament I played in (woods) was $25. It's a lot more than that now that "big business" has gotten involved and has turned things into a 3 ring circus.

The general outlook equipment-wise (this is the player's fault). The average tournament player seems to believe that if you are not shooting the newest and greatest $1500 gun, that you are playing with inferior equipment and will get slaughtered on the field. Skill has been replaced by equipment ability in a lot of player's minds. I distinctly remember 2 tourney players getting all kinds of upset because I whacked both of them with a Minimag - not because I had probably been playing paintball longer than they were alive, but because of the Minimag. :tard:

2. The player.

On the field: Attitudes have changed drastically over the years. Back then, cheating wasn't hardly anything of a factor in the games. As I remember it the sportsmanship of the game was taken very seriously. Today, I see people cheating like crazy!

Back then, I was never threatened by a 12 year old that he would kick my a** because I shot him out, now, well at least I get a good laugh when it has happened :rofl: . Look on Youtube, plenty of fistfights are on there that are paintball related. It's just a game!

Off the field: Well, some are just stupid. Getting in the car on a friday night and doing a paintball drive-by on the local wino on the park bench is not the best thing that the player has conributed to the sport. Yes, this has nothing to do with the sport itself, but the media doesn't distinguish that. When I first started playing, you didn't hear of such things.

People tinkering with markers or tanks when they have no idea of what they are doing. Shooting their eyes out or their friends when they are trying to shoot the apple off of their head is just plain stupid - once again, the media makes it worse when they get a hold of these stories / videos. Air tanks blowing up or turning into missiles because the owner just has to take the valve off and grease or oil it in every area that it isn't supposed to be because "it will work better". Respect your gear, and it will take care of you. If you don't know what you are doing or haven't been trained, don't mess with it!

These things contribute negatively to the overall image of the sport, and it is being done in a manner that the media gets involved and throws it into the toilet faster than you can deposit a fresh loaf.


3. Manufacturers

They have played things good and bad. They have brought paintball to the spotlight, and they are also pushing it out of the spotlight.

How many of us are really willing to spend in the $1000+ range for a gun every year to keep up with the latest "fad gun" or equipment? I'm certainly not. I don't need a Dye Rotor that can feed balls faster than any gun can, my Reloader B handles it just fine. My 6 year old Attack Pack carries pods of paint just as good as the first day I used it. Spending $200 on the latest agg pants and jersey - forget it! Jeans and a t-shirt do me just fine, just as it did 20+ years ago, well, shorts in the dead of the summer..... But as I stated above, they have led the average player to believe that it is necessary to have the high dollar stuff to be competitive.

Could I keep up with the latest? Sure, but I choose not to as far as having the newest guns / equipment. I have 4 Impulses right now, now all of them back in their day were $1000+ guns (private label models). I don't have more than $250-300 in any of them fully upgraded (that and I won't buy new SP guns because of their business practices). They can be heavy after toting them for a while, but your Ego, Luxe, DM50, or anything else isn't going to shoot 15bps (or lower, depending on what league / division you are in) any faster than any of mine, and I don't have the problems that I see some of the others having with reliability.

Point being, most new players don't think they can be competitive unless they have all the new stuff, unless they get around people who show them that they can be competitive by concentrating on playing the game smart instead of relying on their gear to get them through the game. I believe this is why SP, Dye, and others have brought out the cheaper lines like the Ion, SLG, etc. They see that a lot of players dont have the money or parental subsidy to buy the top of the line guns, so they have introduced alternatives. One of the smartest business moves I have seen from them.

Business practice - well, we have had enough of those discussions on here to where most of us know what has happened to companies over the years. There are cheerleaders and haters for every company out there, deserved and undeserved.

4. Economy.

A lot of self-sufficient people like myself just aren't spending money these days. I don't play as much as I used to, I try to save more money these days. I'll jump on a good deal, but not without a lot of thinking to go along with it to justify my desire for whatever it is.

I make a lot more than I did 20 years ago, but with the rising costs of basic needs (food, gas, shelter, etc.), I find myself cutting down the "disposable" income margin and applying it to more important things. I don't play as often as I did as a result of this, and I'm quite sure I'm not the only one who's doing this.

Christ - I feel like I've written a book!

[afortuna]

Cheap quality paint - $40
All day air - $5
Field fee - $10

That is $55 to play. I don't shoot cheap quality paint, because I'd like to hit what I aim at. I can also make a case of paint last two days, because I dont' subscribe to "Accuracy by Volume."

Still, $55.00 to play one day is almost the price of admission at Disneyland. It isn't cheap. This doesn't include food, gas, travel time, or equipment cost to play. Paintball is not cheap to play.

[dave p]

and for the record, i dont hate kids. I have 2. one happens to be 13. I spend a lot of time with my kids doing all kinds of stuff, paintball just isnt one of them. skateboarding is something i do do with them, just to put it in perspective.

hell, today i gave a group of 12-13 year olds a ramp i built with my own hands for free, because the skatepark got closed on them. just so they would have something to skate. true story.

i just feel that when the industry started taking direction from kids, it all went downhill. when the industry became an industry, and let money regulate it instead of safety it all went downhill. when guns started looking like basketball sneakers, it went down hill.

[Riddler236]

don't let big business involvement and teenage e-peens ruin it for you.

go back to what was fun for you. play at a local field that reminds you of the things you love about the sport support them and manufacturers that you like. play with people interested in the same thing. there are plenty of us around.

[Ninjeff]

and for the record, i dont hate kids. I have 2. one happens to be 13. I spend a lot of time with my kids doing all kinds of stuff, paintball just isnt one of them. skateboarding is something i do do with them, just to put it in perspective.

hell, today i gave a group of 12-13 year olds a ramp i built with my own hands for free, because the skatepark got closed on them. just so they would have something to skate. true story.

i just feel that when the industry started taking direction from kids, it all went downhill. when the industry became an industry, and let money regulate it instead of safety it all went downhill. when guns started looking like basketball sneakers, it went down hill.


No offense dude, but sounds like "old guy syndrome" to me. Just like how music sucks now and the only good music was the music that was good when i was younger.....and the old people thought THAT music sucked....and so on and so on.

Look, i see plenty of kids falling in love with the game. I see plenty of kids that are well behaved, respectful, and that yearn to play better. I also see the occasional attitude flare-up but its hardly limited to kids.
The tounament scene is dying, not paintball. The tourney scene is suffocating under its own weight. What it needs if one governing body, and one universal format/rulebook/point system.
But paintball, the sport, is doing ok. Check out a scenario game some time. They are way..WAY bigger than when i started in 97. Huge in fact.

And as far as "punk ***" kids who think a gun makes you good, well, its true. But arent MOST teenagers that way with ANYTHING? Fashion, music, sports, cars, everything. Thats part of being a teenager.
Still, if you want to fix the attitude, how about you mentor some kids. Teach them the finer points, teach them how to play the game...how to respect the game. Maybe they dont respect the old-school because all they ever get form us older players in flack about how "they dont have a clue how it used to be" or how"they dont do it right" and nonsense like that. When i was 17 i had a bunch of the older players take me under their wing and teach me those things....i never forgot em, and its what keeps me playing to this day.

[chafnerjr]

I think that this is giving me a good understanding of what's going down. The tourny scene is in trouble... but we've all been watching that for some time now. I'm actually pretty darned glad to know that it's only the pro/am side of things that everyone sees as in trouble. They'll come out of it at some point... or not, but either way paintball is not going to dye. There are just too many of us who love the sport. That's what I was trying to dig out with this post.

About the tourny scene... my brother in law cleared up a lot of thoughts I had on this. There needs to be a place for those that NEED to win. We all talk about those who have a need to win and those who just want to play. Tourny paintball can separate those pretty darned well... then again there are those who just want to be on a team. My brother explained to me one day that he just liked playing on a team now that high school is well behind us. He doesn't play hockey or softball so there are no other team sports he can play. Tourny paintball covers that for him, win or lose... though he prefers to win of course.

Glad to know you're all out there and care about the sport enough to keep these sorts of discussions going.

Hell I post this and get 20 responses and but a posting of my wifes new phoenix pneumag only get's two. heh heh heh.

[Smoothice]

The tourny scene is in trouble... but we've all been watching that for some time now. I'm actually pretty darned glad to know that it's only the pro/am side of things that everyone sees as in trouble.

Its the pro am side that gives this a "sport" feeling. Without it perhaps paintball is just a hobby.

I'm sure o.k with that.



Hell I post this and get 20 responses and but a posting of my wifes new phoenix pneumag only get's two. heh heh heh.

Thats because you haven't posted pictures of the wife yet ;)

[MANN]

why paintball is dying.

the people that play. It is just different "these days". mind you I started playing in ~ 94-95

Miscue hit the nail on the head


Originally Posted by Miscue
I dislike paintball now very much... I'd still play if it were all mech. I only go to AO events now.

IMO... electronics + paintball = complete BS. It creates so many problems, does not make the game better (different maybe), etc.

The bastards on the field got WORSE with electros. Before it was one thing if you were a big jerk and could only pull the trigger at 5bps. Now rat bastards have an electronic device that shoots itself to be a super rat bastard. I am sick as hell of being ridiculously overshot by goddamn 13 year old POS cheating bastards who over-celebrate their wins that were won by cheating big time... thinking to ourselves that we shot that mofo 3 times that's rubbing the win in our faces telling us how much we suck... and if we had a clean game they'd get destroyed.

The incentive to move has been lost... the clean game is dead. Too many dirtbags play this game.

I can't get a clean game. WTF is the purpose of spending so much time, money, and effort on something when the game is played so dirty? Why don't I just buy a case of paint for my opponents, ask to be kicked in the nuts, and go home a "loser"?


I dont think that electric markers are what did it necessarily, but in the hands of someone who does not respect the game it makes it less than enjoyable.

[nevets11_2003]

it is dieing, and the sooner the better.

and there are less guns available than ever, not more. you can get a tippman, dye, smartparts, some K2 wgp crap or some chinese made POS. unless you want to go used.

people have had enough, of the high prices, the high stakes B.S., and the big business side of paintball. as soon as it collapses, we will start seeing:

american pb manufacturers again, who are small, and care.
small fields that are cool to play at
the game will go back to having fun instead of making money, it will be grass roots again, and sustain itself for the sake of playing. not competing. the way it used to be.

guaranteed, as soon as paintball stops becoming profitable, all the conglomerates like K2 will drop it like a hot potatoe.
and maybe smartparts will dissapear as well.

hopefully it will become too expensive for 13 y.o. kids moms to bankroll.
that means:
all the fashion crap will go away
the immaturity will decrease
maybe used gear prices will go back up
it will go back to being an adult game, like it used to be


please, please let it DIE
then all the front runners will go away. GOOD RIDDANCE
Never gonna happen.

[MANN]

maybe used gear prices will go back up

when did they go down. quality gear holds its value. xmags still sell for 1k+. S6s still go for 500+. The only thing that goes down is dye/ego/sp/etc

I just saw a minimag go for 255+ shipping on ebay. Prices are still good for quality markers/gear.

[Ninjeff]

After thinking about it, i realized, paintball pushed so hard to be accepted as a mainstream sport in the late 90s early 00s....everything was geared towards improving its image and showing the world we are a "real sport" and the holy grail was to be on TV. Well, we got that shot a bunch of times, and collectively discovered something we werent ready for:

Paintball sucks on TV.

I love this sport....so much...and i watch it on tv whenever i can, but wi "get it". Watch it with anyone else and they cant tell what the hell is going on....and you cant blame them. Its a hard sport to watch if you dont know whats whats, and especially since you cant really SEE the paint on tv. Once we all (the colelctive "we") realized TV wasnt all it was cracked up to be we kind of floundered.


The scenario scene, however, has been more than pulling its weight as far as keeping the $$$ rolling in. I mean, what was the attendance at D-Day last year? 4,000+ players? 4,000+ !!!!!! I mean sweet lord who would have thought THAT would happen, and happen almost every year? I know in 97 when i started, that was unheard of.
How ironic that the sport made such a hard push for so many years to get away from the "war" mentality of paintball. Tried to push the idea back and out and wear bright colors and have space-guns and play on airball fields...only to come full circle back into it.

Now, i will say that i love the "speedball" side of things. I love it. I like that aspect, but it needs a major over-haul.

[blackdeath]

Cheap quality paint - $40
All day air - $5
Field fee - $10

That is $55 to play. I don't shoot cheap quality paint, because I'd like to hit what I aim at. I can also make a case of paint last two days, because I dont' subscribe to "Accuracy by Volume."

Still, $55.00 to play one day is almost the price of admission at Disneyland. It isn't cheap. This doesn't include food, gas, travel time, or equipment cost to play. Paintball is not cheap to play.


That looks like what my standard weekend used to be right before I quit this last time in 2002. I would buy a case of paint on saturday. and use half case on sat and the other half on sunday. When I started playing in 95 it was a lot more expensive than that. So 60 bux a week end wasnt bad. I Loved the OLD autocockers. Got a 98 model that works great right now. Its not flashy but its got pretty much every nice upgrade except the hinge trigger. And I plan to use it at the local field again. Also got a original automar RT with the inteliframe. Them will be my 2 guns. Ive yet to be given a reason that a new electro whatever is worth it.

But I do remember back around 2000 when all the HIGH ROF guns started coming out. and the stupid little bratts that used them would run lots of people off the field simply because getting shot out once was fine. A three round burst that gets you out is ok. But 20 shots to "make sure" they are out just wasnt fun for the newer players. Heck it was a load of crap for us older players also.

Now a friend of mine is just starting to play. He is scared to play with one family i know simply because they all use angels. Big deal. Its a gun. They can get shot just the same. But in his head since it is an angel it will kick his butt.

IDK. I liked the old days when it was stricktly just friendly games. But like anything It changes. some for the better. some for the worse.

[armyboot]

Screaming, cursing, rampant cheating, lack of respect, etc etc. All these things are so prevalent especially in the tournament scene... Who wants to watch/support that?

Can you imagine if athletes in professional sports acted the same way?

[athomas]

Screaming, cursing, rampant cheating, lack of respect, etc etc. All these things are so prevalent especially in the tournament scene... Who wants to watch/support that?

Can you imagine if athletes in professional sports acted the same way?Umm, they do.




Paintball in our area is bigger than it has ever been. It is cheaper than it has ever been. People have been complaining about the prices and locations and operators since the beginning of time in paintball. If someone closes shop, a new shop opens to replace it. It keeps growing because it is a great sport. I don't think its dying anytime soon.

[Ninjeff]

we hosted a regional NCPA and regional High School 3 man tourney at the same time
this past saturday and didnt have one single attitude problem at all. None.

[armyboot]

Umm, they do.




Paintball in our area is bigger than it has ever been. It is cheaper than it has ever been. People have been complaining about the prices and locations and operators since the beginning of time in paintball. If someone closes shop, a new shop opens to replace it. It keeps growing because it is a great sport. I don't think its dying anytime soon.]

We'll agree to disagree. Cheating is no where near as rampant or obvious in other pro sports. Neither is cursing. How many f bombs do you hear during a basketball game? Not only how many do you hear, but how many do you hear screamed?

How often do you hear players SCREAMING at each other for cheating etc etc. Occasionally. This has become an integral part in the world of competitive paintball IMO.

[chafnerjr]

I think I'm getting a nice clear picture here... I've derived three major points from asking this question:

1) Tourny ball is in major flux... probably won't survive as is, but will change/adapt and whatever, yadda yadda yadda...

2) Recball is FOREVER... whether it be woods, field, scenario or whatever. More players then ever... and prices are lower then ever!

3) Some people will always have problems with some other people and how they play the game. Some get lucky and either don't notice or don't run into the people from one of the first two groups.


Does this sound about right based on what we're seeing here?

[Ninjeff]

I think I'm getting a nice clear picture here... I've derived three major points from asking this question:

1) Tourny ball is in major flux... probably won't survive as is, but will change/adapt and whatever, yadda yadda yadda...

2) Recball is FOREVER... whether it be woods, field, scenario or whatever. More players then ever... and prices are lower then ever!

3) Some people will always have problems with some other people and how they play the game. Some get lucky and either don't notice or don't run into the people from one of the first two groups.


Does this sound about right based on what we're seeing here?


i think thats a pretty decent summation.

[chafnerjr]

Well Chris it seems you have shook things up nice job I hope a lot of people get the message! I have been a player for about 10 years and a ref for over 2 I have seen things come and go from paintball and dealt with boulth good and bad players and I can tell you this from it. Paintball is all about attitude it doesn’t matter if you are young or old the way you play is a reflection of who you are it can bring out the best and worst of you I have seen a lot of horrible little punks in my day but vie also seen the know it all old dude it’s not your age that defines you as a player it’s your attitude. If you want paintball to change then do it instead of yelling at that punk or old dude walk over to them in the dead zone and have a talk with them paintball is only as fun as you want it to be! I’ve watched players at my field go from someone wiping and their teammate ignoring it to that same teammate calling there other player for a wipe. Paintball isn’t controlled by big bisnis or corrupt corporations its fate lies in your hands whither or not the punk kid or old dude wipes is up to you! The paintball we all know and love is still vary much alive but wither it stays that way is up to you. :)

[corwin_160]

Thats my post above my brother was working on my laptop and I did not notice that he wase singnd in just so you all are not confused. :tard:

[stoffa15]

]

We'll agree to disagree. Cheating is no where near as rampant or obvious in other pro sports. Neither is cursing. How many f bombs do you hear during a basketball game? Not only how many do you hear, but how many do you hear screamed?

How often do you hear players SCREAMING at each other for cheating etc etc. Occasionally. This has become an integral part in the world of competitive paintball IMO.

Basketball is probably one of the worst sports you could have paired paintball with.do you realize how much trash talk goes on in all pro sports????Cursing???? What ????The problem is that your looking in from the outside.As for cheating, what do you consider cheating???? poking a player in the stomach as he attemps a jumpshot,pull the shirt while battling for a rebound??If your not caught its not cheating right??? Or my favorite, injecting yourself to make you,faster,stronger and recover from workouts quick.

ALL,ALL pro players "cheat" its part of the game,but I think we're missing the whole point about this thread.Paintball started as a game in which a group of friends went out to have fun.These days paintball is a sport controlled by big business,with their poster boys posing in magazines with hot girls and with all the newest greatest whatucallits.

So what do we do about it???What Mag owners have always done,go play paintball!!!!! I go play paintball every other weekend and give everyone there a history lesson.show everyone out there what this game that we love is about.I already have noticed a rebirth of the cockers and the AUTOMAG wont be far behind.


"Hey, what kind oh gun is that, and whats that on the side of it"?
This is a Marker made buy Airguns Designs,Its an Automag and this is a warpfeed
:tard: "Is it a good gun"?
It has a flux capacitor in it :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :shooting: :shooting: :shooting: :shooting: :shooting:

Come on guys stop complaining and play paintball!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Old School 626]

Here's an angle I've not seen...

What is killing paintball? The fields and refs.

I am a forty something that played his first game in the late 80's and played 4-7 times a month during the 90's. I took a break from 96-ish to 2005 only playing in a few private games. Since returning to the sport in 2005 I have played perhaps 15 days. My disposable income tells me that paintball is not a cost consideration. What DOES influence the number of times I play is really two things:

1) TIME. Paintball is a full day endeavor and that would be OK except for the amount of time spent waiting around for poorly organized fields/refs to get us on a field and the game started. It used to be that you could count on 10 games per day, six before lunch and four after. Several of my recent walk-on outings have resulted in less than 10 games.

2) RESPECT. There is at least one local field that I am not wanting to go back to because during a few of my recent days there I've been yelled at by the refs. Yelled at not for what I did or did not do but yelled at because that was the standard form of communication from them. Why should I drop my entertainment dollars to get yelled at?

I am the consumer, I have a choice. I've played more golf in the last year than I have played paintball in the last three. Maybe paintball could capture more of my entertainment dollars if I got more game time and less down time and the staff made me feel like they where glad that I was there.

Now I am forced with another decision... Should I sell off some markers to buy new irons?

OS

[halB]

dead? dying? let's wait to see what these miraculous tiberius rounds do for the sport.

[M98Punk]

Hmm this is a interesting question.... and I must be getting old because I agree with Army ;) The big problem is: it is not any fun to play at a field anymore. I know that is why I got out the first time....and the second time...and well you get the idea.

Now me and hardR0ck have realized that we have enough gear for a 5v5 game in our parents woods (who still let there kids have a mob of friends over even as we creep up on 30 ). No more having to deal with ego's and other body parts so that we can have decent sized teams.
I cannot say how excited I am to be doing this.... To be able to play the sport I love with people I love....well Like.... OK I tolerate most of them.

But think about it when was the last time that you went to a field (excluding private games) and had a fun time and everyone was decent examples of human beings???

The fields will let any rectum play as long as they have money....in fact the loudmouthed overshooting tween has a special name at most fields a 'REGULAR' these dopes usually get treated like Norm from Cheers...which usually means when they finally run low on funds they get a job at the field...as the rectum REF that yells at paying costumers.

This pushes away the newbies and the fair weather ballers

Could just be me....could just be my area....but it is my $.02

[chafnerjr]

TO: M98Punk... Sounds like your field sucks really bad! Glad to hear that you're starting in some home recball! We're thinking of getting some going ourselves even though we love our field. That's where I started way too many years ago... :rolleyes: ahhh the memories...

P.S. Now that you mentioned that you live with your parents, but have already quit paintball twice is making me feel just a little bit old.

P.P.S You're from Livonia huh... I went to RIT and lived in oh... Genesseo, Henrietta, Victor, Farmington, Charlotte, east Rochester... etc. That was a few years ago... the fields all sucked up there then as well... Have you played at the old Post Office in Rochester?

[armyboot]

.

Basketball is probably one of the worst sports you could have paired paintball with.do you realize how much trash talk goes on in all pro sports????Cursing???? What ????The problem is that your looking in from the outside.As for cheating, what do you consider cheating???? poking a player in the stomach as he attemps a jumpshot,pull the shirt while battling for a rebound??If your not caught its not cheating right??? Or my favorite, injecting yourself to make you,faster,stronger and recover from workouts quick.

Of course there is trash talk in ALL professional sports. The difference is the fact that we, the fans, dont hear it. If I heard all the trash Michael Jordan talked (which he did a lot of) I can guarantee it would have turned me and a lot of fans off. My point is that paintball isn't necessarily a friendly spectator sport, nor does the competitive aspect lend itself to welcoming new players. I remember the first time I played on a sunday at a field with teams... I didn't get shot out right away, but if a ball broke anywhere near me players were screaming at the top of their lungs to check me and that I was cheating etc etc. I was also confronted after the game, and that's happened several times. Who wants to deal with that?

ALL,ALL pro players "cheat" its part of the game,but I think we're missing the whole point about this thread.Paintball started as a game in which a group of friends went out to have fun.These days paintball is a sport controlled by big business,with their poster boys posing in magazines with hot girls and with all the newest greatest whatucallits.

I never said people don't cheat. My point is that it isn't as blatantly obvious.

[tech-chan]

It's not really the cheating. Most feilds I've been to recently have not had that problem.

It's not really the ref's either. I'm good freinds with quite a few and they have thier bad days just like everybody else.

Its the economy and the mindset of people nowadays. I cant afford to play more than twice a month, nor can 90 percent of my buds. And this is not a recent thing, this has been the last 3 years.

I see a lot of lack of respect out there now. Kids think that just because they have a shinier gun than you do, they get to call you out.

However, I have seen the flip side. The guys that come up to you and ask, Can you play on our team? The ones that try to trade food for paint because they don't want to go home to thier life yet. I like those kids.

[M98Punk]

To correct the confusion I live with my wife in Livonia my parents live in Marion and have 50 acres of land..... Yeah I played at the old post office once it was more expensive then a governors callgirl. But yeah at my parents place we have enough woods for recball but we also have a bunch of blue barrels so if I wanted we can have a decent 3v3ish speedball field.... Of course in May we are having a scenario game... I'm so excited and my wife is going to get to play for the first time.... My two real loves finally coming together :clap:

[Smoothice]

I guess I am spoiled. I haven't played a normal walk on game in almost 2 years. Its been nothing but AO private party events or other various private parties.

[stoffa15]

So there are so many different points of view here. I'm pretty sure its safe to say that everyone here isn't a immature piss head, that bashes noobes on the field and tries to take people's heads of with a stream of paint. If you were you probably wouldn't be playing paintball with a "outdated" marker.Paintball isn't the problem!!!!!!!!!!!! The problem is this generation of people.Have you ever looked on youtube or the nation??? Its that 11-17 year old bashing everyone and everything. If its not my gun its crap attitude.If you don't play with a DYE,ANGEL,Etc you shouldn't be playing.I would pwn you... you cant walk a trigger for s#%$.

This is the problem, our youth not paintball itself.I have no kids myself but I have watched my nephew and niece grow up and I must say they don't appreciate a damn thing. Society has changed from being personal to having your kids being baby sat for 8 hours at school and to be occupied for their remainder of time with T.V. and the internet.If I don't dress this way they won't like me,if I don't have the newest sneakers I'm a herb, and If I'm different I'm an outcast.

I remember when I was young, Every weekend I would be outside with the rest of the team playing sports,riding bikes,playing manhunt.When was the last time you saw that on a regular???? Look at America's past time, 48% of major league players are from outside of the country.The youth of America are ZOMBIES!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Guys just stop saying that paintball is dying,The American way of life is dying instead. I started playing paintball when I was 17 years old. I bought A brass eagle Talon with my own money and got pwned by Mag owners that didn't make fun of my plastic gun.Your knowledge of the sport and life is the key.I bought a Mag soon after cause some guy was really nice to me and lent me his Mag when the pump handle broke on the Talon.Stop *****ing about things and Make A difference, or your just part of the problem.



I'm sorry for the rant guys, I just love this sport and I will stop playing it when I have no more air in my lungs and I'll still be shooting my MAG :shooting:

[chafnerjr]

I just love this sport and I will stop playing it when I have no more air in my lungs and I'll still be shooting my MAG :shooting:

Well said! :cheers:

[M98Punk]

I agree.... very well said! Of course when I play next I think I'm going to leave my mag aside for the day let one of the newbies use it while I try my hand at being a pistolista with my USP :shooting:

[corwin_160]

I concur like Mike Phillips from Tech PB said Ill be playing paintball when Im a f#$%ing wheelchair! :shooting:

[M98Punk]

dude give the motor some mad ups and strap a mag on either side (warp fed of course) and you have yourself a lean mean wheelchair ballin' machine!!!!!

[Beemer]

I concur like Mike Phillips from Tech PB said Ill be playing paintball when Im a f#$%ing wheelchair! :shooting:

We have a smilie for that. :cuss:

[skife]

i havn't played in about 2 years.

I havn't played at a field in about 3.


reasons why;

1. Nobody to play with
2. Its expensive
3. The "Fun" factor was lost


Everyone needs the latest and greatest of guns, i have 2 guns.

Both of the designs are around 20 years old
I shoot a classic valved mini mag with intelli or a mixed breed autococker.

[maniacmechanic]

So there are so many different points of view here. I'm pretty sure its safe to say that everyone here isn't a immature piss head, that bashes noobes on the field and tries to take people's heads of with a stream of paint. If you were you probably wouldn't be playing paintball with a "outdated" marker.Paintball isn't the problem!!!!!!!!!!!! The problem is this generation of people.Have you ever looked on youtube or the nation??? Its that 11-17 year old bashing everyone and everything. If its not my gun its crap attitude.If you don't play with a DYE,ANGEL,Etc you shouldn't be playing.I would pwn you... you cant walk a trigger for s#%$.

This is the problem, our youth not paintball itself.I have no kids myself but I have watched my nephew and niece grow up and I must say they don't appreciate a damn thing. Society has changed from being personal to having your kids being baby sat for 8 hours at school and to be occupied for their remainder of time with T.V. and the internet.If I don't dress this way they won't like me,if I don't have the newest sneakers I'm a herb, and If I'm different I'm an outcast.

I remember when I was young, Every weekend I would be outside with the rest of the team playing sports,riding bikes,playing manhunt.When was the last time you saw that on a regular???? Look at America's past time, 48% of major league players are from outside of the country.The youth of America are ZOMBIES!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Guys just stop saying that paintball is dying,The American way of life is dying instead. I started playing paintball when I was 17 years old. I bought A brass eagle Talon with my own money and got pwned by Mag owners that didn't make fun of my plastic gun.Your knowledge of the sport and life is the key.I bought a Mag soon after cause some guy was really nice to me and lent me his Mag when the pump handle broke on the Talon.Stop *****ing about things and Make A difference, or your just part of the problem.



I'm sorry for the rant guys, I just love this sport and I will stop playing it when I have no more air in my lungs and I'll still be shooting my MAG :shooting:


somebody finnaly wrote down what I been thinking :hail:

[Konigballer]

Seems like there is very little sense of 'ownership' with the younger crop of players today, either with the sport of paintball itself or their own equipment. Some, not all, of these younger players seem to show little respect for either.

Paintball is just something they get into for a few years an trash, until they find something they like better. Same with their gear, alot didn't actually buy their own gear, their parents gave it to them. Therfore they feel no sense of ownership over it. No pride for what their using and how they use it on the field, no matter how humble their marker may be. They never had to work to attain it in the first place, so they only enjoy it untill they see someone with something 'better' than them. To be fair, many of this younger generation's parents are not much better. They live beyond their means on credit, always trying to attain the life of the rich people, and celebrities, they constatnly watch on TV. Makes for poor role-models..

I had to WORK for my first gun in highschool, a Prolite. Then I had to work to get good with it so I wouldn't be slaughtered by mag and cocker guys. It made me appreciate both my gun, and paintball.

[M98Punk]

I completely agree! I remember skimping and saving for my first tippmann and how I lovingly saved and skimped for every upgrade.....and then later when I got my micro I spent a good year getting everything that I want for it....even if I haven't instaled the pnue for it yet.

They aren't quite family but they are definatly like pets to me, :cheers:

[corwin_160]

I had to WORK for my first gun in highschool, a Prolite. Then I had to work to get good with it so I wouldn't be slaughtered by mag and cocker guys. It made me appreciate both my gun, and paintball.

The prolite was my first marker too I love that thing still have it too. I don't use it as much as the E Mag though. Still ill never get rid of it ill have to pull it out this sumer and show these kid's that it is the player. :shooting:

[Don Carnage]

Paintball is going through it's rough time for a ton of reasons, but my personal opinion as far as a big one is that we're not getting enough new blood.

Cheap fast guns did a lot of it. Kids that show up to play on their first day who are carying their field rental Tippmanns and get lit up by the players sporting the latest super-gun are not going to have fun and are not too likely to come back

My first game I ever played was horrible by most accounts. Gun didn't work, crappy rental mask fogged to the point I couldnt see anything, etc... but I never got lit up. Had that first game included some guy nailing me 15+ times in a second, I might never have come back and now a days, new players are getting 'pwned' by morons sporting stupid-fast guns at a walk-on games every single weekend. The end result is that we're not getting new blood.

Think about how much money comes from new blood. I have all my gear, what little gear I buy is hardly enough to help the community. New players who need a mask, gun, tank, gearbag, harness, clothes, hopper, barrel, etc... those are the ones keeping to shops and manufacturers alive. And we've done our best and chasing off the 'noobs' by blasting them with our super ramped-up guns at 20bps.

Why do you think the surviving leauge has dropped their bps to 12? It's not because they are stupid jerks that want to ruin your day, but because they're wrangling in the biggest detrement to paintball. If the leauges are not shooting faster than 12 bps, then many new guns won't need to shoot much faster. Players won't need to get paintball hoses and now this opens the door for those seeds of new players to take root, grow, and continue the survival of our game.

Here's a question for you old players. Is playing now any less fun than it was back in the day when you went out and played with VM68's and Tippmann Prolites, laughed and shot your friends, and then all went out together, shared war stories and compared bruises? If it isn't as fun now as it was then, then lets turn down the ROF's and see if we can get that back.

[chafnerjr]

Why do you think the surviving leauge has dropped their bps to 12? It's not because they are stupid jerks that want to ruin your day, but because they're wrangling in the biggest detrement to paintball. If the leauges are not shooting faster than 12 bps, then many new guns won't need to shoot much faster. Players won't need to get paintball hoses and now this opens the door for those seeds of new players to take root, grow, and continue the survival of our game.
I like it!



Here's a question for you old players. Is playing now any less fun than it was back in the day when you went out and played with VM68's and Tippmann Prolites, laughed and shot your friends, and then all went out together, shared war stories and compared bruises? If it isn't as fun now as it was then, then lets turn down the ROF's and see if we can get that back.
For me, playing now is just different. Like everyone else my I saved to buy my first marker. It was $350 for a Tippmann 68 Carbine which I still have (sans velocity screw). However, my stepfather started a "private field" (with rentals) for friends and family once my brother and I got interested in paintball. Every damned Sunday in the summer we'd play from 11am until we couldn't see a damn thing anymore. Hell Corwin_160 was there! I'm not sure that I can compare that to anything as it was a major part of my youth.

It's just much different now without our own field. My local field is great, their refs are great, and the people are pretty good. It's not the same but it's still a great time. It just seems to be a mixed bag for people.

[halB]

When are these tiberius rounds coming out? Don't you people understand? Paintball is a phoenix, and it will rise from the ashes. The guns you own now will be worthless. We will probably re-do the whole evolution, just in fast forward.

New pumps
New Semis
New electros.

My god! I cannot wait for the most expensive thing there is in a day of paintball to be the food!

These will save paintball.

//how can I get my hands on these?

[chafnerjr]

My god! I cannot wait for the most expensive thing there is in a day of paintball to be the food!


I would love that to be the case... with that said I must have missing something. When those tiberius rounds come out they will be likel ~32 to 33 times as expensive as the current rounds... unless thats what you meant and were just making a joke. They are marketing the new tierius rounds as being just under $1/ "slug"?!?!? or has that changed?

It will make me want to buy a pistol that can fire them though. :cheers:

[Engus]

your right chafnerjr, I think the planned price is like $6 for 8 FS rounds. And honestly I dont really like the style of play they promote. Its frustrating and boring when everyone is sitting around the field just waiting for someone to come into their line of sight.


My local field has players with the newest ego's and tippmanns and phantoms. But theres a much better attitide, and its enforced by the owner. heres a few of the rules (which everyone hears at the beginning of every day of play):

-Exercise muzzle discipline. Keep your safety on and your finger off the trigger.
-Your gun must be set under 300 FPS. Anyone intentionally playing with a 'hot'
gun is subject to firing squad and ejection from the field.
-Do not wipe or play on. Anyone caught wiping or playing on is subject to
firing squad.
-No ramping. Anyone caught ramping is subject to firing squad.
-No blind-firing. Blind firing results in ejection from the game.
-Do not overshoot or bonus-ball. Learn trigger control.
-The dead do not speak to the living: dead men tell no tales. Imparting
supernatural knowledge is grounds for firing squad.
-Do not shoot the referee.
-Do not argue with the referee.
-No fighting. Fighting results in ejection from the field.
-Keep in mind that there may be children present. Act accordingly.

[Beemer]

your right chafnerjr, I think the planned price is like $6 for 8 FS rounds. And honestly I dont really like the style of play they promote. Its frustrating and boring when everyone is sitting around the field just waiting for someone to come into their line of sight.


My local field has players with the newest ego's and tippmanns and phantoms. But theres a much better attitide, and its enforced by the owner. heres a few of the rules (which everyone hears at the beginning of every day of play):

-Exercise muzzle discipline. Keep your safety on and your finger off the trigger.
-Your gun must be set under 300 FPS. Anyone intentionally playing with a 'hot'
gun is subject to firing squad and ejection from the field.
-Do not wipe or play on. Anyone caught wiping or playing on is subject to
firing squad.
-No ramping. Anyone caught ramping is subject to firing squad.
-No blind-firing. Blind firing results in ejection from the game.
-Do not overshoot or bonus-ball. Learn trigger control.
-The dead do not speak to the living: dead men tell no tales. Imparting
supernatural knowledge is grounds for firing squad.
-Do not shoot the referee.
-Do not argue with the referee.
-No fighting. Fighting results in ejection from the field.
-Keep in mind that there may be children present. Act accordingly.


Sounds good so far and MY S.O.P. This attitude is what should be Nation wide and enforced at all fields
Please do post up the rest of them and where this field is. :headbang:

Thing is they post up the rules but how many Fields enforce them??

[Engus]

Sounds good so far and MY S.O.P. This attitude is what should be Nation wide and enforced at all fields
Please do post up the rest of them and where this field is. :headbang:

Thing is they post up the rules but how many Fields enforce them??

heres the full rules list for Valley Paintball (http://valleypaintball.com/) in Sabin, MN. between the refs, and the group of good guys on the feild (local teams/regulars/staff/myself) they get enforced pretty well.



VALLEY PAINTBALL RULES
-Goggles must be worn at all times when on the playing field.
-DO NOT REMOVE YOUR GOGGS ON THE PLAYING FIELD.
-Barrel blocking devices must be used at all times in the staging area.
-No firing or dry firing in the staging area.
-Exercise muzzle discipline. Keep your safety on and your finger off the trigger.
-Your gun must be set under 300 FPS. Anyone intentionally playing with a 'hot'
gun is subject to firing squad and ejection from the field.
-Do not wipe or play on. Anyone caught wiping or playing on is subject to
firing squad.
-No ramping. Anyone caught ramping is subject to firing squad.
-No blind-firing. Blind firing results in ejection from the game.
-Do not overshoot or bonus-ball. Learn trigger control.
-The dead do not speak to the living: dead men tell no tales. Imparting
supernatural knowledge is grounds for firing squad.
-Do not shoot the referee.
-Do not argue with the referee.
-No fighting. Fighting results in ejection from the field.
-Keep in mind that there may be children present. Act accordingly.
-Please keep your mess orderly. Box/Bag your trash. I'm happy to dispose of
your trash, not to pick it up off the ground.
-No littering on the playing field.
-STAY OUT OF THE STAGING TRAILER

You must sign a waiver to remain on the premises

[VFX_Fenix]

In this area - Paintball is "dead".

There isn't a field within reasonable driving distance. The local stores carry paintball gear as a vestige though people around here still buy paint locally though just to play outlaw games on BLM land. Renegade/Outlaw ball is prevalent, however rules and safety suffer horrendously. Finding a Chrono is nearly impossible, goggle safety is often overlooked, some people play like they did in the semi good-old-days and just run around with approved goggles, no mask, no ears, just gogs. Play is agressive and the groups like to play "John Wayne" rules (wounding shots/area specific damage) so you need to put a lot of paint on a player to "put 'em down". Which leads to bickering because of overshooting, blah blah blah blah blah.

The last time I played with those guys I witnessed a fist fight break out and promptly gathered my gear and went home in the midst of the game. I had just finished changing into my street cloths and was driving away when a black and white came screaming down the street I was about to turn onto and zoomed towards the field I'd just left. Needless to say, that was enough for me and I never went back.

I talk to the owners of the local shops that carry gear above and beyond the "Brass Eagle/JT" franchise and they still get people coming in to buy stuff. So I guess those renegade groups are still kicking around.

So Organized paintball is dead - renegade is alive, but I wouldn't play with those guys if I were being paid.

EDIT - Airsoft on the other hand seems to be doing okay. There's a local governing body which is associated with an Airsoft league which has its own rules. However I will say that Airsoft is much easier to self regulate, safety wise, since the guns used in airsoft are inherently limited to how fast they can shoot and they can't be adjusted to shoot faster on the fly (requires upgrades to barrels and springs specifically). This is different than Paintball where the guns do have a maximum velocity they can achieve, but that velocity is higher than what is accepted to be "legal and safe" in just about every instance. Also the groups under this governing body only play on fields with the land owners' permission, unlike the renegade paintballers.

Overall - Higher level of professionalism and responsibility in the Airsoft crowd. Much like the days when I first started playing paintball.

[Reiner]

Paintbal is not dead and paintball will not die. Paintball has however become less popular in the past few years. There was a 19% decline of products sold ($ value at the wholesale level) in 2007 and a 20% decline in 2008 for instance. You might notice theat the 19% decline in 2007 took place before the current economic collapse, as a matter of fact, it was during a very strong US economy. There was work for anyone that wanted work.

Also during this time, paintball products and paintballs were cheaper than any other time during othe sports history. So we had people with lots of money and cheap paintball, yet the sport was getting less popular. Anyone that thinks popularity of the sport has decreased due to prices being too high, should give their heads a shake.

I'm not saying paintball is not an expensive sport. It is, but it always has been. It's gotten cheaper though, especially the paintballs needed to play the game. And therein lies the problem. The inexpensive paintballs, found at most North American fields, has led to a style of paintball that many do not enjoy, especially new players. As the established players that tolerate the current high paintball usage style of play leave the game (everyone leaves eventually) and there are less new players to replace them, we end up with a negative growth rate. Therefore I conclude, it is not the high cost of playing paintball that is creating a decline in numbers, but on the contrary, the low cost of paintalls are not only contributing to the decline, but are the main reason for it.

[hulk]

yah but you can find it simmiler to going skiing for the day


Cheap quality paint - $40
All day air - $5
Field fee - $10

That is $55 to play. I don't shoot cheap quality paint, because I'd like to hit what I aim at. I can also make a case of paint last two days, because I dont' subscribe to "Accuracy by Volume."

Still, $55.00 to play one day is almost the price of admission at Disneyland. It isn't cheap. This doesn't include food, gas, travel time, or equipment cost to play. Paintball is not cheap to play.

[chafnerjr]

Ain't that the truth! :cool:

[dreadpirate]

I've never seen any of these threads you mention. Nor have I noticed much drop in interest, though I myself never seem to make it out to play these days. If I had to come up with my own thoughts as to why paintball may be decreasing in popularity:

1) The whole world is in a giant recession, and paintball just is not a necessity, especially for those who might otherwise become new players. Those with jobs are working longer hours to keep those jobs, and don't have Saturdays off anymore.

2) Paintball technology is at, or near it's peak. In the 90s and early 00s, there was a new, game-changing gun design out for every manufacturer almost every year, so they got sales from both experienced players keeping up with the trends, and new players. Now, most new guns are just tweaks on previous designs, not leaving much incentive for experienced players to replace their familiar marker with something new. Thus, demand for new markers has dropped, and the demand that exists is from the new crowd (middle aged players looking for cheap, tough guns like the Tippmann 98, so they can go play with their kids, and very young players looking for flashy electros), which has little concept of what makes a good or bad paint marker. I personally blame this factor for the automag's drop in popularity. Everyone who knows it's the best design out there already has one. Pretty soon, the manufacturers are going start following a rule out of the automakers' book: planned obsolesence. The electronic guns will drop from level II or III electronics standards, to level I, and then they'll be breaking every two or three years, requiring a complete board replacement, which will be discontinued, forcing the owner to buy a brand new gun.

3) Paintball does not cater to the lazy. Why drag yourself out of bed at 5am on a weekend to get dressed, drive an hour and a couple gallons of gas, to the field, pay $60 to have a blast, then drive back, when a pickup game of street hockey with the kids down the block, or a few games of COD4 on the PC are so much cheaper and easier? The base I go to drill at has arrived at the right answer here: the base paintball field is open from noon until sunset. The players can actually stay up late Friday, sleep in Saturday, and still make it to a game with their friends.

4) Paintball is seen as a kid's game. Just last month I mentioned to one of my bosses that I was heading out to play paintball that weekend, and his response was, "Aren't you a bit old for that stuff?" I'm only 28! My dad still plays, even after a fractured pelvis during a bicycle race, and he's 58!

I started playing in 96/97, and I recall back then, paintball was somewhat of a fringe sport, but gaining popularity. The economy was booming, and at 16, I had my own minimum wage typesetter job to pay for my spyder basic, a mask, tank, and the paint I shot with it.

Now, with jobs being lost all over, I see more and more of those minimum wage jobs being held by adults, meaning the only teens on the field are the very lucky few who manage to get a job, or those who's parents are well off enough to pay for them.

But, honestly, I haven't personally seen a drop in numbers at most fields I play at, with the exception of last year's Global Conquest, which was more due to everyone moving out of Michigan than anything else. Michigan has lost around 15% of it's population since the economy turned south. (Thanks alot, Gov. Granholm)

[MKing]

I played two weeks ago at a brand new field that opened this spring.
There was one group of 15 people who were all first time players. We all had to try help them get their brand new tippmanns to shoot less than 300 fps (why do tippmanns shoot 350 out of the box?).
The thing about this group of new players that suprised me was that they were all Hispanic. When I saw them it obviously exposed a little racial stereotype that I didn't even realize that I had. Even though I live in Chicago, I am used to seeing 90% white people on the paintball field.
I have no info other than my own experience but it seems like paintball plays to the Caucasian crowd pretty heavily. However, the population make up is changing. For the game to be successful maybe companies and fields should start catering to the Hispanic population more.
Just a thought.

[dreadpirate]

I played two weeks ago at a brand new field that opened this spring.
There was one group of 15 people who were all first time players. We all had to try help them get their brand new tippmanns to shoot less than 300 fps (why do tippmanns shoot 350 out of the box?).
The thing about this group of new players that suprised me was that they were all Hispanic. When I saw them it obviously exposed a little racial stereotype that I didn't even realize that I had. Even though I live in Chicago, I am used to seeing 90% white people on the paintball field.
I have no info other than my own experience but it seems like paintball plays to the Caucasian crowd pretty heavily. However, the population make up is changing. For the game to be successful maybe companies and fields should start catering to the Hispanic population more.
Just a thought.

As an aside, I suspect the high velocity tippmanns has something to do with the fact that I've seen police using apparently unmodified tippmann 98s for crowd control situations. Police paint guns for crowd control are usually shooting at 350+ fps. Perhaps tippmann is using the same spring to keep from having to charge a premium for a 'special police' package.