Pmump Mag vs. Pump Cocker?

[TeamBob]

Ok, first, i know im on a mag site so dont cut my head off. Ive had 12 r so magsand no cockers for a reason. But im looking to change it up a little bit. I have topped my game and field with my ULEd classic, nowi wanna go even more old school for more of a challenge. Not getting rid of my gear, but i tend to be a gun whore :D So imready for something else.

I want to go with a nicer (more then a mav or tracer) pump. Ive also havent had cocker yet, but am deff. not going with 1 with pneus. So pump looks good. A cocker knock off would be fine to start with. Prices look really good. $100ish which is a +

On the other hand, im a die hard Mag lover. And the only 1 repping 1 at my local field. They used to be everywhere, but ya know how that went. Also, i have never personally seen/shot a pump mag. All i have really seen is the few i have seen on here for sale from time to time. So getting 1 would be a huge plus. Ive seen the go on here for $350ish. Any chance of picking 1 up for any less? Wouldnt have to be anything special, just pumped.

I have never shot either. Any1 want to compare? Or even chime in on what you know, think, opinions, or personal experiances with either...

Thanks in advance. and yes i know my spelling sucks and that this is pretty random. Sorry.

:cheers:

[snoopay700]

Pump mags are expensive to make and aren't efficient, the sheridan design of the cocker is, i would go with a cocker. Mags aren't meant to be pumps.

[dyeforever]

a pump mag is more of a novelty then anything. if you want a good pump get a cheap cocker and throw a pump kit on it.

[DevilMan]

I shoot both. As well as phantoms and tracers and tigersharks.

A pump mag set up right... is the utmost is buttery smooth. It's true they weren't designed to be pumps. And you have to "break" them to make them pumps. But when they are set right... ahhhhh yeahhhhhh.....

Now cockers are cockers. If you've been around at all you know what the pneu's can do and what headaches they can be. So throw a pump kit on and that all goes away.

A properly set up cocker can also be smooth but I still like the pump on a mag or lack there of over the cocker. BUT you can get set up some cockers to run with very light springs all the way around and "AIR" pump them if you do it right. My J2 is set up as such.

One issue that I have to this day and have ALWAYS had with cockers though is ROLLOUTS!!!! I HATE THEM!!!! Not only do they leave you shooting air, they also tremendously mess up your FPS reading if you aren't paying attention. That is the issue that I have with cockers. Pure and simple. I would stay away from the auto trigger as well, because well... I've got one and don't use it. :D When you get used to pumping and pulling then the AT gets forgotten. Or it did with me at least.

Let me know what you are looking to get and I'll hook you up with something maybe.

I am pretty sure I have what will work for ya so just let me know when you get ready to pull the trigger on a cocker pump and we can go from there.

Best of luck either way,

DM

[snoopay700]

I shoot both. As well as phantoms and tracers and tigersharks.

A pump mag set up right... is the utmost is buttery smooth. It's true they weren't designed to be pumps. And you have to "break" them to make them pumps. But when they are set right... ahhhhh yeahhhhhh.....

Now cockers are cockers. If you've been around at all you know what the pneu's can do and what headaches they can be. So throw a pump kit on and that all goes away.

A properly set up cocker can also be smooth but I still like the pump on a mag or lack there of over the cocker. BUT you can get set up some cockers to run with very light springs all the way around and "AIR" pump them if you do it right. My J2 is set up as such.

One issue that I have to this day and have ALWAYS had with cockers though is ROLLOUTS!!!! I HATE THEM!!!! Not only do they leave you shooting air, they also tremendously mess up your FPS reading if you aren't paying attention. That is the issue that I have with cockers. Pure and simple. I would stay away from the auto trigger as well, because well... I've got one and don't use it. :D When you get used to pumping and pulling then the AT gets forgotten. Or it did with me at least.

Let me know what you are looking to get and I'll hook you up with something maybe.

I am pretty sure I have what will work for ya so just let me know when you get ready to pull the trigger on a cocker pump and we can go from there.

Best of luck either way,

DM
That's simply because ta pumpmag makes it so the bolt can't reset, then you just have to push it back that last eight of an inch or whatever, so it would make sense that ti's smooth since you're not pushing against much, just a small wave spring. In a normal pump you have to compress the spring for the hammer, but that being said you still don't get anywhere near as good efficiency usually as you do out of a sheridan valve. And honestly, if i'm playing pump, especially stock class, efficiency is a big deal to me.

[DevilMan]

Oh I don't argue the efficiency part at all. Hell it's a MAG.... Efficient and MAG don't really go together last I checked. You want to worry about you air/co2 then sure run a phantom.

But thankfully we are all different.

:D


DM

[snoopay700]

Oh I don't argue the efficiency part at all. Hell it's a MAG.... Efficient and MAG don't really go together last I checked. You want to worry about you air/co2 then sure run a phantom.

But thankfully we are all different.

:D


DM
Yeah, that's actually why i got a drop out phantom, i'm just letting him know that if he's thinking stock class expect no more than 20 shots if you're lucky i think (that was the figure last i checked i'm pretty sure).

[Spider-TW]

One issue that I have to this day and have ALWAYS had with cockers though is ROLLOUTS!!!! I HATE THEM!!!! Not only do they leave you shooting air, they also tremendously mess up your FPS reading if you aren't paying attention. That is the issue that I have with cockers. Pure and simple.
I'll second that.

Pump mags are excellent for pump play at scenarios. You can wonder around with a ball in the breech. If you don't remember if you pumped after your last shot, pump it again; it doesn't matter. If the producers give you inconsistent paint, just over bore the barrel and you can at least shoot it through. Efficiency isn't much of a problem for scenarios.

[going_home]

I had a pump mag and didn't like it, too finicky. The pump mag is gone and the S6 is still here. Nuff said.

[Smoothice]

its all about preference.

I would say to try each and decide from there. But the chances of someone locally having a pumpmag are very slim.

I use a pumpmag and a pump cocker. I have found the cocker to be more brittle paint friendly. And when playing pump every shot counts. So I prefer brittle paint.

This means I use the cocker more. And because of this I have gotten used to the pump stroke. So even though a mag is butter smooth it feels off from what i'm used too.

I'd say pick up a cheap cocker. See if you even like playing pump. If you do then start building a pump mag.

[Smoothice]

I had a pump mag and didn't like it, too finicky. The pump mag is gone and the S6 is still here. Nuff said.

Everytime someone has a budget of under $200 you tell them to buy a $400 s6.

Not that helpful...

[snoopay700]

I'll second that.

Pump mags are excellent for pump play at scenarios. You can wonder around with a ball in the breech. If you don't remember if you pumped after your last shot, pump it again; it doesn't matter. If the producers give you inconsistent paint, just over bore the barrel and you can at least shoot it through. Efficiency isn't much of a problem for scenarios.
It is if you plan on only playing stock class for a while haha. If i go to a scenario that's how i intend to play.

[TeamBob]

maybe i can find some1 who would wanna trade for a phantom for either. ;) If not, i have been and still am leading towards picking something like a Superbolt or a lightning up and pumping it.

And yes i have heard that the superbolts need to have the pump rod cut down a little. that wouldnt be a big deal


So With the Pump mag, u just change the blue spacer and spring. But the spring isnt enough to push the bolt back, so you pump the bolt the rest of the way back. Correct?

[JOESPUD27]

I prefer a Sniper setup.

I owned a p-mag, didn't care for it much. While it was smooth, I just like the stacked tube better.

Jay

[DevilMan]

maybe i can find some1 who would wanna trade for a phantom for either. ;) If not, i have been and still am leading towards picking something like a Superbolt or a lightning up and pumping it.

And yes i have heard that the superbolts need to have the pump rod cut down a little. that wouldnt be a big deal


So With the Pump mag, u just change the blue spacer and spring. But the spring isnt enough to push the bolt back, so you pump the bolt the rest of the way back. Correct?


You are familiar with how the spring pushes the bolt back and it catches on the sear after each shot right? Well with the wave spring in there you can tune it so that the bolt LIP actually sits on the sear and there can be a VERY SMALL amount of back travel left to complete it locking back. Seriously less than 1/8" if you tune it right and have consistent settings. When you go to pump it, the majority of travel is free travel. That is to allow the pump arm that sticks up inside the breech the room to go forward out of the way of the bolt as it's a wonky design in that the pump arm has to "climb the ramp" that is milled in the rail to stick up and hit the bolt. Then it comes forward and drops back down into the rail out of the way. But you only need a spring if any at all on the pump arm strong enough to push the pump handle back forward. On most of my pumps I try and tune them to where the springs pushing the handle forward are just strong enough so if I hold the gun vertical then it will push the pump handle out all the way to it's stops.

On a cocker you have to pump the handle a 3/4" inch give or take each time. As you are opening the breech to allow a ball in, the bolt has to clear the breech. You have to compress the hammer/IVG/valve/pump springs. *Maybe not the valve but it gets moved by air* So you stroke it back and lock the hammer back. Tuning it is easier than tuning a mech cocker because you take out the trigger/cocking side of things for the air. But the stroke can be set up smooth and light with the right spring/air/reg combo.

For a noob pump'r??? Yeah I would go with cocker over mag. But there are plenty of other pumps out there, though I think cocker/sniper pumps are much more prevalent so you'd get more help if you needed it.

DM

[Spider-TW]

It is if you plan on only playing stock class for a while haha. If i go to a scenario that's how i intend to play.
For sure, in scenarios playing style is most important.

I was just saying that pump mags have some benefit there. I only play pump on group "pump days" rec ball, and that's with my superbolt body w/flatline and AGD grip frame. I hate rollouts but the stroke is like the piranha lb I used to have and liked (for a pump). I'm learning to prevent and live with the rollouts.

My son started pump play with an SL-68, which is a nelson system. We smoothed it up a lot, but he likes the pump mag for the consistent velocity and much lighter stroke, especially in big battles.

[Sumthinwicked]

get a pahntom designed to be a pump LOL had a few pmags they are great but eh not my tthing and cockers well the only one id use is a pump LOL so stick with pgps or phantoms, carters and the such

[halB]

Automag "pumps" are not pumps.

They are guns that carry out every function of a semi-auto gun - except it is prevented from completing the last 1/10th of an inch of the cycle, which you must complete. So you are not "pumping" the gun to reset the bolt, load the ball, and prime the hammer, you are making a broken gun work.

So all that gas, all that CO2, it's still wasted cycling all parts of a semi-auto gun. You don't get the weight, efficiency, or any of the savings you would get from a real pump.

Buy a superbolt and pump it. 80 bux, tops.

[GroovYChickeN 2.o]

I have both a pump mag and cocker. I love them both.

The mag is just great. I have enjoyed playing with it every chance I get. If you know how to tune a gun then you can run a pump mag, they are not that hard to set up, you just need to take the time to work on it.

The cocker is solid and reliable just as much as the mag is. The only big difference between my guns is the weight. My mag is a lot heavier than the cocker, mainly because of the SS mini-mag body with added 12rd SS feed tube and the SS classic valve. Opposed to the cocker that is all aluminum.

Yes the pump stroke is different on both guns but honestly who cares. When your playing you don't really notice the different, and if you do your paying too much attention to your gun and not enough on the game.

Seeing as how your looking to a cheaper solution I would go for a phantom or a cocker myself. The idea of a pump mag is great and they are really really fun to have. However, the costs will be a factor. I've easily spent around $700 or so on mine. After you get to liking pump play and if you really want to then go for the pump mag then do it. For now though, just find something to play with. :cheers:

[flyingpootang]

I own 2 pumpmages, a pgp, a duckslide/phantom and a super bolt. I've never had a problem with my pumpmag and setting it up is very simple. For me the pumpmag is superior for it's butta smooooth pump and trigger pull (ULT). I shot sandfreestyles S6 and must admit for a cocker the trigger was excellent. For me it comes down to relaibility and ease of maintaince. If your valve leaks on a phantom, sheridan or cocker on the field it's going to take some time to fix. If your mags leaks it's a simple o-ring/s. Jay8541 and rainmann229 have kits + milling for 200. add a 80-90 mag and you have something unique........
I know most of you are tired of seeing this thing, but here's mine
http://i537.photobucket.com/albums/ff333/flyingpootang/th_pumpmag.jpg (http://s537.photobucket.com/albums/ff333/flyingpootang/?action=view&current=pumpmag.jpg)

[GroovYChickeN 2.o]

I own 2 pumpmages, a pgp, a duckslide/phantom and a super bolt. I've never had a problem with my pumpmag and setting it up is very simple. For me the pumpmag is superior for it's butta smooooth pump and trigger pull (ULT). I shot sandfreestyles S6 and must admit for a cocker the trigger was excellent. For me it comes down to relaibility and ease of maintaince. If your valve leaks on a phantom, sheridan or cocker on the field it's going to take some time to fix. If your mags leaks it's a simple o-ring/s. Jay8541 and rainmann229 have kits + milling for 200. add a 80-90 mag and you have something unique........
I know most of you are tired of seeing this thing, but here's mine
http://i537.photobucket.com/albums/ff333/flyingpootang/th_pumpmag.jpg (http://s537.photobucket.com/albums/ff333/flyingpootang/?action=view&current=pumpmag.jpg)

No way man, that pumpmag is sweet. I just wish mine looked that good.

[Chrishew09]

i have two old school cocker pumps, inexpensive, reliable, aftermarket parts galore, oh did i mention cheap to make.
my friend has a pumpmag it is smooth, but it took a lot of tinkering to get it that way.

bottom line it's all personal preference.

[TeamBob]

thanks for all the info fella. Its much appreciated. :cheers:

[going_home]

Everytime someone has a budget of under $200 you tell them to buy a $400 s6.

Not that helpful...


On the contrary, dont waste your money, get a good one to start with.
If you look around you can get a good price on one.
And get a cocker.

;)

[lvl]

"Pump" mags are anything but, as the other dude said. All you are doing is completing a fraction of an inch of the reset cycle.

We need to see someone take an electro, build a pump handle for it, slap in a microswitch, rewire the electronics so that the pump stroke (1/16" of an inch small enough?) arms the trigger. Then take their "pump" electro to the field and claim they pwned everyone fair and square.

I wonder how people would react...

Moral of the story. If it was designed to be a semi, leave it semi!

[GroovYChickeN 2.o]

If it was designed to be a semi, leave it semi!

Yeah but where is the fun in that? ;)

[PumpMag]

This is why the Automag is still around after so many years. You can make it whatever you want. Semi, electro, pneumatic, or pump.

What other marker has that kind of flexibility?

If you want a pumpmag just do it!

[snoopay700]

This is why the Automag is still around after so many years. You can make it whatever you want. Semi, electro, pneumatic, or pump.

What other marker has that kind of flexibility?

If you want a pumpmag just do it!
You forgot electro-pneumatic, and you can't make it bolt action. :p :rofl:

Hell you can even make a pistol out of it. No need for the stupid squall, it's cool and all but gets the same efficiency about and costs a hell of a lot more.

[Spider-TW]

"Pump" mags are anything but, as the other dude said. All you are doing is completing a fraction of an inch of the reset cycle.
That is what you're doing to the bolt; however, the pump stroke is still a full bolt stroke length and there is no autotrigger. This allows you to play with other pump players on the same level of firepower and skill, which is the main point for playing pump in the first place.

If you play a lot of stock class, there's not much benefit in owning a pump mag. But if you usually play with a mag, a pump mag is usually easy to pick up and roll with it.

[Puzuma]

Does anyone know if a lvl X works well as a pump?

[Smoothice]

Does anyone know if a lvl X works well as a pump?

It does not work well. It is more prone to leaks from the powertube from the wave spring. And it is mostly unneeded as the rate of fire is so low. You will also use more air then with a level 7 bolt.