View Full Version : ON/OFF chopping O-rings?
I'm still new to mags (really want to keep learning though) so bear with me please :)
I'm going to continue from THIS THREAD (http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=241820)... I pulled out the stock on/off, and the little o-ring that goes on the top of the on/off pin looks like it was cut by the on/off pin. I can upload pictures if you guys want, but I replaced the o-ring that was cut and the next time I gassed up the gun and fired it with the new o-ring it started RT'ing (yes, the trigger was resetting) almost as fast as it was shooting automatic in the last thread, but after a while it just started shooting automatic like it did before. I ungassed the gun, took out the on/off, and it had cut the new o-ring in the same way it did the first one.
What do you guys think? I'll upload some pictures in a second, but is this very unusual?
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii191/om3n07/S1050028.jpg
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii191/om3n07/S1050029.jpg
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii191/om3n07/S1050030.jpg
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii191/om3n07/S1050031.jpg
Tunaman
04-26-2009, 04:18 PM
Never saw that before. Is it a 2 oring valve? Are you installing the larger oring down in the hole first, then popping in the on/off assy with the small oring on the pin?Is the pin broken? You need to measure it.
dark blade
04-26-2009, 05:58 PM
no idea how to fix it, but i must say i am glad someone else knows about macro photography aside from me :)
nice photos. very crisp and clear to see the problem
Watcher
04-26-2009, 07:43 PM
If the o-rings are dried out they can crack, make sure you oil the o-ring before you install it and put some oil in the ASA when you air it up.
Also, don't try to go full out as fast as you can until you've fired a few hundred shots, that'll help the o-ring break in...
Other than that, I can't say I've seen that either.
You might want to check the pin and the seat (inside the valve) for any burrs.
Dark Side
04-26-2009, 08:13 PM
I've seen 3 of my Quad rings cut in my E/Xmags but never seen that happen to a regular ring. I think Watcher is right.
I've seen 3 of my Quad rings cut in my E/Xmags but never seen that happen to a regular ring. I think Watcher is right.
alright guys, thanks for the replies.
Tomorrow I'll check the pin for straightness/defects, and then I will put yet another o-ring on the on/off and lube it up nice and good, and try to shoot it slowly for a few shots first. If it chops another o-ring though, I don't know how many more I have left...
Ok I haven't tried anything yet, but the strange thing is when I have been gassing up the gun it seems like the o-ring on top of the on/off automatically gets jammed above the on/off pin... and it seems like that sometimes when I pull the trigger because I can't pull the trigger all the way- the sear feels like it's meeting resistance. I think that the on/off is ramming this o-ring, causing the on/off to NOT shut all the way, thus making the gun fire continually.
When I was first shooting the gun with the new o-ring it was RT'ing quite well (I have never tried getting my mag to RT before) but, as I said before, after a while it just starting shooting like it did in the video in the other thread, and again when I pulled out the valve, that same o-ring on the on/off was chopped.
So hopefully if I oil the next o-ring I put on the on/off, gas it up with on of my 800psi outputting tanks and fire a couple dozen shots to break in the new o-ring, THEN try RT'ing with my 850psi outputting tank, it should not chop the o-ring.
right?
Spider-TW
04-27-2009, 09:38 AM
Is your valve an x-valve? I'm not sure from the video.
It looks like your on/off top is loose. I've had them loose before but not causing any trouble. Your problem should be either oring support and/or pin alignment. Letting the top get crooked or pin bent would push the oring out.
I would suspect a valve drilled out for a ULT might have too much space at the top, but your valve looks all black (x-valve).
Make sure your on/off is screwed down snug when you put it in and the valve is snug on the rail. I didn't think there was enough room at the top for the oring to come out.
Did you answer Tunaman's question about the 2 orings? Do you put the larger one in there also?
Is your valve an x-valve? I'm not sure from the video.
It looks like your on/off top is loose. I've had them loose before but not causing any trouble. Your problem should be either oring support and/or pin alignment. Letting the top get crooked or pin bent would push the oring out.
I would suspect a valve drilled out for a ULT might have too much space at the top, but your valve looks all black (x-valve).
Make sure your on/off is screwed down snug when you put it in and the valve is snug on the rail. I didn't think there was enough room at the top for the oring to come out.
Did you answer Tunaman's question about the 2 orings? Do you put the larger one in there also?
honestly, I'm not sure about a second o-ring, so I'm gonna say no? Where would this other o-ring go? Maybe that's the problem. Again, I'm new to mags still so please bare with my lack of knowledge!
Also, yes it is an x-valve. I will take more pictures when I get home, and I will also try to tighten down the on/off but I think it's pretty tight.
Spider-TW
04-27-2009, 10:30 AM
honestly, I'm not sure about a second o-ring, so I'm gonna say no? Where would this other o-ring go? Maybe that's the problem. Again, I'm new to mags still so please bare with my lack of knowledge!
Also, yes it is an x-valve. I will take more pictures when I get home, and I will also try to tighten down the on/off but I think it's pretty tight.
I think Tuna had you marked. :)
There should be another oring that goes around the outside of the one you keep chopping. The little one fits inside the larger one. Like Tuna said, you put the larger one inside the valve, then the little one on the on/off, then push the on/off into the valve.
Hopefully someone has a good picture of one. This X-mag (http://www.airgundesignsusa.com/xmag/html/valve.html) diagram is the best I can find at the moment. Parts 15 and 16 (ignore the 'quad' business). There's a better x-valve diagram somewhere....
So in the picture below, there should be two o-rings visible? This only applies to THIS stock on/off and not the ULT on/off right?
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii191/om3n07/S1050030.jpg
Spider-TW
04-27-2009, 10:43 AM
So in the picture below, there should be two o-rings visible? This only applies to THIS stock on/off and not the ULT on/off right?
Right, one goes inside the other in an x-valve with a standard on/off. The larger one often stays stuck inside the valve until you pick it out, but when it is all assembled, the little one fits inside the larger one.
Spider-TW
04-27-2009, 10:45 AM
Here's the pic (http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=194223) I was looking for.
Tunaman
04-27-2009, 11:38 AM
So in the picture below, there should be two o-rings visible? This only applies to THIS stock on/off and not the ULT on/off right?
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii191/om3n07/S1050030.jpgCorrect. The ULT does not use the larger oring down in the valve. The ULT has one on it already.
rawbutter
04-27-2009, 12:18 PM
Here's the good exploded x-valve diagram.
http://img131.imageshack.us/img131/5427/xvalveexplodedff7.gif
Like tuna said, I think you're missing part #23. Without that larger o-ring, the smaller o-ring is going to shift around at the end of the on/off. Eventually, it will slide in front of the pin and get chopped in half.
:confused:
could someone post a picture of their stock on/off and x-valve assembled correctly please?
EDIT
ok am I doing this right? *crosses fingers*
That larger o-ring fits nicely over the on/off o-ring, and it fits nicely in the x-valve. Is this right?
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii191/om3n07/S1050034.jpg
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii191/om3n07/S1050033.jpg
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii191/om3n07/S1050035-1.jpg
Well I put that o-ring in the valve, put a fresh o-ring (third one rrg) on the on/off, oiled everything and fired up, and it's working perfectly now :D
Thanks everyone for all the help really you guys are great :clap:
too bad I don't have any gas left in my 850 output tank to try to rt again... :cry:
maybe later this week when my halo comes I'll get some more air...
anyways thanks again guys! AO is a great place for help :cheers:
Spider-TW
04-27-2009, 03:55 PM
That's it.
Clean and oil those rings while you have them out. You can just push the large one to the bottom first or try to wiggle the whole thing in. Just using fingers, if an oring comes off, I've never been able to push the on/off all the way in. There is some squeeze on the pin/orings/valve fit (about 0.020 inches of diameter).
**ha. that's some post lag!**
Tunaman
04-27-2009, 08:30 PM
That's it.
Clean and oil those rings while you have them out. You can just push the large one to the bottom first or try to wiggle the whole thing in. Just using fingers, if an oring comes off, I've never been able to push the on/off all the way in. There is some squeeze on the pin/orings/valve fit (about 0.020 inches of diameter).
**ha. that's some post lag!**Do NOT "try to wiggle the whole thing in". ALWAYS put the larger oring down it the hole first. Works every time. ;)
Spider-TW
04-27-2009, 11:18 PM
Do NOT "try to wiggle the whole thing in". ALWAYS put the larger oring down it the hole first. Works every time. ;)
Well, I did say "try"... :(
om3n, if you haven't noticed yet, you really should obey the Tunaman.
Well, I did say "try"... :(
om3n, if you haven't noticed yet, you really should obey the Tunaman.
ha ha well that seems like some solid advice :)
Thanks for the help everyone!!! I gotta say, I love my mag, I can't wait to try new things with it; soon I'll try going pneu :ninja:
Also I gotta say I don't think any other gun/brand has a knowledge base as good as this one for support or information. You guys are awesome ;) Seems like mostly knowledgeable adults and not obnoxious kids... one more reason I'm really liking mags. it seems most annoying kids have no idea what they even are, and it's gonna be great to see them get owned by my mag this season : :p
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