Back after 7 years and the story of the incredible venting HPA tank

[DoubleDutch]

Hi all!

Today was my first day playing paintball after 7 years. I went to the local woodsball field, Paintball Adventures in the south of Denver. I had a good time, and played most games with my warped classic Mag. I got lots of compliments on how cool my setup was, but only the refs and a few old timers knew what a Mag was and even fewer knew about the Warp feed. I am glad to report that I still got it (the aim), and that I don't (the lungs).

My buddy used my backup gun, an F1 Illustrator, and at some point I pulled out my Razorback III pump. The guys filling the 7 oz tanks for those two guns were a bit leery of filling 20 year old tanks, but I guess the 2 inch rule still applied.

Now on to my HPA tank. I have a 114ci (I think) 4500psi that was born on 7/00. It is a Carlton tank with a 32 degrees reg, no model number that I could tell. I only paid $100 for it new at a local shop, so I am sure it is not a very fancy reg. Like a good boy I got it hydrotested, locally here in Denver, at a place that a lot of paintballers go to (only $15). It passed.

When I had it filled at the field, it was making some strange noises while getting filled, the guy filling it did not like it at all. Kinda sounded like a toilet whose water shutoff seal was about to go. He filled it, twice, to about 3800 psi.

When I was about done for the day, I proceeded to unscrew the tank and found it extremely hard to unscrew. I had noticed the same thing after some test firing right after I hydro'ed the tank. I really put my back into it and then PSSSSSHHHHHHTTTTT the thing started venting because I had actually unscrewed the reg from the tank. Mind you I was doing this with just my hands, one hand bracing grip/drop forward, and the other twisting the bottle. I guess the safety holes in the threads worked and kept my reg from becoming a bullet and the bottle from becoming a missile. I am just really glad no one got hurt and nothing got damaged.

So who messed up here? Was I supposed to be able to unscrew a bottle with about 3000 psi in it with just my hands? Did the hydrotester do something wrong? Why was the reg so hard to unscrew from my ASA? Once all the air had vented, I unscrewed the bottle, and then the reg was quite easy to unscrew from the ASA. I looked at the to-ASA threads and the very top ones seems a bit damaged, not sure if that is related. Was the reg just putting too much pressure into the ASA, and that is why it was hard to unscrew against the pressure?

Anyway, I will probably put the bottle itself up for sale, I think that there is nothing wrong with it, and it now has a 7/09 hydro date. There is not visible damage on the bottle. How much should I ask for it? What is the cheapest way of shipping such a bottle, and how much does it cost to ship?

I found that with the Warp, giant tank, and hefty classic mag valve and body, the thing just weights too much and I want to get a smaller tank as a start to lightening my setup. Also, even with the biggest drop forward I could find, the giant tank made it impossible to keep the marker tight.

[wetwrks]

Before trying to sell it I would look into what caused all of this. You may need/want it for evidence.

[fishmishin]

It sounds like you still had pressure left in the asa. Does the asa have a bleed off on the tank side of it?
If you don't have a asa with a bleed off on the tank side, like a CP, you will still have pressure on the threads of the tank. Smartparts asa's are famous for that. I have heard several people say they have had to send their reg off to be repaired because the threads were damaged from having pressure on them while unscrewing them from their asa. Anyway when you have that much pressure on the threads, and you reg isn't tight, or doesn't have loctite, there is a high chance of the reg unscrewing from the tank. At least you caught it before you or anyone else was injured. Consider changing out your asa to one that bleeds all of the pressure out from your gun. I favor the CP asa's, since CP makes pretty solid products, and they normally stand behind them really well. Also if your tank is empty, completely, unscrew the reg and apply some red loctite on the threads, and then screw the reg back on tightly. I suggest most of the time to let the loctite cure for 24 hours before filling the tank. That way you know it seals well.


Also this goes for everyone, Always check you regulator to make sure it is tight when it comes back from being hydro'ed It is not uncommon for the company doing the hydro to not use loctite on the threads when they pull the reg off. If you are uncomfortable with pulling the reg off yourself go to the local proshop and have them do it. I use red loctite on all of my tank threads, my personal ones, and my customers at the paintball store I work at. I may have a hard time getting it of down the road, but at least I don't have to worry about my tanks, or one of my customers tanks blowing around the field like a missile, and I haven't had a reg I couldn't get off of a tank yet when using my large strap wrench. If you don't have a strap wrench, consider picking a set up. Lowe's has em for like $16 a set.

While I'm on the subject, anyone who has or is planning on buying a Guerilla tank with a myth reg, make sure the reg is on tight, and has loctite on it before you air it up. I have seen too many of them come in my store that are loose from the factory, so check em just to be sure.
Sorry DoubleDutch for hijacking your thread, just trying to help keep everybody safe, and welcome back to the game. I am glad to see you come back with the mag a blazing, oh and get used to not many people knowing what a Automag is, lol. :cheers:

[DevilMan]

I wouldn't put the red loctite on it.... that stuff is supposed to be permanent and the only way to break it is to heat the parts... which in turn damages the bottle. Medium strength is what should be used.

And again... get either an ASA that bleed system pressure or shoot down the gun. If your ASA is just like a duckbill then upgrade.

Otherwise the tank output pressure is trying to push the bottle off of the ASA with as much PSI as the reg is outputting. That pressure needs to be bled off before you unscrew the tank. Also always pay attention to what is actually turning when you are unscrewing a bottle.

DM

[Ando]

Also always pay attention to what is actually turning when you are unscrewing a bottle.

DM
QFT...

Back in the day when i played in Germany...Some nuckehead at one of the local PB watering holes popped the reg off his tank while under pressure. The tank shot off and hit the quarter panel of a BMW. No one got hurt but the feelings of the guy who owned the car and a few ear drums.

Those things are like rockets so be careful.

[DoubleDutch]

Ok there definitely was pressure still in the ASA when I was unscrewing it. It is the old style with no pressure relieve, and I wasn't shooting down while unscrewing because the field does not allow dry firing in the parking lot. Next time I guess I will walk over to the chrony area.

So I am guessing the reg is useless now, but how much could I get for the bottle? I guess I could also try to trade it for a smaller bottle and get a new reg.

[DevilMan]

Ok there definitely was pressure still in the ASA when I was unscrewing it. It is the old style with no pressure relieve, and I wasn't shooting down while unscrewing because the field does not allow dry firing in the parking lot. Next time I guess I will walk over to the chrony area.

So I am guessing the reg is useless now, but how much could I get for the bottle? I guess I could also try to trade it for a smaller bottle and get a new reg.


Why would the reg be useless??? And yeah if they don't want you shooting in the parking lot, then just go over to the field or chrono area and let it off there... Or if you know you'll be pulling it, just do it before you leave the field. Tis easiest.

And that venting did exactly what it's supposed to do. Allowed the air to bleed off while the threads still held it all in place. One of the better ideas to be implemented in the evolution of the sport if you ask me.

Easiest fix... Get a purging on/off/asa.. Then you won't have to worry about it.

DM

[DoubleDutch]

Why would the reg be useless??? And yeah if they don't want you shooting in the parking lot, then just go over to the field or chrono area and let it off there... Or if you know you'll be pulling it, just do it before you leave the field. Tis easiest.

And that venting did exactly what it's supposed to do. Allowed the air to bleed off while the threads still held it all in place. One of the better ideas to be implemented in the evolution of the sport if you ask me.

Easiest fix... Get a purging on/off/asa.. Then you won't have to worry about it.

DM

Well the reg-to-ASA threads are a bit stripped, the first turn-and-a-half or so. Also, I suspect that the reg was letting through a lot more pressure than it was supposed to, as it felt a lot harder to unscrew than it had before, with the same bottle and gun, than it used to 7 years ago.

[DevilMan]

Well the reg-to-ASA threads are a bit stripped, the first turn-and-a-half or so. Also, I suspect that the reg was letting through a lot more pressure than it was supposed to, as it felt a lot harder to unscrew than it had before, with the same bottle and gun, than it used to 7 years ago.


Depending on the brand you can get rebuild kits and replacement bonnets. But you can also score a new/used reg for 30-50 bucks...

Oh and as long as it's on a Mag it's not really that big of a deal.... hmmmm unless it's outputting over the 3K mark... then you may want to worry me thinks maybe, but if that were the case the 1.8K burst disk should pop first. So that would take care of that issue.

With a proper on/off you won't have an issue screwing it in or out as there won't be any pressure. No matter your set up your call... just sayin...

DM

[DoubleDutch]

Hey thanks for all the good info, I learned a lot. I have been thinking about trying a lighter setup anyway so maybe I will go all the way and get a 45/4500 Ninja instead. Or, I might go with a setup I saw here once, with a vertical 3.5 oz CO2 and a Q-Loader below the grip. Looks nice and light.

[Ando]

Dutch...It's normal for the tank to be hard when unscrewing while under pressure. I don't think there's any problem with your reg besides it coming out of your tank. The noise is normal when filling and about your reg unscrewing? Locktite it and you'll be good.

To be on the safe side, ck the output pressure. If you have a remote line, you can install a pressure gauge onto the part that screws onto the bottle. Turn the thumb screw and see what its outputting. Not sure what your reg is suppose to be pushing but that's easy enough to find out.

[athomas]

The ASA threads could be tight or damaged. If damaged, use something that can help straighten the bent edge or file it off. Put a bit of grease (Paintball type) on them when putting the bottle on next time. Don't locktite the bottle reg onto the bottle. Just screw it on by hand and then give it a bit of torque (by hand or strap wrench).

[minimag03]

I didn't know they ever made 114ci/4500 tanks. I have only seen them in 3000. Are you sure it wasn't a 3000 psi reg and 4500 psi tank? It has been years since you last used the stuff...

[DoubleDutch]

Actually, I am not sure about the size. It's a big ol' tank and I faintly remember 100-something. Maybe you guys can tell me, I am attaching a pic, I tried looking it up but couldn't figure out what it was.

On the regulator, it came on the tank, so I hope it is rated for 4500psi. The last guy to fill it did comment that it has a 4500 psi burst disk, which is not done on a 4500 psi tank right? I might bust if filled to capacity?

<a href="http://home.comcast.net/~yuk/popo/DSC_5329s.JPG"><img src="http://home.comcast.net/~yuk/popo/DSC_5329s.JPG" width="600" height="450"></img></a>

EDIT: Looked up the part number on Carleton's website, it is a 88ci tank.

[thegrayghost]

i put a white line of "whiteout" across the reg and tank.....when unscrewing the tank you can see if everything is all right and not unscrewing the tank from the reg...thegrayghost...

[Ando]

Actually, I am not sure about the size. It's a big ol' tank and I faintly remember 100-something. Maybe you guys can tell me, I am attaching a pic, I tried looking it up but couldn't figure out what it was.

On the regulator, it came on the tank, so I hope it is rated for 4500psi. The last guy to fill it did comment that it has a 4500 psi burst disk, which is not done on a 4500 psi tank right? I might bust if filled to capacity?


If i remember correctly, by law DOT i think, all 4500 tanks have a 7500 psi burst disks in the fill nipple side (HP or Tank side) and 1700 psi disks are put into the output/gun side of the reg to protect the gun and owner. Could depend on the manufacture but I'm sure it's a law of some sort. With low pressure regulators I think a lower output/gun side psi burst disk is installed but the same 7500 for the tank side.

For a 3000 psi reg they have a 5 or 6000 psi tank burst disk and the same 1700 disk for the output/gun side..Might be 1800 for the output, I can't remember. :tard:

Edit: I live in the same town those tanks are made. :D

Edit#2: And it's not a 3yr hydro for those tanks anymore. If your last hydro was after 07/2001 it's good for 5yrs.

[tribalman]

most of the threads on here recommend not using a thread locker unless the manufacturer recommends it. there have been quite a few threads about this over the years. as long as the tank and reg are torqued on correctly you shouldn't have an issue. and yes, it is possible to separate the tank from reg by hand as other have stated. just watch what you are doing. i always am watching what is actually unscrewing when i'm attempting to unscrew the tank from the asa. no need for projectiles other than paintballs to be flying around.

[AnthonyDStone]

SOME TANKS CANNOT HAVE ANY THREAD LOCKER ON THEM.If they are made of Certain Fibers and DON'T Have a Steel or aluminum Core.The Thread locker can Actually Deteriorate the Fiber Threads,Causing a Regulator to Pop Like a Cork.Of course these types of tanks Are Pretty Rare and Probably not too in use anymore,It's still a good piece of info!

For your Tank:Get a Cheap Reg and Sell the Whole thing For $100+.You'll get your money,Or maybe even trade it for a different,More usable size.

Tony

[DoubleDutch]

For your Tank:Get a Cheap Reg and Sell the Whole thing For $100+.You'll get your money,Or maybe even trade it for a different,More usable size.

Tony

Any recommendations on what reg to get? Best value price-performance-resale value?

EDIT: Another question: is it safe for me to swap tank regs myself? In my Googling of the subject, a lot of people recommend that a reg installation be done only by a qualified airsmith. Besides torqueing the reg to the tank to the correct specifications, what else would I need to do? Some kind of visual inspection? I have an automotive torque wrench, but looking at the WPG reg I am thinking about swapping, I only see one flat spot for a wrench. How am I supposed to grab the reg?