www.airgundesignsusa.com

[Nick28]

I personally think it's about time for a web site overhaul.

Earlier this year I purchased a RT ULE from AGD and honestly, it's not worth the $500 when compared to what else is on the market. I've got this baby rocking 15 bps at the moment~~ But if I hadn't owned a mag "back in the day" I would have never even bothered. I understand that it's a small business and they got to turn a profit. I just think AGD would benefit from a better web site.

There are still parts not pictured in the online store.

Video.

Maybe it's because of my background in video production and web sites and the fact that I'm not a good gun tech that this bothers me.

I feel really passionate about paintball and I have a soft spot in my heart for AGD. I want to see AGD grow and I would love to help.

The E-Mag was fun but it's big and heavy on a speed ball field.

Maybe, a good electronic frame and marketing and AGD could be back on top.

With Tom's recent comments about watching and waiting, I got a little excited.

Tournament paintball might be a joke at the moment. But I don't feel it has to be.

I have a lot of thoughts, feelings and ideas about the sport of paintball. AGD has a damn good gun. I just want to help take paintball to the next level.

[Chace]

I personally think it's about time for a web site overhaul.

Earlier this year I purchased a RT ULE from AGD and honestly, it's not worth the $500 when compared to what else is on the market. I've got this baby rocking 15 bps at the moment~~ But if I hadn't owned a mag "back in the day" I would have never even bothered. I understand that it's a small business and they got to turn a profit. I just think AGD would benefit from a better web site.

There are still parts not pictured in the online store.

Video.

Maybe it's because of my background in video production and web sites and the fact that I'm not a good gun tech that this bothers me.

I feel really passionate about paintball and I have a soft spot in my heart for AGD. I want to see AGD grow and I would love to help.

The E-Mag was fun but it's big and heavy on a speed ball field.

Maybe, a good electronic frame and marketing and AGD could be back on top.

With Tom's recent comments about watching and waiting, I got a little excited.

Tournament paintball might be a joke at the moment. But I don't feel it has to be.

I have a lot of thoughts, feelings and ideas about the sport of paintball. AGD has a damn good gun. I just want to help take paintball to the next level.
SP prevents them from making COMPLETE electropneumatic markers. SO why not make something like an Electro frame? Kinda similar to the Hyper frame?

[maniacmechanic]

I personally think it's about time for a web site overhaul.

Earlier this year I purchased a RT ULE from AGD and honestly, it's not worth the $500 when compared to what else is on the market. I've got this baby rocking 15 bps at the moment~~ But if I hadn't owned a mag "back in the day" I would have never even bothered. I understand that it's a small business and they got to turn a profit. I just think AGD would benefit from a better web site.


Probley should have started out a little differently :eek: :confused:

[BigEvil]

Probley should have started out a little differently :eek: :confused:

^

[Nick28]

I understand how you feel, but $500 is still $500. That's a weeks pay for me. 40 hours of busting my :cuss: , to pay for a gun. This may seem ridiculous but any gun sold in 2009 without a clamping feedneck and an on/off asa is... well.

Let me put it this way. I just bought a 09 Ford Focus. I shopped around for months. Compared to the Chevy Cobalt it was no contest. For $1000 less I got standard features like power locks, power windows. I test drove the :cuss: out of every car in me price range. I didn't want a Ford, but after driving one.

This past weekend I was at my local pro-shop, and handled a Planet Eclipse 2009 Ego SL94. Worth 1800? IDK. I get to pick up and fire a lot of guns. I've had my RT ULE for about 6 months and I'm about ready to do a video review. It takes a lot of of on field play to judge a marker.

[punkncat]

Actually Nick, if you take a moment to think about it. Right now you are sitting on a better INVESTMENT in paintball equipment than you could have gotten with almost any other paintball marker on the market costing two and a half times that much.

If you had spent the $1200 on an Ego or a DM, the moment you walked out of the store with it, you could not have turned them for 2-300$ less. Not even to mention what you could get for it a year or two down the line. Looked at how much a DM3 sells for right now? They were $1000 markers just a few years ago, and you can buy great looking upgraded ones for just over $100 any day of the week. The rest are on that same exact path.

You hold on to that Mag for a couple of years, keep it in good shape, and you will be able to sell it easily for a hundred and a quarter less than you payed, and that is IF you don't feel like parting it out, which generally can make you even more.

Mags may not be the fashion statement they once were, but quality is quality. AGD has not relied on marketing presence for a good number of years. What keeps them going is not only customer loyalty from discerning players, but from word of mouth. Marketing take a lot of overhead. So, that would have to be added on to the seemingly expensive cost of a marker that, as we have discussed, holds its value. But a price that many uneducated, or unknowing buyers mistakenly discount as too high already.

The Mag may not offer the flash, and this hype-ed value that others seem to have, but the reality is that down the long haul, through all manner of use and abuse, the mag is going to stand up to it, and keep on ticking. It is the kind of marker that you honestly could pass on to another generation...as has been done with many of them already.

The only field that the mag is "apparently" lacking in is the modern tourney scene. Not that the markers cannot be capable, mind you....But that scene, according to all indications, is falling hard and likely will not be a consideration in a few years anyway. So what will an Ego 12 do for you then?.......... :cry:

[Nick28]

Punkncat, I hear you. I know, you know, and AO knows. But does anyone outside this forum? I'm not trying to attack AGD, but not realizing the issues when it comes to outsiders is a misstep.

I have a strong feeling that I'm going to spend the rest of this thread defending my opinions. I really hope that doesn't happen.

I have been laughed at when I told people I spent $500 on a mag. Image is everything.

I love my ULE but there's no way I'm going to be able to convince the 10 other people I play with to drop 500 for what I got in the box.

[punkncat]

Oh, I hear ya. I spent the past several months after I sold my last Mag setup trying my very best to talk myself out of them. I picked one up, played with it today, and it was like having a good friend back in my hands again. I didn't use it for the tourney scrimmage, but when I broke it out for open play everyone was standing around oohing and ahhing about it. One of the guys even asked me to find him one.

[TwilightG]

You get what you pay for...

The Automag is probably one of the best and at the same time the most under-appreciated mech. semi-auto marker out there now.

As it stands, mechs are tough to sell nowadays with entry-level electro's being so dirt cheap.


Look at the CCM pumps.. they sell for about $600... and they're pumps!!

It's definitely hard to convince others until they actually experience it for themselves

[maniacmechanic]

Punkncat, I hear you. I know, you know, and AO knows. But does anyone outside this forum? I'm not trying to attack AGD, but not realizing the issues when it comes to outsiders is a misstep.

I have a strong feeling that I'm going to spend the rest of this thread defending my opinions. I really hope that doesn't happen.

I have been laughed at when I told people I spent $500 on a mag. Image is everything.

I love my ULE but there's no way I'm going to be able to convince the 10 other people I play with to drop 500 for what I got in the box.

One of the best ways to combat this problem is let them play with it , when they put all the balls on a pie plate at distance , it makes people think

[georgeyew]

Image is everything.

If that is the case, then you need to be prepared to buy a new marker every year to impress the other players at the field.

[cockerpunk]

AGD isn't coming back until they get some major outside capital.

sorry guys, it just wont happen.

[zondo]

If that is the case, then you need to be prepared to buy a new marker every year to impress the other players at the field.

Nah, just buy a new body/rail combo like the rest of us ;)

[mostpeople]

AGD isn't coming back until they get some major outside capital.

sorry guys, it just wont happen.


THIS

[Watcher]

When you break it all down, you get what you pay for.

Everything AGD screams quality, it is all made locally (not overseas), the material is better than other companies', and the tolerances are made very tight.

When you buy a DYE gun, half of what you pay for is the name. Look at the difference in price of Proto guns to DYE guns, and the Protos are basically missing an LPR, the low pressure bolt, and some milling... Is that worth an extra $1000?


When you buy AGD you don't buy the name, you buy a paintball gun. Tom has been known to say that the reason they use plain, white boxes to house their product is that it saves money and that money is used to better whatever is in the box...


Looking at all the components... X-valve = $250, Intelliframe = $100, ULE body = $150, Rail = $60, Barrel = $50, foregrip and mounts = $50, hardware = $20... That is $680!

$500 for a ULE RT Custom? Its a deal.



Heck, my RT Pro that came out in 2001 probably sold for about as much if not more than the ULE Customs are selling now, and I payed $400 for it not 1 year ago!

Why? Because in that time it has given me less grief than any other gun I've owned, it has shot the fastest and the smoothest, it is the most durable, it is unique, parts are available, it has a whole community to ask if there are problems (big if), it is totally customiseable, and although it is heavy it is compact!

When I take the warp and drop off of mine, the only gun on the wall of my shop that beats it for size is an Invert Mini, and the only ones that meet it pretty evenly in size are the SP guns...

I'd rather spend $400 on an Automag than half that on a DYE gun any day.


The list of "you get what you pay for" companies is short, but Airgun Designs is at the top.

[behemoth]

ITT:

http://archive.perfectduluthday.com/beating-a-dead-horse.gif

[teufelhunden]

@Punk:

Hell of an investment knowing that it's going to go down in value...

Paintball guns aren't investments, they're like cars. You said it yourself. It's losing value no matter what you end up doing to it. Investments make money, not hold 80% of their original value...

[punkncat]

@Punk:

Hell of an investment knowing that it's going to go down in value...

Paintball guns aren't investments, they're like cars. You said it yourself. It's losing value no matter what you end up doing to it. Investments make money, not hold 80% of their original value...


When you are talking PAINTBALL, then yes investment. Considering that almost any other item you buy in paintball looses well over 20% almost instantly, I would say closer to 50%. I wouldn't suggest it in lieu of a good money bearing account or portfolio, but I am not talking finacial futures, talking paintball.

[teufelhunden]

When you are talking PAINTBALL, then yes investment. Considering that almost any other item you buy in paintball looses well over 20% almost instantly, I would say closer to 50%. I wouldn't suggest it in lieu of a good money bearing account or portfolio, but I am not talking finacial futures, talking paintball.

Is your refrigerator an investment? Your car? Motorcycle? Lawn mower? Is your TV an investment?

None of these things are investments. You may have an old fridge, an old car, bike, lawn mower or TV that provides investment value (generally only because they're old), but no paintball gun that is a) in production currently b) was in production nearly unchanged for a long time or c) has been in production even sorta recently is an investment.

The only real "investments" in paintball one can make are protective gear (not going to make you $, but clearly can pay off in your lack of injuries [opportunity cost]) and in "flipping" underpriced guns.

May be a nice thing to tell your wife to get her to STFU about buying paintball stuff, but don't kid yourself into thinking any of this stuff is an investment, even if you are separating out the meanings. It's not even expensive enough to throw it into that category of "it's really expensive so I want to keep it for a long time so I'll call it an investment" type of deal - i.e., i invested a lot in my home theater system by getting the top-of-the-line stuff.

[Dirge]

Maybe "investment" isn't the right word. "Higher resale value" may be a better term. The nice thing about AGD stuff is that, yes, the value drops about 20%, and stops dropping. Not many makers can claim that (ok, Palmer is another exception).

[DeuceSV]

Edit....see ya in three days for that. :nono:

[punkncat]

I agree that perhaps the word "investment" could be replaced for whatever better describes the way you feel about it. In the most litteral sense of the word...no it is not a financial investment, nor any of the goods you buy and use on a daily basis in the most strict of financial terms.

However, I do think that you can "invest" in an item that is better than the norm. You could do a little looking around and find a better fridge, or stove, and you have made a better investment into that particular product.

Really, it is just splitting hairs. I made my point clear enough without us dissecting our particular translation of a word.

Oh and...


3 day Ban

where did that come from? :confused:

[punkncat]

Someone mentioned smart parts so naturally someone had to speak out against them to keep everything in balance.


Oh yeah, I forgot that being cool and bashing SP is worth 100 intarwebz.

[Dend78]

Oh yeah, I forgot that being cool and bashing SP is worth 100 intarwebz.


crap it is?!?!?!? dang it see i step away for a month or so and look what happens i got a lot of intarwebz to be gettin :rofl:

[athomas]

Investment is not a good word to use in this instance, but it does have some merit. Buying good equipment is an investment in your enjoyment factor. A cheap piece of equipment would break down often reducing the enjoyment factor. An overly expensive piece of equipment could reduce the enjoyment factor even if it were reliable, if the cost put a financial burden on the user that lasted into the future and reduced playing time as a result. The automag is a good longterm investment only in the sense that it provides many hours of reliable operation and you can recoup a higher percentage of your initial cost when you do resell it. So, the investment portion represents part of the equipment cost of playing paintball and the enjoyment factor that goes with it.

[chafnerjr]

I understand how you feel, but $500 is still $500. That's a weeks pay for me. 40 hours of busting my :cuss: , to pay for a gun. This may seem ridiculous but any gun sold in 2009 without a clamping feedneck and an on/off asa is... well.

Funny... I've got about $1500 in mine and $1100-$1200 in my wife's "Because Quality Always Shoots Straight!" Then again... ours have clamping feednecks and on/off ASA's. ;)

P.S. It's worth paying $500 simply to watch everyone stare in horror as you douse your mag with a bottle of water at the end of the day, wipe it off with a rag and leave! :cheers:

[SSP REAPER]

Funny... I've got about $1500 in mine and $1100-$1200 in my wife's "Because Quality Always Shoots Straight!" Then again... ours have clamping feednecks and on/off ASA's. ;)

P.S. It's worth paying $500 simply to watch everyone stare in horror as you douse your mag with a bottle of water at the end of the day, wipe it off with a rag and leave! :cheers:
Yup. QFT :cheers:

[RogueFactor]

I love my ULE but there's no way I'm going to be able to convince the 10 other people I play with to drop 500 for what I got in the box.
Its taken longer than expected...but great prices are just around the corner. Hold tight, there is more to follow in the upcoming season. You may just get to outfit those 10 guys after-all. Competition is a wonderful thing :dance:

[snoopay700]

Its taken longer than expected...but great prices are just around the corner. Hold tight, there is more to follow in the upcoming season. You may just get to outfit those 10 guys after-all. Competition is a wonderful thing :dance:
Wait, what? i might be able to afford that ULE mag sooner than i thought?

[athomas]

P.S. It's worth paying $500 simply to watch everyone stare in horror as you douse your mag with a bottle of water at the end of the day, wipe it off with a rag and leave! :cheers:That reminds me of a tournament I played with my emag. The rest of the guys on my team all had the latest electronic guns. After the first day of play, they all had their guns apart and were cleaning and lubing them for the next day. It took well over 1/2 hour for each gun to properly take them apart and do the job. I plopped mind down, one field screw to remove the valve, a moment to pull it out, wipe it down, pull a rag through the body, put it back and done. Another field screw to remove the battery and put it on the charger. A quick surface wipe. Done in under five minutes and enjoying a beer. They all looked at me funny and remarked "That's it?" To which I replied, "And they never break down either :headbang: ", as I sipped my beer. They were all quite aware of that stat, as mine was the only gun that had never broken down in a game in the past couple of years that we had been playing together.

[Sumthinwicked]

here here and chuff chuff!

[Beemer]

It's worth paying $500 simply to watch everyone stare in horror as you douse your mag with a bottle of water at the end of the day, wipe it off with a rag and leave! :cheers:

:clap: :spit_take Priceless

[Watcher]

It took well over 1/2 hour for each gun to properly take them apart and do the job. I plopped mind down, one field screw to remove the valve, a moment to pull it out, wipe it down, pull a rag through the body, put it back and done. Another field screw to remove the battery and put it on the charger. A quick surface wipe. Done in under five minutes and enjoying a beer. They all looked at me funny and remarked "That's it?" To which I replied, "And they never break down either :headbang: ", as I sipped my beer.


QFT


At the end of the day I got in the habit of cleaning everything and breaking the guns down 100% save for the valve internals. The Tippmann 98 takes the longest, next is the Piranha LB, the Phantom...

When I get to the Automag even doing it the hard way takes 10 minutes as one screw holds the valve in, and one screw holds everything else together.
And I usually just do it so I don't have to dry off the frame and rail when I run water through the mainbody.


Playing with a few tourney guys at the local field, after every game they'd take at least 20 minutes to refill pods and hoppers, tweak modes and settings, adjust triggers, clean eyes, check batteries, chrono, refill tanks, yadda yadda.

I get off the field, refill a pod if I have to, top off my tank, look at the LED on my warp and Rico to check the battery, and sit and wait for the next game.


... Actually, it can get quite boring and the gun can feel quite heavy when you are just standing around waiting with it. Thus is the mag's downfall :rofl:

[Sumthinwicked]

this has to be said and this is a joke before anyone crys but....they make gun stands for lil girls LIKE YOU! :rolleyes: lol if 4lbs is to heavy go get an ion,mini,ego, exc... sheesh :rofl:

[RogueFactor]

and honestly, it's not worth the $500 when compared to what else is on the market...But if I hadn't owned a mag "back in the day" I would have never even bothered.

Ive heard this many many times over the years and very recently too. $500 is a hefty price to pay these days when there are cheaper viable alternatives.

As time goes on, mags as a percentage of market share have shrunk. This trend does not appear to be changing. Id guess a majority that buy mags these days are those that knew of them 'back in the day' and do so out of nostalgia. Over time, even those guys who do stick with paintball move up the AGD ladder until they find they are better equipped on the field with something else.

There is no denying that there are few mag dealers. Not the ones that make parts for mags, and not the ones that have to order parts as orders come in. The ones that have sunk their money into AGD inventory and actually stock the parts on their shelves in multiples and not the obligatory 1 that collects dust over time. In the last 8 years I can think of only 1 shop that still does. Just 1.

[Sumthinwicked]

:rolleyes: urs and tunas ? LOL or local shop as all sorts of small crap and a few buildable mags but i bought out the last xvalve LOL

[athomas]

Actually, I hear a few young guys around here comment about owning a mag someday. For younger players, mags are definately a high end mechanical gun when price is concerned. And that puts them out of the market for most casual users. The price makes it rare, but the rarity also makes it a desirable gun among avid mech players and paintball buffs (not to be confused with wanna be AGG heads) that recognize the quality.

[Sumthinwicked]

3 guys on the sec force at work use tacones and one wants to make a longbow like mine LOL

[Watcher]

this has to be said and this is a joke before anyone crys but....they make gun stands for lil girls LIKE YOU! :rolleyes: lol if 4lbs is to heavy go get an ion,mini,ego, exc... sheesh :rofl:

Lolz, so true.

Dude, with a full warp setup, SS body, large tank, etc my gun can weight close to 10... I wouldn't trade that for any other gun if they weighed 8 ounces!

Weight isn't a factor for me. Heck, I used to wear a 25lb drum for 6 hours straight outside in the heat in Marching Band without complaining. Also considering that the drum is suspended a good foot and a half from my center of gravity it feels even heavier.


But, anything feels heavy if you stand around doing nothing holding it...

[SCpoloRicker]

:rolleyes: urs and tunas ? LOL or local shop as all sorts of small crap and a few buildable mags but i bought out the last xvalve LOL

LOL u said LOL