Pnuemag Cheater Q's!

[jade_monkey07]

I finally got my cheater up and running. using an xvalve with ult. For reference my ult has always been more sensitive then most. With the cheater the trigger pull is RIDICULOUSLY light! but i find that the ult doesnt reset properly all the time. I know that an rt/on off would be better, but the pull would be heavier.

QUESTION!
For those of you out there with the cheater mod, how many are running a ult, how does it feel? and for those that have BOTH available to them, whats the weight diffirence between them?

Oh and in comparison to the gforce frame this thing is the chesticles. way easier to walk( when the ult resets properly)

[skyless]

I don't have mine yet but will let you know the difference between the rt and ult on/off once I get it. I'm #31 so it may be a little while still, what # were you? As far as the gforce comparison goes, are you using the same lpr? I'll let you know how my gforce compares as well, it's ok using a tickler but I'm looking foward to the difference with a microrock.

[xero28]

I've had similar issues as well with the ULT not resetting properly. Does it happen after a few shots, or sometimes on the first shot? It's happened to me when I'm trying to walk it, and it's almost like it's short-stroking. I'm actually going to be able to drop by Zap's house this weekend, so I'll see if it's just a matter of getting it fit properly. I'm thinking that may the unit is back just the tiniest amount in the frame and it's hindering the sear just a little bit, and the ULT doesn't have enough force to fully reset.

Well, wait, now that I'm thinking about it some more, it could be that you (we) are on the trigger too much. So it would be like this...

You're walking the trigger. You pull the trigger with your index finger and the gun fires. You then start to release your index finger and start coming at the trigger with your middle finger. At this point, the trigger is still engaged just a little bit, but since there is so little force required on the ULT and the piston is so big, the piston is still holding the sear back, not allowing it to fully reset. So as the index finger comes off and the middle finger goes on the trigger, there is an overlap, and the cheater system is never actually fully closed, allowing the piston to reset, thus not allowing the sear to reset fully and you get what seems like a short stroke. That's why the RT on/off works fine, because there is more force to reset the sear than there is to trip it. So even if you still have the cheater system open (air pushing on the piston), the sear has enough force to push it closed and reset after a shot.

Guess we just have to learn to walk better.

EDIT: Forgot to mention the weight difference. It is noticeable between the RT and ULT since you do have to up the pressure in the LPR, though I found it quite easy to walk using the RT. The video is with an RT on/off. :cheers:

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[smeek]

It sounds like you are pulling the trigger before the cheater fully exhausts. Essentially you are short stroking because the trigger isn't coming all the way forward allowing the cheater to exhaust and reset for the next shot.

[BigEvil]

Everyone that I have talked to about pneumags all say that ULTs do not work as reliably with it. The cheater does not have a return spring on the piston, so it relies soley on the return action of the sear to reset it.

Quite frankly I have been having nothing but problems with mine in one of my classic RTs. After tinkering with it this week some more, and judging from the way its acting and the marks the sear are making on it, the cheater unit is not letting the sear come all the way forward. I can get it to work with a very short on/off pin, but it runs away. It will not work at all with the standard size RT pin. It's an easy fix, but since I paid a premium for it I will prefer to have Zap make the modifications to mine.

[jade_monkey07]

I actually had 2 gforce frames, one with xvalve rt on/off and tipmann ebolt lpr. the other was with a tickler rt on/off classic valve and then retro valve. The xvalve one is in my buddies hands and I can make that one sing, his fingers arent so nice to it lol. the classic was pretty good but the valve had resetting issues even without the gforce. the retro was better but it still never hummed along like the x does.

my new setup is my tac one with palmers micro rock lpr(awesome lpr) I do know that i am short stroking it a little when i try to walk but quite often it does it even off the first shot. I would like to try removing shims in the ult but im not sure it will make a difference. my ult shoots as soon as the trigger rod is moved in the slightest way, weather i have 4 shims or 1

ill try and pick up an rt and see the difference in feel. i love how light it is right now though. its almost like your not hitting anything at all when it fires.

somehow rig a spring on the sear itself, or magnet mod?!?!?

http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/6318/41650991.png (http://img513.imageshack.us/i/41650991.png/)

On second thought that might cause the sear to wear on the bolt more......And again make the pull heavier, still an interesting thought.

who wants to trade my ult for their rt on/off???

[jade_monkey07]

OH and my safety only PARTIALLY works lol. If i pull it hisses, if i crank on it a little it fires.
i have a viperblade pro in an intelliframe

And i was number 5 on the first list :)

[TwilightG]

OH and my safety only PARTIALLY works lol. If i pull it hisses, if i crank on it a little it fires.

The trigger rod is too long. I think xero mentioned the same problem. I suspect all of the cheaters work like this too.

It wouldn't take too much work to shave it down a little but from what xero mentioned, the rod is a bit thin and can bend.

btw, I do not own a cheater... only speculating based on the feedback that I've read :)

[vf-xx]

I was #4 on the first list. I have mine up and working.

Initally I had problems shooting through the safety, so I ground down the trigger rod some and that fixed that problem.

I also use a ULT in my x valve, I removed some shims and that seems to fix most of the problem. If I pull slowly, or fan I'm ok. I do shortstorke if I try to walk the trigger.

Personally it doesn't bother me that much. I never learned to walk triggers anyway, so I'm ok.

[xero28]

The trigger rod is too long. I think xero mentioned the same problem. I suspect all of the cheaters work like this too.

It wouldn't take too much work to shave it down a little but from what xero mentioned, the rod is a bit thin and can bend.

btw, I do not own a cheater... only speculating based on the feedback that I've read :)

Yeah, it just means that the trigger rod is a bit too long. Like vf-xx said, just shave down the rod a little bit at a time until you get it to where you need it, and I do mean A LITTLE at a time. It's true though too about what VF said about walking, it's fun and all to walk the trigger, but in all honesty my style of play will most likely be fanning or single shooting.

[vf-xx]

Course it'll get easier whenever I get around to finding and installing the roller that my trigger is modded for.

[Spider-TW]

Everyone that I have talked to about pneumags all say that ULTs do not work as reliably with it. The cheater does not have a return spring on the piston, so it relies soley on the return action of the sear to reset it.

Quite frankly I have been having nothing but problems with mine in one of my classic RTs. After tinkering with it this week some more, and judging from the way its acting and the marks the sear are making on it, the cheater unit is not letting the sear come all the way forward. I can get it to work with a very short on/off pin, but it runs away. It will not work at all with the standard size RT pin. It's an easy fix, but since I paid a premium for it I will prefer to have Zap make the modifications to mine.

My only ULT is definitely picky, pneu'd or not. I think the stem oring is tight, but I don't have a replacement.

I'm wondering if your classic RT problem could be from the 1/32" that the classic RT has offset from the other frames. I didn't notice, did Zap test with a classic RT?

[BigEvil]

My only ULT is definitely picky, pneu'd or not. I think the stem oring is tight, but I don't have a replacement.

I'm wondering if your classic RT problem could be from the 1/32" that the classic RT has offset from the other frames. I didn't notice, did Zap test with a classic RT?


Not sure. I have a few simple suguestions for him so that he could make these things more adjustable.

[jade_monkey07]

adjustable in what way?