Fake Myth regs are Still around

[druid]

Originating forum and thread: http://milsimempire.com/viewtopic.php?f=138&t=5073&p=57816#p57816

Bulk of the original post from MilSig (of MilSig Industries) from one year ago:


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Originating forum and thread: http://milsimempire.com/viewtopic.php?f=138&t=5073&p=57816#p57816

Bulk of the original post from MilSig (of MilSig Industries) from one year ago:


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Hi All, consider what I'm about to show you a public safety warning. I also want to warn any paintball businesses to think twice before they order anything from this company. www.paintball-gun.cn

I'm going to show you an illustration of one of their products, and email excerpts exchanged between my purchasing agent in Taiwan, and the sales rep "Rosa" at this company.

Background Story...

For about 2 months straight, myself and my staff have received spam mail from a bunch of China based manufacturers. One of them being www.paintball-gun.cn (TMT Paintball). I don't usually read these things and I had them forwarded to my purchasing guy, Mr. Chen. We just happen to be looking for some regs as we're switching over to HPA bottles from CO2 at our rental fields. Chen shows me what looks to be a MYTH regulator and asked me if we should buy some if they were safe and usable. I then told Chen to ask for samples from TMT and he proceeded an email exchange with them.

After a few emails, Rosa told Chen that the price for the reg is $15 USD with a MOQ (Minimum Order Quantity) of 100 pcs. Rosa then offers to send a sample over, it arrived the next day via Fedex.

Chen opened the pkg and looked over the reg, everything seemed normal. He then attached it to a 13 CI alum bottle we had lying around. As it was a 4500 psi reg and a 3000psi bottle, he went down to the basement and proceeded to fill it with our 3000 psi scuba tank. He plugs in it, turns on the valve and NOTHING...air does not seem to be going in. He comes back upstairs just as I walked into the office, and he hands it over to me for a closer look.

So I took it apart and the very first thing I noticed was that the nipple wasn't a standard size. It wasn't a US sized fill nipple, nor a slightly smaller one used in Europe. It was some sort of metal that had a shiny surface plating. I then took it downstairs myself and proceeded to fill it, again nothing. I took it back upstairs and took it apart to see what the problem was.

As I broke it down, my jaw dropped. There were so few parts inside, and upon closer inspection, there were absolutely NO safety features on this reg. What is supposedly a burst disc is nothing by a piece of plated brass with a hole drilled through it. Inside of the reg, there was NOTHING that regulated the air pressure down (there's usually a series of discs and valves and "turns" the air, forcing the pressure down). The fill nipple was the same plated metal and the hole that was drilled thru it was very small. The spring valve had no slot drilled into it, so when we tried to fill it, it actually created a perfect seal inside.

The fact that this thing did NOT fill probably saved our lives. Had we achieved in filling the bottle and connected it to a marker, all 3000 psi would go right into the marker, probably blowing up the gun. We could have been seriously hurt or even killed if anything had exploded.

Chen and I were both dumbfounded once we opened this thing up, and upon realizing the danger we'd just avoided, Chen proceeded to contact Rosa to tell her our findings.

Here's the email exchange...

Rosa, I had received the sample you sent me by Fedex. I thank you very much for sending it. Upon inspection of the unit, I’m disappointed to tell you that it does not work. I had your regulator sample taken apart. Theirs is NOTHING inside that REGULATES the air pressure. I don’t think your company knows anything about safety and manufacturing of products. You can’t have possibly sold this product to anyone before without them telling you about it. With high pressure air, if you’re not careful, a bottle or a gun can explode. Are you trying to get someone killed?

Sincerely,

Chen Wei

Reply..

Dear Mr.Chen,

Thank you for your opinion.
We have export at least 1000pcs of this item to Other countries at before and nothing had happened. Therefore, we are very surprise when you tell me about it.
I will tell your opinion to my engineer to ask them about it.

best regards
sincerely
Rosa
April 8th


After this email exchange, I took this regulator down to my friend Mr. Sun for a closer inspection. Mr. Sun is one of the most knowledgeable Paintball experts in all of Taiwan, he owns the company that makes the mini invert, and the BT TM7. He also makes air products like regulators, fill stations, etc. He takes the reg apart and looks at it and just shakes his head. He says there's no way in hell that this regulator would work with the parts it had. He also finds it completely bogus that TMT can sell 1000 of these things without anyone getting hurt or dead...

These TMT people obviously do not have any clue how a regulator works, and what kind of danger they put someone in with the garbage they're selling. These people are not selling teddy bears, they're selling a device that is designed to control thousands of pounds of air pressure. Please do NOT support manufacturers like them by buying their products. Everything comes at a price for a reason. I hope to God that they really didn't sell 1000 of these things into Europe. If ANY of you see an online ad selling a cheap reg, stay FAR FAR AWAY!

The following is a quick illustration I made with pictures I took from my cell phone...not the best quality, but you see the actual reg they sent me.

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii8/milsig/4500psi-bomb.jpg


The reason I'm reposting this is because apparently the company is still selling these regs but without the Myth logos on them.

Remember......if the deal is "too good to be true"........it probably is.



druid out.

[cockerpunk]

well fortunately there are many fail safes on a gun to prevent it from exploding. i really doubt thats even possible under normal conditions.

your macro line would blow
your macro fittings would blow
your reg would probably leak
your soliniod would blow

but thats no excuse. safety is a number 1 priority when it comes to compressed air.

unfortunatly this is DIRECTLY a byproduct of Gorilla Air and there attempts to make there already marginally safe reg even cheaper overseas and then importing it to the USA.

BUY AMERICAN MADE

REWARD COMPANIES THAT DONT DO THIS

and like TK always said - VOTE WITH YOUR MONEY

[Beemer]

well fortunately there are many fail safes on a gun to prevent it from exploding. i really doubt thats even possible under normal conditions.

your macro line would blow
your macro fittings would blow
your reg would probably leak
your soliniod would blow

but thats no excuse. safety is a number 1 priority when it comes to compressed air.

unfortunatly this is DIRECTLY a byproduct of Gorilla Air and there attempts to make there already marginally safe reg even cheaper overseas and then importing it to the USA.

BUY AMERICAN MADE

REWARD COMPANIES THAT DONT DO THIS

and like TK always said - VOTE WITH YOUR MONEY

Well tell me what the fail safes are. I dont know. I am an uninformed uneducated NEW player.

My line WONT blow cause I use RATED lines. My fitting wont blow cause it is rated. My Reg is intragated and rated at 3000psi and tested at 5000 plus so yes it probably wont FAIL, it WILL leak or vent.[which is a failure] That is with a full tank reg failure that will dump a full fill at 4500psi right to my gun. Of course that wont happen if the down stream disk blows. IF your reg has a down stream disk.

Whats a solinoid? Is that something on on e gun that meets or follows standards. Of course the LPR would go first wouldnt it?

Safety IS number one or so we say. Maybe folks should do SAFETY testing first and foremost[hint hint] :cheers:

Buy American. I do, AGD Mag is all I own. I reward them with my $$ cause they really do put safety first. Their gun is tested and rated to 3000psi and that is UNDERRATED. If my tank reg fails I am happy to know I am safe with my Mag even if it takes a full 4500 psi hit. :clap: So what ARE the SAFETY features on gun and tank regs. What is the SAFEST gun, tank reg? I know these are questions that should go in my what are the questions thread. The point is no one cares no one asks and they dont tell.

Tk is right to vote with your $$s. The problem is the uninformed and uneducated are voting with thier $$ :cheers:

[Beemer]

Hey Druid will you fix the colors in the first post? Its a pain to read unless you highlite it. :cheers:

[druid]

Hey Druid will you fix the colors in the first post? Its a pain to read unless you highlite it. :cheers:

Sorry Beemer....this was a straight "Quote/Copy/Paste" from the originating forum. I have fixed the colorization at your request with my apologies.

To everyone else, this isn't designed to be a "gripe-fest" at GuerrillaAir. I have both Guerrilla models, Myth and FUKU and have NEVER had an issue with either one of them. The Myth I purchased when it first came out.....alone, no tank and in a plastic, clamshell blister box. I've NEVER had an issue with leaks, stripped threads (as was mentioned on Nation), shoot down, damage to the ORing gland, nothing. The model FUKU s their LE version of their Assault reg. It too is awesome and has performed flawlessly.

The point of this thread is to make the people aware that fakes are abound AND UNSAFE. To quibble and debate about "how/why" is irrelevant. The OP has the name of the company producing and selling these regs......which really aren't regs at all...since they have NONE of the "regulation" or safety components the Myth reg has. Please treat this thread as the public safety warning it's meant to be. Thanks.

[secretweaponevan]

Another reason to buy Ninja (http://www.ninjapaintball.com/index.asp) regs.

[JOESPUD27]

Well, it's a shame the Myth was copied by a poor, unsafe knockoff.

Danny @ GA won't produce/sell anything that isn't safe. Buyer beware should be the key here.

Make sure if you're buying a Myth that is it the real thing. GA stands by the products and their reputation of safety in the industry.

Jay

[cockerpunk]

Well, it's a shame the Myth was copied by a poor, unsafe knockoff.

Danny @ GA won't produce/sell anything that isn't safe. Buyer beware should be the key here.

Make sure if you're buying a Myth that is it the real thing. GA stands by the products and their reputation of safety in the industry.

Jay

ah but danny would go overseas and pepper a crap ton of OEM manufacturers to see which one was the cheapest and then buy those. then those OEMs that didn't cut it had to eat there losses and try to get rid of them.

its GAs design, its out there because of GA and there outsourcing and i lay the blame directly on GA for all this crap.

[georgeyew]

ah but danny would go overseas and pepper a crap ton of OEM manufacturers to see which one was the cheapest and then buy those. then those OEMs that didn't cut it had to eat there losses and try to get rid of them.

its GAs design, its out there because of GA and there outsourcing and i lay the blame directly on GA for all this crap.

Cocker, it's not really fair to blame GA for other people stealing their reg design and producing subpar products.

I doubt that Dan asked all of the manufacturers to produce the regs and THEN decided which one to buy from. The ones that didn't get selected should not have produced any regs in the first place.

[JOESPUD27]

It still doesn't leave GA without being tested. They don't sell unsafe products.

You lay blame on Danny, thats fine. He's got thick enough skin to take your comments. ;)
He's a business man, looking for the cheapest way to get his SAFE products to his customers.

Jay

[Dend78]

I dont see a problem here i see a screaming RT here :rofl:

thats great where is the made in china stamp

[cockerpunk]

I doubt that Dan asked all of the manufacturers to produce the regs and THEN decided which one to buy from. The ones that didn't get selected should not have produced any regs in the first place.

well thats what happened ...

[Lohman446]

well thats what happened ...


Are you certain, or is it a case of (and this is pretty standard) simple theft of intellectual propery in China and a poor attempt to copy it without the original holder having anything to do with it?

[Shane-O-Mac]

well thats what happened ...

Do you have proof of this or is it "I was told by someone reputable"??????

Just curious.

[3DSteve]

CP - It sounds like you should take this up with Mr. Colby personally at Living Legends(much like you did with Smart Parts last year). Find me and I'll be glad to introduce you. I'll be the guy in the purple Total Greif jersey with the big number 12. I think you'll find that Dan will have a much better explanation of the situation than you or I could be privy to. :)

[cockerpunk]

privy to being the key phrase ...

i am also privy to sources which i cannot quote with alot of insight into the air tank industry ...

i dont have any problem talking to people, never have, never will. doesn't mean it will change anything, and often it gives me more reason or better explanations of my original thoughts. i'd love to meet him, see what he says.

but steve, you should know, im not an arbitrary kinda person. if i claim something, i usually have a reason to be claiming it.

[Beemer]

privy to being the key phrase ...

i am also privy to sources which i cannot quote with alot of insight into the air tank industry ...

i dont have any problem talking to people, never have, never will. doesn't mean it will change anything, and often it gives me more reason or better explanations of my original thoughts. i'd love to meet him, see what he says.

but steve, you should know, im not an arbitrary kinda person. if i claim something, i usually have a reason to be claiming it.


I can quote them. So you havent even met or even talked to him then? Is that correct?

But yet you can say that is what happened cause you are privy to sources which you wont quote. If you are going to claim something it would behoove you to have some facts to back it up. I know Dan personally. I will get in touch with him and then come back with my sources that I am privy to and post some facts. One thing you will learn, there is always more to the story then you know or were told.

[cockerpunk]

I can quote them. So you havent even met or even talked to him then? Is that correct?

But yet you can say that is what happened cause you are privy to sources which you wont quote. If you are going to claim something it would behoove you to have some facts to back it up. I know Dan personally. I will get in touch with him and then come back with my sources that I am privy to and post some facts. One thing you will learn, there is always more to the story then you know or were told.

that goes both ways beemer .... that exact point goes both ways.

[Beemer]

that goes both ways beemer .... that exact point goes both ways.

Sure it does but I am not the one in here saying thats what happened am I?

[Lohman446]

Asking a company to produce a prototype does not give them the right to snag the design for themselves and / or produce a product to compete against you using your intelectual property. I just don't see how the original manufacturer is responsible for someone else producing an inferior copy of their design.

[Chronobreak]

Do you have proof of this or is it "I was told by someone reputable"??????

Just curious.

there is a machine show in town that was one of many asked to make the regs, give a quote and send them in for testing.

i assume this is the case as cockerpunk said.


Im not a fan of myth regs because...

they seem to vary greatly on output pressures and consistency.

the regs seem to "bind up" and dont want to let any air out of tank.

and they tend to come undone from the tank much easier than most other regs in my experience.

Tell danny you say? personaly i tried ...i have sent a few dozen tanks back for repairs a few times now only to keep having the same problems over and over. Danny never seemed to be around or was unavailable when i called and never returned one of the 8+ calls and messages i left with the "secretary"

I am persoanly dissatisfied, I cannot reccomend these regs to anyone, and if the real ones are as troublesome as i ahve seen, i can only imagine how bad the knockoffs are.

[Dawg047]

I have never had a major problem with a GA reg. I got the The 68/4500 Myth reg with GA tank and it is superb. I did have one instance where the output spiked but GA fixed it no problems. It is a very nice tank. It is very small and light and looks great. It puts out a very consistent 850psi.

I do not believe that the knockoffs are of any fault due to GA. There regs are patened and if some other company is selling an unpatened reg that "looks" like a Myth, then how is that GA's fault? People sell knockoffs all the time.
Just because you buy a knockoff Rolex watch and it quits a week in, does that mean that is Rolex's fault? It is the world we live in folks. People sell knockoffs all the time because guess what, people buy them! Why, people are poor, people want a cheaper way, people don't do research. Some times it is ok and knockoffs are good, sometimes it is bad. It is the consumers fault really unless a company is branding the same name on an item.

Hey, I am a new company. I want to make money. Hey, DYE makes money off of barrels. Hey, I will make a barrel out of cheap aluminum that looks just like a DYE barrel. Hey, people don't pay attention so they buy my product and I get rich. Yay!!!! Now, who's fault is that? Not my "NEW" company or DYE's. It is the consumer. My "NEW" company didn't do anything wrong. We just marketed really well. We just played the marketing game. See, that is how that works.
And if there are reasons this is GA's fault, can we get some creditable sources so we can look at both sides of the story here? Some people are so quick to point fingers when they do not know the full story.

Now, the whole fake myth regs that were branded as Myths is completely wrong if not illegal. But folks, we can't buy from uncreditable sources and we defiantely can't buy an unbranded reg just becaue it "Looks" like a Myth. Thanks. :cheers:

[Lohman446]

there is a machine show in town that was one of many asked to make the regs, give a quote and send them in for testing.

i assume this is the case as cockerpunk said.


So how does this make the company responsible if one of those companies they had quote and build a reg for testing make an inferior knock-off?

[druid]

So how does this make the company responsible if one of those companies they had quote and build a reg for testing make an inferior knock-off?

I agree.

Everyone else, think of it like this....

IF GA had a company prototype/produce a reg with cheaper labor costs than can be made in the US...and they do, GA still holds the patent for that reg and sells it under that name.

But the company contracted to produce it still has all the machinery and tooling CADs for the overall design.

GA says "we want 4 million units" and the company makes those 4 million and ships them out. Now they have access to all kinds of material to make their own and with newly received monies from the original production run to play with.

They set out to copy the reg but go cheap on the internals and in fact, CHANGE the design of the internals [possibly to offset some "legal" issue (and in fact, creating others)] and sell them on their own for additional income.

It's no different than a drug dealer buying a Kilo of Coke, saving one half for himself and cutting the rest of it into another 1.5 Keys for redistribuition.

Right or wrong and regardless of how you feel about the export of "jobs" and labor.......the company that's making these fakes is DEAD WRONG and even MORE SO because they AREN'T keeping in line with safety the devices in the original design.

And I have 2 GA regs and have to say that I've NEVER had an issue with EITHER of them. The Myth is a 'medium pressure' reg intended for those markers that operate under 550 psi but require a faster [than the usual LP] recharge. You can get different spring packs to make it HP if you like.