Miniature High Pressure Air Compressor for Tank Refills?? [Archive]

AGD

10-15-2009, 08:52 PM

All,

We were discussing today the possibility of a very small (and hopefully cheap) air compressor that could fill your tank to 4500 psi. The downside is that it would take over night to do it. This we think is similar to recharging a battery etc.

So the question is, if there was a reasonably priced air compressor the size of a pocket camera would it be something you would buy if it took over night to fill?? It would probably plug in the wall.

AGD

MntlHazrd

10-15-2009, 08:56 PM

For a reasonable price i would be interested. It would not be something i intend to use for a day of playing backyard ball but it would be great for those times when i am at home troubleshooting and maintaining my markers and havent had a chance to top off my tanks before i left the field. The other advantage would be to top off my tank before i get to the field to eliminate one extra step i would need to take to help get me on the field faster.

SCpoloRicker

10-15-2009, 09:06 PM

I'd probably spend $50-75, particularly if it could be regulated down to 3k for scuba tanks.

Beemer

10-15-2009, 09:07 PM

Ha and no chance of a slam fill? I'll take Two[2] whats your paypal?

DevilMan

10-15-2009, 09:11 PM

Like everything else price dependent I'm very interested. As it stands I have enough tanks that all of them filled would last me a day and some change of play. So yeah, I'd love to be able to plug into the house and fill my tanks. Auto shut off at desired PSI or timer on it and such and I'd love to have one to work with.

Mr. AGD brings this up? Me thinks he dropped the DB and Dino stuff for a minute! WOOT WOOT!!!! Let's see what ya got Tom!

DM

BigEvil

10-15-2009, 09:17 PM

How about one that is bigger, but reasonably sized that can fill a bottle faster?

Smoothice

10-15-2009, 09:19 PM

How long to fill a scuba tank up?

It costs me $4.50 to fill my scuba tank.

I can't even imagine how something that small could fill to that pressure. But i'm glad you can ;)

Nick28

10-15-2009, 09:22 PM

I have two tanks that get me thru a case of paint with my mag no problem so two nights before I'll fill up and be ready to go. Plus having air around when you need to tinker with your level 10 never hurts either.

matteusz

10-15-2009, 09:22 PM

I would rather have it double sized and be able to fill a scuba tank or two tanks both linked to it.

The problem with one tank is it just isn't enough for a full day of play. If it could fill two or three I think friends could go in on one etc.

I would buy one for the right price. I have a 600$ booster and think it was definitely worth the money.

Beemer

10-15-2009, 09:41 PM

How about one that is bigger, but reasonably sized that can fill a bottle faster?

Fast costs more, how much you wanna spend?

Question, what would it cost me to buy what I need to do a 4500psi fill now? Even if it took fifteen minutes or more.

ezcreation

10-15-2009, 09:44 PM

I would in a heart beat. Always been looking for one

Spider-TW

10-15-2009, 09:53 PM

I would love one. I can think of lots of other things that I could use it for also.

The liability of the unattended operation might be difficult though. :argh:

axpkai

10-15-2009, 10:06 PM

That would be awesome!! Yes, it would be useful

Will Wood

10-15-2009, 10:47 PM

How long to fill a scuba tank up?

It costs me $4.50 to fill my scuba tank.

I can't even imagine how something that small could fill to that pressure. But i'm glad you can ;)

Not to derail but..

4.50 .. jeez! I can get my tank filled with Nitrox for 50 cents more!

xero28

10-15-2009, 11:16 PM

:clap: I'm all for it. As has been said by many, as long as the price is reasonable. I'm thinking sub-$75, considering a scuba fill (to 3k) is $3, and I can fill my HP tank 10-15 times with that before I'm down to around 1.2k or so. I wouldn't mind it being even the size of a small radio and filling 2-3 times faster if that is a possibility. Maybe being able to run it off of a cig lighter in the car so you can fill one tank at least a little bit while the other is being used. Can't wait to see where this one goes. :cheers:

punkncat

10-15-2009, 11:27 PM

To me it would depend on price and upkeep, noise, etc.

I keep a couple of SCUBA tanks around with air for tooling on markers and such. It would be nice to have something like that for a backyard game day so that I could start out with a full tank without a trip to the store first.

Beemer

10-15-2009, 11:32 PM

Note first word in thread title....................Miniature. ;)

Ratt

10-15-2009, 11:42 PM

I would LOVE to have something like this. it is a 40 min drive to civilization, and I hate doing it just to fill my tanks. Not to mention, they are currently out of hydro, so no one will fill them. I don't want to spend the money on an expensive way to fill them. I don't even want to spend the money on a scuba tank. But if I could spend less than $100 on a machine that will fill a tank, I wouldn't mind if it took all night to do it. Please build it...I will buy it.

BenoitOWN

10-15-2009, 11:50 PM

I would buy one of those if price is right.

Smoothice

10-15-2009, 11:56 PM

Not to derail but..

4.50 .. jeez! I can get my tank filled with Nitrox for 50 cents more!

How does your mag shoot on nitrox? :p

wetwrks

10-16-2009, 12:01 AM

So when is the sale thread going up? :D

Watcher

10-16-2009, 12:21 AM

What about the noise factor?

All day buzzing away would get fairly annoying if the tank wasn't in a garage or something.

I would use it to boost my tanks. When I get off of work I usually fill them, but my 45 cools to about 35 by the time I get home. It'd be nice to plug the tank in and when I get back from dinner have it topped off.

ZapTheMad

10-16-2009, 01:41 AM

Even if it was one fill per day it still beats taking it down to get filled. Need something a little bigger that could fill a scuba too!

Skoad

10-16-2009, 01:42 AM

As long as it didn't make a hellacious racket....

p8ntbal4me

10-16-2009, 05:13 AM

Yeah that was my first concern,.. the noise factor.

The second Tom was operational cost.... what does it take to fill a tank over night in electrical costs?

Just some thoughts,.....

~ P8nt

mpsd

10-16-2009, 05:22 AM

Tom,

I would buy one for sure! The only three points that I would be concerned are:

- Can I also limit the fill to go up to 3000 psi? This way I could leave it working for a couple of days and fill my smaller scuba tank as well. Or even sell the scuba and fill the smaller PSI tanks directly, which should be faster.
- It's noise when working. If I'm going to leave it working overnight, that would need to be really silent since I live in an apartment.
- It would have to have some sort of safety feature that would automatically shut it off when it reaches the desired pressure, so you won't explode your tank while sleaping (can you imagine that!?)

I'm so happy to see that you still think about paintball after all these years, thinking about new gun designs and speacially this. Please, keep doing it LOL Your products are the BEST ever in the industry so anything that comes from you is top notch for sure!

:cheers:

TwilightG

10-16-2009, 06:08 AM

I think it's a great idea!!!

However, not too sure if the rest of the pb community would jump to get one. I assume that most of us top off our tanks at the field before we leave.
As a result, there wouldn't be a huge demand for this... except for all of us tinkerers ;)

A lot of Mag owners here are always working on their next "project" marker. It doesn't take me long to empty a full tank when I'm testing equipment and chrono'ing in my backyard. (not too many common players own a chronograph either, but that's a different story ;))

I think this would also be valuable for renegade/outlaw players who don't have the luxury of unlimited air at a commercial field.

As others have mentioned, I guess it would ultimately come down to price. While many of us here would be willing to pay more, the common player may not.

insixdays777

10-16-2009, 06:38 AM

Wow. Amazing. I would buy one. What a great idea. It would be great for us basement "tinkers".

Lohman446

10-16-2009, 06:51 AM

Great for tinkerers is right. What about outlaw ballers that shoot 500 rounds a day or so? It works there too. While I don't think it would do much for most of the agglets I see a distinct use for this to help with those who play outlaw rec. No more "mommy take me to ______ for CO2". Same demographic aim as the Tippman propane thing. Considering Tippmans new marker we saw pictures of there might be a strong market, I wonder how that thing is going to work with CO2.

Gadget

10-16-2009, 07:00 AM

I'd be interested in one, provided it can take a 240v feed as well as 100v :)

Would mean I could offload my dive tank & fill station.

going_home

10-16-2009, 08:06 AM

If its an AGD product I'd have to have one but all night to fill one tank isn't really practical.
I'd still use my 3000psi scuba tank on game day.

;)

Stayhuge

10-16-2009, 08:15 AM

Count me in if you come up with something :cheers:

SSP REAPER

10-16-2009, 08:38 AM

I'd buy one :D
maybe like BigEvil said "Can it be a bit bigger to fill quicker?" I'm game :p

fishmishin

10-16-2009, 08:45 AM

I want one !!!!!!
I work at a store and get free fills, but I would still love to be able to fill tanks at home for when I'm tinkering. It also sounds a lot better than having to use a bicycle style pump, unless your trying to burn some calories or something, lol.

Lohman446

10-16-2009, 08:46 AM

Could you fill a scuba tank in.. say a week? Seriously, I see an application there for the weekend baller.

Beemer

10-16-2009, 09:01 AM

When I get off of work I usually fill them, but my 45 cools to about 35 by the time I get home.

Thats cause they arent filling it right.

chafnerjr

10-16-2009, 09:03 AM

You can count me in... I might even by two if it were to ever exist... more importantly think about what this might do to paintball...

The ability to run fully homegrown HPA!!! It would be a fantastic return to backwoods/home grown paintball again. I love my field don't get me wrong but put that air in my basement and we'll be seeing much more backyard paintball. If a small compressor can fill a 4500 (assuming 70ci range?) it should fill a 3000 PSI SCUBA tank... I mean pressure is pressure, and volume is time. It would take a whole lot longer (a week?) to fill a SCUBA tank but really any compressor capable of that kind of pressure would be fine. Now, assuming that it's very inexpensive you'd have to make sure you didn't overfill your 3k SCUBA tank... but thats a personal issue.

Like I said, I'll take 2. AGD, if you want to bring paintball back to the good ol' days this could be a fantastic way to do it. At home HPA fills :eek:

Spider-TW

10-16-2009, 09:55 AM

Could you fill a scuba tank in.. say a week? Seriously, I see an application there for the weekend baller.
That's what I was thinking. Even if it doesn't have electronic pressure (2k,3k,4.5k) and time controls (like running while you're not home), you could put it on an outlet timer.

Stack some of my spare regs up on the scuba tank and I have my weekend shop air. I usually don't get to play in the garage and on the field in the same weekend anyway. :cry:

Lohman446

10-16-2009, 10:02 AM

I doubt TK would make this without some sort of safety device on it, and likely the ability to adjust to 3K as well

Spider-TW

10-16-2009, 10:11 AM

I doubt TK would make this without some sort of safety device on it, and likely the ability to adjust to 3K as well
For sure. I'm just counting up the other ways I could use (justify) one. I have an old air brush compressor connected to a 5 gallon transport tank with an auto shutoff and unloader. It's a mess and less than 40 psi, but very useful sometimes. More uses means I can spend more money on a high pressure version. :ninja:

Wicked-Vengence

10-16-2009, 10:36 AM

Add me in, I'd take two.

3k Limiter would be nice but I'd be happy with anything. I hate when I'm down to 500PSI on the Scuba, projects to tinker with and no time to get it filled.

sunshaker

10-16-2009, 10:50 AM

Yes. I'll take one. Limiting to 3k would be a bonus.

Wrathbringer

10-16-2009, 12:02 PM

I'd definitely take one! I'm starting to tinker with my guns a lot more now and I'm going through a lot of air, and the shop is a little out of my way so I'd buy this simply out of convenience sake.

Once I finish my pnuemag I'll also be going through a lot of air dry firing so this would keep me going with that for a while... :D

Big'n slo

10-16-2009, 12:06 PM

http://www.pyramydair.com/images/acc/Logun-Pumpnoacc.jpg

Quiet, small and it'll take all night to fill :D

:cheers:

Now connect this to the flywheel of an ole hit or miss engine and viola!

Stayhuge

10-16-2009, 12:21 PM

http://www.pyramydair.com/images/acc/Logun-Pumpnoacc.jpg

Quiet, small and it'll take all night to fill :D

:cheers:

Now connect this to the flywheel of an ole hit or miss engine and viola!

Do those hand pumps actually work? I heard it takes a long time, but does work.

Big'n slo

10-16-2009, 12:37 PM

Do those hand pumps actually work? I heard it takes a long time, but does work.

http://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2006/03/3000-psi-hand-pump.html

Little review on it

To destroy pump

No. 2: This takes several pumping sessions, but is easy to do in less than one month. Don't allow your pump to cool down for 15 minutes after every five minutes of pumping! You will burn the high-temperature packing (the deepest seal in the pump!) and probably crack the brass fitting that holds it. The outward symptoms are a pump handle that refuses to stay down

rawbutter

10-16-2009, 01:32 PM

Question, what would it cost me to buy what I need to do a 4500psi fill now? Even if it took fifteen minutes or more.

I've wondered this myself. You need an industrial air compressor. You can find used 6000psi compressors for less than $1,000 if you're patient enough. Brand new, however, they're REALLY expensive. We're talking multiple thousands of dollars. And they're LOUD. You don't want to run it when you're in the house.

If you had a mini compressor that could fill one tank in a day.... I could see spending $100-$200 on something like that considering how much money it would save me in the long run. However, I'm having a problem envisioning how such a thing would be possible. Most $100 compressors can only go up to 100 psi or so. :(

Smoothice

10-16-2009, 01:50 PM

However, I'm having a problem envisioning how such a thing would be possible. Most $100 compressors can only go up to 100 psi or so. :(

If TK can create the world in 6 days this should be a piece of cake. Or is it pie? :D

skipdogg

10-16-2009, 02:08 PM

Yes, I am interested and would most likly get one depending on the price. Its good for not having to run to the field for a fill if you need to 'test' a gun. Also you wouldnt need to 'top off' at the field before you go. I usually do this, but then I dont end up playing for a couple weeks, and really dislike having a fully presurized tank laying around for longer than a week or two. I prefer to have them empty when not playing soon. Also, I could fill up the night before i play so im ready to go in the morning. And finally, I usually play pump, so I wouldnt need an air fill at the field all day. great idea.

Watcher

10-16-2009, 05:36 PM

Thats cause they arent filling it right.

No, it is because I am filling the tank quickly and then taking it out into the cold Chicago air...

We don't have a booster or a whip, so we need to stage 3 bulk tanks to fill HPA. It takes long enough to switch the fill station between the 3, so I usually just crank and go.

Smoothice

10-16-2009, 05:52 PM

No, it is because I am filling the tank quickly and then taking it out into the cold Chicago air...

We don't have a booster or a whip, so we need to stage 3 bulk tanks to fill HPA. It takes long enough to switch the fill station between the 3, so I usually just crank and go.

I think what he is trying to say is the slower you fill it the better.

I know I read a thread somewhere talking about that. It said something about how it should take a few minutes to fill a tank...

I always try to go as slow as i can when I fill. And that is usually 20 seconds tops. And by then the line of guys behind me is getting antsy.

Sumthinwicked

10-16-2009, 06:16 PM

interesting ....

Ebbed

10-16-2009, 08:38 PM

did this ever happen? I would buy one FOR SURE!

ZapTheMad

10-16-2009, 08:51 PM

I don't think an overnight fill would stop people from buying them. Everyone hates paying for air. Price is why more people don't have a compressor. If you could get these down around $100 they would sell like crazy.

kylejc9

10-16-2009, 09:15 PM

At my field we get free air for life if you buy the tank from them, but I would still like for those times I want to test fire at home, its a 45min drive to the field...

going_home

10-16-2009, 09:47 PM

If TK can create the world in 6 days this should be a piece of cake. Or is it pie? :D

C'mon man. You know better than that.
Cake is inferior. And TK dont make no inferior.

IT IS PIE !

:clap:

greezypete

10-17-2009, 11:44 AM

mmmmmmm pie

anyway , I think this would be huge in my area. The fields here dont have compressors. One of them uses scuba tank for HPA and if the player count is high it runs low pretty fast. If these were available I think most of the guys with Hpa would get one to at least start the day off with a full tank , instead of everyone showing up with empty tanks and devistating the scuba tanks from the start.

RossT

10-17-2009, 12:32 PM

This is a Luxfer 106 tank. It is the same size as 80 cu ft ones but holds 4350 psi instead of 3000. It will fill a 50cu in tank to 3,000 about 8-10 times and give another 6-8 fills before it drops below 2,000. It is usually good for 4-6 people playing all day. I would love to see a small compressor, about the size of a shoebox, be made that could fill these overnight or in a couple days.

http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/4849/photo015cr.th.jpg (http://img193.imageshack.us/i/photo015cr.jpg/)

punkncat

10-17-2009, 03:22 PM

The more I think about this, the better an idea it seems to be.

Set up with a fill line, and of the type of duty to fill, say a 68/45 in a few hours. With the efficency that the newest markers are getting, and .50 cal looming on the horizon, this might be the right part at the right place and time kind of thing.
Considering that the mass of players are still paintballing in the woods next to the house, the availabilty of a safe "overnight" fill could be just the thing to really open up possibilities.

splat15k

10-17-2009, 03:55 PM

I love this idea! Like others have mentioned, the important factors are noise, the initial cost of the equipment, and the cost of operating it. If two of the three factors are deemed satisfactory, I will buy one.

Keep up the good work, Tom! :cheers:

Ratzo

10-17-2009, 10:06 PM

I'd definitely be interested if it would fill to 4500psi.
For once I'd like to take full advantage of my 4500 tanks.
I'd use it to top up my tanks from the 3000psi that my scuba tank leaves them at and what I'd be leaving the field with.

the123

10-17-2009, 11:22 PM

I'm all in. Sounds like a great backyard baller solution for fills. This will/would be even better when/if .50 cal paintballs come to market.

paintball72

10-18-2009, 12:59 AM

you can count me in

JKR

10-18-2009, 04:38 AM

I would also be very interested in something like this. I am 45 min from getting a HPA fill (which costs me $6 BTW) and play a great deal of renegade ball so this would be perfect. I know several of the guys I play with would also be interested in this idea.

luke

10-18-2009, 11:23 AM

Tom,

What could you build for $1000 retail (Or there about)?

Any team and many players would be interested in such a compressor. When I was playing all the time I would have jumped on the opportunity to get one at that price and would still purchase one even though I don’t really play anymore.

Having air handy would likely get me back in the game. For many players "air" has always been a huge problem. It’s currently a 250 mile round trip to fill SKUBA tanks here in Cottonwood, CO2 sucks and compressed air in "shop" bottles suck and is expensive in the long run.

It’s a product that could be marketed to all players and quite frankly should have been done 10 years ago at least. It’s definitely not too late for such a product. I just don’t think a “personal” compressor is correct the route. It should be able to fill a SKUBA tank in a reasonable amount of time.

I'll gladly prepay to get on board. :)

snoopay700

10-18-2009, 01:20 PM

Talk about an awesome birthday gift! (this was posted on my birthday) I haven't read the thread due to lack of time but i'd buy one if it could be adjusted for 3000 as well.

kwood

10-18-2009, 03:40 PM

i would be interested
even if the price was in the 100-250 range
i think people would still buy it since that is still cheaper, than buying scubas tanks, having them tested regularly, buying the fill yolk for paintball tanks, driving out to the shop to have it filled, and paying the cash
a personal compressor that could fill a 68/45 in a couple hours is a great idea and i think people would be all over it

ElPanda

10-18-2009, 04:01 PM

I would buy one in a heartbeat

I have an air rifle pump that can do up to 3k but that thing is a pain to use after about 10 minutes, plus it doesnt have a water trap so I dont really use it

Dewok82

10-18-2009, 06:03 PM

I would definitely be interested in something like this. Not everyone lives within a reasonable driving distance of a location that can fill paintball tanks.

AGDRetro

10-18-2009, 08:16 PM

I'd love to have one at my workbench!

tribalman

10-18-2009, 08:41 PM

i'd be up for one of these ! especially the 4500 model. i hate leaving the fields with only 3k to tinker with. i'd be up for one of these, especially the 4500 model, as long as the operating cost isn't that high and the noise isn't that high.

JKR

10-18-2009, 10:05 PM

I was talking with a friend tonight about this and he was interested too. I think this would probably get more than a few CO2 users to convert the HPA since fills in rural America can be hard to come by.

Brilliant idea TK! Can I pre-order?!

kenjay

10-18-2009, 10:46 PM

I assume such a product would be at least months and months away from production. But oh yeah, I'm in depending on price. If it's ~$100, i feel a lot of people would be getting in on this. I'd have to assume you're looking at maybe 50cents MAX per fill instead of $4. Plus the savings on gas for traveling to and from the shop/field. Well worth it.

AGD

10-19-2009, 12:43 AM

JKR

10-19-2009, 04:16 AM

Lohman446

10-19-2009, 06:48 AM

Raven001

10-19-2009, 07:22 AM

For me, the $250 ish price point is ok but the 30 hr fill time is not that attractive. Overnight would certainly be better. How much electricity would this use up per hour?

The other point is what are the legal liabilities for the producer of the product if some agghole tries to fill a tank that is defective or banged up and hurts themselves?

kwood

10-19-2009, 08:04 AM

The other point is what are the legal liabilities for the producer of the product if some agghole tries to fill a tank that is defective or banged up and hurts themselves?

i thought this too
30 hours seems a little much but if you could fill multiple tanks (2-3) in that time, i would consider that more reasonable

AGD

10-19-2009, 09:30 AM

ElPanda

10-19-2009, 09:39 AM

I think that your price point is fine considering the only other options players have is investing hundreds in scuba equipment, or thousands in a full fledged multi staged compressor

at that price I would deffinetly purchase one just because of the convenience

Wicked-Vengence

10-19-2009, 10:03 AM

Still think it's great. Would definitely pick some up.

warpfeedmod

10-19-2009, 10:14 AM

Tom have you looked (or maybe that's what your looking at) the motors used in Nitro RC cars? They get some pretty decent compression and for the price might be able to be modified (or a bigger version) to do what you need.

DevilMan

10-19-2009, 10:14 AM

I would say something in the lunch box sized area would be ideal. I think the electricity part isn't bad either. Sounds like it'd be no worse in that aspect than leaving a light on when you went on vacation.

The price point will make it a bit less appealing to me, but more than likely I would still get one just to have.

I know it's not your responsibility and I DO NOT want to poo poo this idea, but I also would not like to see you get into this deep only to get crucified later. Having this would allow those folks who have tanks out of hydro as well as damaged ones to pose a serious risk to their family, friends, neighbors, etc. Now I'm all for they need to know what they are doing and still follow the rules, but you and I both know that will only last so long. Would hate for some kid to be filling his "friends" bottle in his room or something just to have something pop, go through the wall at 3 AM and injure or kill another man/woman/child/etc in the next room.

I would love to see this product Tom. But would hate to see you be at the receiving end of a witch hunt.

DM

Smoothice

10-19-2009, 10:34 AM

I'm sure a simple disclaimer on the device somewhere would protect Tom legally. Wouldn't protect some idiot from blowing himself up though...

:cheers: to Survival of the fittest :D

Smoothice

10-19-2009, 10:40 AM

1 time per year I have to pay for a visual inspection on my scuba tank = $45 or so

Each fill = $4.50 (if I buy the 10 fill card which is $45.00)

I don't use that much air to tinker lately as I am getting better at it. But I will easily spend $200 in the next 3 years just having my tank inspected and hydro'ed again... Not even considering air.

Tom- I realize you are building these for actual tanks. And if a 80ci tank takes 30 hours to fill.

Could this product be used to fill a scuba tank? Would any damage occur to the product if this product ran for 3 or 4 days straight filling a scuba? Will this product have a 3000 psi option for those filling both 4500 psi and 3000 psi tanks?

Wrathbringer

10-19-2009, 10:41 AM

30 hours isn't really that bad especially if you're only tinkering. Besides, let's say you set it right before you go to bed (~11, for example), you probably won't be using that tank until you get back from work or school, which will be about 6 the next day. That's 19 hours of charging that will probably be enough for plenty of tinkering and, depending on the size of the tank, possibly even a half day of game time. It's really not as bad as everyone thinks...

BTW Tom if you can set it to 3k fills that would be great, but if it could fill two or more tanks that would be amazing!

k0m0d067

10-19-2009, 02:10 PM

I'd definately be interested :dance:

MANN

10-19-2009, 02:28 PM

1 time per year I have to pay for a visual inspection on my scuba tank = $45 or so

WOW that is high. vis inspections are 15.00 here (just had 2 of my tanks done 2 weeks ago)

a scuba fill option would be nice. I have 6 tanks and it sucks paying for hydros and VIs.

BrewNinja

10-19-2009, 02:57 PM

Id be down for this if you went the supply your own motor route. That way depending on what motor you buy, the faster it would be. You could also offer a motor along with it for people who dont want it. The scuba shop by me charges $6 for a 3500psi fill on my 68/45 tank. The paintball store 30min away charges $4.50 for a 4500 fill, but they are idiots and it never ends up higher than 3500psi.

I think this could be a great idea!

Tesko

10-19-2009, 03:00 PM

Hell yes, I'd be all over one.

LudavicoSoldier

10-19-2009, 03:06 PM

I'd be interested in one!

AzrealDarkmoonZ

10-19-2009, 03:06 PM

Get it around the 250 price point and assuming its quality I would probably buy one.

After all I have almost that much in a single hopper.

hmcl281

10-19-2009, 03:49 PM

i would buy one, if the price range was under 300. i would use my scuba to fill and use the compressor to top it off with. i could see a very high demand for these since there r people out there that r no were near a field or scuba shop to get their air filled.

Draken

10-19-2009, 04:00 PM

I would be all over this, esp if the price is under $300

LK-13

10-19-2009, 04:13 PM

I might be able to cut it down to 24 hours but probably not to 12 hours for an 80 cu inch tank. Each piston has a LOT of pressure on it during the compression stroke so the motor gets bigger quickly and things like heat build up come into play. Faster will always mean more expensive.

The other option is that I sell just the compressor without the motor. You hook up your own via a pulley and fan belt.

The components would have to be rebuildable with average hand tools. One of the big problems with high pressure compressors is the wear and tear.

The electrical consumption will be minimal. Something like a 100 watt light bulb.

AGD
rather like the idea of the DIY motor,
but what would the RPM need to be limited to?
i mean I know where i can get a 10hp gas motor for $100.00CND
so if i had a pump that i could just hook via belt...
WOOHOO!!

Deadmeat99

10-19-2009, 04:13 PM

Sounds good, sign me up.

caylegeorge

10-19-2009, 06:11 PM

This is a concern, people filling out of date tanks. Or people filling the wrong pressure bottle to 4500psi.

I think it is a great idea but there could be some safety concerns.

-cAyle

I would LOVE to have something like this. it is a 40 min drive to civilization, and I hate doing it just to fill my tanks. Not to mention, they are currently out of hydro, so no one will fill them. I don't want to spend the money on an expensive way to fill them. I don't even want to spend the money on a scuba tank. But if I could spend less than $100 on a machine that will fill a tank, I wouldn't mind if it took all night to do it. Please build it...I will buy it.

sunfisher89

10-19-2009, 07:29 PM

xero28

10-19-2009, 07:41 PM

This is a concern, people filling out of date tanks. Or people filling the wrong pressure bottle to 4500psi.

I think it is a great idea but there could be some safety concerns.

-cAyle

Sure there could be safety concerns, but so is running and diving around the woods with a 4500 psi bomb tucked beneath your shoulder.

What's the difference with someone who fills an out of hydro tank off of a scuba? The scuba shop isn't going to check to see if the HP tanks are in hydro, just the scuba tank. If the HP tank blows up, could they sue the scuba shop for filling the scuba tank? Of course not. I really don't see any legal issues Tom should be worried about with this product. If someone wants to risk their own lives by doing something with a tank they're not supposed to, then survival of the fittest (or smartest).

Keep up the good work Tom. :cheers:

Enemy

10-19-2009, 08:02 PM

It is a great idea, at that price point size really wouldnt be an issue so making it bigger while not sacrificing price couldnt hurt at all.

kwood

10-19-2009, 08:07 PM

sounds like you have your answer TK
if its under $300
has an option to fill 3k or 4500
and is relatively small (lunch box was the example i believe)
people will buy it
im in :cheers:

onecaribou

10-19-2009, 08:30 PM

Just wanted to say I think this is a fantastic idea and that I'd pay a good deal for the system as described.

mpsd

10-19-2009, 08:51 PM

I'd get one for sure. I'd also preffer to buy it all, ready to use from you, then trying to find, install and tune my own motor. And if you can provide an estimated MTBF for the main parts and some kind of parts kit, along with a good manual, that would be a hit!

XM15

10-19-2009, 09:20 PM

I wish I had one right now.

skipdogg

10-19-2009, 10:34 PM

Still in for under $300, and has the reliability/quality of other AGD products. Want it to come with motor though, I don't want to mess around with getting my own. Also, I'm curious who the 'we' is from Tom's first post. Who are you talking to about this? Zupe?

AGD

10-19-2009, 11:13 PM

I always say "we" its just a habit. I am working on this by myself.

It would fill to 3000. Probably as an option because you would have to add a pressure switch to shut it off. Much faster too, probably overnight. Going from 4000-4500 will probably take as long as getting to 4k.

We are definitely talking lunch box size.

If you chain two (or more) tanks to it, it will fill two tanks!

I did look at converting a small gas engine but the numbers didn't work.

AGD

DevilMan

10-19-2009, 11:30 PM

Was thinking that Tom, but didn't want to speak if it wasn't an option.

About the multiple tanks part. Guys if you chained 50 tanks together via fittings and hoses where they were all on the receiving end then the pump would fill as many as you could attach. I think the most feasible and logical though would be to run a T off of the whip and fill a max of 2 at a time.

Would take twice as long, but that's part of the deal.

DM

Mechanic79

10-19-2009, 11:52 PM

To fill a paintball tank in 12'ish hours? I would pay $600-$1000 for something like this. Depending on safety, reliability, and maintenance.

I currently have three scuba tanks. $100 (2250 psi), $100 (2250 psi), $360 (3500 psi)
Plus a DIN to K adapter $60
plus a fill station: $60
plus filling each one = 7 each = $21
plus driving to the scuba shop twice. Once to drop off and once to Pick up.
plus yearly inspections along with 3-5 year hydro testing

chafnerjr

10-20-2009, 12:44 AM

I have a very good feeling about all of this :bounce:

PBChappy

10-20-2009, 09:17 AM

I cant wait to see this happen i will be all over it. great idea for those that tech markers at home where there field is a 3 hour drive round trip

ElPanda

10-20-2009, 10:02 AM

Id be willing to donate my high pressure manual pump if it will help speed R&D along

Doobie

10-20-2009, 10:24 AM

I would be up for this as well. I don't get much of an opportunity to tinker like i used to with the wee little Doobette running around so it would be good to have a full tank ready when I need it. Someone said earlier that it is just a little more $$ than some hoppers after upgrades and they are right!
The one thing that bothers me about the industry is that they have not switched over to different fill nipple sizes for 3k and 4.5K. A lot of accidents could be avoided in the long run and would make an "unsupervised" system like this dummy proof.

Newt

10-20-2009, 03:20 PM

$250 range is a good deal for a product like this, and this product is a great idea with the market going to pump/outlaw/milsim.

The best use for this would be to fill a small SCUBA tank over a couple days and use that on Saturday. Could you include a storage tank as an optional accessory? Either way, I can see the SCUBA industry get interested in this little gem. They'll pay $250 for a freaking mask.

Anyway, AGD, your next project ought to be a small paint factory that puts out 2000 rounds in 20 hours. :D

xero28

10-20-2009, 03:23 PM

Anyway, AGD, your next project ought to be a small paint factory that puts out 2000 rounds in 20 hours. :D
:clap: :bounce: :headbang: :dance: and anything else that could make that one happen!

Lohman446

10-20-2009, 03:39 PM

Is it conceivable to run a 3K version with a longer life expectancy? I see a lot of people (again going to the areas that don't have HPA readily available) using them to fill scuba tanks for "outlaw" fields.

Xceolite

10-21-2009, 07:13 AM

I would deffinatley get one. Considering the price to go fill...price seems resonable.

Nick28

10-21-2009, 07:37 AM

Lets say it cost 200-275. For me at my local shop that would mean between 50-70 tank fills. I have two tanks and maybe play about 20 times a year. So that's about a years worth of air for me, give or take.

I would consider it. if I could hook up both my tanks to it and just leave them go and it would shut off after it gets to 45.

Millertime

10-21-2009, 02:18 PM

I must say I agree with several of you on here and think this is a great idea and should have been done several years ago. I think the toughest part about this design would be the size/fill time/cost ratio, which you seem have worked out. $200 would be a reasonable price for me seeing how a scuba is $150 but will only fill to 3000 psi and you have to pay to have it refilled. I currently use a SCBA fireman's tank that fills to 4500 psi that I paid $250 (got an extreme deal from a guy in the industry) so $200-$250 and not having to pay for fills would definitely be something I would be interested in.

athomas

10-21-2009, 04:34 PM

Its not about the cost. Its about the convenience. If I have to go to the scuba shop to fill my tank or if I am not close to a fill station, I have no option. I too can fill a scuba for $5. I also get free air fills at my local field just 15 min away. That being said, I would love to have my own personal high pressure fill device, even if it cost me more money, because it is more convenient for me and it gives me another option.

caylegeorge

10-21-2009, 05:38 PM

The difference here is this device is small and quiet, and plugs into the wall. A young kid could bring one of these into his room or home without his parents knowledge and without getting adults involved.

A scuba tank needs to be filled, and that fill comes from a dive shop etc. Usually you have to drive to a dive shop, which means that A: you are old enough to drive, or B: you are going with someone old enough to know what is going on.

The point is not whos fault it would be, the point is that it could introduce more risk to ignorant players.

Sure there could be safety concerns, but so is running and diving around the woods with a 4500 psi bomb tucked beneath your shoulder.

What's the difference with someone who fills an out of hydro tank off of a scuba? The scuba shop isn't going to check to see if the HP tanks are in hydro, just the scuba tank. If the HP tank blows up, could they sue the scuba shop for filling the scuba tank? Of course not. I really don't see any legal issues Tom should be worried about with this product. If someone wants to risk their own lives by doing something with a tank they're not supposed to, then survival of the fittest (or smartest).

Keep up the good work Tom. :cheers:

Buck

10-21-2009, 06:02 PM

I would love this to become a reality! My local scuba shop went out of business and none of the local fields fill HPA. I live in a very rural area and the nearest place that I can get my air tank filled is 2 hours away each way. This would really be a great thing for me!

Smoothice

10-21-2009, 06:15 PM

DevilMan

10-21-2009, 06:38 PM

Let's not argue the safety issue. Cause if you are that safety conscience then paintball markers themselves should be outlawed. The same idiot filling a busted tank is probably the same guy doing drive by's on homeless and over shooting his friends.

Here's my main concern...

Does TK have a patent?!?

Cause I would cry is some other company tried to pull a fast one.

Yeah I think if TK asked for donations more than enough folks would kick in to file for the patent on this. Just to cover all the bases it should read something like ~>

"This patent is for any device that can use a device to drive a pump and be used to compress, herd, round up, force air from it's normal state of being into a more compact and higher pressure area. This device is to cover the 1 to 153,987,134.8105492 PSI range with the maximum pressure being what ever is physically possible from any time from now until the end of time. Our research shows that there are no other devices previously manufactured or ever thought of capable of doing this and any data showing the contrary is 100% fictional and wholly insane and has never been made previous to this patent filing"

It's a just a start I know.

DM

kwood

10-21-2009, 09:59 PM

here is a quick question
how long would it take to fill a small pump style HPA tank
like the 13/3k?

Raven001

10-22-2009, 08:31 AM

JKR

10-22-2009, 09:18 AM

ElPanda

10-22-2009, 10:57 AM

Although not ideal, to address some safety concerns and compressor maintenance/wear issues, what if the system only filled to 3K? There would be no issue with overfilling that way and it would still be a big convenience to have home fills, even if you only got 3000 in your 4500 tank.

Would you guys still be willing to pay $200+ for 3K fills?

I would still pay for a 3k fill at home, air is air and 3k is more than enough to tech my markers when needed

plus limiting it to only 3k will decrease the fill time.

Lohman446

10-22-2009, 11:32 AM

Although not ideal, to address some safety concerns and compressor maintenance/wear issues, what if the system only filled to 3K? There would be no issue with overfilling that way and it would still be a big convenience to have home fills, even if you only got 3000 in your 4500 tank.

Would you guys still be willing to pay $200+ for 3K fills?

Most scuba tanks we use are 3K. If this is for the weekend outlaw ballers with no reasonable access chances are they are using scuba or bulk tanks and 3K would be enough. The tinkerer who is just testing a marker is likely to need a full 45. I don't know if 3K would change anything though.

WenULiVeUdiE

10-22-2009, 02:01 PM

I wouldn't purchase one if it was more than $45. The local shop is close enough and cheap enough that getting my tanks filled isn't a big deal.

greezypete

10-22-2009, 08:44 PM

SR_matt

10-22-2009, 10:24 PM

to lazy to read past page 2 for now but this would be SWEEEEEEEET. as long as its cheap and quiet i would buy one for sure, and i honestly think my best friend would grab one too since he has like 5 guns that need repair now but never has air

-matt

onecaribou

10-22-2009, 10:43 PM

I think some of you are overly ambitious thinking something like this would fill a scuba tank. I think its a cool idea , but it would take a month to fill a scuba tank if it takes over night to fill a 68/3000.

Actually, if it takes 8 hours to fill a 68 ci /3000 then it would take a WHOLE LOT longer to fill a 60 cf /300 psi SCUBA tank ....

68 cubic inches in typical tank
1728 cubic inches in a cubic foot
103680 cubic inches in a 60 CF tank

68 cubic inches in 8 hours
1728 cubic inches in 8.4 days
103680 cubic inches in 504 days

I'm no math wizard so someone step up if I'm wrong on this...

SR_matt

10-22-2009, 10:49 PM

AGD

10-22-2009, 11:59 PM

Actually, if it takes 8 hours to fill a 68 ci /3000 then it would take a WHOLE LOT longer to fill a 60 cf /300 psi SCUBA tank ....

68 cubic inches in typical tank
1728 cubic inches in a cubic foot
103680 cubic inches in a 60 CF tank

68 cubic inches in 8 hours
1728 cubic inches in 8.4 days
103680 cubic inches in 504 days

I'm no math wizard so someone step up if I'm wrong on this...

Your math is wrong. Scuba tanks are quoted in cubic feet of gas at atmospheric pressure. NOT the actual cubic inches of the tank itself like Pball tanks are. Do the math, a scuba tank is not 1400 times bigger than a typical paintball rig.

My rough calculations say about 3 cubic inches filled to 4500 psi in an hour. Guessing at the volume of a scuba tank I think your looking at 12 days to fill it to 4500.

AGD

onecaribou

10-23-2009, 12:45 AM

Thanks for the clarification Tom. I wondered why my numbers looked so high.

I'd definitely pick one up even if it wasn't practical to fill up my scuba setup.

SR_matt

10-23-2009, 08:19 AM

Your math is wrong. Scuba tanks are quoted in cubic feet of gas at atmospheric pressure. NOT the actual cubic inches of the tank itself like Pball tanks are. Do the math, a scuba tank is not 1400 times bigger than a typical paintball rig.

My rough calculations say about 3 cubic inches filled to 4500 psi in an hour. Guessing at the volume of a scuba tank I think your looking at 12 days to fill it to 4500.

AGD
so then the question arises Mr kaye, what would the duty cycle be on this thing. could we just run it for 2 weeks to pump up a scuba/scba tank to do multiple fills or would we have to give it breaks?

-matt

nerobro

10-23-2009, 09:43 AM

Given the overwhelming support for this idea I am looking at it seriously. I have been running the numbers and it looks possible. I estimate a 4500 psi fill in 30 hours run time but this doesn't take into effect heating losses etc at the moment.

I can estimate the size motor that it would need and while its fairly small, its expensive at about 80 bucks. This means there is no way this would come in around 100 bucks. I think realistically we are in the 200-275 range.

It would be fairly quiet since the motor only rotates at 60 rpm in my current design. It would be designed so it CAN'T pump any more than 4500 psi so you would just turn it off.

Let me know if the price point sinks the ship.

AGD
Since this isn't going to be an "on field" device. why not use a big motor. a 1/8hp 110vac motors are cheap, common, and reliable. They're not small, but they're definitely smaller than a nitro tank. I think the kicker for a project like this would be to have the compressor roughly the same size as a nitro tank. (no need to match the form factor, but something you could stack int the same carrier as a 68ci tank would be magic)

60rpm makes me think you're concerned about pump heating, and piston pump speed. Those cheap 1/8hp motors are usually 3600rpm motors, so you'd need to look at some fun reduction gearing to keep the pump life sane.

is this going to be "par for the course" agd type design? As in most of the parts will be all industry standard size seals?

Now i'm wondering what you're doing for the check valves, given the pump speed, and pump volume those valves are going to need to be pretty small and very close to the pump itself.

In a later post you mentioned that this would come out to be lunch box sized. I think that's a good form factor too. :-) Lots of room to put a logo, and a name on it.

PAINTHEY

10-23-2009, 09:49 AM

My local field charges $7 to fill a 68/4500 to 3000psi and no other options within an hour drive.
So hell yeah I want one now.

SR_matt

10-23-2009, 11:44 AM

at the 2-300 buck mark its something i would probably get eventually. kind of depends on how much more i go play, the last few years have been cut way back due to school and money but i think i am picking back up hopefully so we will see. it is pretty justifiable though even in that range

-matt

om3n

10-23-2009, 01:42 PM

If it's under $100 I would ABSOLUTELY buy one. I play alot of backyard ball and I tinker with my guns alot, and this would absolutely be something I'd buy.

EDIT

Hmm... if it was $200 - $275 I would probably still go with it. I'd have to know a little more about it though, i.e. how long it would take to fill a scuba tank, how loud it is, how it could be regulated, how long it could run, etc. Also, I would be totally fine with increasing the size of the compressor to decrease time to fill and/or price.

Will Wood

10-23-2009, 02:06 PM

My local field charges $7 to fill a 68/4500 to 3000psi and no other options within an hour drive.
So hell yeah I want one now.

They should be shot.

AnthonyDStone

10-23-2009, 02:23 PM

I think compressors have been around long enough that a patent would likely not be needed. Of course I could be seriously mistaken....

Tell That To Smart Parts! :p

Tony

kcombs9

10-23-2009, 02:53 PM

My local field charges $7 to fill a 68/4500 to 3000psi and no other options within an hour drive.

Ouch, mine is 3.50 for a 88/4500 (filled to 3000psi as well)

Free fills (for life) if you buy a tank from their pro shop no take home topping off though

More related note. I have some land at my house I have been thinking about doing some "outlaw" paint ball on but there is no where local to fill our tanks, or scuba for that matter. so If i got this and 1-2 scuba tanks a bigger motor for faster fills i could maybe have a tank filled during the week then play on the weekend?

I looked into the full fledged compressors your local field would buy and I cant afford 2k just to play some outlaw ball on the weekends

maniacmechanic

10-23-2009, 04:18 PM

My local field charges $7 to fill a 68/4500 to 3000psi and no other options within an hour drive.
So hell yeah I want one now.

The Local PB stores used to charge 1$ =1K

madcrisis

10-23-2009, 09:23 PM

if you have any buddys that are fire fighters ask them if they can fill up your bottle a their station. all you need is an adapter. i do it all the time.

as for this compressor for 275 would be a little much for me. id go like 150 but thats only because im on a budget. the idea is genius however

greezypete

10-23-2009, 09:41 PM

Fire station is where I get my scuba filled , usually for free , but I still think one of these compressors would be pretty cool.

SR_matt

10-23-2009, 10:02 PM

JaNordy

10-23-2009, 11:38 PM

I would very much would want one, assuming its not loud, if it takes overnight that is just fine for me, Im sleeping.... sometimes.

greezypete

10-24-2009, 12:28 PM

except that if some one high up finds out you get busted with your friends for misuse of govt property

-matt

Those higher up know , at least here. Its just a service they provide. I have heard of lots of other fire stations that provide the same service. Smaller fire departments may not have the equipment though.

This small compressor wouldnt serve several players like a scuba tank would , but it sure as heck would help out the single player who doesnt go through massive amounts of balls each day. I rarely shoot over a bag a day and Im sure there are alot of people like me. One full tank would be plenty of air for a good days play. :cheers:

neppo1345

10-24-2009, 10:19 PM

This would be perfect for those weekend renegade games...when you don't want to go to the field and deal with aggro kids.

I like this idea.

CatoRockwell

10-25-2009, 12:30 PM

You can count me in AGD, although I would pay up to 500 dollars if we could get this thing faster than 30 hours. If we could get it a bit faster, I wouldn't mind it being larger.

CatoRockwell

10-25-2009, 12:40 PM

also, how far along is this idea of yours TK?

If you've got a prototype, post a vid online, I bet you'd get all the response you'd need.

baldusi

10-27-2009, 08:26 AM

My problem isn't the 3000psi fill, I get that anywhere. It's going from 3k -> 4.5k that's difficult. I know there are some manual pumps that go to 4.5k, but those are like USD600. So a USD150 manual pump that does 4.5k would be great. I could do a normal 3k fill and then put a something extra in a tournament. Or if I'm bored and want to tune a marker I can exercise and do something usefull at the same time!

Ando

10-27-2009, 08:30 AM

Scuba tank in under a day and capable to 4500pis, I'll toss $500 at it for sure.

OPBN

10-27-2009, 10:04 AM

I'm in the same boat as some others. 1 hour each way to get tanks filled up during the week. Someplace closer is open on the weekends, but you don't always want to wait. There have been several times while tinkering that I would have loved to have the ability to fill up at home. Price dependent of course.

doc_Zox

10-27-2009, 03:15 PM

I bet the pneumatic nailer market would be interested in this concept

another way to make it happen is the padawan powered wheel pump

In typical use, discharged, or partially discharged, air cylinders would be exchanged for fresh full ones by runners going back and forth to stationary wheel pumps or special two axle wagons designed to carry up to 1000 pre-charged air cylinders, both positioned behind the combat lines. Certainly the soldiers were not going to fully pump up their three cylinders in regular use as this would require about 4500 strokes with the hand pump! Even a single cylinder could have taken over an hour and one-half of hard pumping action! But the long slim pump, designed almost without dead space, while inefficient in the filling of cylinders, would be useful in “topping off” high pressure in partially expended cylinders.

http://www.beemans.net/images/Austrian%20airguns.htm

maniacmechanic

10-27-2009, 04:31 PM

I bet the pneumatic nailer market would be interested in this concept

another way to make it happen is the padawan powered wheel pump

http://www.beemans.net/images/Austrian%20airguns.htm

Doc thanks for the Beeman link , sooo neat

doc_Zox

10-27-2009, 10:26 PM

check out the modern Girandoni:

http://www.network54.com/Forum/576299/thread/1185088676/Various+Stages+of+Making+a+Girandoni+Receiver.

DevilMan

10-27-2009, 11:14 PM

100+ yards for a 1/2" lead ball going almost 1K FPS and only 365-440 PSI... NICE!!!!

I would love to have one of those bad boys today!

And to think SP and their "gas thru grip" claim!

Anyway.... Back to compressors!

DM

Flatliner333

10-29-2009, 10:55 AM

SR_matt

10-29-2009, 11:40 AM

Does anyone remember the Genesis system. I remember our team had one a long time ago. I cant rember how it worked but I know it compressed air to achieve higher psi to our bottles. Is this the same concept?
i dont remember that system specifically but was it a standalone compressor or was it a booster that pulled air out of 3k tanks and pushed it into other tanks to bump it up

-matt

Flatliner333

10-29-2009, 12:04 PM

I do believe it was only a booster.

bob87

10-29-2009, 01:16 PM

I would not mind paying $200 to have the capability to fill my own tanks. Size is not to big of a problem either, as long as I can carry the compressor and can fit inside my closet when not being used.

Stayhuge

10-29-2009, 01:34 PM

I thinkI mentioned it before, But I would definitely be interested. PAYPAL READY!!! :headbang:

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Flatliner333

10-29-2009, 01:46 PM

interested for sure.

splat15k

10-29-2009, 02:08 PM

Is there anybody who doesn't like this idea???????????

I think it's a massive winner. The best part about it from a marketing standpoint is that it isn't marker-specific and nearly every player could benefit from owning one. These things should sell very well.

Side note: Tom, I cry every time I see your ideas stolen; please get a patent or two on this baby, even if you decide not to make them in the end.

Sumthinwicked

10-29-2009, 02:26 PM

yea i know right

stondroopy

10-29-2009, 02:54 PM

I think this is a great idea. I know there is more R&D but perhaps there can be sizing options? Small lunch box compressors for the guy who just needs a tanks fill and something say maybe double the size for scubas? I use Vair compressors when I bag trucks I always wondered if those could be used somehow to fill tanks :confused:

JKR

10-30-2009, 04:32 AM

Is there anybody who doesn't like this idea???????????

I don't think there is!

I floated the idea to some friends via email a couple of days ago. Of the three to reply so far, all of them are interested. One even commented that at approx $250-$275, he felt that it was a good deal and expected it to cost more. One of the others wanted to know if he could order one yet.

Let's hope this becomes a reality.

I would like to see, however, an estimate on the lifespan of the unit before needing a rebuild. Also, I think the unit should be shipped with the parts for one rebuild since it seems that it will be needed from time to time.

zondo

10-30-2009, 12:43 PM

From the other "Tom Kaye" thread:

I am pleased with the response to the mini-compressor. I am working on it now.

Maybe......

AGD

Man, I love this forum.. :clap:

Wrathbringer

10-30-2009, 02:19 PM

I'm curious about the ETA on this thing, though my gut tells me it's probably at least a year out. It still has to go through a lot of work before production starts...

FiXeL

11-01-2009, 08:11 AM

It will probably take a while to develop the concept into a functioning model. The applications for a compressor like this are not just limited to paintball too.

This will be quite a challenge, since the compressor has to be small, needs to automaticly drain condensation, and be relatively silent in its operation. The most silent air compressors i've seen so far are for airbrushes, and yes they are small but still too loud to keep them running overnight.

But then again... a fridge also uses a compressor... :D

I would definatly want one, because with this beasty (http://wb8.itrademarket.com/pdimage/83/75383_junior_2_benzin_gr.jpg) ear protection is mandatory.

luke

11-01-2009, 10:55 AM

http://wb8.itrademarket.com/pdimage/83/75383_junior_2_benzin_gr.jpg
What is the price of this unit?

magmonkey

11-01-2009, 11:36 AM

I would be all about this.
for the general masses this would have to be idiot proof
there would have to be some way to lock it into 3000 psi position so no one can come along after it has been started and mess with it . a 2:00 am surprise of a tank overpressure would not be welcome.
it would also have to be kind of a set and forget type of system, because you know there will be some one down the line that will set it up and go on vacation for a week

FiXeL

11-01-2009, 11:56 AM

What is the price of this unit?

Not sure.. i've bought mine used for € 1500 (euro) It's a 3300 psi (220 bar) compressor converted to 4500 psi, with a 4-stroke honda motor (same as you would see on go carts) Capable of filling a 10 liter scuba tank from empty to 4500 psi in 30 minutes. It's possible to overfill the scuba's to a maximum of 330 bar (4900 psi) but i usually kill the compressor at 310, so that after the scuba's cool down there's a full 4500 psi in there.

Link: http://www.bauergroup.com/en/produkte/atemluft/mobile_kompressoren/compact_line/junior2/index.php

The tank for the fuel holds a bit more than a gallon, and should be good for atleast 3 hours of running the compressor, maybe even more.

Since the local diving shop went out of buisness, i was forced to get one. This one was for sale at the time, and the price was affordable. This thing has been running for years before i got it, and bauer compressors have a lifetime warranty if you have it serviced every year.

Currently it's coupled to 2x 10 liter 4500 psi scuba's with double valves on it. So the compressor can be permanently hooked up, a filling hose between both tanks, and a fill station on the last valve. I have a third scuba that i want to hook up, but it needs hydro and a double valve installed.

It's not the most ideal setup, but for our field (small woodsball field) it can guarantee the first 10 fills at 3000 psi before the compressor has to top off the scuba's again.

mostpeople

11-01-2009, 06:25 PM

I might be able to cut it down to 24 hours but probably not to 12 hours for an 80 cu inch tank. Each piston has a LOT of pressure on it during the compression stroke so the motor gets bigger quickly and things like heat build up come into play. Faster will always mean more expensive.

The other option is that I sell just the compressor without the motor. You hook up your own via a pulley and fan belt.

The components would have to be rebuildable with average hand tools. One of the big problems with high pressure compressors is the wear and tear.

The electrical consumption will be minimal. Something like a 100 watt light bulb.

AGD

Good ideas tom. Glad to see you are thinking, it is obvious to a lot of us that you still have interest in the sport, which is awesome.

However this idea, as going_home said, is impractical. I would not buy it. When I shoot a mag, I am at 2000 psi by the end of the first game, which means you need to refill before every game.

Sorry to say this, but I want you to be aware of all sides to this, including the negative ones :(

I am much more interested in the curving marker you were talking about earlier :D

mostpeople

11-01-2009, 06:27 PM

Make it the size of a case of paint, able to run on car/wall outlet, and cut it to 30 min, and I would buy it.

JKR

11-01-2009, 08:15 PM

Good ideas tom. Glad to see you are thinking, it is obvious to a lot of us that you still have interest in the sport, which is awesome.

However this idea, as going_home said, is impractical. I would not buy it. When I shoot a mag, I am at 2000 psi by the end of the first game, which means you need to refill before every game.

Sorry to say this, but I want you to be aware of all sides to this, including the negative ones :(

I am much more interested in the curving marker you were talking about earlier :D

Perhaps you wouldn't buy it but you are missing most of the market for this compressor idea of TK's. When I go out to play renegade with my 'Mag, I take my 72cu in/3000 PSI tank with me and use it for most, if not all, that day of play. For renegade players who generally shoot less than half a case a day of play (which is a large percentage) and have poor access to fills, this idea would be a great thing!

chafnerjr

11-01-2009, 08:26 PM

... cut it to 30 min, and I would buy it.
That's the thing that makes compressors expensive. You can buy those systems now if you don't mind spending a few thousand dollars. TK's trying to get it under $300. Time is the trade off :ninja:

SR_matt

11-01-2009, 10:14 PM

That's the thing that makes compressors expensive. You can buy those systems now if you don't mind spending a few thousand dollars. TK's trying to get it under $300. Time is the trade off :ninja:
TK is also trying to make it almost silent, if the silent part is ignored speed can come up, but others living in the same area might not like it

as to the amount of air consumed by a player, with a 45/45 filled pretty close (probably 4400 after the cool down) i got off about 600-650 rounds with the hardest spring in, shooting 260-280 with a very loose barrel/paint match, with the lightest spring and a good fit i can probably push 8-850, it would be great for a player that just wants renegade ball but that is only part of the market, the tinkering is a huge part and those that have to pay per fill, heck when i go to a scenario game it would be nice to go out in the morning and not have to stand in an air line to get 3k barely

-matt

Looper

11-01-2009, 10:19 PM

I do believe it was only a booster.

You are correct... I have rebuilt this one to get 4500 fills from a scuba tank

http://www.mcarterbrown.com/gallery/data/816/medium/IMG_2799.JPG

Flatliner333

11-02-2009, 10:42 AM

^^^ Ahh Memories ^^^

(Mostpeople) I think most of us maybe TK himself ??? are looking at this as a way to have air when we need it for tinkering and repairing our guns without having to drive to the field or scuba shop. I dont think he is even worried about making money on this thing thus the attempt to keep it small and simple. Speaking for myself if this does become available I plan on splitting the cost with a buddy of mine who lives around the corner.

russc

11-02-2009, 11:42 PM

I think this product, if made, would have a wide appeal. The most obvious applications would be in pneumatic tools, and high-end airguns.

jolt00

11-03-2009, 01:29 AM

My rough calculations say about 3 cubic inches filled to 4500 psi in an hour. Guessing at the volume of a scuba tank I think your looking at 12 days to fill it to 4500.

AGD

using mostly 13/3000's and 22/3000's i would jump at this it would only take about 5 hours to fill one tank.

great idea can't wait to see how this turns out.

pillage

11-03-2009, 07:54 AM

The portable dive compressors already take a long time to fill a tank. In theory high pressure tanks, can be filled via a hand pump like what is used on precharged airguns, but it would take forever. I might interested if the price was low enough, provided it did not make my electric meter spin at 12000 rpms. :D

Mayvik

11-03-2009, 05:20 PM

I can see this being very popular if the price was right..especially for all those people who still haven't converted to HPA because they can't get fills reasonably close or dedicated outlaw ballers. Or gunwhores like me who manage to drain their tanks almost instantaneously after getting home from getting fills...

going_home

11-03-2009, 05:56 PM

If AGD builds it, I will definitely have to have one.
Hopefully a pre-buy with a 1/2 deposit so it makes it easier to squirrel the money away in these trying economic times.

I never thought about using it to fill the 3000 psi 80 cu ft scuba tank.
I only play once in a while these days so if it takes a week or longer to fill it, no big deal.
Count me in .

:D

JKR

11-03-2009, 09:27 PM

SR_matt

11-03-2009, 10:16 PM

Cross posted at mcarterbrown.com for some more opinions on TK's idea. With other recreational uses beyond paintball, I can see this thing being popular.

Let's just hope that it is built in the near future.

http://www.mcarterbrown.com/forums/dead-zone/97564-tom-kayes-mini-compressor-idea.html
ya this would be great honestly for off roaders too, at least for those that dont have an on board air system and honestly this is cheaper and doesnt mean you lose A/C . this really could be a large breakthrough in compressed air

-matt

nobloodloss

11-04-2009, 11:18 AM

Looking forward to its release.
splattttttt

woody124

11-04-2009, 11:52 AM

i would be in. i have to drive an hour or more to get my tanks filled. i could do it overnight and not have to spend the gas money. iknow im cheap :D

Jacobd

11-04-2009, 01:13 PM

What about some kind of booster device that could take shop air pressure from a regular compressor (100-150PSI) and pump it up to 3000+? would that cut down the time significantly? maybe something like this http://hackaday.com/2007/11/30/diy-scuba-tank-boost-pump-for-mixing-gases/

Twistedpsyche

11-04-2009, 01:53 PM

NitroDuck used to make a power booster that would hook to a regular shop compressor and do either 3k or 4500psi fills. Actually I think Haskell made it and Nitroduck sold it. Either way. I used to have one.....

But I'd be interested in what Tom is proposing. For that price an overnight fill is not horrible. It's not going to suit eveyones needs, but I think it would work well for a lot of people.

Person

11-06-2009, 12:46 AM

Boosters are still available from various companies as far as I know.

I am interested in this product. It is most appealing if it is something that can be sitting around my house and not receive frowns. Not looking at some greasy loud compressor here running for hours on end. If it is quiet and clean and durable it can run as long as it needs to with no problems.

I am not interested in the DIY motor idea because I would rather the unit be nicely self contained.

But it is approaching the price point that I might have to hope to find one used.

cmosser502

11-06-2009, 12:41 PM

yes...

JKR

11-06-2009, 05:29 PM

FYI to those posting and reading this thread, there is a quite healthy discussion and debate going on at mcarterbrown.com.

bbotts77

11-06-2009, 09:19 PM

This is definitely something I would be interested in; especially if it was owner-serviceable. I also think the price range you've mentioned is fair.

GoatBoy

11-06-2009, 09:39 PM

I haven't read the whole thread, but what really interests me is how the filter and moisture management system are done.

As mentioned elsewhere, if I really wanted HPA at home, I could go buy one of those airgun pumps that go up to something like 3300PSI... But I always wonder about how to keep the air clean and dry.

Preferentially, I'd like a device that I could use at a field to top off crappy fills. HPA is fairly widely available, but GOOD HPA fills... are more scarce. Boosters aren't common.

Of course when at the field, the conditions for dirt and humidity will vary pretty wildly.

jade_monkey07

11-06-2009, 10:10 PM

i would be in too

MoeMag

11-06-2009, 11:35 PM

I like it. I would also be worried about having dry air. Then, just a side thought... 3am burst disk. :wow:

SR_matt

11-07-2009, 05:08 PM

I like it. I would also be worried about having dry air. Then, just a side thought... 3am burst disk. :wow:
even 3k's have a 5k disk on it so you shouldnt have an issue even if the system failed to cut off (kind of doubt tom would let something out that wasnt super redundant with safety on that)

-matt

JKR

11-11-2009, 06:10 AM

Wish I had one right now! Got a game on Saturday and need my tank topped off. Hope this project becomes reality soon! :)

skipdogg

11-22-2009, 10:51 AM

any updates? hows the R&D going?

ArmyEngineer

11-22-2009, 12:37 PM

I don't know much about air compression systems, but just thinking about the moisture problem, came to a couple of conclusions.

Here is some data on absolute humidity. Notice the saturation pressure at room temperature. http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/humidity-ratio-air-d_686.html

And see: http://www.tis-gdv.de/tis_e/misc/klima.htm

Don't check my math or units, this is just an approximation. :) Does it seem reasonable?
Here is a crude idea of how much air a 68 tank takes at 3000ps (we aren't dealing with an ideal gas here)i,
P1V1=P2V2
(3000)(68)=(14.1)(x)
x=14468 cu in
x=0.23 cu m

If you run the compressor inside, your temperature is probably around 20 degrees C and RH=30-40%

Thats 6.9 grams of water per m^3. So divide that by 4. You have 1.72 grams of water in your tank.

We are talking relatively small quantities of water, but still significant. Maybe one of these will work.

1. Use this on your air intake.
http://www.sidecarsally.com/images/shamwow.jpg

2. Use a cooling coil to condense the water vapor and then blow it off. I have a feeling that with the low compression rate the tank won't heat up very quickly so this probably won't work well. Maybe some of the liquid can still be collected in and blown off of a holding tank

3. Reusable desiccant cartridge. If there is a holding tank, screw the cartridge in to the outlet port after a valve. When the desiccant is saturated, close the valve and remove the cartridge. Regeneration of the cartridge could be performed around 300 degrees F. Then replace the cartridge and open the valve. Wait for saturation, repeat. (There should also be a valve after the cartridge.)

4. Semipermeable membrane dryer.

AGD

11-22-2009, 10:26 PM

Beemer

11-22-2009, 10:28 PM

Knock..... :D

Watcher

11-22-2009, 11:17 PM

knock

Take as long as you need :cheers:

kwood

11-22-2009, 11:25 PM

knock on kwood... :D

Wrathbringer

11-23-2009, 11:38 AM

Knock once more...

I'm impressed, I was sure that this would take a lot longer but you seem to be making great progress with the compressor! I'm looking forward to seeing the working prototype :D

Mavro

11-23-2009, 05:11 PM

I would definitely grab one of these. For those times that a little fine-tuning in the basement will save heartache on the field, waiting a day for a full tank is well worth it. Count me in for 2. I'm sure my teammates would pick a few up as well.

ElPanda

11-23-2009, 08:48 PM

man this is gonna be so awesome :)

sjrtk

11-24-2009, 08:00 PM

LOVE THE IDEA! I want a place in line to buy one.

Chrishew09

11-26-2009, 09:13 PM

i wouldn't buy one, it's doesn't sound practical

warbeak2099

11-26-2009, 09:17 PM

I would buy one in a heartbeat.

gunangel

11-27-2009, 02:24 AM

wow sounds aboslutely awesome, closest field is 45 minutes away. a hastle to go to, especially if i only need air. price dependent i am on boards as well!

SPY 1

11-28-2009, 05:47 PM

Not sure.. i've bought mine used for € 1500 (euro) It's a 3300 psi (220 bar) compressor converted to 4500 psi, with a 4-stroke honda motor (same as you would see on go carts) Capable of filling a 10 liter scuba tank from empty to 4500 psi in 30 minutes. It's possible to overfill the scuba's to a maximum of 330 bar (4900 psi) but i usually kill the compressor at 310, so that after the scuba's cool down there's a full 4500 psi in there.

Link: http://www.bauergroup.com/en/produkte/atemluft/mobile_kompressoren/compact_line/junior2/index.php

The tank for the fuel holds a bit more than a gallon, and should be good for atleast 3 hours of running the compressor, maybe even more.

Since the local diving shop went out of buisness, i was forced to get one. This one was for sale at the time, and the price was affordable. This thing has been running for years before i got it, and bauer compressors have a lifetime warranty if you have it serviced every year.

Currently it's coupled to 2x 10 liter 4500 psi scuba's with double valves on it. So the compressor can be permanently hooked up, a filling hose between both tanks, and a fill station on the last valve. I have a third scuba that i want to hook up, but it needs hydro and a double valve installed.

It's not the most ideal setup, but for our field (small woodsball field) it can guarantee the first 10 fills at 3000 psi before the compressor has to top off the scuba's again.

Is that the unit you bought from mike ? if so it was €3500 new and it could handle a 15 man team whole day practice so it is quite nice but a bit expensive

BBStacker

12-10-2009, 11:36 AM

I would in a heartbeat. It may be one of my impulse purchases that I would get if it was available in the local retail store right now...just would depend on the total cost and if I had the money. Hubby likes the idea but reasons that since it's an air compressor, it's going to make noise. There's no way around it. He doesn't like the idea of trying to sleep while it's running all night but we do like the idea of setting it up in our storage unit downstairs and making our neighbors wonder what's getting ready to break if it's going to be as loud as he suspects. We have paper thin walls here anyway.

Thanks for the information and updates on the products. Can't wait to see it when it goes on sale.

nobloodloss

12-10-2009, 10:39 PM

Compressor Update:

I have two of the three stages prototyped as of today. The second stage got up to 950 psi as planned for in the design. Third stage construction starts tomorrow.

So far so good and no problems (knock on wood).

AGD
Obviously, safety/reliability is the only thing keeping you from immediate release. Thank Velcor, you're not of the Gardner variety.
You plan to patent, or will you leave it an OS (open source)?
splattttttt

punkncat

12-13-2009, 07:22 PM

This may already be answered in here, but I didn't feel like digging through all the pages.

Is this "mini compressor" actually a "mini booster"?

nobloodloss

12-13-2009, 07:33 PM

This may already be answered in here, but I didn't feel like digging through all the pages.

Is this "mini compressor" actually a "mini booster"?
Individual all in one air fill station 4.5k maxx pressure

PaintballEngineer

12-13-2009, 08:35 PM

This may already be answered in here, but I didn't feel like digging through all the pages.

Is this "mini compressor" actually a "mini booster"?

What's the difference? :confused:

Will Wood

12-13-2009, 08:47 PM

I think he's asking if it just increases the output of a compressor (shop compressor) or will only work as a 3000/4500psi compressor, with the assistance of shop compressor.

punkncat

12-13-2009, 08:57 PM

What's the difference? :confused:

I lack the training to explain it in an eloquent way....but a compressor takes air at one atmosphere and compresses it into a storage tank until the pressure reaches a point that activates a shut off.
A booster takes high pressure air and compresses it like with a piston to a higher pressure. Generally they are used to take a lover pressure high volume air source like a bulk tank, and boosting its output (whatever it is) to 4500PSI (or whatever) to fill a small tank like what you use on your marker.

The reason that I ask is that with this requiring a shop compressor it make me think booster. Aside from that I would like to know whether to expect a constant low hum, or "chug" from it.