Tickler LPRs don't make low pressure pneu frames

[Spider-TW]

The title is the argument (if any). I just wanted to get it off my mind and it's something that I don't think has been clear in pneu-mag discussions.

A tickler works fine on a pneu with an RT on/off as long as you run the pressure higher than what the on/off really needs to fire. But I think an MPA-3 only needs about 40 to 50 psi to push an RT on/off (~5 lbs of force).

I always had to run mine at over 70 psi to keep it from sticking. The higher the setting, the less often it would fail to open on the first shot, sometimes more. After reading cyberave's opinion on ULTs, I tried one to lighten my trigger. I could get it working well, but it would not fire after I let it sit for about 15 minutes. I think this is part of Garf's problem with LPRs for the G-Force frame as well.

I replaced my tickler on my ep mag with a micro rock. I can now back the pressure down to just where the MPA-3 has enough force to trip the sear, give it a little more and leave it. I wanted the lower pressure to protect my little smc solenoid. My problem is fixed, but ticklers are sneaky about sticking at low pressure and I wonder how many pneu frames were abandoned because of erratic performance.

[flyingpootang]

I have 2 PneuMags that run ticklers, 1 that has a Micro Rock, and 1 I just completed with a Kapp Rhino reg. I don't have any creapage problem with either of the ticklers. I have a ULT in one (5 shims) and use a standard RT in the other .750 pin. Both operate with very little force being applied to the sear, have a very light trigger pull and are very walkable. Compared to my PneuMag with the Micro Rock I don't feel any differance in the trigger pull or preformance. I haven't tested the Kapp Rhino yet, but I don't think there will be any differance, since the pneumatics are small and don't require much air/pressure to run them...

[Spider-TW]

Interesting. I was thinking about trying to polish the inside of my tickler piston chamber. I've tried various orings and lubes in it, which changed the pressures it sticks at but not the whole problem.

Have you ever put a gauge on your tickler? I checked my tickler, but there was a problem with my used micro rock when I got it and it blew up my test gauge, which hasn't been replaced yet (lesson learned). From fully closed, my tickler would not even open until it went to about 18 psi, which seemed to match the sticking pressures I was getting. As long as it was cranked up to around 70 psi, I could use either on/off. It was aggravating to get it running flat out at around 40 psi or less, and have it lock up after sitting idle for 15 to 30 minutes.

For more data I would go bother the cocker guys, but I don't think they care about how it operates at those pressures.

[flyingpootang]

I never put a gauge to the Tickler, so I couldn't tell you when it opens. I never experienced a FSDO after sitting for 15 minutes. When I get some air I'll let sit for 30 minutes and see if I get any sticking. I use a annoed black and a chrome Tickler and the only problem I found in both where the input barb extended into the LPR chamber. I cured the problem by cutting down the barb. Do you have more than 1 PneuMag and do you have pics showing your MSV-2 and MPA-3?

[flyingpootang]

I think this topic would be best answered on BEO since Pratice Target and Cyber"Dave :p " have the most PneuMag experience....

[Spider-TW]

I converted my pneu to an ep with the little smc noid. That made the tickler problem more obvious. I usually just keep one of any given mag setup around until I can differentiate something to make me want another separate setup. :) I'm noticeably sloppy on a pneu trigger while moving, so I gave up on the mech pneu idea. All I have for a pneu now is my ep "SMAC" mag (http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=241157), which throws more paint than my RT setup. There is a MPA-3 pic in that thread near the bottom of the first post. With the micro rock, I haven't had any adjustment problems. With the tickler, I could get it working well, back it down and run it up to find the actuation pressure and then push it a little higher. If I let that sit for while, my first trigger pull (or more) would leave me hanging in the wind. The micro rock works no matter how long I let it set (after 6 hours I quit testing).

When I've let the tickler stick, I've had the grips off and I could see the MPA-3 not even trying to move when it had been working fine minutes before. You could also hear the tickler recharge for about half a second (longer than I expected) when I would bump the pressure adjustment up. With the MSV-2, you could hold down the trigger until it shot unless it was turned down to about 20 psi for the ULT. Then, it sometimes just wouldn't open up at all. With a noid, it can take a few "shots" to vent it down.

I may have just ended up with a tight bore tickler which wouldn't normally bother a cocker setup, or a regular RT on/off pneumag setup for that matter.

[flyingpootang]

Great write up, but I did notice you didn't have much of a gap between you MPA-3 and your sear leg. I always have at least a 1/8" gap between the sear leg and MPA-3 piston. I find it helps the MPA-3 build up enough pressure to actuate the sear without having to increase the pressure in the Tickler/LPR.

[Spider-TW]

1/8" would be a significant change alright. I had considered that a possible problem. It was being able to hear the tickler recharge after each shot that convinced me to try the micro rock. Also the sticking occurred sometime after a shot, but not on first pressure up when the MPA-3 had been sitting the longest. However, I will keep that in mind in case it ever sticks again, after I check the pressure and make sure it is low enough. Right now, my worn out tubing on the lpr barb is my lp pressure relief.

[flyingpootang]

I've been thinking about the recharge sound your Tickler makes. Is your piston stiff to move by hand? Have you tried a different o-ring? Also what condition is the inlet spring in? I'm sure you went over all of this, but maybe there is something your missing...

[flyingpootang]

I've got some excellent incite from the guys who wrote the book on Pneumaging here:
BEO Link (http://bigevilonline.com/showthread.php?p=32518&posted=1#post32518)