View Full Version : Major manufacturer/distributor closes today. Guesses anyone?
tasker89
09-02-2009, 04:31 PM
http://www.paintballx3.com/general/major-manufacturerdistributor-closes-its-doors-today.html
This is being talked about on MCB and PBN...figured I'd link it here also.
Rumor has it that it is AGD. :eek:
Shirow
09-02-2009, 04:37 PM
I really hope not......
Wrathbringer
09-02-2009, 04:44 PM
I wouldn't count on it, I don't think anyone would describe as AGD as one of the largest companies in paintball anymore.
I'm still leaning towards SP since there was a rumour that they were millions in debt. We shall find out soon though...
xero28
09-02-2009, 04:48 PM
Rumor has it that it is AGD. :eek:
I assume you're kidding with that. If not (and nothing against AGD as we all love them), the article says it is one of the largest manufacturers.
I wouldn't count on it,.
I really just wanted to be the first to say it. :D
my money is on wdp
I dont think it is JT, kee, tippmann, sp
I thought at first it would be JT, but I can see their new co2 tank becoming very popular and keeping them afloat.
insixdays777
09-02-2009, 04:50 PM
http://www.pbgossip.com/
ITS SMARTPARTS!
smartparts is laying off some people, but is not closing its doors. This info is from a person that works in corporate at Smart parts. I just got off the phone with him ~ 15 min ago.
bulzeye
09-02-2009, 05:06 PM
i heard it's smart parts as well.
Sumthinwicked
09-02-2009, 05:10 PM
meh we can only hope LOL
meh we can only hope LOL
How would it benefit us?
fishmishin
09-02-2009, 05:16 PM
:rofl:
:rofl:
:rofl:
:rofl:
:rofl:
:rofl:
I wouldn't believe it until I see the Official Press Release, but if there is a God !! It maybe one of my BEST DAYS EVER !!
It is funny how karma goes around huh?
On a side note though, I do hate to see it for the employee's of the company. As I was laid off last year I know how bad it will suck for them. The job market sucks right now, and I hope for whatever company it is their employee's find new jobs soon.
Oh and hey Tom start searching for that major capitol, it's time to come home !!
By the way I have someone checking on this, so I may know something soon as to whether or not it really is true
tasker89
09-02-2009, 05:19 PM
FWIW ... I know that SP shifted many long standing (and large) customers from net terms to COD starting about 6 months ago. Never a good sign...
It will be interesting if it is SP and the company goes (or has gone) into bankruptcy. It will create some drama with creditors and ownership of the patents.
bulzeye
09-02-2009, 05:20 PM
:rofl:
:rofl:
:rofl:
:rofl:
:rofl:
:rofl:
I wouldn't believe until I see the Official Press Release, but if there is a God !! It maybe one of my BEST DAYS EVER !!
It is funny how karma goes around huh?
On a side note though, I do hate to see it for the employee's of the company. As I was laid off last year I know how bad it will suck for them. The job market sucks right now, and I hope for whatever company it is their employee's find new jobs soon.
Oh and hey Tom start searching for that major capitol, it's time to come home !!
By the way I have someone checking on this, so I may know something soon as to whether or not it really is true
i called a friend of mine and he made a couple calls and was told it was SP as well
i called a friend of mine and he made a couple calls and was told it was SP as well
What exactly did they say? shut down going out of buisness? or laying off employees.
insixdays777
09-02-2009, 05:24 PM
Even if it is smartparts "going under"...I dont trust those weaselly Gardners. It could just be a stunt to rid themselves of the hated Smartparts name brand once and for all. I mean think about it. They got DLX up and by all appearances doing very well with the luxe...
I mean, OK "shutdown" SP. Let all the haters rejoice, dance and sing. Then.....a few months from now oh wow look there is a new company...oh look they are a cool new woodsball focused .50cal company...remember the rumor of the Gardner brothers 50cal company venture a few months back....
Drama will never end.
fishmishin
09-02-2009, 05:24 PM
smartparts is laying off some people, but is not closing its doors. This info is from a person that works in corporate at Smart parts. I just got off the phone with him ~ 15 min ago.
Yep that is what I was just told myself. If they where going to close the doors though would they want everybody to know it? We are talking about the Gardners here. I think it would really hurt them in trying to blow out any remaining inventory.
Yep that is what I was just told myself. If they where going to close the doors though would they want everybody to know it? We are talking about the Gardners here. I think it would really hurt them in trying to blow out any remaining inventory.
You have a point there. Help liquidate what they have.
bulzeye
09-02-2009, 05:27 PM
What exactly did they say? shut down going out of buisness? or laying off employees.
doors are locked
doors are locked
As of when?
Chace
09-02-2009, 05:36 PM
It would be great if it was SP.
I am frankly tired of the cs there. It took me two weeks to get a screw from them for my Ion. And then I traded my Ion for a Mag, and never looked back.
BiNumber3
09-02-2009, 05:43 PM
Well Tom did mention elsewhere that a few large companies were millions in debt...
Shirow
09-02-2009, 05:45 PM
Well, that is refreshing news.
http://www.paintballx3.com/general/major-manufacturerdistributor-closes-its-doors-today.html
WTF is this:
The game of paintball has taken another HUGE hit today as one of the largest and longest running companies in the game has laid off almost its entire staff and are said to be closing their doors in a few weeks. Out of respect to the owners and employees we're holding off releasing the name of the company for a day or two. More tomorrow.
Seriously? That is just piss poor. My soul cries for the woeful state of journalism today.
JaNordy
09-02-2009, 05:59 PM
I won't believe it until I see it, but if true, good riddance. Hope they don't come back ever again. I honestly believe paintball is better off without that company.
Skoad
09-02-2009, 06:07 PM
I've been out of the sport for a while. Regardless of the company, how do you guys see this as a good thing? I feel paintball, as an industry, is dying. Just hope this isn't going to be the first domino.
bulzeye
09-02-2009, 06:09 PM
As of when?
i would guess as of today. we'll see though
i would guess as of today. we'll see though
their operator (whoever answered the phone) was there because I asked them to transfer me.
tasker89
09-02-2009, 06:47 PM
Even if it is smartparts "going under"...I dont trust those weaselly Gardners. It could just be a stunt to rid themselves of the hated Smartparts name brand once and for all. I mean think about it. They got DLX up and by all appearances doing very well with the luxe... I mean, OK "shutdown" SP. Let all the haters rejoice, dance and sing. Then.....a few months from now oh wow look there is a new company...oh look they are a cool new woodsball focused .50cal company...remember the rumor of the Gardner brothers 50cal company venture a few months back....
This is a good possibility. We all know that the leadership at SP knows how to hire lawyers and game the system with the best of them. It is certainly possible that SP will dissolve and some "new" corporate entity will rise in its place. (Gardner/Italia collabo anyone?)
The corporate form is an externalizing machine...if they can dump debts and bad will, while keeping assets (specifically the IP) why wouldn't they?
...what happens to 'their' patents? Would it be at all possible for companies to start producing electros w/out paying royalties?
BigEvil
09-02-2009, 07:06 PM
Steve Davidson has an interesting take on this
http://68caliber.com/wordpress/?p=4804
...what happens to 'their' patents? Would it be at all possible for companies to start producing electros w/out paying royalties?
I doubt it. the gardners still have millions of dollars to protect their IP.
tasker89
09-02-2009, 07:16 PM
I doubt it. the gardners still have millions of dollars to protect their IP.
The patents are an asset...they'd be part of any bankruptcy or re-organization. They don't instantly expire just because the parent company goes kaput. They could be sold on the open market or folded into another enterprise.
The patents are an asset...they'd be part of any bankruptcy or re-organization. They don't instantly expire just because the parent company goes kaput. They could be sold on the open market or folded into another enterprise.
not necessarily true. I dont know this for sure, but if it were me I would own the patents, and allow my company Smart Parts to pay me royalties for them. In the business world people separate themselves from their endeavors to protect both the company and them personally. The Gardners imo are smarter than most people want to give them credit for. I would put money that they will still come out on top personally.
teufelhunden
09-02-2009, 07:30 PM
not necessarily true. I dont know this for sure, but if it were me I would own the patents, and allow my company Smart Parts to pay me royalties for them. In the business world people separate themselves from their endeavors to protect both the company and them personally. The Gardners imo are smarter than most people want to give them credit for. I would put money that they will still come out on top personally.
Sell the patents into an LLC which would then accept royalties from SP to use them - separate liability.
Lohman446
09-02-2009, 08:24 PM
I would assume SP could then concentrate on collecting "damages" from the various people who infringed on their patents and forced them out of a "productive long term business" that was hurt by the down turn in the economy in general and paintball in specific.
Carnage reigns
09-02-2009, 08:37 PM
I hope somehow that they are force to liquidate that patent. That would benefit the pb community as a whole.
going_home
09-02-2009, 09:48 PM
http://viewfromthedeadbox.blogspot.com/2009/09/mr-curious-strikes-again.html
tasker89
09-02-2009, 10:39 PM
not necessarily true.
Huh? The patents are an asset. What you are talking about is the distinction between the assignee and the patent owner. In some cases the assignee, owner and inventor are all the same person. In some cases not. I don't know if Smart Parts the corporation owns the patents or if the Gardner's somehow personally share ownership between each other. It is entirely possible (though unlikely) that some of the IP was put up as collateral for loans.
Regardless, you can bet that any creditors owed substantial sums will come after the IP. Whether or not they prevail in court will remain to be seen.
I don't doubt the Gardner's intelligence and business savvy. They are bright people with excellent educations...and they obviously know how to hire lawyers to work the system. They will be fine personally (unless they made some really poor decisions).
I will not be the least bit surprised if this is just a shuffling of the deck insofar as IP, debts, brand names and whatever other baggage SP is carrying. Corporate shenanigans.
insixdays777
09-03-2009, 05:54 AM
Wow that was faster than I thought...see my post above #16...I called it...
http://www.youtube.com/user/GIMilSim
Its just a shell game.
BigEvil
09-03-2009, 06:56 AM
Smart Parts can take their .50 caliber paint and milsim crap and shove it right back up their donkeys.
Shirow
09-03-2009, 07:16 AM
I would have to concur with that statement.
steve_81
09-03-2009, 07:27 AM
The 50 Cal. Idea didn't work in the early 90's and it was generally accepted by the major companies that it didn't work, so why is it there is even a thought to go to 50 Cal.?
xero28
09-03-2009, 08:24 AM
:cheers:
Smart Parts can take their .50 caliber paint and milsim crap and shove it right back up their donkeys.
Frizzle Fry
09-03-2009, 08:54 AM
The 50 Cal. Idea didn't work in the early 90's and it was generally accepted by the major companies that it didn't work, so why is it there is even a thought to go to 50 Cal.?
It didn't work in the early 2000s either... Maxx55? US55? Remember those at your local walmart?
Either way, it's kinda wrong to call SP one of the oldest companies in the industry... I mean it's pre-dated by quite a few, and even then the SmartParts of 1994 was a completely different beast than the one we all know and... er... know today.
BigEvil
09-03-2009, 09:12 AM
The 50 Cal. Idea didn't work in the early 90's and it was generally accepted by the major companies that it didn't work, so why is it there is even a thought to go to 50 Cal.?
Because they want to change the entire industry so they can corner it.
Shirow
09-03-2009, 09:23 AM
Because they want to change the entire industry so they can corner it.
They're just so obnoxious.. even their name sucks. Gardner-Italia Milsim?
Imagine if AGD was called 'Kaye's Awesome Shooters'
Flatliner333
09-03-2009, 09:44 AM
http://www.pbgossip.com/
ITS SMARTPARTS!
" In this economy they are taking the steps they feel needed in order to stay open."
:rolleyes: let's see... what all would that have included in the past???
Spider-TW
09-03-2009, 09:47 AM
Does this mean I will be able to pick up an ion cheap? **from behind the bunker** :p
I still have not noticed a luxe on the field. I've seen one on a bst listing, so I guess that one may have been on the field.
I just can't imagine many of SP markers continuing on like the autococker has. Even for parts, if SP had a going out of business sale, are there some solenoids or particular markers (maybe the shocker) that would have some value in a garage sale?
I know there are many SP markers out there, but a couple of years in the closet with the battery leaking should kill a bunch of them. That and old crusty paint. I've always considered their older barrels and the old maxflo regulators to be useful, but if I had the opportunity to salvage something from a new SP junk pile, I can't think of what it would be. If I see a 2k9 SP marker for $200 in a year or two, is there one that would rebuild like a 2k5 timmy?
dolphin1823
09-03-2009, 09:51 AM
Has anyone considered Brass Eagle? I know they’ve been around since the early 90’s, my first marker was a Brass Eagle Poison I bought in 1992, what a waste of money that was.
Everything they’ve made is crap…Stingray, Raptor, Rainmaker, Talon, they never had even a decent marker. Their paint is low quality, as are their mask and other paintball equipment.
The Smart Parts Ion is the top selling marker on Action Village’s web sit, plus they have many other top sellers in other areas and the new Impulse. Brass Eagle makes more sense.
snoopay700
09-03-2009, 09:56 AM
Wow that was faster than I thought...see my post above #16...I called it...
http://www.youtube.com/user/GIMilSim
Its just a shell game.
Hopefully you're still wrong and this is one of the things that pushed them into debt...
Speaking of which, i went to their site and they have a bio on the Gardners, and i found out Bill named one of his kids after himself. I found that to be pretty funny as it's not all that surprising with a guy like him.
xero28
09-03-2009, 10:30 AM
Imagine if AGD was called 'Kaye's Awesome Shooters'
Yeah, but that would just make them even cooler to own. ;)
leloup
09-03-2009, 10:32 AM
Speaking of which, i went to their site and they have a bio on the Gardners, and i found out Bill named one of his kids after himself. I found that to be pretty funny as it's not all that surprising with a guy like him.
Seriously? He named a kid after himself? That never happens; they'd have to add some weird initials on the back of his name, like "jr".
Come on buddy, naming a son after his father is common place in all civilizations in the world, and isn't selfish at all.
Personally, I think if SP takes a hit, it will effect the industry as a whole for the worse. Yes, they are often negative to other manufacturers, but their markers do make money for small businesses, which are the back bone of the industry.
Shirow
09-03-2009, 10:38 AM
Yeah, but that would just make them even cooler to own. ;)
Yeah, maybe they could change the Tac-One to the Kaye-One Uber Elite. Or the RT ULE Custom - Kaye's Custom Super Awesome Blaster!
I am liking this idea more and more!
warpfeedmod
09-03-2009, 11:08 AM
even if SP wants to corner the market and push 50 cal and milsim stuff, it won't happen overnight. Fields won't be dropping money to replace all their equipment so they can just go straight 50 cal. I'm sure there will be a migration period between 68 and 50, with some fields even continuing to use both. I mean the local field I play at, I talked to the owner about it weeks ago when the announcement of the 50 cal revolution came about, and he even mentioned that there's no way in hell he would drop that kind of money for all new rental equipment just because some big company pushes it.
If anything he'd slowly roll it in and use both or even continue to use both. I don't think it will be as big a deal as everyone speculates, sure there are some markers where you may have to sell it off and use all new gear, but some of the newer markers im sure there might be a method of some sort of drop-in conversion to 50 cal, allowing the player the best of both worlds.
Shirow
09-03-2009, 11:26 AM
even if SP wants to corner the market and push 50 cal and milsim stuff, it won't happen overnight. Fields won't be dropping money to replace all their equipment so they can just go straight 50 cal. I'm sure there will be a migration period between 68 and 50, with some fields even continuing to use both. I mean the local field I play at, I talked to the owner about it weeks ago when the announcement of the 50 cal revolution came about, and he even mentioned that there's no way in hell he would drop that kind of money for all new rental equipment just because some big company pushes it.
If anything he'd slowly roll it in and use both or even continue to use both. I don't think it will be as big a deal as everyone speculates, sure there are some markers where you may have to sell it off and use all new gear, but some of the newer markers im sure there might be a method of some sort of drop-in conversion to 50 cal, allowing the player the best of both worlds.
What will push 50 cal is if it is noticeably better than 68. If it's just more air efficient - who cares. 1400 shots off a 20oz tank vs 600, I don't care, I just fill up between each game. I don't think most people would switch just for efficiencies sake.
However... if it can somehow shoot farther, more accurately, break more often - some kind of real, noticeable performance improvement.. I think it could take off very quickly. The first time some guy is shooting you and you can't reach him.. you will quickly think about replacing your marker.
I haven't seen any evidence that this would be the case yet - but if it is, I think it could be a revolution.
Honestly, I hope it isn't, for my own selfish sake.
G Squat
09-03-2009, 12:47 PM
Hey there new guy. We don't circumvent the cuss filters here.
This is your one and only warning, and it will be a vacation next time.
Army
I hope it's not any better, for selfish reasons as well :rolleyes: I know I don't want to go out and invest a bunch of money in this crap, especially if the Gardners would be pocketing my money.
I know I have read somewhere on this forum that it would not be easily possible to convert a mag to support .50 cal paint because the diameter of the power tube is too large, but do you guys think it might be possible to make a smaller diameter power tube and different front bolt, plus new body to support .50 cal paint? It would take alot of engineering and effort I'm sure, but someone has to do it if .50 cal is worth it.....
:cry:
snoopay700
09-03-2009, 04:17 PM
Seriously? He named a kid after himself? That never happens; they'd have to add some weird initials on the back of his name, like "jr".
Come on buddy, naming a son after his father is common place in all civilizations in the world, and isn't selfish at all.
Whoa there i was trying to lighten up the thread a bit, and i do think it is self centered to name a kid after yourself, but from hearing the guy talk i'm not surprised that he would do that is all i was saying. And plus when you plan on having more than one kid naming one after yourself is stupid in my opinion. But that's not the issue at hand so we should let it die here.
As for the whole .50 cal thing, i doubt it's going to take off, i think someone did the math (i didn't check it but it sounds reasonable) and it only nets you 15-30 feet more. The main thing is accuracy, which i still don't think will be too much better. Overall the first strike round beats out .50 cal in both of those areas and it's still .68 cal.
Oh and G squat, i'd edit your post before a mod finds you and bans you for evading the swear filter.
Oh and G squat, i'd edit your post before a mod finds you and bans you for evading the swear filter.
Dun Dun Dunnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn!
Frizzle Fry
09-04-2009, 12:19 AM
Seriously? He named a kid after himself? That never happens; they'd have to add some weird initials on the back of his name, like "jr".
Come on buddy, naming a son after his father is common place in all civilizations in the world, and isn't selfish at all.
Personally, I think if SP takes a hit, it will effect the industry as a whole for the worse. Yes, they are often negative to other manufacturers, but their markers do make money for small businesses, which are the back bone of the industry.
Yeah. Until he pulls a George Foreman and names all 8 of his kids after himself it's probably not a big deal.
PrimoRocker
09-04-2009, 07:27 AM
What will push 50 cal is if it is noticeably better than 68. If it's just more air efficient - who cares. 1400 shots off a 20oz tank vs 600, I don't care, I just fill up between each game. I don't think most people would switch just for efficiencies sake.
However... if it can somehow shoot farther, more accurately, break more often - some kind of real, noticeable performance improvement.. I think it could take off very quickly. The first time some guy is shooting you and you can't reach him.. you will quickly think about replacing your marker.
I haven't seen any evidence that this would be the case yet - but if it is, I think it could be a revolution.
Honestly, I hope it isn't, for my own selfish sake.
As long as someone makes 68 cal paint, I'll be using it. I havent seen anything that proves 50 cal would be better than 68.
GIMil's video isnt reliable, they dont mention anything about what barrels are used or paint manufacter used. Also, tippmanns and spyders are not known as the most air efficient. Why didnt they compare their results to more high end gear?
I know I have read somewhere on this forum that it would not be easily possible to convert a mag to support .50 cal paint because the diameter of the power tube is too large, but do you guys think it might be possible to make a smaller diameter power tube and different front bolt, plus new body to support .50 cal paint? It would take alot of engineering and effort I'm sure, but someone has to do it if .50 cal is worth it.....
The mag is perfectly fine how it is, if you wanted a 50 cal marker you'd be best off getting a new gun down the line and keeping your autmag for when you want to shoot 68.
Shirow
09-04-2009, 08:52 AM
I agree - unless 50cal can be shown to be amazingly better (which it isn't) I wouldn't want to convert my mag just as a matter of principle.
G Squat
09-04-2009, 08:37 PM
Dun Dun Dunnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn!
Lame... still didn't answer my qestion Einstein.
punkncat
09-05-2009, 07:28 AM
Don't test Army, hw will gladly give you a vacation.
So, this turned out to be nothing more than irresponsible "reporting" , passing along a rumor, yes?
As long as it is not Tippmann. They are too important to the new players to go under. I cannot tell you how many newbs first gun was a "Tippie."
(And important to people who want a gun that can be used to dig a hole and the gassed up and fired. In that order.)
So, this turned out to be nothing more than irresponsible "reporting" , passing along a rumor, yes?
That pretty much summs it up
[NA]WARLORD
09-05-2009, 07:47 AM
even then the SmartParts of 1994 was a completely different beast than the one we all know and... er... know today.
How so ?
punkncat
09-05-2009, 07:48 AM
As long as it is not Tippmann. They are too important to the new players to go under. I cannot tell you how many newbs first gun was a "Tippie."
(And important to people who want a gun that can be used to dig a hole and the gassed up and fired. In that order.)
Since you took it off subject, I will be glad to inject a comment.
That may have been true some years back, but the piece of crap they are releasing now is an embarrasment to the name that was Tippmann.
their quality has slipped that far? Bummer. I used to love 'em back when I was playing (Say about 2002 -2005) more regular. That is a real shame. Makes me feel like a jerk for telling newbies to get a Tippmann for the ruggedness. Ah well.
Actually maybe because of what you said, it IS Tippmann.
tasker89
09-05-2009, 07:57 AM
So, this turned out to be nothing more than irresponsible "reporting" , passing along a rumor, yes?
Or the irresponsible reporting was closer to accurate than SP would like paintballers to believe. It is a privately held company...so it isn't like they "have" to disclose a bankruptcy filing (though someone could dig public records to find one), nor do they have an obligation to reveal the extent of the damage to the public.
This needs time to settle so the "real" story can be pieced together.
punkncat
09-05-2009, 07:57 AM
Don't feel bad. There is very little available out there that holds up to the quality of even the same product a few years ago.
Given the lifespan of the average rec baller, and the length of time before they either quit, or feel the need to "upgrade"...I still suggest the Tippy, in spite of it being a shadow of it's former self....it is still, hands down, one of the best entry level shooters out there.
/hijack
Ok, so I did a google.com search and all I could find was a request for a credit card number to access a database.
Beemer
09-05-2009, 07:41 PM
Lame... still didn't answer my qestion Einstein.
Ut oh.....guess you just failed at asking a question, if a full edit of your post was needed. :tard:
Not a very wise reply either. I would remove it quick before Army sees it. ;) http://home.comcast.net/~beemerone/popcorn.gif
(And important to people who want a gun that can be used to dig a hole and the gassed up and fired. In that order.)
I can do that with my Mag and shoot it under water too. :D
going_home
09-05-2009, 07:49 PM
I can do that with my Mag and shoot it under water too. :D
How does the paint hold up under water ?
:rolleyes:
Beemer
09-05-2009, 07:55 PM
How does the paint hold up under water ?
:rolleyes:
Did I say anything about paint? Pay attention. :argh:
Beemer
09-05-2009, 08:06 PM
Don't feel bad. There is very little available out there that holds up to the quality of even the same product a few years ago.
Given the lifespan of the average rec baller, and the length of time before they either quit, or feel the need to "upgrade"...I still suggest the Tippy, in spite of it being a shadow of it's former self....it is still, hands down, one of the best entry level shooters out there.
/hijack
Bah AGD[little] quality is the same as it was in 90. Define entry level. End jack. :p
Spider-TW
09-05-2009, 10:03 PM
How does the paint hold up under water ?
:rolleyes:
You have to be fast. One of our locals shot his mag while laying in a pond he had just fallen into. Don't know if the hopper was flooded yet (doubtful), but the muzzle was under water for the first few shots as the shots were coming up out of the water. :ninja:
Frizzle Fry
09-05-2009, 11:00 PM
Did I say anything about paint? Pay attention. :argh:
Amen... At the local field I sometimes scare the recballers by stuffing my aired up marker into a big water barrel and firing off a few shots.
I can do that with my Mag and shoot it under water too. :D
OK, Ok... I get it they still rock and roll, dig and dug, submerge and shoot! :headbang:
Seriously though, what is going to happen when all the major producers fall by the wayside? I mean admittedly it has been years since I have played, and all I really know anymore: mags are still the same guns they were, WGP is not an issue, angels are still over-priced, and that corners are being cut like fat from a raw piece of meat by most manufacturers.
So, what could happen if say a half of the major companies shut down? I mean imagine if there were no more Angels, Shockers (ok that might not be completely awful), Timmies, or Egos. Aside form some of the smaller manufacturers, it would be like going to an Indy race driving a Dodge Omni. Just kind of a scary thought. That and a lot of the innovation might come back to the sport. Seriously.. new minds and new ideas. :cry: :confused: ;)
Maghog
09-06-2009, 08:26 AM
DIE EVIL HEATHENS!!!
If this is really true, (not wishing any harm on any body) I hope they go down in flames, and that there is enough gasoline lying around.
No company has hurt paintball more than Smart Parts, I don't care what anyone says. The Gardeners are greedy people and I can only hope that their selfishness has finally caught up with them.
I don't think that it's all that simple though. They won't just go away like that.
Time will tell.
Dan@Triggernomics
MedicDVG
09-06-2009, 10:31 AM
What will come of this is not the end of SP, well maybe in its current form. The Gardner Brothers are not idiots, despite what many think of them. They will emerge leaner, stronger, and just as active in paintball as ever. No licensing will be dissolved as this is where the Gardner's bread is buttered. While you may wish to dance hallelujah in the streets and run naked screaming 'the king is dead" at the top of your lungs, all that time Billy and Adam are laughing their collective rear ends off at your inanity as they continue to weave their web of evil dreams of world domination. Classic strategy really if you think about it. Dump what isn't really working the way you want it to and feint and strike somewhere unexpected.
SP as a brand may go away, but SP markers will still be around in the form of DLX, and if the rumor mongers have it right, GI Milsim, or whatever. The G-boys are too business savvy to stick with the albatross SP has become with the negativity in the marketplace, much of it expressed here, and even by myself. There is still money to be made in paintball, and you can bet your first born that Adam and Billy Gardner know how to squeeze every last cent out of this industry. They don't take a crap unless they can get paid for it somehow.
So enjoy the hating while you can, but it is a false hope that the empire that SP has become will fade away into relative obscurity. Leaner, meaner, and stronger, will they become under their 're-organization' my young padewan... mark my words.
tasker89
09-06-2009, 11:06 AM
So enjoy the hating while you can, but it is a false hope that the empire that SP has become will fade away into relative obscurity. Leaner, meaner, and stronger, will they become under their 're-organization' my young padewan... mark my words.
TITCR :D
They've got too much $$ and too much industry knowledge to just shut it down. They'll use the system (which is all but built to allow the well lawyered to pump and dump in every which way) to externalize debts, bad will, labor costs, and anything else they can...forcing creditors to eat it....and they will end up elsewhere. Reborn like a phoenix...with fresh capital and a fresh start.
Coralis
09-06-2009, 12:51 PM
What would really be funny (well kinda funny in a karma sorta way ) is if the major insurers basically got together and said they weren't going to insure fields etc. that allowed electric guns making the Gardners patent's essentially worthless.
Disclaimer ... Im in no way advocating this, I just thought it would be massive balancing of karma , if you believe in that sort of thing.
snoopay700
09-06-2009, 01:00 PM
What would really be funny (well kinda funny in a karma sorta way ) is if the major insurers basically got together and said they weren't going to insure fields etc. that allowed electric guns making the Gardners patent's essentially worthless.
Disclaimer ... Im in no way advocating this, I just thought it would be massive balancing of karma , if you believe in that sort of thing.
That would be very bad for my marker design... :(
DamianTC
09-06-2009, 02:00 PM
come on guys, was anything made official yet? I dont even have the interest to look into this because its going to be a big waste of time. I am calling the bluff right now. Suprised it wasnt done 4 days ago. Look at the post, anyone wanting to start rumors could have made that up. I am so suprised the ending of the post doesnt say "send this to 12 people in the next 12 minutes or you will have bad....."
...because then we would all know its real... gimme a break
warbeak2099
09-06-2009, 02:40 PM
Honestly, everyone needs to calm down on both sides of the fence. This isn't a bad thing regardless of who the company shutting down is. It will only help to create a power vacuum that more new companies could possibly fill. I don't see how that's bad for paintball. SP dying wouldn't even make a dent in paintball, it would only breath some fresh air into the industry.
snoopay700
09-07-2009, 09:44 AM
come on guys, was anything made official yet? I dont even have the interest to look into this because its going to be a big waste of time. I am calling the bluff right now. Suprised it wasnt done 4 days ago. Look at the post, anyone wanting to start rumors could have made that up. I am so suprised the ending of the post doesnt say "send this to 12 people in the next 12 minutes or you will have bad....."
...because then we would all know its real... gimme a break
SP isn't gone yet but numerous people have heard that SP laid of 90% of their employees, and even my boss who is close with the company heard from someone in the company that they laid off 90%, but that doesn't mean they're closing.
going_home
09-07-2009, 08:58 PM
inanity
:rofl:
Heheh
He said inanity !
:clap:
Now go look it up clowns.
:rolleyes:
rifleman
09-07-2009, 09:07 PM
my money is on airstar....oh wait, that was over 10 years ago
BigEvil
09-07-2009, 09:09 PM
my money is on airstar....oh wait, that was over 10 years ago
:spit_take
G Squat
09-09-2009, 09:11 AM
Ut oh.....guess you just failed at asking a question, if a full edit of your post was needed. :tard:
Not a very wise reply either. I would remove it quick before Army sees it. ;) http://home.comcast.net/~beemerone/popcorn.gif
I can do that with my Mag and shoot it under water too. :D I will do no such thing. Both posts were appropriate as any. I ask again, what possiblilties would SP's demise mean for AGD if any? Is this question difficult for any of you to understand? :tard:
Shirow
09-09-2009, 09:17 AM
I will do no such thing. Both posts were appropriate as any. I ask again, what possiblilties would SP's demise mean for AGD if any? Is this question difficult for any of you to understand? :tard:
I would imagine 'none'.
BigEvil
09-09-2009, 09:45 AM
The result of this entire episode was nothing but tons of publicity for SP on every paintball forum and news site on the net.
Frizzle Fry
09-09-2009, 01:11 PM
The result of this entire episode was nothing but tons of publicity for SP on every paintball forum and news site on the net.
Oh my god! Are you suggesting that SP would send out vague and innacurate information to the experienced reporters of the never-biased paintball media in hopes of firing up ages-old arguments on internet forums and stirring up tons of publicity for a company that's grown too big for its britches?!?
I for one believe SmartParts would not be that shallow... And besides, who argues on forums? :rolleyes:
(sarcasm not directed at Ed, but at the situation in general)
Evil, I think you're on to something. 30% laid off according to the info I got from a few people slightly involved with the situation, but somehow that number has tripled in reports. I also heard that R&D is intact but there'll be a cutdown in actual marker production. That makes sense to me...
Between 2003 and 2007 SmartParts was making so freakin many markers just due to rush of new tourney wannabes that it really changed the game as a whole. Now SmartParts is being held accountable for the quality of their work, stamping out 100,000 IONs in a day isn't going to replace having a solid flagship gun (Shocker), a "dream gun" (New Impulse) and some simple lowend markers with no frills and no false claims (Vibe, et al). So what with their newer markers only often falling apart rather than always falling apart, they aren't selling the same thing to the same person once every two years unless it's a new edition of their high-end.
I have a feeling that SP wants to come out of this looking like they trimmed the fat, both in terms of employees and gear. The Gardeners will be out of the picture, the ION will cost $100 more and turn into something new(ish), and people will be too busy arguing about who's worse than who and who screwd who with which patent to realize that SP is getting a facelift, not a real fix.
BigEvil
09-09-2009, 02:14 PM
Oh my god!
Between 2003 and 2007 SmartParts was making so freakin many markers....
I've had plenty of people tell me that most of the big guys have tons of older models NIB laying around. Even Simon mentioned you can still get NIB Bob Long Alias Timmies in a thread here on AO recently. Sucks when you have to make a new model every year when you cannot sell out of last years.
Is it a surprise to find out that all of these guys are millions in the hole? Watch out Billy G, maybe Obama will swoop in and nationalize your comapny. :D
Frizzle Fry
09-09-2009, 02:28 PM
I've had plenty of people tell me that most of the big guys have tons of older models NIB laying around. Even Simon mentioned you can still get NIB Bob Long Alias Timmies in a thread here on AO recently. Sucks when you have to make a new model every year when you cannot sell out of last years.
Is it a surprise to find out that all of these guys are millions in the hole? Watch out Billy G, maybe Obama will swoop in and nationalize your comapny. :D
You're not kidding. The manufacturers have new-old-stock, the dealers have new-old-stock, and forget the Ebay stores! In terms of parts alone, provided you're not looking for something defunct like KAPP or AKA, you can find "New in Box" almost anything made since 2003.
Overproduction is an issue... People TALKED a lot about buying the next new thing, but it didn't happen much. When the 2010 model is $1,275 and your 2008 model ($1,100 + $300 in upgrades) only sells for $450 on PbN you better have a pretty sweet paper route or poolboy gig to pay for your new marker.
Lame... still didn't answer my qestion Einstein.
You never asked a question that was relevant and civil. However, keep going on with this attitude and we'll see who gets to stay or not, Oppenheimer.
To answer your latest post, AGD would not be affected what-so-ever by SP going down the inevitable tubes. We are our own entity, with no need for any support(or lack of support) from SP.
BTW; this isn't PBN or PB Legion, we conduct ourselves better and wiser. Take the hint.
Lohman446
09-09-2009, 02:56 PM
My monies an Army winning this one.
/just a vague guess though.
snoopay700
09-09-2009, 03:07 PM
My monies an Army winning this one.
/just a vague guess though.
Well despite the fact that he's right here, the one who wields the banstick usually wins.
BTW; this isn't PBN or PB Legion, we conduct ourselves better and wiser. Take the hint.
a little bias ehh. you can register at www.bigevilonline.com.
SSP-SheiK
09-09-2009, 03:52 PM
you could call it biased, or maybe he knows something we dont.... :rolleyes:
going_home
09-09-2009, 03:52 PM
Imagine a forum where mag enthusiasts had no hate.
Where there were no sides to take.
Where no one had to have the last word.
Where mag enthusiasts appreciated everyone that took the time to make new and innovative aftermarket mag products.
:(
SSP-SheiK
09-09-2009, 03:57 PM
not hate, just stating my observation but, my bad...
right, SP... hope they do go down the drain.. weather its sooner or later
Shirow
09-09-2009, 04:31 PM
Where mag enthusiasts appreciated everyone that took the time to make new and innovative aftermarket mag products.
:(
Like the magic box?
BigEvil
09-09-2009, 04:46 PM
Imagine a forum where mag enthusiasts had no hate.
Where there were no sides to take.
Where no one had to have the last word.
Where mag enthusiasts appreciated everyone that took the time to make new and innovative aftermarket mag products.
:(
...and where people selling used items didnt gouge people on prices.
Ahhhhhh.. im getting high just imagining the bliss. :rolleyes: Thanks for the visual GH! :clap:
You know... I have a funny feeling things are going to be very different around here soon.
:dance:
SecondRate
09-09-2009, 05:52 PM
Imagine a forum where mag enthusiasts had no hate.
Where there were no sides to take.
Where no one had to have the last word.
Where mag enthusiasts appreciated everyone that took the time to make new and innovative aftermarket mag products.
:(Sounds just like www.bigevilonline.com to me....
I never see hate there anymore, just mag people looking to talk paintball and new products. Which by the way, looks like things are really picking up!
:cheers:
Sumthinwicked
09-09-2009, 06:11 PM
:rolleyes: can u please remove ur head from big es butt :rofl: ty for ur time LOL
zondo
09-09-2009, 06:37 PM
You know... I have a funny feeling things are going to be very different around here soon.
:dance:
And then I can see if my conspiracy theories are correct... :ninja:
Shirow
09-09-2009, 06:57 PM
Is it going to be peanut butter jelly time?
SecondRate
09-09-2009, 06:58 PM
:rolleyes: can u please remove ur head from big es butt :rofl: ty for ur time LOL
Really have you been there lately or at all. I would love for you to show me the hate there!
There is a new policy there and the Mods there deal with any hate is quickly.
From what I've seen and heard there were too many good people being affected and started to complain to BigEvil.
Check it out!
:)
/ sorry for the derailment.
// back to the subject.
Sumthinwicked
09-09-2009, 07:49 PM
yea im a member but i cant look at it at work where my internet has been for 4 months due toa block LOL but it was a bit brown-nosish
Smoothice
09-09-2009, 09:13 PM
yea im a member but i cant look at it at work where my internet has been for 4 months due toa block LOL but it was a bit brown-nosish
secondrate can remove his head from BigE's butt and mann can remove his head from rogue's butt :rofl:
snoopay700
09-09-2009, 09:18 PM
secondrate can remove his head from BigE's butt and mann can remove his head from rogue's butt :rofl:
Agreed, now let's all get back to the topic at hand as this whole thing has gotten old by now. :cheers:
secondrate can remove his head from BigE's butt and mann can remove his head from rogue's butt :rofl:
:rofl: You know its funny. I was on BEO when BEO only had a half dozen members. I joined pbl and the new beo when they opened. Because I did not go against pbl when the new beo opened I was considered one of "them". Scott and John did not want me there so I left.
If this means my head is in shawn's rear...meh who cares its the internet. shawn has never done wrong by me, and has helped me when I asked. Why should I throw Estones at him? If you ask me you guys are all a little immature, and the sad thing is that none of you would act the way you do on the internet on a paintball field.
snoopay700
09-09-2009, 09:33 PM
:rofl: You know its funny. I was on BEO when BEO only had a half dozen members. I joined pbl and the new beo when they opened. Because I did not go against pbl when the new beo opened I was considered one of "them". Scott and John did not want me there so I left.
If this means my head is in shawn's rear...meh who cares its the internet. shawn has never done wrong by me, and has helped me when I asked. Why should I throw Estones at him? If you ask me you guys are all a little immature, and the sad thing is that none of you would act the way you do on the internet on a paintball field.
I reiterate, this whole thing is a little old by now, i don't know all of what happened nor do i particularly care anymore. This forum is a go between of both, bashing either here is stupid, now let's end this threadjack and get back to the topic at hand.
Smoothice
09-09-2009, 09:37 PM
Why should I throw Estones at him? If you ask me you guys are all a little immature, and the sad thing is that none of you would act the way you do on the internet on a paintball field.
Thank you pot for calling the kettle black.
You honestly think this post http://www.automags.org/forums/showpost.php?p=2658163&postcount=101 wasn't throwing a stone at some one?
Way to be above that behavior :tard:
Frizzle Fry
09-09-2009, 09:40 PM
...So, anybody have any more news about SPs changes? I'm interested to know what the Gardeners whole new woodsball thing is. Are we talking markers, gear, or both?
snoopay700
09-09-2009, 09:42 PM
...So, anybody have any more news about SPs changes? I'm interested to know what the Gardeners whole new woodsball thing is. Are we talking markers, gear, or both?
Knowing them it's probably both, they'll put out a new line of gear, that is if they aren't going under, which i'm not sure if they are or aren't
zondo
09-09-2009, 09:43 PM
So SP layoffs = restructuring to take over the milsim market from Tippmann?
Frizzle Fry
09-09-2009, 09:55 PM
So SP layoffs = restructuring to take over the milsim market from Tippmann?
From the people I've talked to who are involved in the company, it seems that the Gardners aren't actually part of the overall SP foodchain anymore. Someone new has been taking care of a lot, and they've taken themselves (been pushed) out of the picture. I heard they had a milsim side project, and there's been a few references in this thread.
Lohman446
09-10-2009, 05:50 AM
Its not a real secondary forum without dedicated hate threads. Even if its not active you all need to get back on track.
:)
Bagheera
09-10-2009, 10:53 AM
Great. If they go after the milsim market in a hardcore way, they'll probably patent putting rails on paintball guns next.
Frizzle Fry
09-10-2009, 02:10 PM
Great. If they go after the milsim market in a hardcore way, they'll probably patent putting rails on paintball guns next.
I have a feeling there will be more questionable patents, but I feel like this is a trap. Dragging them into Milsim territory is a good thing; it's like tricking someone into a minefield. When they patent something that a major firearms company or military branch owns, they WILL ge sued. Big companies will protect themselves, whereas small paintball companies will (and did) fold under the pressure of the Gardners money.
Bagheera
09-11-2009, 03:41 AM
I have a feeling there will be more questionable patents, but I feel like this is a trap. Dragging them into Milsim territory is a good thing; it's like tricking someone into a minefield. When they patent something that a major firearms company or military branch owns, they WILL ge sued. Big companies will protect themselves, whereas small paintball companies will (and did) fold under the pressure of the Gardners money.
My post was completely tongue-in-cheek, but you do raise a good point. Here's hoping that greed outweighs intelligence in this matter.
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