Old Classic mag and valve advice please

[Old Baller]

Ok this is my first post on here and I hope you all may be able to offer some good advice. I will first flat out say I am not an expert on automags and I have kinda been out of the scene for a half dozen years so the little I knew has become less

My problem -My valve is shot(classic). I think it needs a rebuild atleast but I also think the power tube threading may be shot as the tip will not thread properly. I dunno if this is omething that can be fixed.

I have an old 68 automag with classic valve nice splash ano on the entire gun, front grip, drop down, and regulator. The regulator however is a reverse thread as is my tank. So if I swap out the classic valve for an x valve I am not supposed to use a regulator right? If this is the case I not only have to get rid of the regulator I will also have to get a new tank right? As once the reg is removed I will not be able to get a bottom bottle holder in a reverse thread right?

SO my questions

Can I run a regulator on an x valve?

if not

Can I get a reverse thread bottom bottle holder?

and/or

If I sent the classic valve to AGD would they be able to fix it and would it be worth it?

If anyone has any suggestions or questions, or answers ect

[Barsse]

Hope I can answer some questions right:

You CAN run a regulator on X-valve, but it will not do really much good, perhaps only starve the valve and weaken your performance if anything.

BUT, if you want to use a regulator becuase you're running CO2 - FORGET it. X-valve is HPA only. While some claim you can do it if you can keep the liquid 100% out, it's not worth risking it, just invest in HPA, you'll be better off anyway.

And I don't think AGD services classic valves anymore. The community here will help you though, free of charge, if you tell us what the problem is. It will most likely be that you need to replace an o-ring, that's it. :)

[Old Baller]

Yes it is HPA its a really decent tank which is parta the reason I don't wanna have to replace it simply because of the reverse thread thing.

I hope that if they won't service it they will still have all the repair parts and o rings and stuff as after this many years I figure quite a few are gonna need replacing and basically all I have left is the gun my parts box seems to have gone AWOL

[secretweaponevan]

Barsse nailed it.

How old is your tank? They need to be re-hydro'd at least every 5 years, 3 years for older ones. Max life on tanks is 15 years before they are deemed "unsafe" to re-hydro.

Is the damage with the powertube to the tip or to the powertube itself? The tip is soft brass while the powertube itself is stainless steel, so I would hope that the problem is with the tip which you can get here: http://store.airgundesignsusa.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=catalog.prodInfo&productID=27&categoryID=18

...Or perhaps for cheap/free from someone who has upgraded to a Level 10 bolt kit.

I'm pretty sure that AGD will service your valve, but we can get her running just fine with advice from here.

Also, you should watch the Automag Manual video on youtube (all 9 parts). You will become an expert, fast.

Welcome back!

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[Old Baller]

The Tank was last tested in 2003 so yes I will have to get it tested I suppose. I am gonna take the gun apart and see what I can find about the tip. I know something is wrong in there but its been a few years since I had this gun apart. Thanks for the vids I will watch em all. If this valve is ok I may purchase a level 10 this season and run it on the classic and look at picking up an x valve over the winter. Thanks for the advice so far and I will put on my findings here after I pull this apart.

[Barsse]

I noticed that when a valve has been on the shelf for too long, one of the most common things to happen is that on/off ring pretty much dissolves and crumbles if you touch it. Also, lube the rear black spring-like thingy inside the regulator, I generally use Dow33.

Let's get you all fixed up and back on the field! :clap:

[Old Baller]

Ok so I broke the valve down a bit and I have concluded that the major problem is most likely just in the power tube tip. The threads are shot on it but they don't appear to be shot on the power tube itself. So I checked the online store and was thinking that if I have to order stuff anyways I might as well just order a level 10 as that would come with a new power tube tip assembly however I did notice that they have a disclaimer that it will not work on field rental automags. As this gun is so old and I bought it second hand I have no way of knowing if this is a former field rental valve. I am going to asume its not but is there any way I can tell for sure?

[secretweaponevan]

Ok so I broke the valve down a bit and I have concluded that the major problem is most likely just in the power tube tip. The threads are shot on it but they don't appear to be shot on the power tube itself. So I checked the online store and was thinking that if I have to order stuff anyways I might as well just order a level 10 as that would come with a new power tube tip assembly however I did notice that they have a disclaimer that it will not work on field rental automags. As this gun is so old and I bought it second hand I have no way of knowing if this is a former field rental valve. I am going to asume its not but is there any way I can tell for sure?

If it laser-engraved "FIELD RENTAL" on the valve, it is. If not, it isn't.

Also, I've always used white lithium grease on my spring pack and regulator adjusting nut.

[Old Baller]

Really appreciate all the help guys thanks

Ok so it is not an old field rental thats good. I think I can make this valve work with the new power tube tip so I am gonna get the level 10 and a few sets of o rings ect.

However I have now noticed that I apparently do not appear to have a safety anymore. There is one hole on the left hand side of the gun very close to the trigger pin hole which is where I believe it was.... strangly enough the hole does not go through to the otherside. I am not quite sure how I can go about fixing this. I did look on the agd site to see if they listed safety mechanisms but I didn't see them. I searched around on the forum and looked at pics but I am not sure what to do. Any suggestions?

[secretweaponevan]

Here ya go. Click to get to the product.

http://store.airgundesignsusa.com/images/product/374.jpg (http://store.airgundesignsusa.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=catalog.prodInfo&productID=374&categoryID=16)

I don't know about the hole that doesn't go all the way through though. :confused:

[Adam45]

Here ya go. Click to get to the product.

http://store.airgundesignsusa.com/images/product/374.jpg (http://store.airgundesignsusa.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=catalog.prodInfo&productID=374&categoryID=16)

I don't know about the hole that doesn't go all the way through though. :confused:


If the hole doesnt go all the way through it may be a second party frame. The Kapp groovy frame has a safety only on one side. I think the Dye frame also has a one sided safety.

Can you post a picture ? it may help.

[Old Baller]

I will pick up my cam at work today and throw a pic on tonight

[Frizzle Fry]

Can I run a regulator on an x valve?


If you have an X-valve (or any AGD valve), you're already running a regulator :cool:

The entire valve back is a reg, much like an AGD Flatline tank reg. People say that Automags are "hogs" that "like high pressure" but in truth it's not so much that they're a high pressure marker, more that they're a marker with a reg built in so they don't require an additional regulator like so many markers on the market... You will, more likely than not, "starve" the valve if you run a vertical regulator on you X-valve purely because it will drastically decrease the input pressure to the built-in automag reg.

That said, you'll be running HPA so looking in to the right TANK regulator is important... The more consistent the output, and the higher the output pressure, the better speed and performance you will get out of your Automag.

[Bagheera]

If you have an X-valve (or any AGD valve), you're already running a regulator :cool:

The entire valve back is a reg, much like an AGD Flatline tank reg. People say that Automags are "hogs" that "like high pressure" but in truth it's not so much that they're a high pressure marker, more that they're a marker with a reg built in so they don't require an additional regulator like so many markers on the market... You will, more likely than not, "starve" the valve if you run a vertical regulator on you X-valve purely because it will drastically decrease the input pressure to the built-in automag reg.


Ain't this the truth. As I was setting up my custom 'Mag still running on Co2, I found that a Palmer's Stabilizer, while a beautiful piece of machinery, was starving the valve, whereas when I finally replaced it with a plain 'ol expansion chamber (nuthin' fancy), it performed beautifully. So, take it from my own experience, you don't need an additional regulator.

[Wanta B Sniper]

But if it worked fine with the reg before, then it should still work fine with the reg now. So unless you notice horrible shoot down then I wouldn't worry about it.

[Old Baller]

But if it worked fine with the reg before, then it should still work fine with the reg now. So unless you notice horrible shoot down then I wouldn't worry about it.


Yes and provided I stay with the classic valve I am not concerned.... however I am thinking about upgrading to the x valve...... but that might be next year

[Old Baller]

OK hope this works, this is my mag.

Hopefully someone can recognize this grip frame.


http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o120/lonefishercanmore/Mag3.jpg

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o120/lonefishercanmore/mag4.jpg

[BigTrucker]

UM....... Just buy an Xvalve and drop it in and i think you will LOVE it. It comes with a level 10 bolt already, you just may need to adjust and fine tune it. i think it would look real sexy on that mag

[Old Baller]

UM....... Just buy an Xvalve and drop it in and i think you will LOVE it. It comes with a level 10 bolt already, you just may need to adjust and fine tune it. i think it would look real sexy on that mag



Yeah it would look sick eh? specially with a black ULE body...... if I can find a x valve for a decent price I will buy it..... but a brand new ones just a bit more then I wanna spend right now.

[secretweaponevan]

Looks like a Benchmark frame.

[Coralis]

That looks like a benchmark frame , btw nice looking mag and a armson 8" barrel.

[Old Baller]

Thanks I really love this gun and I want to get her purring again.
So the benchmark frames also have a safety that is only on one side? if this is a benchmark frame any suggestions on where to look for a safety mechanism?

Note I checked the proteam site and they do have the grip frames but I could not spot the safety mech on there I left a message hopefully I will get an answer tommorrow

[tasker89]

That looks like a benchmark frame , btw nice looking mag and a armson 8" barrel.

I agree. Looks like a Benchmark single trigger frame that was chopped. The two finger trigger might be Smart Parts...though I don't recall SP producing an anno pattern like that.

[DevilMan]

If you change the body, you'll have to lose the barrel as well. If you go ULE... the ULE is cocker threaded.

The frame looks like a benchy that as others have said is missing the pull out, push in safety from the left side... and well has the obvious hack job on the trigger guard...

The drop and tank issue is a real loss.... as you say the stuff is reverse threaded... only thing you could do is drop the tank but keep the fittings and put it on a new/better tank. That way you keep the setup matched up and the same.

The anno looks like the KAPP Lava anno to me... but I've never seen a mag with that color... so a rare one I'd say.

DM

[DevilMan]

Sent you a PM... for a safety contact TRACY @ PTP who is a member on here.... just gotta look around....

Also the reg on the bottom IS needed. Though the valve can handle the PSI of the tank I wouldn't care to run 3K straight through the braided lines, gas thru, and QD.....

Today's tanks have regs on them. Your setup does not. I would NOT take that reg off.

Check the PM and get back to me...

DM

[Old Baller]

Devilman thanks for the PM I have sent one back I shoulda read your posts here first but no biggie.

That is a lava splash anno probably by Kapp but I'm not positive.

Hopefully I can get the safety mechanism from benchmark.

If not would one be removable from another benchmark grip cause that'll be my second option.

[Old Baller]

OK finally managed to get some parts up to me here in Canada :clap:
First off I wanna thank Devilman for the great advice he gave me through PM's and all the other advice you guys have given me here.

I purchased the level 10 and had her shipped up tossed it in and did the setup, I swapped out the regulator piston for a new one as from reading on here I realized that my old one wouldn't have cut it. I managed to get it shooting but still had some issues. In my kit I only recieved 4 carriers not 5 and they appear to be only 2 sizes and 2 of each size.... one size has no grooves at all (unless you count the o ring groove) and the other size has one groove.... is this right or am I missing something on the sizing..... the setup seemed to suggest starting with a 2 groove carrier which I didn't get. I think I am past the oring/carrier leak but neither 2 shims or 3 shims seems to vent it properly and I can say for sure that I would not be finger testing the level 10 as the squeegee test was rather violent and it had no problem breaking balls

As to the springs I got one that looks like my old spring and 2 big ones one of the big ones is red and the other is grey.... in the setup instructions they say one of these springs should be slightly smaller but they both look the same size and neither appears to have had a coil cut off. IS this right or should I start cutting one? The best performance I had was with the large grey one (I never tried the red as it looked the same) however I did get bolt stick.

Performance wise I could not chrono it so that makes the setup more difficult. However even after swapping regulator pistons I am still leaking out the back.... its not fierce but it starts as soon as I get the velocity adjustment screw in far enough for the valve to kick in (goes whuut and the trigger starts functioning) For this I am gonna try swapping the seal (that hockey puck looking o ring thing) The old one looks fine and fits in good but thats all I can think of

Also I am getting some strange leaking out the side so I believe its one of the on/off assembly o rings so I am gonna swap them out.

Does it sound like I am taking the correct steps? Any input is appreciated. With any luck I will get rained outta work here this morning and will be home tinkering by lunch time ;)

[Old Baller]

I would like to maybe do something with my body (insert joke here) The silver is ok but I think a black would be way cooler. Its a powerfeed left body......

I guess the body is made of steel so does that rule out anodizing?

I found a couple posts that mention duracoat paint can anyone tell me more about it?

I remember seeing the odd gun with powder coating but was never all that impressed with the results. Is it something to consider or does it always just look bad?

What would you do if it was your marker?

[secretweaponevan]

You will have to duracoat or powdercoat it, stainless does not anodize. You can't do the bottom of the body though, it messes up the tolerances between body and rail.

[Konigballer]

my vote is for keeping it basically like it is, but change out the REALLY old MaxFlo reg for the 'newer' Manifold4500 type that can easily be found still. That thing is pure old school goodness!

[OPBN]

I think he body would look great if you polished it. Especially if you have committed to keeping the Classic valve. It's a lot of elbow grease, but worth it. There are also various members on here that will do the work for you. I know Lukes Customs as well as LK-13 both do polishing.

[Old Baller]

Yeah if the only options are powdercoating and paint I will leave it.... However the polishing idea is a great one and I am gonna look into that.

Do you figure it would be worth it to take off the really old Maxflo? If I do this I am pretty sure I will have to replace both tank and maxflo as they are both reverse threaded to work together.... Also I like the way the ano is on the max flo as well is it possible to swap the anno'd parts onto a newer manifold system? Also I'll note the maxflo seems to work great and I have always been a little of the opinion that if it ain't broke don't fix it.

But that said I did get her out to the field the other day and tuned her in real nice. Level 10 seems to be working (still not putting my finger in there yet) However in a long string I was getting a bit of shoot down. Over the chrono I would start at 280-85 and the odd ball in the burst would drop down to 270 ish..... I have not however adjusted the maxflo at all yet and I have it set at 800 so maybe I can up that a bit.

Thanks guys keep it coming things are starting to really come back to me now