Prophecy Or Rotor?

[El Camino]

Which one is a better loader, Empire Prophecy or Dye Rotor? Why?

[Gadget]

Big thread on the subject here:

http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=246305

This should really be in Paintball Talk rather than Friendly corner.

[Shirow]

Link is good, the gist is, Rotor isn't worth 50% more, really.

[El Camino]

Thanks for the info(link). Sorry about posting on the wrong forum

[kwood]

my vote is on the prophecy
i love it
and if your batteries go down (if to dumb and play with crappy batteries) you still have the rip drive
the rotor, you pretty much hosed if your batteries are dead
plus they look better on a mag :cheers:

[smeek]

I wouldn't compare battery life with the rotor it should never die on the field for you due to batteries. I used the same set of 3 lithium AA's for most of the summer playing probably a good 5 or 6 months of playing 3-4 times per month and shooting 2 cases most days. I can't say that for any of the halos I've owned, while not owning a prophecy I've had every halo other than the prophecy. The rotor just works while the halos tend to be finicky and not work as well.

Before the price drop of the prophecy it was no contest for me Rotor wins hands down but the price drop on the prophecy changes things. However why did the price drop so drastically, good will or was the rotor getting too popular?

[Shirow]

I wouldn't compare battery life with the rotor it should never die on the field for you due to batteries. I used the same set of 3 lithium AA's for most of the summer playing probably a good 5 or 6 months of playing 3-4 times per month and shooting 2 cases most days. I can't say that for any of the halos I've owned, while not owning a prophecy I've had every halo other than the prophecy. The rotor just works while the halos tend to be finicky and not work as well.

Before the price drop of the prophecy it was no contest for me Rotor wins hands down but the price drop on the prophecy changes things. However why did the price drop so drastically, good will or was the rotor getting too popular?

Well, I think the Rotor was selling pretty well.. it's a popular loader and I think a lot of peoples viewpoint was 'if it's Dye, it must be good and if it's only $10 more than a Prophecy, I'll get the Rotor'

When you look at some of the specifics, I think the Prophecy wins in a number of factors.. at a price point that is $50 less than the Rotor, I think people look more closely.

Just my assumption.

[Sneaky Sir]

My vote is that if you can, get your hands on both and try them out on your marker, they both have very distinct ways they sit on the marker and it is definitely up to your perference at that point. Personally I just the Prophecy because I always liked how Halos sat on my marker and it balances well with my setup. The Rotor on the other hand just wasn't for me. Little back heavy on my marker and almost too small of a hopper. But thats me, my roommate on the other hand will say the opposite, he'll vote the Rotor hands down. But I hope you have an opportunity to test both out first before commiting to a big purchase.

[A-Tach-One]

I wouldn't compare battery life with the rotor it should never die on the field for you due to batteries. I used the same set of 3 lithium AA's for most of the summer playing probably a good 5 or 6 months of playing 3-4 times per month and shooting 2 cases most days. I can't say that for any of the halos I've owned, while not owning a prophecy I've had every halo other than the prophecy. The rotor just works while the halos tend to be finicky and not work as well.

Before the price drop of the prophecy it was no contest for me Rotor wins hands down but the price drop on the prophecy changes things. However why did the price drop so drastically, good will or was the rotor getting too popular?
I agree with this post.

I only picked up a Prophecy last week because of the price drop. It will be fun to try it out.

[temilotzin]

I love my Rotor!
Fast, power efficient, easy to take apart!

[CatoRockwell]

I've tried both out, while I still haven't upgraded to one or the other I personally like the Rotor, but a lot came down to the fact that dye tried to cater to woodsballers by having a camouflage hopper. All I can get from the prophecy is black. :(

Both are very nice and will outperform any marker, so don't worry about performance, my friends and I have debated the rotor, prophecy, pinokio thing for months, honestly it's all coming down to preference.

Just pray that Dye gets competitive and lowers the price of the rotor :)

[Gadget]

I think capacity is possibly the only issue with the Rotor - it can be difficult to dump the whole of a 140 ball pot in if you've still got 20-30 balls left....and impossible with the speedfeed on. There's a high-cap shell for it, but that looks awful and destroys the sleek lines.

I'd like to try a Prophecy out of interest, however I find the Rotor to be awesome. Batteries last a ridiculous amount of time - seriously, months, it's built like a tank, has a nice simple board with clicky button and can be stripped in seconds.

I think you'd be onto a winner with either - I loved my Halo, but it's nothing compared to these babies - just the thought of having to spend 15 minutes with a screwdriver stripping the thing down gives me the heebies :)

[smeek]

Well seeing the LTD kit for the prophecy recently released, I'm sure that has a bit to do with the price drop. The way I look at it, both the prophecy and rotor will work well for you if maintained properly. The Prophecy has the potential to be a better loader (especially with the new LTD upgrade) although it requires a bit of electrical tuning thus being less user friendly. The rotor I push a button and it feeds paint, I push the same button and it stops feeding paint, it's extremely user friendly, and I've found nothing that needs tuning or adjusting on mine so I have no complaints, yet.

[Jaron]

You can read my review on the Prophecy here (http://www.invertog.net/paintball-gear-reviews/460-empire-prophecy-loader.html). For me, I chose the Prophecy over the Rotor due to the higher ball capacity, lower profile, and the extra settings since I like to tune things.

[d4m4don3]

If you don't like to tinker or are bad at tinkering, the rotor would probably suit you. It's easier to clean down to the component level than the prophecy. Otherwise for guys that like to tweak their hopper the prophecy can do the job in spades, and not too difficult to take apart.

[Enemy]

since this wasnt said id take the prophecy simple because simon is more willing to work with customers on any issues his loaders have while dye is more adept to if its not completely manufactuer defect your on your own.. other than that they both feed paint fast... really fast and they both have good strong shells on them.

Oh and yes there are some tuning things that can be done with the rotor, trackers was only feeding 13 bps until he adjusted a few things now its up to speed.

[usagi_tetsu]

Can't remember who said it, think it was Mike from TechPB.com, but somewhere I saw someone on a video talking about the differences between the Rotor, Prophecy, and Pinokio and it boiled down to personal preference. All of them are of a similar performance and price, and can be had for significantly cheaper from the used market, cheap enough that you should be able to afford purchasing any of them. And considering how popular they are, if the one you bought doesn't work for you, you can easily turn around and sell it back on the used market and expect to make most or all of your purchase price back (if you bought it used), and pick up the one you didn't try.

That being said, you might also look into the Empire Invert Too. It's based on the Halo platform with performance to match (so say the reviewers), but at a far lower price point ($70 brand spanky new).

[Shirow]

Can't remember who said it, think it was Mike from TechPB.com, but somewhere I saw someone on a video talking about the differences between the Rotor, Prophecy, and Pinokio and it boiled down to personal preference. All of them are of a similar performance and price, and can be had for significantly cheaper from the used market, cheap enough that you should be able to afford purchasing any of them. And considering how popular they are, if the one you bought doesn't work for you, you can easily turn around and sell it back on the used market and expect to make most or all of your purchase price back (if you bought it used), and pick up the one you didn't try.

That being said, you might also look into the Empire Invert Too. It's based on the Halo platform with performance to match (so say the reviewers), but at a far lower price point ($70 brand spanky new).

For only $20-30 more you can pickup a Prophecy though. For me, it was worth another $20 for the added features.

[CatoRockwell]

honestly I don't know why the invert too went up in price. I picked mine up at D-Day for $40 new. They had one heck of a market has the best low budget hopper, now they don't have much of a market considering your other options for $70+.

Needless to say, I got a steal of a deal for $40. Yet I still want the rotor. Has anyone seen the durability test by Dye?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdqKg0PIXfY
:wow:

I play up in the woods in the rain & snow sometimes, I am once again 100% sold on this hopper. I have several woodsball buddies who swear by the durability of this thing.

[Shirow]

honestly I don't know why the invert too went up in price. I picked mine up at D-Day for $40 new. They had one heck of a market has the best low budget hopper, now they don't have much of a market considering your other options for $70+.

Needless to say, I got a steal of a deal for $40. Yet I still want the rotor. Has anyone seen the durability test by Dye?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdqKg0PIXfY
:wow:

I play up in the woods in the rain & snow sometimes, I am once again 100% sold on this hopper. I have several woodsball buddies who swear by the durability of this thing.

Have you seen the video of Simon hitting the Prophecy with a hammer?

Durability wise they both look to be pretty good to me.

[CatoRockwell]

No i haven't. Linkey?

[Shirow]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5Eic0abJtA

It's pretty impressive.

Now, I have heard about issues with their feednecks but I've heard about the Rotor popping apart if you slide into a bunker hard too so who knows.

The way I looked at it right now was like this:

Pros of the Prophecy:

Much cheaper
Rip drive
Better capacity
Wider loading mouth
More configurable

Cons of the Prophecy:

Takes more batteries and supposedly has worse battery life
Not as aesthetically pleasing (to me)

Pros of the Rotor:

More aesthetically pleasing (to me)
Better battery life
Allegedly more durable than the Prophecy (although I crossed this off after seeing that video)

Cons:

Costs 50% more
Small loading mouth
Small capacity
No rip drive

When I asked around, everyone I knew that had a Rotor was happy with it but they couldn't really cite anything that made them pick it that didn't come down to 'it looks cool and it's made by Dye'. Supposedly it's more durable.. but from that Youtube video the Prophecy looks durable.

Supposedly it's easier to setup - just plug and play - but I've still heard that it breaks paint so to me, I'd rather have the configurability of the Prophecy.

Supposedly, it gets better battery life.. well, I don't play THAT much so that wasn't a huge deal to me.

Otherwise, everything else looked like a downside to me.

On Black Friday, you could pick up a Prophecy for $90... I just couldn't justify spending $60 more on a hopper that I didn't see any tangible benefit to owning over the Prophecy. I spent more time considering Pinokio vs Prophecy than Rotor, honestly.

[CatoRockwell]

thats cool, why is it that I hear a lot about the feedneck cracking? Maybe just stupid agglets, but it seemed the like from the players at local fields that those with Rotor's had a more durable hopper. While the prophecy was more customizable it was much less durable. Or so I've been told.

[Shirow]

thats cool, why is it that I hear a lot about the feedneck cracking? Maybe just stupid agglets, but it seemed the like from the players at local fields that those with Rotor's had a more durable hopper. While the prophecy was more customizable it was much less durable. Or so I've been told.

I have heard the same thing about the feedneck. Apparently it's fixed. You can buy an aluminum feedneck insert for $20 online, I'm waiting to see how solid mine is before I do it.

I don't play much speedball anyway, what I've heard about the feedneck has mostly been 'I slid hard into a bunker and it broke off' so it wasn't a huge concern to me either.

The video shows Simon whacking the feedneck with a hammer while it's in a vice so, I dunno.

Either way, it wasn't enough to put me off buying it. Even if you add in the cost of the aluminum feedneck, it's still ~$40 cheaper than a Rotor.

[Jaron]

My Prophecy feedneck cracked, but it wasn't my doing. I lent it to some teammates so they had some extra gear for the Randy Couture event ( sadly I couldn't go. ) When it came back, the back half of the feedneck was gone. Whoever used it wasn't one of my guys and I'm betting he really cranked down on it. I play with a pretty tight clamp on the feedneck and I've never had it happen to me. But I was looking for an excuse to get the green accent shells anyway. ;)

As I said, my deciding factor was the higher ball capacity with the lowest profile. The stock Rotor and the 200 nose Prophecy are about the same size. But the high-cap Rotor shell adds significantly to the height while the Prophecy noses don't, only in length. I tend to lay a lot of cover fire and having 280 rounds in such a low profile loader is very helpful. I can't deny the benefits of the 400 rounds in a Pinokio, but it also sits so much higher that either the Prophecy or the Rotor.

[Pump Scout]

The vast majority of the early cracking problems were with the black shells. Early runs were too brittle, IIRC. The smoke ones have been mostly sans-problems.

[Shirow]

Well, my Prophecy arrived today and I'll tell you one thing I don't like about it - the stupid battery case. You have to flex the floor to try and squeeze it out and it's just a plastic box on the end of a wire. I can see that being one of the first things to get damaged/broken.

Granted, it probably wouldn't be very hard to repair but it seems like a bad design to me.

Apart from that, I'm pretty impressed - it's fairly light, I dumped a bunch of different sized paint in it and it fed well. I can see that it's probably a bit of a nightmare to fully strip down the first time but you can get to pretty much everything with just the nose cone off. Unless it broke, I can't see ever needing to fully strip it.

The magnetic lid is nice, the feedmouth is HUGE and it's not really that hard to configure. The default settings seem to be pretty sensible.

I'm glad I bought it overall.

[Pump Scout]

You did unhook the tab up front for the battery pack, right? Mine slides right out, although I tend to leave it in there unhooked.

[Shirow]

You did unhook the tab up front for the battery pack, right? Mine slides right out, although I tend to leave it in there unhooked.

Yes, I just don't like the fact that it's basically a free hanging plastic box on a wire.

[Daze]

Supposedly it's easier to setup - just plug and play - but I've still heard that it breaks paint so to me, I'd rather have the configurability of the Prophecy.
I'm a bigger fan of the prophecy, but to give Dye its due all of the Rotors I've seen with breaking issues have been set up to push paint as fast as they can. People have to figure out that slowing down the system is the best way to feed fragile paint. For some reason though, folks would rather drop test at 30bps and blend during the tourney than just run the hopper at its 20 bps settings...

[Shirow]

I'm a bigger fan of the prophecy, but to give Dye its due all of the Rotors I've seen with breaking issues have been set up to push paint as fast as they can. People have to figure out that slowing down the system is the best way to feed fragile paint. For some reason though, folks would rather drop test at 30bps and blend during the tourney than just run the hopper at its 20 bps settings...

Yeah, I figured this might be the case. I'm going to try running my Prophecy stock this weekend and see how it goes. Granted, I won't be plowing through paint fast since I'm still shooting my un-pneu'ed mag but at least I'll get to try it out before my Cheater gets here :)

[El Camino]

Wooooow, :wow: one thread I'm off the fence looking at Rotor, the next thread I've jumped the fence looking at Prophecy, now I'm back straddling the fence, :tard: but it looks like whichever way I go, I'll still end with a great loader. :clap: I think I'll wait till after Christmas and see if someone sells their gift (loader). Thanks everyone for your input!! :cheers:

[Shirow]

Wooooow, :wow: one thread I'm off the fence looking at Rotor, the next thread I've jumped the fence looking at Prophecy, now I'm back straddling the fence, :tard: but it looks like whichever way I go, I'll still end with a great loader. :clap: I think I'll wait till after Christmas and see if someone sells their gift (loader). Thanks everyone for your input!! :cheers:

I was in the exact same place as you, what really ended up pushing me was the price drop on Prophecy. I just can't see justifying the 50-60$ premium on the Rotor. Who knows what will happen over Christmas though. It looks like Dye's response is a free speedfeed with the Rotor which is nice if you want a speedfeed I guess..

[PBChappy]

have owned 3 rotors (all used) and love them only play woods ball but they work fine but i have never used a prophecy and would love to try one just to set them side by side and play

[Jaron]

Yes, I just don't like the fact that it's basically a free hanging plastic box on a wire.
You can remove the whole floor as well. As for a box hanging on a wire, if you orient the battery pack correctly, the chassis holds it pretty well. And the nose also locks the pack in place as well. As for full disassembly, yeah it's not the easiest, but really how often to you need to do a complete tear down?

[Shirow]

You can remove the whole floor as well. As for a box hanging on a wire, if you orient the battery pack correctly, the chassis holds it pretty well. And the nose also locks the pack in place as well. As for full disassembly, yeah it's not the easiest, but really how often to you need to do a complete tear down?

No disagreement here, I'd just prefer it wasn't a box on the end of a wire :)

[Jaron]

On the plus side the pack can be disconnected from the wire, unlike some harnesses.

[CatoRockwell]

If only the prophecy had some different looks. I really want a camo hopper. Anyone know if simon is planning on catering to us scenario/woodsballers? I hear great things about empire but everything they release is in flashy tourney colors

[Jaron]

You can get color accent back shells ( I just picked up some green ones, ) but that's about it so far. If I'm worried about camo while outside I just wrap it in a cover I made from a cheap camo T-shirt.

[manike]

No disagreement here, I'd just prefer it wasn't a box on the end of a wire :)

I always disconnect the wire snapcap before removing the battery box from the tray.

There will be some more looks coming shortly, I don't have a release date yet though.

Olive is definitely on the list.

We are working on some other very cool stuff for it too. ;)

[Shirow]

On the plus side the pack can be disconnected from the wire, unlike some harnesses.

Yeah, I don't think it's going to be a big deal and I agree it's nice that it can be disconnected. It just feels.. I don't know. Flimsy, I guess. The rest of the loader feels so solid it just seemed like a bad design on that part.

I do like the loader overall though, especially for the price.

[CatoRockwell]

I always disconnect the wire snapcap before removing the battery box from the tray.

There will be some more looks coming shortly, I don't have a release date yet though.

Olive is definitely on the list.

We are working on some other very cool stuff for it too. ;)

wow that's neat that you would take I interest in our discussion.

An olive drab body would be great! It would be even cooler if you did some camo especially multicam. I know that speedball is a very lucrative market, but there is a big
scenario/woodsballers market as well. I appreciate you letting me know about this. Keep me posted.

[Shirow]

Shot my Prophecy for the first time today, ~30f outside and it performed flawlessly. Really happy with it!

[Pump Scout]

In only vaguely related news, I picked up a 280 round nose for mine today while on a lengthy roadtrip. Looks a little comical, but not as much as past high-cap hoppers (VL3000 and Viagra Pinokio come to mind!).

[Shirow]

In only vaguely related news, I picked up a 280 round nose for mine today while on a lengthy roadtrip. Looks a little comical, but not as much as past high-cap hoppers (VL3000 and Viagra Pinokio come to mind!).

Yeah, both of the other nose cones look alright.. but they are both uglier than the 240 IMO.

[Jaron]

Yeah, the 280 nose isn't as sleek as the stock one. But after using it this weekend, I'm hooked. I played a close quarters urban field and played the back. Games were short, usually under 10 minutes, and I didn't reload on the field once.

[manike]

Yeah the "Limousine" front is ugly, but very functional!

[Jaron]

Simon, a quick question on the boat nose. I notice the tab from the back shell halves fit flush against the stock nose, but it hangs down a little from the top of the 280. Have you ever had any problems or complaints about paint breaking or getting cut inside from hitting that top tab? Hopefully this makes sense.

[manike]

Jaron, In all of our testing and playing we have never found it to be an issue. If you wanted to though you could very easily round those edges a little with a sharp knife or piece of sandpaper. It wouldn't do any harm.

[Jaron]

Good to know, just wanted to get it straight from the source.

[CatoRockwell]

What is the duraibilty of your prophecy in regards to weather? How well does it hold up in water and snow?

[Jaron]

It held up just fine to the scorching heat and sand of the northern Arizona desert. I typically don't play in the snow since I don't care to deal with the wet and cold if I can avoid it.

[PBChappy]

after just playing around i found the my mag out shoots my rotor when connected to my scuba tank

[Shirow]

after just playing around i found the my mag out shoots my rotor when connected to my scuba tank

You should totally call up Empire and complain.

[Jaron]

What is the duraibilty of your prophecy in regards to weather? How well does it hold up in water and snow?Oh, and I forgot to say, my teammate and I were demonstrating the shell strength to some other people. So to prove the point he put the nose on the ground and stood on it.

[Shirow]

What is the duraibilty of your prophecy in regards to weather? How well does it hold up in water and snow?

I obviously can't add too much to this since I've only used it once so far but I played with it this weekend in 30f weather, was wet and somewhat snowy out.

I generally try to keep my marker out of water etc but it was inevitable during this game that it would get dirty/wet. Prophecy performed flawlessly.. I actually started to get a slight barrel leak which I attributed to the cold but the Prophecy kept on chugging. No breaks in the hopper, shot great.. I was really happy with it, helped me feel like I made the right decision.