Got My "Cheater" Today!! [Archive] - Automags.Org Online Forums

View Full Version : Got My "Cheater" Today!!

xero28

10-07-2009, 06:41 PM

First off, let me tell you how cool a person ZapTheMad is. I had originally bought his Pneu-Manifold he made/sold a couple of months back. I bought it from another person here on AO, so I had never done any direct business with him. I wrote to him to tell him that I had acquired the manifold and how cool it was. He told me that he was working on a new/better design and if I sent him the old one, he'd send me the new one, no extra charges or anything. Now, momma' didn't raise no fool, so I sent back the old one and got the new one in the mail today. It took about 5 minutes to install, no modifications whatsoever to the frame. I drained about 1000 psi from my tank in a couple of minutes. Let me tell you, this thing rocks. I only had a few minutes to tinker with it since I've got both of my young girls with me and my wife is out of the house, so there will still be some fine tuning. I was able to easily walk this, and with a few more modifications (stops, possibly magnets in the trigger), I know I can get this thing to sing. Zap, thanks for all of your hard work and love of the Mag to come up with this. Those who are waiting anxiously for their Cheater will not be disappointed. I took a few photos with my phone to show what it looks like installed. The marker is obviously not gassed up in the pictures, but when it is, the trigger pin is flush up against the trigger with less than about 1-2 mm of pull required, though the safety still works perfectly. Zap put A LOT of time and thought into these. I'm using a Tippmann asa which has a built in LPR, it's a semi-sleeper. I just got the Cerberus foregrip too, but I don't know if I want to run the LPR off the front of that or what. Time will tell.

http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/7462/1007091622.jpg http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/4128/1007091620.jpg

http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/8215/1007091621.jpg http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/7861/1007091621a.jpg

bizzarr1

10-07-2009, 08:08 PM

That is really nice...

Where do you find those ASA's???

MANN

10-07-2009, 08:15 PM

you should tap the top of that lpr/asa so you cant see the tubing.

TwilightG

10-07-2009, 08:34 PM

I bought it from another person here on AO, so I had never done any direct business with him. I wrote to him to tell him that I had acquired the manifold and how cool it was. He told me that he was working on a new/better design and if I sent him the old one, he'd send me the new one, no extra charges or anything.

:eek: Son of a'... ;)
That was really generous of him. I guess I should have held onto that longer. Now I need to get in line with everyone else :D

I'm really interesting in seeing more reviews on this from other members.

As for the Tippmann ASA, I bought it a little over a year ago on eBay for something like $20. Not sure how readily available they are now. I never got the chance to use it but I can say it's heavy. Not bad for a budget semi-sleeper-lpr

xero28

10-07-2009, 09:11 PM

you should tap the top of that lpr/asa so you cant see the tubing.

I'm not sure where the low pressure comes from though. How could I be sure it will be LP coming from the new hold and not HP? Should it just be at the same point horizontally as the current one?

:eek: Son of a'... ;)
That was really generous of him. I guess I should have held onto that longer. Now I need to get in line with everyone else :D

:cheers:

gunman_2000

10-07-2009, 09:25 PM

wow...that does look really slick in there. I'm pretty sold on investing in one of these during the next run. The bad news is I think I might have to replace my trusty Revy.

MANN

10-07-2009, 09:26 PM

I'm not sure where the low pressure comes from though. How could I be sure it will be LP coming from the new hold and not HP? Should it just be at the same point horizontally as the current one?

:cheers:

yep. I have pictures around here somewhere of where I modified one.

Epic_Scotsman

10-07-2009, 10:50 PM

now lets see some vids

I must say that is one slick set up all you need is a trip to anno for those raw parts

Watcher

10-07-2009, 10:57 PM

That ASA is the one that came with the Tippmann 98 GTA E-Bolts.

The E-Bolts themselves are hard to find, I'd imagine the ASAs to be even harder...

xero28

10-08-2009, 12:25 AM

Got my crappy cell phone video uploaded, let's see how this goes

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I replaced the Tippmann asa and just put on a WGP LPR to see if there was any difference, I don't think I noticed too much of a difference, if any, just that it was easier to fine tune the WGP LPR. I also changed out the ULT to the standard RT on/off, I was getting some recocking issues. I don't think there's too much of a difference. I also tried to put a ball-point pen spring on the trigger rod to push the trigger back faster. Don't do it, it just hangs up and makes either the trigger or the rod stick.

Edit: By the way, can you hear that ringing after each shot? I think it's coming from my valve. Anyone have any idea what it might be from and if it's a problem?

Ando

10-08-2009, 12:34 AM

:hail: Zap :hail:

Edit: By the way, can you hear that ringing after each shot? I think it's coming from my valve. Anyone have any idea what it might be from and if it's a problem?
Best guess is your missing your bolt bumper or like we say in the helicopter world when someone asks what the hell is that noise...we respond...It's a Huey :p or in this case, it's a Automag. :D

xero28

10-08-2009, 12:52 AM

:hail: Zap :hail:

Best guess is your missing your bolt bumper or like we say in the helicopter world when someone asks what the hell is that noise...we respond...It's a Huey :p or in this case, it's a Automag. :D

I'm pretty sure the bumper is on there, maybe it's just worn down. I'll take a look at it in the morning.

Ando

10-08-2009, 01:00 AM

I'm sure it's ok.

It could be that crazy front grip humming like a tuning fork after each shot :rofl:

ZapTheMad

10-08-2009, 01:26 AM

Awesome! Cant wait to see more :headbang:

Watcher

10-08-2009, 01:46 AM

GRimm's Emag's bolt spring used to buzz/chime because it was bent slightly. Changed it for a new spring and it solved the problem...

aSpiffyMofo

10-08-2009, 08:30 AM

I like what you did with your your tippmann ASA/LPR, I didn't know of anyone else was using it. I got mine on ebay maybe 2 years ago for $20. Tried searching one today but nothing really came up. Tippmann Pro Shop bottom line regulator I think its called. Never had a problem with mine

jade_monkey07

10-08-2009, 08:48 AM

when i got the gforce frames in i spent about a week and a half scouring the forums to find one of the tippmann asa's. I did find one on the spec ops forums eventually

BigEvil

10-08-2009, 08:52 AM

Edit: By the way, can you hear that ringing after each shot? I think it's coming from my valve. Anyone have any idea what it might be from and if it's a problem?

If its the valve, check your bumper. I actually get a ringing from my nitro duck tank. Not sure what causes it.

xero28

10-08-2009, 09:01 AM

If its the valve, check your bumper. I actually get a ringing from my nitro duck tank. Not sure what causes it.

I was wondering if that might be the issue too. I'll throw another tank on there and see what happens.

xero28

10-08-2009, 10:11 AM

I'm sure it's ok.

It could be that crazy front grip humming like a tuning fork after each shot :rofl:

Believe it or not, this was actually correct! Since I was holding the phone taking video with my off hand, nothing was touching the grip. I'm also usually holding a towel or t-shirt over the barrel and feed neck to muffle the noise since I live in an apartment complex, so I don't really have a hand on the grip when I'm dry firing it. I went out this morning and changed the tank, changed the spring, still "chiming". I grabbed the grip and, lo and behold, nothing! Just one of those things. :rolleyes:

Ando

10-08-2009, 10:33 AM

I was just kidding :p Try adding a thin rubber grommet where it mounts to the rail. That should dampen the ring.

BigTrucker

10-08-2009, 09:23 PM

PING PING PING....... i bet its the bolt hitting the barrel, try it with out the barrel.

Andrew Cunje

10-09-2009, 08:34 AM

i got this when the screw on the valve or the body werent properly tightened or over tightened... i was gettign wear on teh inside top of the body because one or the other was giving enough angle to rub the top of the inside of the ule body

xero28

10-09-2009, 10:39 AM

Someone is selling a Tippmann asa/lpr over on MCB. http://www.mcarterbrown.com/forums/misc-paintball-items/94838-palmers-x7-stab-ebolt-lpr-s-parts.html He's got it going with a package, but it's worth a shot to see if he'll part it.

vf-xx

10-09-2009, 11:15 AM

Well,

Bought my cheater on an impulse buy, mostly because I was kicking myself for missing previous sales of his. Looks beautiful.

Only, it won't fit into my chimera. I don't have the tools to do a clean modification of the chimera to fit the Cheater.

I don't feel particularly comfortable modifying the Cheater to get it to fit. I don't want to ruin the part.

So that leaves me with either trying to sell / trade my chimera for something that this will fit, like a Y frame or intelli, or just sell the cheater and go with a more traditional pneu set up. :/

What other options am I missing? Suggestions any one?

xero28

10-09-2009, 11:17 AM

Send the frame and cheater back to Zap and have him do it for you. I'm sure he'll be busy with many other things, but I'm sure he would eventually be able to get yours set up. He's a really stand up guy and he wants all of his customers to be happy.

vf-xx

10-09-2009, 11:22 AM

xero28

10-09-2009, 11:30 AM

Yeah, but that means I can't use my mag at all during the interim.

This isn't meant to be a knock on him. He specifically said it was designed around the intelliframe.

I also don't really want to sink any more money in the project. I'm sure he could do it though. And judging by the work done on what I have, it'd look very nice.

Well, since you would really just need to send the frame and cheater, you could pick up another frame while it's gone. I mean, you could find a single CF frame for $10-$15 nowadays. Just a thought.

How much is the cheater off by for the Chimera? Is it a little bit or a lot?

By the way, didn't you start a new thread for this. Did it got moved here? Wierd. :confused:

vf-xx

10-09-2009, 11:38 AM

Well, since you would really just need to send the frame and cheater, you could pick up another frame while it's gone. I mean, you could find a single CF frame for $10-$15 nowadays. Just a thought.

How much is the cheater off by for the Chimera? Is it a little bit or a lot?

By the way, didn't you start a new thread for this. Did it got moved here? Wierd. :confused:

Maybe, or I could buy a Y frame, and use it, and hope I can sell it for near what I paid for it.

it's close, I can't find my calipers right now, but soon as I do I'll measure it, as Zap did say how much I could take off.

Yes I did. Beemer is being sneaky again. :ninja:

RogueFactor

10-09-2009, 12:29 PM

Hey Frank!

Dont think youll need any tools. That area isnt a spec-critical area, and its very close. But if you decide to sell the Chimera, let me know as I may have a buyer.

As Im sure you realize, I havent made Chimeras in over 2 years. So designing it for the cheater couldnt have been considered with its recent release.

During 2009, Ive been working on re-releasing the Chimera with some added features along with bringing my prices down by streamlining the product line. The new Chimeras and its features have been discussed here:

http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=2994693
http://www.pblegion.com/showthread.php?t=3473
http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=2996767

Hope that gives you some info you are looking for. ;) :D

vf-xx

10-09-2009, 12:59 PM

Yeah I know you didn't build for that. And neither did Zap. I'm not complaining. Just was hopeful and disappointed. I need to find my calipers and figure out exactly how much needs to come off.

Loguzzzzzz

10-09-2009, 01:29 PM

vf-xx

Doesn't sound like that big of a deal.

I have been interested in these Zap manifolds ever since I saw the first one on eBay years ago. I am sorry I missed the original thread or I would be waiting for my own.

I would like to offer do this fitting for you for only the cost of return shipping for the opportunity to handle one of these.

I am sure you have heard and or seen my hanid-work here and on BEO.

Here is a link to My Feedback (http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=180693&highlight=Loguzzzzzz+Feedback) just in case you need a little more information about me.

I can turn this fast so you won't have to wait long to try your new toy.

if you are interested in this offer send me a PM and I will give you my contact information.

Loguzzzzzz
:cool:

xero28

10-09-2009, 01:41 PM

vf-xx

10-09-2009, 01:41 PM

PM inbound.

RogueFactor

10-09-2009, 03:03 PM

Frank:

I did some digging around for you, and took some measurements and you really wont need to modify anything much at all.

The most you are talking about is .014", the minimum .001. That means at most youd have to remove .007" per side, the minimum .0005" per side.

Either of those could easily be removed with sandpaper. To put it in perspective 1/64 of an inch is .0156. So the amount youd need to remove from each side is very very minimal.

Hope that helps!

xero28

10-11-2009, 07:13 PM

I took a couple more videos today. Other than filing the small part on the trigger (you'll see in the video what I'm talking about) there are no modifications to the trigger (ie, stops, magnet returns, etc).

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<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/4PkrSeM3qzs&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/4PkrSeM3qzs&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Edit: I recorded the audio and tried to figure out how many cps I had. If I'm reading it right, it's up around 12-14. :shooting:

ZapTheMad

10-12-2009, 03:45 PM

A small note on the RT pin. Not sure why it's not working with RT pins, heard of 2 so far, but the extra "RT effect" could be causing the problem. Try lowering the input pressure to bring the RT effect down a bit. I think the struggle for power between the RT and the Cheater is causing it. It doesn't take much to fire but the return force on the sear is pretty heavy. The Cheater should win the battle with a little more pressure. Watch what the sear does when you fire. Hold the trigger down and see which is pushing harder. You should be able to hold the sear back with the trigger.

xero28

10-12-2009, 03:52 PM

A small note on the RT pin. Not sure why it's not working with RT pins, heard of 2 so far, but the extra "RT effect" could be causing the problem. Try lowering the input pressure to bring the RT effect down a bit. I think the struggle for power between the RT and the Cheater is causing it. It doesn't take much to fire but the return force on the sear is pretty heavy. The Cheater should win the battle with a little more pressure.

I'm running my RT on/off with my current setup (shown in the videos). I haven't had any problems with it so far, but I think I'll try it with the ULT too to see if that allows me to run lower pressures. Though, now that I think about it, I had shaved down the pin a while back, so it is shorter than the standard .750 pin.

ZapTheMad

10-12-2009, 03:58 PM

I'm running my RT on/off with my current setup (shown in the videos). I haven't had any problems with it so far, but I think I'll try it with the ULT too to see if that allows me to run lower pressures. Though, now that I think about it, I had shaved down the pin a while back, so it is shorter than the standard .750 pin.

Oh, I thought you mentioned that it was having re-cocking issues. ULT will definitely bring it down.

Edit: Nevermind, you were talking about the ULT, not the RT. You'll just have to fiddle with that. You will get it dialed in. If you think you can rip on it now just wait till you get the ULT running.