ULT kit in old style valve help

[Flatliner333]

I have read that the ULE trigger kit will fit in the original style A.I.R. Valves without modification to the valve..is this true? I also read it is not recomended as the recharge rate is not fast enough with this valve and you will short stroke.
I am on a tight budget and have decided to try a spydermag mod to get me where I want to be. I have ordered a rocking trigger frame.I read the noid isnt strong enough to work without the ULT on/off in the valve. Can I do anything to my valve to make it recharge faster without having to trade in my firstborn for an X Valve?
What about the ANS Phase 2 mini regulator or the Mini XFV flow valve with the ULT on/off. I do have the 8 hole mod that we did ourselves back in the day but I dont know that it helped that much.
Thanks for your help
If anyone is interested I have a couple of cool old school paintball videos from 1992 on the "Tube" user name : RIP0333

[Dend78]

your probably not going to see the speed you are looking for out of a classic vavle, you can always get a used RT or emag valve and put a ULT in it.

[MANN]

yes a ult will work in an automag valve (it requires patience and skill to tune it)

the recharge rate is 13-16bps iirc. that is fast enough for most applications

a classic valve recharge rate will be fast enough. If you can afford shooting 20-30 bps you can afford an xvalve.

you dont need any fancy (worhtless) regs. the stock one is fine.

post a link I am too lazy to search.
:cheers:

[secretweaponevan]

No aftermarket products will help a classic valve to recharge faster.

You could always try an RT on/off in a classic valve for your spydermag. It will reduce the force needed to pull the trigger and make it easier for the solenoid.

Don't forget that an RT pro/Emag valve is the same (just a tiny bit heavier) than an X-valve and they can usually be found much cheaper on ebay than X-valves.

[flyingpootang]

Just beaware that most emag an rt valves you have to mill out the step, so the ULT will fit in. I saw a post where Tunaman was doing it. If you bought a RT/Emag valve for 90-100, with a L10 bolt for 110-120, send the vale to have it milled maybe 20-30 (i'm guessing) + shipping. You can add 25-50 to get a X-valve instead....

[Flatliner333]

Would an RT Valve with a Level 10 bolt work for my spyderMAG without having the ULT ? :headbang:

[Coralis]

probably not , but if you have one laying around to try go for it. as far as the ult in the classic valve i have a hyperframe with a classic valve and ult it was pretty plug and play, though im told i was lucky.

[flyingpootang]

Would an RT Valve with a Level 10 bolt work for my spyderMAG without having the ULT ? :headbang:

It will if you turn up the dwell, but it'll go through batteries rather quickly. A ULT is your best bet. I have a ULT in my classic valve with no problems...

[Flatliner333]

Ok I have decided to sell one of my guitars to get the money for an X Valve with the lvl 10 bolt For my spyderMag. As far as the solinoid is concerned does the X Valve also need to have the ult or will it be ok with the on/off it comes with. Also I know I will have to modify the sear but is there a sear that is specific to this valve? I have noticed an extra "nub" on pictures of sears that come with the X Valve I guess thats for the new bolt?

[flyingpootang]

A ULT is the best option for your SpyderMag. A RT on/off may or may not work reliably. Sears are only specific to the rail your using. An Xvalve will work with an RT, Emag, or AM/MM type rails.

[Flatliner333]

I want to thank all of you for your help with this project and I figured I would let you know how it went. I first bought a Spyder Rocking Trigger and decided to try the flip the noid modification.The tools I used were a drill and a dremil.Once I had gutted the frame and was pass the point of saving the Spyder sear I flipped the solinoid around and realized there was not as much room as I thought there was going to be.I decided to fabricate a new AGD style sear and move the rod arm further back so it would'nt crowd the solinoid.
I then started looking for an X Valve.I found a killer deal on a complete gun with the X Valve / ULT / lvl X / Ule center feed body / and Intelliframe for $250.00.
I have made two sears in an attempt to get the set up just right.I have yet to get the gun to work right with the X Valve but here is where it gets tricky. I decided to stick my stock valve assembly with stock on/off and lvl 7 bolt in to see what would happen and the S.O.B. worked.This gun screams compared to the way it shot before. I was sure it was going to take an X Valve with the ULT to make this mod work.
Here is my question: If the solinoid was not strong enough to work with the stock valve would it not shoot at all? If it is working now can I expect it to wear out the solinoid after prolonged use.I am going to try and make a video of it shooting in the morning and I will post a link to the " Post your videos here" thread on this forum. If you get a chance check it out and let me know if you think this modification was a success.
Also we did a hardness test on the stock AGD sear and that son of a gun is extremely hard.If anyone else decides to fab their own sear like I did you will need to Case harden it if you expect it to last.....Thanks again for all your help :headbang:

[flyingpootang]

You should do the sear tripper mod. It requires you to flip your noid, use the stock Spyder sear flipped and to trim off the sear leg of the stock AGD sear. That way you don't have to worry if your sear is hardened. AGD sear are also nitraded if I'm not mistaken...

[Flatliner333]

Here is a video of my spyderMag.Let me know what you think.Do you think the solinoid will hold up?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLXkyW3UC0o

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84VJTrtYAiY

[Spider-TW]

That looks good!

About the only thing you can do to a solenoid is short out the windings. You might bump around the spyder forums and see what kind of failures they get. I would expect board problems first on a stressed system, but if it is electrically a stock frame you should get normal reliability out of it.

I would keep checking on your sear and bolt lip condition. That's a critical interface when you start working it for tens of thousands of cycles. Your custom sear has a lot to do with making everything work together.

Which on/off did you end up with in that classic valve?

[Flatliner333]

The stock on/off that it came with 12 years ago.As far as the sear it is already showing signs of abuse on the front lip where it catches the bolt. I work in weld testing facility with a machine shop.If I can find the powder I am going to try and Case harden the sear.I am wondering if there is better leverage do to the orientation of actuater arm placement on the home made sear and that is why it is working with out the ULT kit.
I am going to continue to trying to get it to work with the X Valve, but I bought it used with the lvl X bolt and ULT and have no extra shims or carriers for adjusting it.The gun appears to have came with a stock rail and a RT Pro sear.The sear has the litle nub behind the bolt lip and I am having to push the bolt back to reset the valve halfway through a game. :headbang:

[Spider-TW]

If it's working with the straight pin classic on/off, that's pretty strong. The RT on/off (not ULT) will cut the force needed by the solenoid in half, compared to the classic on/off.

I don't think any on/off will help with the wear on the sear. I noticed on an old used sear that once it started wearing it went fast and got to where it couldn't catch the bolt every time.

Make sure you have a little space between your sear and the solenoid so that you can be sure that it can get a full lock-up. It's the same problem as trigger rods or pneu-mag actuators. If it's too tight, the sear only catches on the very tip and your on/off doesn't open as far as possible.

[dave p]

Ok I have decided to sell one of my guitars to get the money for an X Valve with the lvl 10 bolt For my spyderMag. As far as the solinoid is concerned does the X Valve also need to have the ult or will it be ok with the on/off it comes with. Also I know I will have to modify the sear but is there a sear that is specific to this valve? I have noticed an extra "nub" on pictures of sears that come with the X Valve I guess thats for the new bolt?

dont ever ever ever ever sell a musical instrument for paintball gear

been there, done that, its stupid

that is all

[Flatliner333]

:headbang:
dont ever ever ever ever sell a musical instrument for paintball gear

been there, done that, its stupid

that is all


I still have 11 guitars I wont miss that one to much :headbang:

[fishmishin]

I installed a ULT in my classic valve tonight after reading this. I hadn't thought about trying it before because AGD's website said the ULT wasn't for the classic valve. UUMMMMM, WOW !! Now keep in mind I just came back to playing after an extended break, and I just received my ULT this week, so I am a good deal behind the learning curve. That was the first time I have had a chance to mess with the ULT, and I think I want another one. I was just telling my wife earlier today I would love to be able to walk the trigger on my mag, well now it's pretty easy. Really wish I would have tried it sooner. :dance: :dance: :dance: :dance:

[Flatliner333]

I am glad this thread helped you in some way.I have been playing since 1988 and have had the same Mag for over 12 years.I have been out of it for about 8 years and I never new these guns had so much untapped potential. Thank God for this websight and all of the loyal Mag owners who are so willing to share their wealth of knowledge.
I played a couple of weeks ago for the first time in over 8 years and even some of the guys my age (39) were saying how old school my gun was. I had the only Automag there and some of the younger guys ( using Ions and Egos) were saying how they had heard how reliable the Mag was but had never seen one. Now that my gun is supercharged via the spyderMag mod, I cant wait to get back to the field and show them what this gun is really capable of.

[fishmishin]

Well my friend welcome back to the game, and welcome to AO, the best dang forum on the net. The people here rock. They are always willing to lend a helping hand in anyway they can, from info to parts. If it's for an Automag then it's here. I came back to playing in December, and I couldn't even begin to tell you how much i have learned from this site, and how glad I was to see the Automag still kicking, and badder than ever. I just knew the first time I went out to play my mag was going to be the only one out there. Now mind you there was 185 people playing in 9 degree weather, there were several mags there. I was so glad to see my favorite gun of the yester years still kickin butt. Oh and if any of you guys out there were there in January, at Splat Brothers in Hopewell, VA I would like to say thank you !! For those were the guys that pointed me to AO !!