Need help from AO auto mechanics

[Steelrat]

Hey guys,

A friend just recently bought a 99 Chevy Prism (read: Toyota Corolla) with a bit over 100,000 miles on it. Almost immediately, she noticed horrible oil consumption, like 1 quart every tank of gas, or worse. She used 10w30 at first, then went to 5w30, since thats what was on the oil cap, and her oil consumption got dramatically worse, to the point where it just about ran dry once. There is no smoke coming out of the back, and no oil on the engine or on the ground.

When she told me about it, I looked for information online. It seems the 1.8 liter engines in the corollas and prisms have bad ring problems. I would think that the fact that there is no oil on the ground means the oil is getting past the rings and burning, and the cat is catching all the fumes, hence no smoke out the back.

Now, if it is the rings, what can we do about it? I told her to switch to a heavier oil, like 10w40, will that help slow it down? Is there an additive we can put in to help slow down the oil leakage? Worst case, is replacing the rings something that I can do? I'm no auto mechanic, but I have some mechanical aptitude. Taking it to a shop would cost as much as the car did, and replacing the engine might not work, possibly ending up with an engine with the same issues.

Suggestions?

[MANN]

sell it, and get something else.

sorry, but sometimes that is the best .02

edit: you could more than likely slip it by most car dealerships too. just fill it up before going in. Id say that it would be bad karma, but I have seen too many car dealers do it to others.

[Tunaman]

Does it smoke when it first starts up? If so, then the valve seals/giudes could be worn. If not, if you are considering keeping the car then consider having the engine rebuilt. Might be your cheapest route.

[Steelrat]

She spent under $2k on the car, and really can't afford anything at a dealership. I guess the options are:

-Sink money into fixing it at a shop
-Try and fix it ourselves
-Sell it privately and buy something even cheaper

[Steelrat]

Does it smoke when it first starts up? If so, then the valve seals/giudes could be worn. If not, if you are considering keeping the car then consider having the engine rebuilt. Might be your cheapest route.

No, no smoke at startup. The 1.8 toyota engine used in her car seems to have a lot of problems with the rings, which is why I was leaning that way.

[behemoth]

I'd have to guess your right.

However, i'm wondering why anyone would pay 2k for a prism with 100k

Jus' sayin'

[MANN]

-Sell it privately and buy something even cheaper

this is your best bet.

If I were to keep the car I would buy an stp additive that is suposto help with ring wear. Be careful of additives. Some can really screw your stuff up. (that goes for engine, transmission, etc). then use a thicker oil espically during the summer months. 10-40 or maybe one higher. You could probally get away with using non name brand oil because you are going to burn through it so often (that might make it bearable to buy 1-2 qt a week)

Honestly fixing it is probably not worth it.

[skife]

you have to take the whole engine out and then apart to get to the rings, if your confident and have the tools to do it, there are manuals to help you with it.

its no easy thing to do.

your looking at about $1000-1200 for a motor from the junk yard (car-part.com)

I'd be leary of all engine additaves, if the rings are bad then the damage is done, i don't belive there is much you can do to fix them now.

my advice is get rid of the car if you don't want to deal with putting that much oil in it every week.

[Lohman446]

Until it gets cold out run 20W50 oil :)

And just for kicks, replace the PCV valve (and make sure the tube going to it is not collapsed / cracked) - its cheap and stands a chance of helping.

[cdacda13]

Until it gets cold out run 20W50 oil :)

That will work, for a short time.

You could try engine restore. I might or might not work, but at like 5$, its a hellva lot cheaper than replacing the rings.

As for replacing the rings, you going to have to remove the valve train, then the cylinder head (along with that the exhaust manifold, which is a pain due to rusting), drop the oil pan (that's if it isn't totally blocked in by the crossmember), then remove the crank shaft, then hammer the connecting rods and pistons out(Make sure you don't scar the cylinder walls). Then, replace the rings (remember to stagger the opening). Then a use a ring compressor and hammer the connecting rods and pistons back in. Reinstall everything with new gaskets.
This is all assuming that the cylinder walls are in good shape and don't need to be honed or bored out.

Hope that helps.

[Lohman446]

That will work, for a short time.

You could try engine restore. I might or might not work, but at like 5$, its a hellva lot cheaper than replacing the rings.

As for replacing the rings, you going to have to remove the valve train, then the cylinder head (along with that the exhaust manifold, which is a pain due to rusting), drop the oil pan (that's if it isn't totally blocked in by the crossmember), then remove the crank shaft, then hammer the connecting rods and pistons out(Make sure you don't scar the cylinder walls). Then, replace the rings (remember to stagger the opening). Then a use a ring compressor and hammer the connecting rods and pistons back in. Reinstall everything with new gaskets.
This is all assuming that the cylinder walls are in good shape and don't need to be honed or bored out.

Hope that helps.

I staved off valve seal replacement in an Explorer for over 100K miles (to a total of 230K) by using 20W50 - probably would have gone a lot longer had my buddy who bought it from me not crashed it.

I still say to check the PCV system though. It can cause the same type of dramatic oil useage.

[punkncat]

I seriously doubt that the cat would absorb all that oil usage if it was making it to the exhaust. Using that much it would be smoking like hell. I would suggest that you check for an external leak like a front or rear main seal, and check the water to see if the oil is there. A quart a tank is extreme, and should be showing somewhere.

With the car cold, go out and have someone crank it with your hand right behind the tailpipe and see if you hand gets wet or oily. A bit of condensation will be normal with the car cold, but you should be able to smell coolant if its coming through the head. Small grey droplets indicate oil mixed with water. The inside of the tailpipe itself might even be oily if its going past the rings.

[littlered169]

I would also say check the PCV system. If all is ok there, these engines have had ring and valve stem seal issues. If either of the last two is the case, car is probably not worth fixing.

[Lohman446]

Intake gaskets can also suck in oil and cause oil usage concerns :P. With the engine running spray carb clean in the area of the intake gaskets, if idle increases you have a vacuum leak.

[Spider-TW]

Heavier oil does work. You loose some gas mileage and there may be a spot in the engine that needs the lighter oil still and may suffer some. I use restore and castrol high mileage in my 230k+ V8. It makes a strange consumption curve. Almost no oil consumed for the first 2500 miles, a little at 3000, and if I let it go beyond that it goes pretty fast. It's a very pronounced life span. As long as I'm religious about the change, it does well.

[skife]

As for replacing the rings, you going to have to remove the valve train, then the cylinder head (along with that the exhaust manifold, which is a pain due to rusting), drop the oil pan (that's if it isn't totally blocked in by the crossmember), then remove the crank shaft, then hammer the connecting rods and pistons out(Make sure you don't scar the cylinder walls). Then, replace the rings (remember to stagger the opening). Then a use a ring compressor and hammer the connecting rods and pistons back in. Reinstall everything with new gaskets.
This is all assuming that the cylinder walls are in good shape and don't need to be honed or bored out.

Hope that helps.


i would really like to see someone do rings with the block still in the car.

[Lohman446]

i would really like to see someone do rings with the block still in the car.

:P What kind of car? +

[Steelrat]

I'm actually going to do a compression test, and hope its the valve seals. Even with restore and 10w40, it's still burining plenty of oil :( From what I've read, compression tests are not hard to do, I just need to figure out how to disable the injectors.

[punkncat]

I'm actually going to do a compression test, and hope its the valve seals. Even with restore and 10w40, it's still burining plenty of oil :( From what I've read, compression tests are not hard to do, I just need to figure out how to disable the injectors.


Each of the injectors have a plug on them. You should also have something along the lines of an ECM fuse or relay, as well as a fuel pump relay that could be pulled to stop fuel delivery.

[skife]

:P What kind of car? +

a FWD car.

okay, its do-able, but not easy.

i've seen main bearings done without taking the engine out.

[Lohman446]

a FWD car.

okay, its do-able, but not easy.

i've seen main bearings done without taking the engine out.


:) Its far easier with side by side hoists. I'd hate to think of trying it on even a single, or worse yet on the ground

[BigEvil]

Until it gets cold out run 20W50 oil :)

And just for kicks, replace the PCV valve (and make sure the tube going to it is not collapsed / cracked) - its cheap and stands a chance of helping.


^^^
Do what Lohman says. Also, if you can find 20w50 in Catrol Syntech, GET IT. I have seen that stuff do WONDERS in 4 cyl cars with bad rings and valve seals. If you can get Slick50, put a quart of that stuff in to. I used to use that once or twice a year on all of my cars.