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View Full Version : Most Inane use of Lawyers I have seen...



jeffremiller
10-09-2009, 02:43 PM
I tried to sell my A5 on ebay a few days ago. Auction was going to close tonight when it suddenly disappeared. I checked my messages and found this:

Now I realize it was probably my mistake for saying MP5 style stock & foregrip but for Pete's sake!!!

Anyone want a cheap MPx style A5? :rolleyes:

180416918925 - Tippmann A5 with RT Kit,
collapsable stock and extras


The listing was removed because it violated eBay
policy.



The rights owner or an agent authorized to act
on behalf of the rights owner, Heckler & Koch,
notified eBay that this listing violates
intellectual property rights. When eBay receives
a report of this type of violation, we remove
the listing to comply with the law.


The rights owner reported the following
information:


Your auction has been terminated because the
Tippmann X7, A5, X36 Special Ops and/or other
brand conversion/modification kits and or
paintball markers being advertised for sale by
you is used exclusively for the purpose of
creating an unlicensed paintball replica of the
H&K MP5®, G36® and/or UMP®. The H&K MP5®, G36®
and/or UMP® designation and shape are the sole
property of H&K and may not be used without its
permission. Heckler and Koch does NOT license
any manufacturer to make any modification kits
and/or marker guns that would replicate any
Heckler and Koch weapons. H&K vigorously
protects their trademarks and intellectual
property at all levels.
Trademark infringement is unlawful and violates
eBay's policies. A trademark is a unique sign
(such as a name, word, phrase, logo, or symbol)
that a company uses to identify its products
and/or services.

Using another company's trademark in a way that
may confuse buyers about the source of goods or
services, or confuses buyers into believing that
the seller is affiliated with, sponsored by or
endorsed by the trademark owner is both illegal
and against eBay's policies. Examples include
counterfeits, unauthorized replica items and
items that bear the brand or logo of a company
without that company's permission.

Guideline: If the product you are listing bears
the brand or logo of a company, but it wasn't
made or authorized by that company, don't sell
it on eBay.

Using a trademark without the trademark owner's
permission infringes trademark law. For this
reason, eBay prohibits members listing items
which bear a another's trademark but are not
authorized by that trademark owner.

For more information, please visit the following
Help page:

http://pages.ebay.com/help/tp/trademark.html

You may need to take a tutorial. The next time
you sell, you may be asked to take the tutorial,
if it's required. Once you've completed the
tutorial successfully, please review your
account status for any other possible concerns.
If there are no other issues, you should be able
to sell again.

To take the intellectual property tutorial,
please visit:

http://pages.ebay.com/help/tutorial/verotutorial/intro.html

Please be aware that any additional violations
of this policy may result in the suspension of
your account. eBay understands that you may be
concerned about this situation.We encourage you
to contact Heckler & Koch directly if you have
any questions.

Frizzle Fry
10-09-2009, 02:51 PM
HK has been out for blood lately, especially with airsoft companies. Their beef with Tippmann started about a year when they discovered the fire selector swtich on the X-7 was a violation of their patent... Then they realized that "G36" shrouds and "MP5" foregrips were commonplace in paintball, and all were using their name unlawfully.

Go the easy route: MP7 = TM7 by BT.

How hard is it to switch a letter? Your "G36" becomes a "schmee schmirty schmix" :p

jeffremiller
10-09-2009, 02:58 PM
Or I guess I could take the Un*x example and use MP* style.

But notice their comment about trademarked shape...

zondo
10-09-2009, 03:14 PM
Your auction has been terminated because the
Tippmann X7, A5, X36 Special Ops and/or other
brand conversion/modification kits and or
paintball markers being advertised for sale by
you is used exclusively for the purpose of
creating an unlicensed paintball replica of the
H&K MP5®, G36® and/or UMP®. The H&K MP5®, G36®
and/or UMP® designation and shape are the sole
property of H&K and may not be used without its
permission. Heckler and Koch does NOT license
any manufacturer to make any modification kits
and/or marker guns that would replicate any
Heckler and Koch weapons. H&K vigorously
protects their trademarks and intellectual
property at all levels.
Trademark infringement is unlawful and violates
eBay's policies. A trademark is a unique sign
(such as a name, word, phrase, logo, or symbol)
that a company uses to identify its products
and/or services.


This almost sounds like you can't sell it period because the Tippmann products listed violate H&K's trademark design, not just using the name in the description.

jeffremiller
10-09-2009, 03:49 PM
And on top of that, given H&K's complaint, I reviewed eBay policy and found the following:

It's actually against the law to sell "fakes" of popular brand names. Selling "fakes" or "replicas" violates trademark laws, even if you label your item as a fake. This is because "fakes" take advantage of a famous brand name and reduces sales of the real product. Manufacturers care about this because when someone violates a trademark this way, it reduces the sales of the real product.


Note that H&K stated that no replicas are allowed.

teufelhunden
10-09-2009, 04:06 PM
Oh, right, this is paintball, IP is not allowed. No matter what. It's inane to protect what one has created, duh.


:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

jeffremiller
10-09-2009, 06:30 PM
Oh... Yes teufelhunden... I feel so sorry for H&K...

I expect Glock to try to pull all Clocks from ebay because they could cause brand confusion...

WTF??!!??

Stop the insanity...



Oh, right, this is paintball, IP is not allowed. No matter what. It's inane to protect what one has created, duh.


:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Will Wood
10-09-2009, 09:04 PM
:tard:

So a company is making something you believe is copying your trademark/patent .. and you go after Joe Blow selling it on ebay?

Sounds like they can't get anything against the Tippmann. Why bother with ebay? The money is already in Tippmanns hands. This doesn't hurt the company that is doing them "wrong" if you could even call it that.

insixdays777
10-09-2009, 09:54 PM
That is wild. I cant believe they would even be looking at an individuals ebay postings. I cant imagine what they are doing to tippmann behind the scenes.

WenULiVeUdiE
10-10-2009, 12:09 AM
Oh, right, this is paintball, IP is not allowed. No matter what. It's inane to protect what one has created, duh.


:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Completely agree with you, but "insixdays" is also right. It's just surprising a cease and desist was sent to an individual this time.

wetwrks
10-10-2009, 12:26 AM
That is wild. I cant believe they would even be looking at an individuals ebay postings.

Odds are H&K isn't monitoring individual listings. They spot one and their lawyer sends a letter to ebay. Ebay monitors most if not all their listings and flags the ones like this.

I had something similar go on. I was selling an antique railroad lock and key. It got pulled as it is a key for transportation and involves security. Never mind that it is LONG out of use.

I am supprised we can still sell paintguns on ebay. They have been gradually moving farther and farther towards banning anything weapon related.

Frizzle Fry
10-10-2009, 12:35 AM
I am supprised we can still sell paintguns on ebay. They have been gradually moving farther and farther towards banning anything weapon related.

I built an entire Mini30 on Ebay last year, sans firing pin and reciever parts... About 90% was there, though :cool:

MoeMag
10-10-2009, 01:14 AM
:rolleyes:
Wow.

Reiner
10-10-2009, 10:56 AM
What I don't understand is why they are doing this at all? Does H&K feel their sales of real guns decreases because people buy paintball look-alikes?

Seems to me if anything this is advertising for them.

Hilltop Customs
10-10-2009, 11:38 AM
They have a image to maintain, paintball markers that are not produced by them could degrade that image in 2 ways.....if the markers are not quality that could reflect badly upon their name, and second they probably don't want their name associated with "toys".

It is odd they went after a private sale though. Probably because ebay has complete control over the sale and is known to be non-protective of its customers and is willing to bend over any time a legal issue is smelled in the wind.

WenULiVeUdiE
10-10-2009, 07:46 PM
In addition to what Hilltop stated, what would happen to H&K's image (or the firearms' industry) if someone were to commit a crime with a replica paintball gun? They have no control over that and this is the best they can do....

jeffremiller
10-10-2009, 08:55 PM
That's crap!!! I don't see stone quarry people telling me I can't sell a rock because someone may throw one and it would be confused with one of theirs...

The whole idea is stupid and assumes that people are stupid.

It all comes down to my original message... Shakespeare was right!!!

First thing we do is kill all the Lawyers!

Why don't I see Gerber sending notes like this to stop people selling knives?



In addition to what Hilltop stated, what would happen to H&K's image (or the firearms' industry) if someone were to commit a crime with a replica paintball gun? They have no control over that and this is the best they can do....

jeffremiller
10-10-2009, 08:58 PM
Don't get me wrong... I respect Intellectual Property.... I just don't respect abuse of IP laws.

This kind of crap is what killed the eMag...

teufelhunden
10-11-2009, 08:08 AM
Don't get me wrong... I respect Intellectual Property.... I just don't respect abuse of IP laws.

This kind of crap is what killed the eMag...

It's not an abuse. It's the same thing as Coach or Prada telling the police about some shop in Chinatown that's selling fake purses. They're looking for enforcement on the sellers. That's you in this case.

Just re-list the gun and call it a milsim sub machine gun. Everybody will know what they're looking at.