Front wheel bearing(s)? Halp!

[neppo1345]

Okay, so I've recently noticed a high pitched intermittent squeaking coming from my front passenger side wheel. Vehicle is 2007 Saturn, Ion Sedan, 2.2L, ~47k on the clock.

Squeaking pulsates (varies with speed) and does not change when I apply my brakes. I do not feel/hear any grinding.

The (bit of) experience I have with cars tells me that it's the wheel bearing.

I would like to replace it, I'm competent with tools/cars/big things that fly and don't think I will have a problem.

However, some questions for the legit mechanics and shade tree's alike:

1. Do you agree with my wheel bearing diagnosis?

2. Is it recommended to change out both bearings at the same time, or is this something that you replace as it goes?

3. From what I understand, modern FWD cars have sealed bearings that cannot be rebuilt...Is this true? If not, do they sell bearing rebuild kits, or am I hosed buying a new $120.00+ front hub?

4. Can I do the job with a jack and a set of tools? Will I need any specialized tools?

5. Is it alright to drive it as is?

This is what I would like to avoid (courtesy of Jalopnik)
http://jalopnik.com/assets/images/gallery/12/2008/12/medium_3072974537_b74370ec80_o.jpg

[vf-xx]

Might check your CV Joints. I do believe those are prone to failing before wheel bearings.

Easy check. Crawl under the car an shake the center of the driveshaft on each side. if it wiggles up/down or front to back, you have a failed ball joint. Other pointers are to check the boot just behind the wheel, if it's cut, cracked, etc then that's another good sign.

Good news, if it is the CV joint, you'll have to replace the driveshaft, but you can usually find those rebuilt for a reasonable price.

[Lohman446]

Crawl under the vehicle and bend the backing plate off the brake rotor - it is highly unlikely that a wheel bearing is going to cause a squeeking noise. It may also be a brake wear indicator bent and causing it.


Front wheel bearings are simple with standard tools on modern vehicles as most are a sealed hub unit. With ABS yours is a number 513204 in BCA and runs about $160 - buy a good one (BCA or Timken) as the cheap ones are prone to early failure.

There is no current recommendation to do both at once.

A wheel bearing has to be severely bad before it can cause issues driving.

[MoeMag]

I would bet money on the brakes. I recently had a bent caliper guide pin (honestly no idea what happened) which caused all sorts of issues and noise.

[Madmarx]

Does the noise change when you go around a corner at slow speeds?
You should have a shop do it if it is the wheel bearing.
Bearing shouldn't be gone with that kind of miles tho.

edit:
You may want to look into the 5year/100K warranty on the drivetrain too


Drive Train Warranty: In some cases the drive train warranty continues after the basic warranty has expired. This part of the warranty covers most of the parts that make the vehicle move, including the engine, transmission, drive axles and driveshaft. Like the basic warranty, consumable parts such as hoses and belts are not covered. However, most of the internal parts of the engine, such as the pistons and bearings, which are also subject to wear and tear, are covered by the drive train warranty.

[neppo1345]

At this point I do plan on taking it into a dealership to see if it's something covered by the warranty.

Will check the CV joints & rotor backing plates tomorrow after class (however I don't remember seeing rotor backing plates when I did my brakes).

Pretty sure it's not the brakes seeing as I changed out pads and rotors last week (rotors were slightly warped and it bothered me). This was after the noise had started so it was not anything I did, however I could (however unlikely) have missed some bent/broken brake hardware.

Will inform what (if anything) I find tomorrow. Then it's off to the dealership.

[behemoth]

Tim, when my wheel bearing went, i let it go until it felt like the wheel was going to fall off.

I get it off, and there were 3 (yes three) balls left in the hub.


I think a bit of squeeling, you're fine.

[oneworld]

My sister has an 07 ION as well. She had this exact same problem about 6 months ago. unfortunately I don't remember the diagnosis. I will check tomorrow.

[neppo1345]

Tim, when my wheel bearing went, i let it go until it felt like the wheel was going to fall off.

I get it off, and there were 3 (yes three) balls left in the hub.


I think a bit of squeeling, you're fine.

But its ANNNNNOOOOOYYYYYIIIIIINNNNNNGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG.


My sister has an 07 ION as well. She had this exact same problem about 6 months ago. unfortunately I don't remember the diagnosis. I will check tomorrow.

Thanks, I'd appreciate that.

[flyingpootang]

If you just changed the brake pads did you turn/cut the rotors? Does the pulsation increase when the brakes get hot or at freeway speeds, does your steering shake with the pulsation? Sounds like your rotors are warped. If you drive slow and step on the brake slowly can you feel the pedal go up and down slowly? Also try to brake with your parking brake handle only. If you get a up and down movement in your park brake handle your rear rotors are warped. The squeaking noise may be due to using cheap pads. Try to lube the back of the pads with Lithium white grease. Also grease the slide pins with white grease also....

[neppo1345]

If you just changed the brake pads did you turn/cut the rotors? Does the pulsation increase when the brakes get hot or at freeway speeds, does your steering shake with the pulsation? Sounds like your rotors are warped. If you drive slow and step on the brake slowly can you feel the pedal go up and down slowly? Also try to brake with your parking brake handle only. If you get a up and down movement in your park brake handle your rear rotors are warped. The squeaking noise may be due to using cheap pads. Try to lube the back of the pads with Lithium white grease. Also grease the slide pins with white grease also....

My rotors were warped, well at least one was. That's why I did the brakes to begin with (the squeaking was present before and after the work). One rotor was salvageable, and the other was garbage (strangely the rotor from the problem side...so I bought a new set). Put on a new set of ceramic pads, and lubed the contact surfaces with the piston and the guides with 'brake grease'.

I'm quite confident that the problem does not involve the brakes.

<3

[behemoth]

you failed the brake job, n00b.

[Lohman446]

Some of the modern "economy" vehicles have clip on hubcaps, and that noise you are descrbing used to be a common occurance when hubcaps were on every vehicle. If you have them you might grease contact points


I would still lean towards a backing plate and away from a wheel bearing as most likely though.

[skife]

Might check your CV Joints. I do believe those are prone to failing before wheel bearings.

Easy check. Crawl under the car an shake the center of the driveshaft on each side. if it wiggles up/down or front to back, you have a failed ball joint. Other pointers are to check the boot just behind the wheel, if it's cut, cracked, etc then that's another good sign.

Good news, if it is the CV joint, you'll have to replace the driveshaft, but you can usually find those rebuilt for a reasonable price.


CV joints tick when they go bad.


balljoints won't make a squeak, they will wear the tire very unevenly.

[vf-xx]

CV joints tick when they go bad.


balljoints won't make a squeak, they will wear the tire very unevenly.

Oh, right. I forgot about that. It's been a while. Right about the tick.

I dissagree about the balljoints not squeaking. Had one fail on me a few years back. Squeaked everytime we turned or hit a bump.

Never did diagnose it right till it failed entirely on my wife driving home from work...

Still pissed at the shop that worked on that last, I'm still certian that they cut the ball joint's boot.. :mad: :mad: :mad:

[Lohman446]

Non-greasable ball joints will squeek, as stated its generally with movement of front suspension, but they will. So will greasable, but the problem is prevelant in the non-greasable ones. A "groan" though is the normal complaint related to them.

[punkncat]

If you lift the front end up, put the car in neutral, you should be able to spin the wheels. If you can shake the wheel and get play on the wheel itself and not the a frame then it will be bearings. You should also be able to tell by the way it spins.

Something else to consider may be a belt or pulley bearing. Is the speed increase with wheel speed, or engine speed?

You have low mileage to have a failed wheel bearing, however there are quite a few recent model GM cars that have had that very issue. GL

[neppo1345]

Okay, had a chance to pull off the wheel, caliper, and rotor and do a little poking around.

My vehicle does not have shields behind the rotors, so nothing was rubbing there...
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c348/neppo1345/Random/DSC_8294.jpg

However, upon further inspection I found that something was indeed rubbing on my rotors.
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c348/neppo1345/Random/DSC_8291.jpg

I examined the calipers, pads, hub, everything but could not find anything that was even close to rubbing on the back of the rotors. The grooves don't seem to even correspond to anything that could rub.

The only thing that I can think of is that some of the brake hardware (brass shims and clips) is being pushed into the rotor over time (after two or three stop and go's). I find this possible only because the squeal was not immediately present after reinstalling the wheel, it didn't start until several stops down the road.

I may see if I can get a set of the clips; swap them out to see if it stops.

Any other ideas?

+1 to Loh for being in the ballpark.

[Lohman446]

Is there a ridge of rust on that mounting surface (where the rotor meets the flange on the hub) that is causing the rotor to be slightly out of place? These will sometimes cause them to tip out of position to some degree and make contact with the pad sometimes. You would think that you would be able to see whatever was making contact with the rotor. I don't see it in the picture.

[punkncat]

On some pads there is a "cricket" that is designed to let you know when the pads are nearing runout. In many cases they will only line up one way, in a particular spot (outer or inner) w/o pushing the cricket forward into the pad. The line that you have tend to correspond to that location.

[behemoth]

you failed the brake job, n00b.

.

[neppo1345]

Some of the modern "economy" vehicles have clip on hubcaps, and that noise you are descrbing used to be a common occurance when hubcaps were on every vehicle. If you have them you might grease contact points


I would still lean towards a backing plate and away from a wheel bearing as most likely though.

Lohman wins.

Went to the dealership today, they said the the 'silencer ring' was broken off of the hubcap. I refused to pay 50.00 for a new hubcap so I am now rolling in g-mode with the stamped steelies. Thinking about just putting some new wheels on it, I feel it would look 'dope' with some blacked out seven spokes...

Might as well considering I'm going to need new tires soon anyway.

Thanks to everyone for the help, I really appreciate it.

[maniacmechanic]

'silencer ring' on a hubcap , now if that ain't a way to make cash what is ; oh this ; Why yes maam it is bad , we will probley have to replace the axle & bearings & we may find something else & that would be extra