Tom Kaye

[HFDMinimag]

Someone needs to convince Tom Kay to come back to paintball. Almost everything made is inferior to his product. I went to the paintball store for the first time in 8 years the other day and realized that most of the guns hanging on the wall seemed like cheap garbage. I felt like if I dropped it that it would shatter into a million pieces. lol. :shooting:

[Smoothice]

I think we all agree TK should come back.

Just a matter of time. I hope the hp compressors are his gateway drug back in ;)

[PaintballEngineer]

COME BACK TOM!! =( i want a NEW xmag! :D

Course if AGD starts producing them again that would decrease their value :( maybe just make a few :)

lol

[behemoth]

He might listen if you spelled his name correctly.

Jus' sayin'

[Beemer]

He might listen if you spelled his name correctly.

Jus' sayin'

:ninja:

[going_home]

He might listen if you spelled his name correctly.

Jus' sayin'


Tom Kotsiopoulos ?

;)

[behemoth]

:ninja:

http://imgs.pbnation.com/smilies/facepalm.gif

[Frizzle Fry]

Please come back.

[CatoRockwell]

COME BACK!!! Rock the house of paintball once again :headbang:

[AGD]

I am pleased with the response to the mini-compressor. I am working on it now.

Maybe......

AGD

[PaintballEngineer]

I am pleased with the response to the mini-compressor. I am working on it now.

Maybe......

AGD


AO, we have a Tom sighting. :dance: :bounce: :clap:

lol :cheers:

[Frizzle Fry]

I am pleased with the response to the mini-compressor. I am working on it now.

Maybe......

AGD

The Automag is amazing. At lvl5 it was an incredible semi-auto in a world of double action, at lvl7 classic it was the best semi among innumerable simple blowbacks, at lvl7 R/T it got better faster and stronger, and at lvl10 X-valve it became perfect. Light, fast, durable, easy to own and operate and perfectly capable of ripping off strings of paint without chopping.


There's a reason people are making aftermarket pneumatic and EP frames. The Automag is perfect where it is. It will stand the test of time and provide hours of tinkering and play to paintballers the world around. Now, we need something new. We need the kind of innovation that created a blowforward semi automatic spool valve in a world that only knew pump action markers and 10 pound double-action clunkers... We need a marker that will make people look at paintball in a whole different light.


Look at the Ego... You had a stacked tube Sheridan pump, then someone made a VM68 stacked tube blowback, then someone said "OK, lets make it smaller" and we had Spyders, then someone realized that you could make an Intimidator with the same stack tubed body by small changes and the elimination of the hammer/valve, then someone honed the Intimidator operating system into what we now know as the Ego. All of those markers were inventive in their respective times, but they were all just building off a previous design... That in no way makes them less 'great' a marker, but it does show that people go with what they know.


The Automag wasn't a Sheridan style valve and it wasn't a Nelson style valve and it wasn't a modification of the strange setup of Splatmasters. It wasn't some mutant poppet valved or electronicly actuated verison of the existing markers of the day. It was NEW and it was good... Honestly, from the level5 Classic to the level10 X-valve, the perfecting that went was so simple and specific from generation to generation that a person can take their 1991 Automag and slap in the newest most perfect AGD has to offer (body, valve or frame) and be competitive with the premium of Automag technology, worlds more effective than the already amazing original.


This may seem like a lot of butt kissing but it isn't. There's a reason that I've owned scores of markers over the years and always come back to the Automag... It has always stood alone with very few posers and copies, and every time it has been changed it has been with a useful technology that served to make the marker more effective, with an eye for compatibility between generations.


What paintball needs now is a marker that doesn't boil down to an Angel, a Spyder, an Automag, an Intimidator, a Matrix, a Tippmann or a Shocker. Name a common marker by a major manufacturer and it could almost certainly be boiled down to one of those guns... The game needs something new and different, and maybe it's not by "Airgun Designs" or AGD as the lovers have come to know it, maybe it's by "Tom Kaye Innovations" or "Tom Kaye Engineering" or what the hell, "Kotsiopoulos Paintball"! The world of paintball needs something that doesn't necesarily outshine existing markers, but makes people think twice about what they need in a marker and what they can have in a marker.


/rant

[AGD]

"new gun design"

I did that here
http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=245459
But the world didn't get too excited about it.

AGD

[Ando]

Well the world doesn't have your vision. :rolleyes:

[TwilightG]

Build it... and they will come.

[BigEvil]

Build it... and they will come.


Not really... 'cough-WARPFEED-cough"

[Ratt]

"new gun design"

I did that here
http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=245459
But the world didn't get too excited about it.

AGD

Tom, I can't help but to believe that if you just build it, people will buy it. You could market it to us here on AO however you wanted, and we would buy it. Hell, you could market it on PBN as a new gun from a new company called Smart-er Parts, and all the little agglets would be all over it.
Seriously, though, if you build a new gun, we will buy.

[CatoRockwell]

Build it, I'll buy it. You are 100% correct, there are no companies left that are innovative enough to do something completely new. Those tards scared off the true innovators, like you :D .

In an industry where the newest ego with 0 changes but with a new name 10 instead of 9 gets people to sell off their old ego for half the price and then spend 1800 bucks for a new one. Something new would blow people's minds.

Do it, I'll buy.

[M-a-s-sDriver]

The Automag wasn't a Sheridan style valve and it wasn't a Nelson style valve and it wasn't a modification of the strange setup of Splatmasters. It wasn't some mutant poppet valved or electronicly actuated verison of the existing markers of the day. It was NEW and it was good.


I layed that line on Glenn Palmer about 1994. He would get all wound up and explain how the Mag was just like one of my nail guns, and ask "how is that new"? Those were fun times.

What perfected the Automag was compressed air. On co2 they were giant pains in butt. I was on a podunk b-level Airgun-sponsered team in the '90's and I would practice with my cocker, and play the tournys with the mag.

For me, the Mag was perfected not long after this day...

http://i714.photobucket.com/albums/ww147/jbcophotos/img002.jpg

This was a picture I took Paintball Sams at a "BIG GAME" , I think in '94. Tom K. brought this gawdawful H.P. tank contraption, and I just remember that mag singing all day. The following NPPL in San Diego I bought one of the Nitro-Duck brass headed tanks and regs, and some scubas, and never looked back at co2 again.
3 or 4 years after that I gutted my reg and went to a sidetapped stab on a classic valve, and that was the best mag I ever owned, bar none.
http://i714.photobucket.com/albums/ww147/jbcophotos/magpic2-1.jpg

The last improvement I made to this was a european high-rise body, and a carbon-fiber grip handle I made from a stiffi cigar tube.
I wish I could find another one of those bodies.
Brent. :cry:

[Frizzle Fry]

"new gun design"

I did that here
http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=245459
But the world didn't get too excited about it.

AGD

I loved it...

A friend from work and I have been sketching ideas to achieve what you talked about there for weeks. It's a little different than what you worked out, but we're both fairly competent artists and we've both built markers from scratch... It's got a lot of automag in it, but a lot of other things too.

I feel like most of the poor reception to your idea came from people who either couldn't get their head around the idea, thought that some of the features had already been "done" in markers that weren't released, or made comments under the impression that your idea was just a passing thought and nothing more.

I presonally see a huge place in the market for what you described there.

[GRimm]

The only way I could see you inproving on the mag valve would be to make it more efficient. Now obviously if you were to make an lp mag valve you would loose the reactivity, but for some that isnt a bad thing (i.e tournament players/outlaw players)

[breg]

It has been a few years since Ihave played. Let me put it this way: The last time I slung paint on a field, TK was still the honcho at AGD.
But The issue as I see it is the by and large the paint ball community (PLEASE realize that I am not saying everyone) in overcome with a huge sense of complacency. The problem is that so many of the markers shoot paint balls well enough that they do not want anything new aside form mainly cosmetic or superficial design changes.
I remember, ye gods I sound like an old man, that when I first got into the game, say in 2002, the the tech was growing by leaps and bounds. There were many sucesses and failures. There were many sucesses and failures on all fronts, and a lot of them were little more than matters of personal preference. Look at the Warp Feed, Remotes, etc.
What it comes down to is that a lot of the people do not want new and better, but sadly, prettier and flashier. I mean, how does it benefit me if they managed, through a huge price hike, to shave and additioanl three ounces off of the new Dye matrix? For a guy that actually likes heavier guns, it does not.
Lighter is not new, but for some it is better. But, if you complain the a three pound gun is too heavy, well then you are a manly man, ain'tcha? I digresss.
The biggest problem is that a good swathe of the paintball buy public is convinced that the old is new, lighter is new, marketing buzz words are viable scientific research, and that a suoped up spyder (yes Timmies, I am looking at you) are so much better than quaility engineering.

[PaintballEngineer]

The only way I could see you inproving on the mag valve would be to make it more efficient. Now obviously if you were to make an lp mag valve you would loose the reactivity, but for some that isnt a bad thing (i.e tournament players/outlaw players)

...OR the piezo electric injector. :D

[skipdogg]

How about this... The official HPA fill station release is at the 2010 living legends game at CPX!!! What a way for Tom to come back into the game.

[stondroopy]

The only way I could see you inproving on the mag valve would be to make it more efficient. Now obviously if you were to make an lp mag valve you would loose the reactivity, but for some that isnt a bad thing (i.e tournament players/outlaw players)


This was the only thing I didnt like about my mag. I loved the way it shot, it felt great but man what a gas hog. Get it to where it doesnt need 800 psi to operate and some more shots per bottle and Buy another one in a heartbeat. That isnt the case so im trying to find a nice used CCM Semi

[GroovYChickeN 2.o]

I loved it...

A friend from work and I have been sketching ideas to achieve what you talked about there for weeks. It's a little different than what you worked out, but we're both fairly competent artists and we've both built markers from scratch... It's got a lot of automag in it, but a lot of other things too.

I feel like most of the poor reception to your idea came from people who either couldn't get their head around the idea, thought that some of the features had already been "done" in markers that weren't released, or made comments under the impression that your idea was just a passing thought and nothing more.

I presonally see a huge place in the market for what you described there.

I agree. I thought your post about making a new marker was just a "hey so I was farting around watching the tube and had this idea" kind of discussion starter, not a way to judge interest. If there is a legitimate proposal of you designing a new dream gun I would be in line with cash in hand. I would probably even beg you to let me be a tester. It's also hard for me to get involved into a discussion like the one posted above because I'm not an engineer, so I don't really know what you smarties are talking about.

[Frizzle Fry]

I would probably even beg you to let me be a tester.

Ditto. I'd even send you some of my ideas concerning ball spin and electronic regulation of input pressure :cool:

[CatoRockwell]

:hail:

Tom Kaye,
My friend and I were discussing that post, and he thought the same thing. I said: "I think Tom Kaye is coming back to paintball! here's the link"

After reading, he simply said: "I think it was just idle tinkering thoughts"

I want to believe that you're going to come back, I would love to test any new marker ideas you have on the Scenario/woodsball fields.

People are looking for something new. Everyone is sick of the hype we want to see innovation.

[halB]

"new gun design"

I did that here
http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=245459
But the world didn't get too excited about it.

AGD
Don't be too sure about that. I've taken up your idea as a challenge to myself, and I am close. I figured out how to change the spin on a ball consistently and well, still a lot more problems to figure out.

[Mr. Mouse]

your new gun design sounds pretty interesting tom, I've been in the sport for a while and the mag by far is my favorite gun out of all the guns i shot (granted i have a invert mini that i absolutely love and i think that was the next "automag" but anywho) i still prefer my mag over all my guns that i have owned and still own such as my invert mini, sft shocker, intimidator, angel, etc. I also like the mag because AGD has always stood behind its saying "quality always shoots straight", and it does i have never had a gun shoot better and as accurately and the best part is its a mech gun, its fast and reliable and barely need to do anything to it. And the best part about a mag is you can go from mech, to electric as easy as a switch or just switching the frame out(for the most part).

If i were tom, id get back into the sport since speedball is dying ( did you see the GPL roster? wow not alot of teams ) and it seems like alot more people are going out and playing woodsball for the most part, granted theres a lot of people at the field i play at playing speedball but thats my team, not walk ons.

Just thought id throw my 2 cents in :)

and tom you should come back, make a prototype of the new gun and see what happens, i mean common there hasn't really been a "New" marker out for a while, like other people were saying the designs today are just improved previous designs, nothing has really been innovated, maybe the invert mini but say a ego, there all the same (cept eteks have 1 less qev or whatever and some other things), all the angels are the same for the most part except milling on the body/trigger frame, bob longs just got shorter and now look like a high-tech bushmaster, smartparts is still stealing ideas, paintball world for the most part hasn't changed just less people playing speedball and paintball in general because the economy has sucked.

[chafnerjr]

"new gun design"

I did that here
http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=245459
But the world didn't get too excited about it.

AGD
I don't think the masses truly understand... Besides we're a pretty small group here. A breakthrough of those proportions would have a massive effect on even the basic concept of paintball... but alas, you're the genius engineer and I couldn't help with anything but the software. In any event I AM very interested in the at home compressor :clap:

[Oddux]

"new gun design"

I did that here
http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=245459
But the world didn't get too excited about it.

AGD
Nothing to get discouraged about really. Everyone immediately began speculation and coming up with problems, it's the first thing anyone really does on the internet. In any anonymous forum, most everyone is a critic. There were however many others immediately trying to envision how to overcome those problems. The concept was an interesting one, and one worth exploring. Moreover, its a technology not anywhere else in the market. Both the ideas you've brought up recently are good ones and would really stand out.

Cato sent me an IM sometime ago saying you were back and I told him it was more likely you had a tinkering itch. I'm still rather hoping that's not true. The paintball industry has been doing little the last few years but rehashing old ideas and calling them new, someone needs to shake things up a bit.

[bgearing]

Well hell, I was excited!

I've been talking about it ever since!

[RavishingEddie]

I don't know why it would be more difficult now to build a new designed mag when we have so many die hard AGD members with so much to offer. There are those here that are artists, engineers,machinists and innovators in their own rights. I think everyone here really has something to offer. I mean look how far the thread went with just an idea that Tom had one night. I mean C'mon he didn't even draw it out, it was just an idea and the thread went pages long.
IDK but I feel the potential is definitely there. :shooting:

Just my 2 cents.

[fflamingmoe]

Well i'm going to Chicago next year.I live in Ontario any chance your going to be around the Airgun Factory?That's if we can get in and look around that is. :rolleyes:

[Frizzle Fry]

Well i'm going to Chicago next year.I live in Ontario any chance your going to be around the Airgun Factory?That's if we can get in and look around that is. :rolleyes:

Probably not seeing as Tom is not longer head of AGD... Though I'm sure he and Dave Zupan are still on good terms and all that.

[fflamingmoe]

That's 1 out of 1 Billion, sounds good to me. :rofl:
Well i think there good odd's :headbang:

[Mr. Mouse]

here ill just say it, tom come back please :)