I really need help with my classic!!!

[chefomar]

So, here's the setup. I have a classic mag with a rt on/off, all of the o rings are new, it has a 8 hole mod that doesn't look to clean, apparently it was made by the previous owner at his home, the frame is a double trigger benchmark, it has a bike grip, and the lines are macrolines or microlines (I dont know if there is a difference, but i've seen similar lines been refered to with both names) and I'm using a 20 oz. Co2 tank (I'm from Puerto Rico and the temperature here is about 90 degrees F).

Here's the problem. Today I was playing at a field that's a combination of structures with jungle, and almost everytime that i got in a shooting with someone I couldn't advance my position. Whenever I tried to shoot a fast stroke the shots would start to fall almost in front of me (you don't have to be a genius to know what happened to me). The tank had enough gas, I even tried with other tanks some friends gave me and it still happened. If the shots were fired at a slow rate, she did fired fine, that was the only thing i could do, I stayed apart from the action and basically was playing a sniper position, but that sucks for me, I like being in the middle of the field. I'm kind of frustrated, :confused: what do you suggest, should I call it quits with my mag or is there something I can do? I really love Mags, I also had one back in the 90's and she was flawless but I haven't been able to get that performance from this one :shooting: . Any advice would be greatly appreciated!!! Today I was outplayed by guys with Spyders and brass Eagles and I know that the gun doesn't make the player buth with my mag working correctly I know that today stories would've been different. :cheers:

[xero28]

Mags are notorious CO2 haters, even if you don't have an RT. It may be that the o-rings are freezing up on you when you start to string shots together? Maybe not. If you're going to continue on CO2, make sure you have an anti-siphon tank and a good expansion chamber so you don't get liquid CO2 in the gun that can cause some o-ring problems. Otherwise, you could pick up a cheap high pressure tank for just a few bucks more than a 20 oz CO2. Other than that, I'm not sure. Good luck.

[Riddler236]

it could certainly be the CO2 use, but in 90°F, it could also be a dirty/slow reg.

I'd honestly suggest tearing down the reg and cleaning/relubing. A bit of grime would impact your recharge rate and ability to shoot quickly.

But yes, do recall that CO2 is stored as a liquid and if you outshoot the recharge rate of your CO2 bottle (not hard to do with a mag), you're feeding the gun pure liquid.

[chefomar]

it could certainly be the CO2 use, but in 90°F, it could also be a dirty/slow reg.

I'd honestly suggest tearing down the reg and cleaning/relubing. A bit of grime would impact your recharge rate and ability to shoot quickly.

But yes, do recall that CO2 is stored as a liquid and if you outshoot the recharge rate of your CO2 bottle (not hard to do with a mag), you're feeding the gun pure liquid.

I don't know if freezing is causing the problem, today there were other people playing with co2 and didn't have problems(remember we are playing in the tropic at 90 degrees F approximately). I will clean it and see what happens and let you know. I really dont know if i'm getting liquid Co2 to the valve. The Co2 path goes first trough the asa, up by the bike grip and then to the valve. Does anyone know if the bike grip would act as an expansion chamber?

[Beemer]

How fast can you shoot?? Want to shoot?? BPS....


I also had one back in the 90's and she was flawless but I haven't been able to get that performance from this one

What gun was this? Were you using CO2 or HPA??

Sounds like a liquid or freeze up issue to me. Was the valve getting frosty on rapid fire.

[chefomar]

How fast can you shoot?? Want to shoot?? BPS....



What gun was this? Were you using CO2 or HPA??

Sounds like a liquid or freeze up issue to me. Was the valve getting frosty on rapid fire.
The one I had back in the 90's was also a classic valve mag and i also used Co2. The only difference was the air system setup. In the first one it had a steel hose that came directly from the asa to the valve. It was the classic model with power feed and the crown point barrel. In the one I have now it goes from the asa, to the bike grip and then to the valve. About the valve getting frosty, I don't know, it just condensed water around it, but that is something that back in the days happened and still she would fire.

[chefomar]

it could certainly be the CO2 use, but in 90°F, it could also be a dirty/slow reg.

I'd honestly suggest tearing down the reg and cleaning/relubing. A bit of grime would impact your recharge rate and ability to shoot quickly.

But yes, do recall that CO2 is stored as a liquid and if you outshoot the recharge rate of your CO2 bottle (not hard to do with a mag), you're feeding the gun pure liquid.
Cleaned everything last night, and seems to work fine. Although I just tested with gas. Once I use it with paint I'll let you know. Anyway thanks for the help. :cheers:

[Spider-TW]

Micro lines would not be good for rof. The outside diameter should be right around 1/4" for macro line.

Take note of how many and how much time goes by between shots. Expectations of your mag can change over the years. :)

I fed a partial 20 oz vert bottle directly into my minimag over 10 minutes. I averaged less than 1 bps and at the end the bottle was iced (75F weather) and velocity was just enough to get across the little hyperball field, with out enough force to break. No ice on the reg though. :clap:

How is your tank mounted?

The bike grip has some volume to it, but it is insulated and doesn't have much contact surface inside or out. It will keep condensed liquid out, but not a feed from a horizontal 20 oz.

[chefomar]

Micro lines would not be good for rof. The outside diameter should be right around 1/4" for macro line.

Take note of how many and how much time goes by between shots. Expectations of your mag can change over the years. :)

I fed a partial 20 oz vert bottle directly into my minimag over 10 minutes. I averaged less than 1 bps and at the end the bottle was iced (75F weather) and velocity was just enough to get across the little hyperball field, with out enough force to break. No ice on the reg though. :clap:

How is your tank mounted?

The bike grip has some volume to it, but it is insulated and doesn't have much contact surface inside or out. It will keep condensed liquid out, but not a feed from a horizontal 20 oz.
The tank is mounted horizontally in to the asa. Last night I took the valve completely apart and put everything inside a bowl with water and some dish soap and cleaned everything with a small tooth brush. When disasembling I noticed some dirt and some debris inside the regulator and on the regulator spring. Then I rinsed everything with plenty of fresh water and dried it all. When mounting it back i got to put some paintball oil in every o ring and some grease on the regulator. This morning I tested it but just with air and it seemed to shot just fine, I put my hand in front of the bolt and the pressure felt constant. I kept shooting for like five minutes at a rate like if I was in a battle with someone and she kept constant. The bottle got some frost on the outside and the temperature this morning was around 75F , so I'll have to wait till I play again and see. If the problem persist, well I asume It's the Co2 because everything is now very clean. My concern now is that I only played three times since I installed all of the orings and where did all that dirt came from? Last night I watched all of the Tom Kaye videos in you tube and i did all of the troubleshoot steps to find out if something was wrong and everything seems to be just fine :headbang: . Maybe It also could be that when i mounted the new o rings I didn't clean the mech parts very well and that the oil i used wasn't a paintball gun oil, what i used was a regular oil for household use called 3 in 1, maybe that caused the problem also :tard: . But once I use it in a game I'll let you know. :cheers:

[Spider-TW]

3in1 will harden the urethane orings after a while. It shouldn't be the problem at the moment.

Dirty CO2 is unfortunately common. It depends on where the field gets it and how they dispense it.

The horizontal 20 oz is your big problem for feeding liquid. After you shoot a while, the whole system gets cold enough that it can't vaporize the liquid coming out of the tank. If you keep that arrangement, you really need an anti-siphon tube in there. There's no regulator or expansion tank that can keep 20 oz of liquid CO2 out of a marker.

You see some tippmanns like this sometimes (without siphon tubes), but you also find holes through pods and hoppers too. :wow:

[stoffa15]

I would look no further then your reg. I had this same problem using N2 in both my classic valve and in my X. when every time I would clean and lube my marker I would neglect to take apart my reg and clean the springs. you'd v be surprized how much gunk builds up back there.
remember to grease it up pretty good after you clean it. :cheers:

[chefomar]

3in1 will harden the urethane orings after a while. It shouldn't be the problem at the moment.

Dirty CO2 is unfortunately common. It depends on where the field gets it and how they dispense it.

The horizontal 20 oz is your big problem for feeding liquid. After you shoot a while, the whole system gets cold enough that it can't vaporize the liquid coming out of the tank. If you keep that arrangement, you really need an anti-siphon tube in there. There's no regulator or expansion tank that can keep 20 oz of liquid CO2 out of a marker.

You see some tippmanns like this sometimes (without siphon tubes), but you also find holes through pods and hoppers too. :wow:
Do you think that if I get a asa that has some angle that would help? I have in my bag the stock one that has a small angle so that the bottle doesn't sit completely horizontal. The one I have in the gun is a bechmark with on off that sit completrly horizontal, parallel to the bottom part of the grip frame.

[chefomar]

I would look no further then your reg. I had this same problem using N2 in both my classic valve and in my X. when every time I would clean and lube my marker I would neglect to take apart my reg and clean the springs. you'd v be surprized how much gunk builds up back there.
remember to grease it up pretty good after you clean it. :cheers:
Yeah I did that last night and found some dirt and stuff in there. Is there any grease you recommend? Once I test it on the field i'll let you guys know. Thanks a lot for all the tips.

[Spider-TW]

Do you think that if I get a asa that has some angle that would help? I have in my bag the stock one that has a small angle so that the bottle doesn't sit completely horizontal. The one I have in the gun is a bechmark with on off that sit completrly horizontal, parallel to the bottom part of the grip frame.
The angle will help, but you may not like it with a 20 oz. Personally, I'm pretty picky about back bottle weight and position on each marker. If you like it where it is and will be keeping the setup for a while a tube may be worth the effort.

On the reg springs, something thick is best. The back is open (and should be), and it can collect dirt and moisture. Automotive bearing grease on these springs only is common, easy and typical from the factory. That's why old mag spring packs look so nasty. :)

[Coralis]

One thing have to remember when mounting a bottle horizontally is that if for any reason you point the barrel at the ground you just poured liquid CO2 into your airlines which can cause problems. Another thing that can cause you similar problems is if bottle and ASA don't match up well (either not pushing the pin valve in far enough or too far in causing air flow issues)

[DevilMan]

I would refrain from using 3 in 1 or any other petrol based lube in your gun.

The pressures can cause "dieseling" of the oil which is compressing it to the point of ignition.

Use only PB oil in your system.

DM

[chefomar]

I would refrain from using 3 in 1 or any other petrol based lube in your gun.

The pressures can cause "dieseling" of the oil which is compressing it to the point of ignition.

Use only PB oil in your system.

DM
What? that's crazy :wow: . I've never heard that, but be sure that I won't put it again! The last thing I want to happen to me is that. But I'll have some in my bag in case someone from the other team needs some oil. :D

[Dalm]

Any pneumatic / air tool oil will work good as well. It is basically the same thing you pay more for in pb stores if not better.

[chefomar]

Any pneumatic / air tool oil will work good as well. It is basically the same thing you pay more for in pb stores if not better.
Yeah, I'm sure about that. I payed $5 for a 1 oz. bottle of PB oil. :cry: It's more expensive than Mobil One :D

[Spider-TW]

Oils that are synthetic (or just non-petroleum) and about the same viscosity as 3in1 or a little lighter are good to try. Rub a drop between your fingers and you also get an idea of how well it will flow, lubricate, and stick. If you don't feel like you need to wash it off, that's a bad sign.