Smart Parts will be closed at the end of the month !!

[fishmishin]

Hey guys I got it from a confirmed source today that SP will be done at the end of the month.

[Shirow]

No offense but.. haven't I heard this story before?

Would be interesting if it really turns out to be true though.

[going_home]

Hey guys I got it from a confirmed source today that SP will be done at the end of the month.

Why ?

:eek:

[Shirow]

Why ?

:eek:

Christmas came early this year

[Stayhuge]

Doin the Happy Dance
:dance: :dance: :dance:
:dance: :dance: :dance:
:dance: :dance:

[ElPanda]

this would be awesome

[Wrathbringer]

First it started with the rumour of MASSIVE layoffs at the company, then the closing of SP in Europe I believe, and now this.

Maybe third time's a charm?

[vf-xx]

As was said before. The people are still around, they're just hiding behind GI Milsim.

Wonder if this means I can get a stupid cheap shocker soon.

[zondo]

As was said before. The people are still around, they're just hiding behind GI Milsim.

Wonder if this means I can get a stupid cheap shocker soon.

Take care of it too. It'll soon be "rare".

[SSP REAPER]

Yes it is confirmed. My inside source tells me as of January Smart Parts doors will be closed for good. there are currently ZERO markers or parts on the shelves and the warehouse in California has also been cleared out. I was also told that most marker companies offering a .50 conversion kit have scrapped their plans to offer them. maybe this is the end we have all been waiting for?

5 out of 5 bananas!

:dance: :dance: :dance: :dance: :dance:

[WenULiVeUdiE]

And where did you hear this? Anything official or do we just have to trust you?

[SSP REAPER]

And where did you hear this? Anything official or do we just have to trust you?
I heard it directly from the Sales Accounts manager himself 2 days ago. I tried to order a SP marker for a customer and that's when the news broke.

[zondo]

Yes it is confirmed. My inside source tells me as of January Smart Parts doors will be closed for good. there are currently ZERO markers or parts on the shelves and the warehouse in California has also been cleared out. I was also told that most marker companies offering a .50 conversion kit have scrapped their plans to offer them. maybe this is the end we have all been waiting for?

5 out of 5 bananas!

:dance: :dance: :dance: :dance: :dance:

So is this the demise of 50 cal too?? Or will GI Milsim keep it running?

[WenULiVeUdiE]

Well that's a pretty damn good source...

[fishmishin]

Yes it is confirmed. My inside source tells me as of January Smart Parts doors will be closed for good. there are currently ZERO markers or parts on the shelves and the warehouse in California has also been cleared out. I was also told that most marker companies offering a .50 conversion kit have scrapped their plans to offer them. maybe this is the end we have all been waiting for?

5 out of 5 bananas!

:dance: :dance: :dance: :dance: :dance:

Yeah I, found out when the warehouse called and told me to box up all of my Ion's because they were coming out of the store. Then I was told why, same thing you got Sterling. Let me know what marker your customer wants, and I will see if we have it in stock for you before we blow out what we have left in stock. I'll shoot you my #.

[BigEvil]

While I too revel at the chance to dance on the graves of Smart Parts, let's also hope that the brothers Grim will find better things to do than reap anymore legal whirlwinds upon the paintball world in their new found spare time

:dance: :dance: :dance: :dance: :dance:

[Shirow]

While I too revel at the chance to dance on the graves of Smart Parts, let's also hope that the brothers Grim will find better things to do than reap anymore legal whirlwinds upon the paintball world in their new found spare time

:dance: :dance: :dance: :dance: :dance:

Where's the dancing broccoli when you need it?

[Ratt]

An infinite amount of dancing bananas cannot express the joy and glee I feel at this moment. Neither can the 'clapping hands'. We need to make a new Smilie in celebration of this momentous occasion...

[going_home]

Where's the dancing broccoli when you need it?

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/__V0zADINq3s/STMVhsyTLdI/AAAAAAAAAMo/ppYT7nZzfXE/s320/Broccoli_Obama.jpg


:rolleyes:

[doc_Zox]

http://premium1.uploadit.org/docZox//AGDblack.jpg

[fishmishin]

http://premium1.uploadit.org/docZox//AGDblack.jpg


THAT IS AWESOME !!

[SkinnyHare]

long live the 'Mag :cheers:

[cockerpunk]

sadly, it looks like the gardners will will still be in the paintball business. GI milsim is a totally different company officially and that company has serious capital.





the word i herd, and the reason why companies might be scraping the 50 cal conversion kits is because SP offered companies some discount on the E-gun patent if they publicly showed that they were working on something 50 cal.

with smart parts out of the picture, that patent is up for grabs.

[thejere]

Because quality doesn't reek havoc on the sport then go out of business

[fishmishin]

Because quality doesn't reek havoc on the sport then go out of business
:rofl:

[AGD]

Who would have EVER thought that AGD would still be selling product after Autococker and SP were gone. I wonder who they will claim is going out of business now???

I am sure the dealers still think we suck. I guess they can buy Tippy's and Kingman to stay in business.

AGD

[punkncat]

Maybe time to re-release rental mags....perhaps a "demo kit" that comes with the equipment you need to clean a mag......a bucket to put the water in....lol.

[Sneaky Sir]

Maybe time to re-release rental mags....perhaps a "demo kit" that comes with the equipment you need to clean a mag......a bucket to put the water in....lol.

Also a bucket of oil :)

[going_home]

Maybe time to re-release rental mags....perhaps a "demo kit" that comes with the equipment you need to clean a mag......a bucket to put the water in....lol.


http://www.zakvetter.com/paintball_videos/automag_stress_test.mov


:D

[CatoRockwell]

sadly, it looks like the gardners will will still be in the paintball business. GI milsim is a totally different company officially and that company has serious capital.





the word i herd, and the reason why companies might be scraping the 50 cal conversion kits is because SP offered companies some discount on the E-gun patent if they publicly showed that they were working on something 50 cal.

with smart parts out of the picture, that patent is up for grabs.

ASSUMING that the patent was part of the collateral SP used to get funding. If not then those 2 parasites will have the industry by the balls.

[Shirow]

Who would have EVER thought that AGD would still be selling product after Autococker and SP were gone. I wonder who they will claim is going out of business now???

I am sure the dealers still think we suck. I guess they can buy Tippy's and Kingman to stay in business.

AGD

Time for AGD's mighty comeback?

[Ratt]

Time for AGD's mighty comeback?

I hate to get my hopes up, but I can't help it. I want to hold on to the notion that AGD will finally make its long-awaited comeback.

[going_home]

I hate to get my hopes up, but I can't help it. I want to hold on to the notion that AGD will finally make its long-awaited comeback.

It will be fun to watch what new innovative stuff Tom comes up with when the SP electronic patent is no more !

And Aaron K. Alexander too !

;)

[skipdogg]

Best Day Ever!!!
Best Day Ever!!!
Best Day Ever!!!

I feel like punching myself in the face right now I'm so happy!

[Looper]

Karma

[flyingpootang]

Has anyone read this on any other forum? Also http://www.smartpartseurope.co.uk/ site is still up and running.

[Bigwooly1013]

reading this made this song pop into my head....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bE4icQMfMhc&feature=related

[Frizzle Fry]

Has anyone read this on any other forum? Also http://www.smartpartseurope.co.uk/ site is still up and running.

I've spoken with several dealers who haven't been able to get anything from SmartParts for weeks. A friend at "one of Bostons major paintball stores" has confirmed that he recieved a similar message from an SP sales associate when he was trying to order Vibes a few days ago... Also, what little he was able to get from SP for the last month came with odd paperwork that didn't look like the usual bills, receipts and letters.

You'll notice that the SmartCorps site and forum was active for quite some time after the branch was closed (though it could have been because Daryl from LUXE was still on payroll) and though no longer active it still is "up" and accessable.




I'm not going to clap. This was the innevitable, I was just waiting for it to happen and it did.

I did wish pretty hard at some points... Perhaps I have magic powers?



The question is, do I buy up all the Freak inserts I can while they're still around? That's about the only thing they did right IMHO. Cheap insert kits.

[OneUp]

Tom Kay patents HPA.

Sues GI Milsim.

Game over? :ninja:

[going_home]

The question is, do I buy up all the Freak inserts I can while they're still around? That's about the only thing they did right IMHO. Cheap insert kits.

I've always like the Freak kits.
But if you have inserts why would you need more, they dont wear out or anything.
You know White Wolf Airsmithing has been making Freak barrel backs and tips for years, maybe he will do inserts now also ?


:confused:

[JaNordy]

Not just yet guys, DLX and GI is still around, but it is one step closer. Karma still has some work left to be done.

[mostpeople]

sadly, it looks like the gardners will will still be in the paintball business. GI milsim is a totally different company officially and that company has serious capital.





the word i herd, and the reason why companies might be scraping the 50 cal conversion kits is because SP offered companies some discount on the E-gun patent if they publicly showed that they were working on something 50 cal.

with smart parts out of the picture, that patent is up for grabs.


Well that's really the million dollar question isn't it? What IS going to happen to those goddarn patents? Im pretty sure the ambiguously gay duo (gardner bros.) will hold some sort of control or sell to the highest bidder.

[MoeMag]

My word. I cannot belive I am reading this thread.

AGD!

[Frizzle Fry]

I've always like the Freak kits.
But if you have inserts why would you need more, they dont wear out or anything.

I used to use Scepter, never had a problem with it other than cost. As is, I have 8 markers with Freak barrels. I have a full set of SS inserts and a full set of aluminum. Unfortunately, I've had inserts damaged in the past and needed to replace them... I take care of my markers so well that I've got mint PTP cockers that I bought new in '95 and have played with regularly since, but I've managed to squish two inserts, dent one, and had another one wear down from use and oxidize.





Tom Kay patents HPA.

Only sues GI Milsim and LUXE but does not restrict other companies unless they practice "bad business".

Game over? :ninja:


Game over man, GAME OVER!

[mostpeople]

hahahahaha

that would be friggin hilarious

I say do it

[om3n]

:dance: :dance: :dance:

^^this

[Smoothice]

posting in an epic thread :D

[DeuceSV]

I better go buy up all the 100 dollar Ions I can find on craigslist right now!

[Jaron]

Will be very interesting to see if AGD will have a resurgence now.

[SCpoloRicker]

Cynical poster is cynical.

[Tunaman]

Who would have EVER thought that AGD would still be selling product after Autococker and SP were gone. I wonder who they will claim is going out of business now???

I am sure the dealers still think we suck. I guess they can buy Tippy's and Kingman to stay in business.

AGD
ME! ;) :D

[doc_Zox]

http://premium1.uploadit.org/docZox//FrankenTom.jpg

[mostpeople]

http://premium1.uploadit.org/docZox//FrankenTom.jpg


v-v-v-v-errrryyyy niiiiiiicceee!!!!

[nuclear zombie]

I won't believe it until it happens, and if it does happen I'll be nervously expecting a Houdini trick where they come back a month later.

[Watcher]

Will we hear of any high end mechanicals in stores after this? :D

[Frizzle Fry]

I am sure the dealers still think we suck. I guess they can buy Tippy's and Kingman to stay in business.

AGD

I'm sure you know that Boston Paintball is one of the bigger stores / chains in Massachusetts and has been around for ages...

In the last year or so I have not seen a single Shocker on the wall there. They didn't even bother to order the new Impulse, and the few IONs they have are 2 years old. The only SP markers they ordered in any numbers (and we're still only talking a dozen or so) were the VIBE and the SP-1 which are currently collecting dust.

They make their money off DYE/Proto and Eclipse/Etek for electros, Tippmann and BT for mechs, and the occasional Spyder in either electro or mechanical. Granted, there are a few DP G3s on the wall, and there have been BL Marqs and Victorys, but they haven't moved nearly as fast as the rest.

I'm sure Boston Paintball would carry TacOnes and ULE Pros and see if they sold. I'm sure they would sell, too. The only hesitance I've ever seen in buyers when it comes to AGD comes from the fact that a $500 mechanical seems scary when you look and it's not covered in MilSim crap... The whole "mags are hard to tech" rumor seems to have been put to death.

[fishmishin]

I'm sure you know that Boston Paintball is one of the bigger stores / chains in Massachusetts and has been around for ages...

In the last year or so I have not seen a single Shocker on the wall there. They didn't even bother to order the new Impulse, and the few IONs they have are 2 years old. The only SP markers they ordered in any numbers (and we're still only talking a dozen or so) were the VIBE and the SP-1 which are currently collecting dust.

Shockers haven't sold well in over a year, even used ones. I have had several ION's in the store over the last year, and they haven't sold very well either, nobody wanted them, they just didn't want to buy into the SP BS. That and the fact that SP flooded the market with ION's, and it seems a lot of people want something different. Don't get me wrong I probably sold around 25-30 SP markers this year, but that is a lot less than were sold the years before. All I can say is good riddance, I am glad to see them go. I am sorry that so many people have lost there jobs in the process, but it isn't going to hurt my feelings to see SP gone.


Oh and Tom, our company is an AGD dealer. We don't look at AGD as junk and never have. It has gotten hard to sell a high end mech gun these days though. I have already begun to sway people towards AGD since I acame back to playing last year, and I expect that I will be able to help sway more people towards the company. I have always been an outside sales person for AGD so to speak and I will be pushing harder than ever now.

[Skeeter]

There are still plenty of stores with Mags on the wall (I have several). The platform is still worthy of retail space, and always will be. It is a bit harder to move the high-end mech markers, when all of the kiddies want a mouse click for a trigger, but we still stock & sell them.

About Smart Parts: When they backed out of the Expo on September, there were LOTS of rumors about their future. Rumor #1 was that they were leveraged by multiple banks, and had cut their work force from about 80 to about a dozen (possibly less). The industry as a whole, was pretty happy about this event. Lots of little jokes and smart-*** comments, but nobody came right out and stated that they wanted to see SP go under. I didn’t talk to a single person who was “sad” that SP was struggling.

Of course, there is also the alliance with Richmond for the GI-MilSim line. Regardless of what the industry desires, this alliance seems (or seemed) insistent on forcing .50 cal into the industry.

Rumor #2: Brothers Grim own all of the GI-MilSim patents, personally (not owned as part of SP)

Rumor #3: They used SP equity to “borrow” the startup money for GI-MilSim, KNOWING that they would let SP fail.

Put these factors together, and it falls into the Gardner Brothers SOP. Find a way to get $$, regardless of what effect it has on the industry. Letting SP fail is part of their plan. SP is up to it’s eyeballs in debt, but the intellectual property (that the bank can’t collect on) will belong to them, personally. They will rape whatever is left of SP, basically abandoning it, and giving the banks nothing to collect on. Now, all of the equity can be moved over to GI-MilSim, without the banks having any recourse. New company, with zero debt, founded by leveraging an existing company, then letting it fail. VERY scummy!

Now, all we have to do, is stand united AGAINST .50cal, and watch that fail too.


PS: Fun fact… The Brothers Grim also copyrighted “pwnd” & “n00b”… Why would anyone do this???

[Shirow]

Shockers haven't sold well in over a year, even used ones. I have had several ION's in the store over the last year, and they haven't sold very well either, nobody wanted them, they just didn't want to buy into the SP BS. That and the fact that SP flooded the market with ION's, and it seems a lot of people want something different. Don't get me wrong I probably sold around 25-30 SP markers this year, but that is a lot less than were sold the years before. All I can say is good riddance, I am glad to see them go. I am sorry that so many people have lost there jobs in the process, but it isn't going to hurt my feelings to see SP gone.


Oh and Tom, our company is an AGD dealer. We don't look at AGD as junk and never have. It has gotten hard to sell a high end mech gun these days though. I have already begun to sway people towards AGD since I acame back to playing last year, and I expect that I will be able to help sway more people towards the company. I have always been an outside sales person for AGD so to speak and I will be pushing harder than ever now.

I'd imagine it's probably somewhat easier now than it was 3 years ago, right? Still, a lot of people see the capability to drop 10+ bps with a twitch of the finger and it's hard to convince them 'no, you actually want a fully mechanical gun'

One of the tough things I think is that there is no longer an entry level AGD marker. When I got into paintball, I never would've bought a mag if the cheapest one I could get was $500. I bought a $150 classic when I started.. I dread to think what I've dumped into it so far but at the time, I wouldn't have paid much more than that.

I got a couple of friends into paintball recently, they both bought A5s because they were fairly cheap, they had built in hoppers and they could run them off CO2. If they could've picked up a new classic from an online store for $150, I think I could've swung them the other way.

[Smoothice]

I'm so excited to go into my local paintball store and ask for a rebuild kit.

And when they say (as they always do) "nobody has that stuff. They're out of business".

I can say "no, that's smart parts your thinking of..."

then I will come here and buy whatever I need from AGD or tunaman. :clap:

[Frizzle Fry]

"no, that's smart parts your thinking of..."

I'm totally going to use that line.



By the by, the fanboys over at SmartCorps apparently got wind of this thread and have said something along the lines of "it's just those silly AO'ers letting their imaginations run" and saying that if it was official, Smart Parts would have put out a press release or a Rep would tell people.

:rolleyes:

I know 2 people in "real life" who've got this news from SmartParts reps, and it looks like 2 (4?) more in this thread.

[Shirow]

I'm totally going to use that line.



By the by, the fanboys over at SmartCorps apparently got wind of this thread and have said something along the lines of "it's just those silly AO'ers letting their imaginations run" and saying that if it was official, Smart Parts would have put out a press release or a Rep would tell people.

:rolleyes:

I know 2 people in "real life" who've got this news from SmartParts reps, and it looks like 2 (4?) more in this thread.

I think I mentioned this in an earlier thread but I have also heard over the last few weeks from a store owner that he's been unable to get any parts whatsoever from SP. They just claim 'out of stock'. On everything? 'Yes'

[TeaQue]

Who would have EVER thought that AGD would still be selling product after Autococker and SP were gone. I wonder who they will claim is going out of business now???

I am sure the dealers still think we suck. I guess they can buy Tippy's and Kingman to stay in business.

AGD
Hah! My local store thought it was awesome that I was trying to source parts for an Automag build :p

I just got back into PB back in October after a 6yr hiatus and I've owned 3 mags already.

[DevilMan]

hmmmmmmm.... a solid yet fast mechanical mag that can compete with the "mouse-click" triggers of today's electro's??

I don't know how anyone could build such a thing... hmmmmm.. :ninja:

Oh and about SP... Too bad it's pretty much right on about borrowing against a company, letting it fail since all of the bad publicity and starting a new company, with no way to tie them together in the public eye. We may all know that they are related, but the general populace will not. That gives them the chance to make it work. Think we can get GI Milsim and any thing else they are attached to shut down???

Here's hoping.. :cheers:

DM

[Frizzle Fry]

Think we can get GI Milsim and any thing else they are attached to shut down???

Do we have to? This .50cal thing looks like it's going to tank (nothing local in Mass is carrying it and none that I've spoken to intend to order any) and Richmond Italia still has a non-competition clause hanging over him concerning .68cal markers. If anything, they're finally putting their eggs in one basket and it's likely they're going to trip and break them.





The only thing that concerns me is the trickyness of the Gardner boys...

Lately I've had the sneaking suspicion that they converted all of their SP markers to .50cal (easily adapted to .68, hence the obnoxiously thick walls of the body and the goofily small looking barrel) and sold them under a different name knowing that they'll fail. Then when nobody wants .50cal, they start boring the bodies for .68 again and seting up the same old SP-1s,Vibes and Impulses with a brand new name and company that was founded using SP funds.





What I wanna know is why they're "G.I. MilSim"... More three of their five markers are speedball guns.

The other two consist of a vaguely woodsball-designed speedball marker that doesn't simulate any military firearm, and a mech semi that has a mock magazine but otherwise doesn't look like a real firearm in any way, shape or form. As I recall, putting rails on an ION and a making an uglier twin brother to the JT Stealth is not "MilSim".

[Shirow]

Have you seen the 'comparison charts' on their guns too?

http://www.gimilsim.com/images/stories/specs/specs_Micro50_C.gif

What a freakin joke. They give their own gun an overall rating of 5 stars, including for value... I'll be sure to take that into account!

[Frizzle Fry]

http://www.gimilsim.com/images/stories/specs/specs_Micro50_C.gif

"Herm herm... According to our testing, our markers recieved 5 out of 5 stars in vague catergories with no parameters for judgement or other markers for comparison. As you can see, we put lots of little star shapes in the little boxes next to the name of the marker, with more little star shapes next to the expensive models so that you'll be more likely to buy them. Please excuse the catergories in which there are only 4 little star shapes; our star-shaped stamp ran out of ink and we've sent Steve out to OfficeDepot for more."

-Richmond Italia @ World Cup 2009
















*edit: He didn't actually say this. I know how lawsuit-happy the Gardners and their ilk are so I'm taking no chances :rolleyes:

[SSP REAPER]

I'm so excited to go into my local paintball store and ask for a rebuild kit.

And when they say (as they always do) "nobody has that stuff. They're out of business".

I can say "no, that's smart parts your thinking of..."

then I will come here and buy whatever I need from AGD or tunaman. :clap:
what about me Nik? :( :D

[Shirow]

"Herm herm... According to our testing, our markers recieved 5 out of 5 stars in vague catergories with no parameters for judgement or other markers for comparison. As you can see, we put lots of little star shapes in the little boxes next to the name of the marker, with more little star shapes next to the expensive models so that you'll be more likely to buy them. Please excuse the catergories in which there are only 4 little star shapes; our star-shaped stamp ran out of ink and we've sent Steve out to OfficeDepot for more."

-Richmond Italia @ World Cup 2009

*edit: He didn't actually say this. I know how lawsuit-happy the Gardners and their ilk are so I'm taking no chances :rolleyes:

'Appearance' is my favorite. 'Yes, this gun is one star uglier than our other guns but it makes up for it in value!'

But Rich, I like the look of this one better than your gun that has 5 stars for appearance!

'WELL, YOU ARE WRONG!'

[MAGslinger]

AGD should be proactive and start to expand. It's high time they come out from the shadows and re-release some of their products. They could cater to pump and stock class by re-releasing the Six-Pack, and then the E-Mag. The time has come.

[Frizzle Fry]

AGD should be proactive and start to expand. It's high time they come out from the shadows and re-release some of their products. They could cater to pump and stock class by re-releasing the Six-Pack, and then the E-Mag. The time has come.

My 6-pack doesn't like anything but Crosman 12ies. That said, a new Micro CA-II would be a hit.

[luke]

Yes it is confirmed. My inside source tells me as of January Smart Parts doors will be closed for good. there are currently ZERO markers or parts on the shelves and the warehouse in California has also been cleared out. I was also told that most marker companies offering a .50 conversion kit have scrapped their plans to offer them. maybe this is the end we have all been waiting for?
:

Their patents are still good, that is as long as they can afford to defend them in court. I'm very curious as to how this will pan out in the industry.

And then on the flip side, this is a very good(bad) indication of what is happening to the economy in this country, which in itself is bad news for everyone.

[Poe]

Have you seen the 'comparison charts' on their guns too?

http://www.gimilsim.com/images/stories/specs/specs_Micro50_C.gif

What a freakin joke. They give their own gun an overall rating of 5 stars, including for value... I'll be sure to take that into account!

To be fair it says "Comparison within the G.I. Milsim portfolio" so they are comparing the MICRO50 to all the other G.I Milsim guns.

Read that picture as:
-The MICRO50 shoots slower, weighs more, breaks down more frequently and looks uglier than our other markers...
..by 20%.
:)

[Shirow]

To be fair it says "Comparison within the G.I. Milsim portfolio" so they are comparing the MICRO50 to all the other G.I Milsim guns.

Read that picture as:
-The MICRO50 shoots slower, weighs more, breaks down more frequently and looks uglier than our other markers.

:)

Indeed, but even in that context, it's still ridiculous.

[xero28]

Here's a couple of quotes form SmartCorps forums:


Yeah the Ao guys seem to be the ones perpetuating these rumors on a monthly basis. What cracks me up is all the BS about the Magic Box and other SP mods for the Automags back in the day, yet what they fail to realize is AGD was contracted by SP to make/install these mods on PL Automags back in the day. Ironic, huh ?


The reason why its hard to order right now, is because one of the sales reps is out due to surgery right now.

She told me herself that they still have markers in stock, it's just taking a little while longer to ship out, as they have to make them first.

I contemplated including the last part of the first quote about the Magic Box and other SP mods, but I decided to include it because I was curious as to the answer. I didn't think that AGD actually contracted with SP for these mods, but that it was something that the end-user (the owner of the gun) had to send in to SP to have done. Anyone have any thoughts on this or actual knowledge as to who contracted those modifications?

I suppose The Man himself might have some input on that? :rolleyes:

By the way, I'm really not familiar with SmartCorps, this was the first time that I had ever even heard about it, so I don't know if there are other forums dedicated to SP. But I checked how many people are on the forum there and right now (9 AM, Tuesday morning) there are 0 members and 17 guests, with the most users ever online there being 61. Right now on AO there are 43 members and 60 guests. I guess all of the SP fanbois are over on PBN.

[Shirow]

Here's a couple of quotes form SmartCorps forums:





I contemplated including the last part of the first quote about the Magic Box and other SP mods, but I decided to include it because I was curious as to the answer. I didn't think that AGD actually contracted with SP for these mods, but that it was something that the end-user (the owner of the gun) had to send in to SP to have done. Anyone have any thoughts on this or actual knowledge as to who contracted those modifications?

I suppose The Man himself might have some input on that? :rolleyes:

By the way, I'm really not familiar with SmartCorps, this was the first time that I had ever even heard about it, so I don't know if there are other forums dedicated to SP. But I checked how many people are on the forum there and right now (9 AM, Tuesday morning) there are 0 members and 17 guests, with the most users ever online there being 61. Right now on AO there are 43 members and 60 guests. I guess all of the SP fanbois are over on PBN.

My guess would be that you pretty much have to be a giant tard to be a SP fan. What is there to be a fan of? Obnoxious marketing?

I can see making a decision to buy an Ion because it's cheap but actually being a 'fan' is a bit of a stretch.

[Frizzle Fry]

By the way, I'm really not familiar with SmartCorps, this was the first time that I had ever even heard about it, so I don't know if there are other forums dedicated to SP. But I checked how many people are on the forum there and right now (9 AM, Tuesday morning) there are 0 members and 17 guests, with the most users ever online there being 61. Right now on AO there are 43 members and 60 guests. I guess all of the SP fanbois are over on PBN.

SmartCorps was the failed "Woodsball" venture by SmartParts who were responsible for the SP-8. They stopped doing anything for a while after the SP-8 failed, then briefly became a sort of roving group who would teach basic playing skills (how to duck behind a bunker, how to yell at your teammates, how to run from one bunker to another, etc.) at events and shows.

They're headed by Daryl Trent, the head of LUXE who is currently on their payroll even though LUXE has nothing at all to do with SP. :rolleyes:

[Shirow]

There sure are some choice quotes on their site too.


hey guys, not sure if this one has gotten too far. but... up here in ontario, the competition and some other people *cough (KEE)* have been spreading a rumor that SP has claimed bankruptcy and is finally closing the doors. employee's have been bailing over to GI Milsim..
WRONG!!!!!
talking to someone who works for SP, dont know if i can say who. has said:
"SP has NOT filed Bankruptcy. That is false... and no, the door are not closed. They are STILL in business and shipping guns. I was there today. I saw it..."

so please people, if you hear more of these rumors, tell the people unless it comes from SP, they are full of ****!
SP has always been there for their customers. yes their customer service isnt the best, im still waiting for my 2006 catalog... but they have always made great stuff, made in north america and a good price.
they have been there for us and we need to be there for them. no body cared about tippmann being sued by H&K. why should it matter that a paintball leader had some layoffs.
lets stick together guys.

[Frizzle Fry]

There sure are some choice quotes on their site too.

No kidding. I don't believe SP has "made" anything in North America since 1998, other than a bad reputation for themselves.

[[NA]WARLORD]

Here's a couple of quotes form SmartCorps forums:





I contemplated including the last part of the first quote about the Magic Box and other SP mods, but I decided to include it because I was curious as to the answer. I didn't think that AGD actually contracted with SP for these mods, but that it was something that the end-user (the owner of the gun) had to send in to SP to have done. Anyone have any thoughts on this or actual knowledge as to who contracted those modifications?

I suppose The Man himself might have some input on that? :rolleyes:


Go here (http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?p=40793042#post40793042)

That was a year or so ago, when TK ventured over to the Nation for the great "Gardner Smackdown" as everyone called it. Tom talks about the magic box as well as other mods to the "PL" Automags.

[leloup]

What really worries me is that Smart Parts seemed to be fairly profitable. At all the fields I go to, if they don't have an ego, they have some form of SP markers (aside from woodsball tippmanns). The Super Gardio Bros have something diabolical in mind for sure.

[DeuceSV]

I have four friends (college-age and lower) who are all new to the sport.

I held their hands on their first days of play, and I let them play with my automags (a pneumag, a pump-mag, and a ULE intelli mech). Then I let them play around with my friend's '05 ego.

(without them knowing, of course) I filled the ego with low-grade field paint and watched the blender go to town.

Now they all shoot mags.
I'm telling you, all you need to do is let a new player shoot a few kids in the face with M1 Garand of paint ball markers and they will never pick anything else up.

...Unless its an Emag :cheers:

[TheePsycho]

"The reason why its hard to order right now, is because one of the sales reps is out due to surgery right now.

She told me herself that they still have markers in stock, it's just taking a little while longer to ship out, as they have to make them first."

Yeah I'm sorry a company doesn't shut down when one sales representative is under the weather. Companies employ more than one person to answer phones and sales calls. I call BS.

[Shirow]

"The reason why its hard to order right now, is because one of the sales reps is out due to surgery right now.

She told me herself that they still have markers in stock, it's just taking a little while longer to ship out, as they have to make them first."

Yeah I'm sorry a company doesn't shut down when one sales representative is under the weather. Companies employ more than one person to answer phones and sales calls. I call BS.

No way man! Once Joyce gets her hip replaced, Smart Parts will be back in business!

[Smoothice]

what about me Nik? :( :D

Did I forget to mention you?

You are my go to guy lately.

anything ccm, anything cp, anything goblin :D

SSP is the bomb! :headbang:

[robertsr1811]

"She told me herself that they still have markers in stock, it's just taking a little while longer to ship out, as they have to make them first."



Umm, WHAT?

We have markers in STOCK we just have to MAKE them???

If you have to make them, then they certainly aren't in stock.

[Shirow]

Umm, WHAT?

We have markers in STOCK we just have to MAKE them???

If you have to make them, then they certainly aren't in stock.

Maybe he meant 'make them work'

[Frizzle Fry]

Maybe he meant 'make them work'

Aha! So they have IONs in stock, then? :rofl:



But seriously. I have 1,000 Boeing 747s in stock. I just need some metal (I think) and mayb a hammer and possible some sort of power tools, perhaps a Dewalt cordless drill and maybe a rivet gun (or something) too. Anyone have a link to the "tuning a jet engine" thread? I think Cyberave made a drop in kit with a magnet return... Just let me lay off 95% of my staff and start a new company with all the money and employees I have left and we'll be ready to rock!

[Shirow]

Aha! So they have IONs in stock, then? :rofl:



But seriously. I have 1,000 Boeing 747s in stock. I just need some metal (I think) and mayb a hammer and possible some sort of power tools, perhaps a Dewalt cordless drill and maybe a rivet gun (or something) too. Anyone have a link to the "tuning a jet engine" thread? I think Cyberave made a drop in kit with a magnet return... Just let me lay off 95% of my staff and start a new company with all the money and employees I have left and we'll be ready to rock!

Sir,

I regret to inform you that you are violating my patent on making things with a drill. Please send me $1,000,000 or I will be very angry.

[Frizzle Fry]

Sir,

I regret to inform you that you are violating my patent on making things with a drill. Please send me $1,000,000 or I will be very angry.

But you, sir, are violating my patent by sending your "cease and desist" letters in digital or electronic form! It's a blanket patent for anything using electricity for the transmition of written information pertaining to paintball... Sure, people did it before me and patented it, but I've go SO much more money than them!

[MANN]

Ill believe it when I see it.

[Shirow]

But you, sir, are violating my patent by sending your "cease and desist" letters in digital or electronic form! It's a blanket patent for anything using electricity for the transmition of written information pertaining to paintball... Sure, people did it before me and patented it, but I've go SO much more money than them!

Well, you are violating my patent on using your fingers to depress anything to generate characters that passes along communication. I don't actually have a patent but you still owe me a trillion nickels.

[Lohman446]

Why does anyone think this would mean anything for the patents? Patents (and IP in general) is an asset that can be easily transferred.

[Shirow]

We like to live the dream

[Frizzle Fry]

Well, you are violating my patent on using your fingers to depress anything to generate characters that passes along communication related to paintball. I don't actually have a patent but you still owe me a trillion nickels.

Fixed it for you... I got your PM offer to send you 50% of my profits related to the use of a keyboard. I'm sorry to say that I'll have to go out of business. Thanks for "giving me a fair chance to license" though, the rest of the guys at Action Mar... Uh... My house will be OK I guess.

[Jaron]

Thanks for "giving me a fair chance to license" though,
Ah, I was just revisiting that PBN thread actually. Ahh, what a wonderful diversion.

[CatoRockwell]

WARLORD']Go here (http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?p=40793042#post40793042)

That was a year or so ago, when TK ventured over to the Nation for the great "Gardner Smackdown" as everyone called it. Tom talks about the magic box as well as other mods to the "PL" Automags.

was reading this thread and some jerk had this in his sig "Originally posted by BGardner: Tom Kay was wrong. As much as I liked him, he is not making paintball equipment anymore. He never loved to play the game. It was more of a business than a passion. He has found his passion now, and I bet he is alot happier."

anyone else wanna call BS on the Gardner bros? Tom Kaye never loved paintball? By ruining his company I've made him happier? What a total P w/ Rick. I now have a renewed hatred for these guys and will remember to kick the gardners square in the balls if I ever meet them :mad:

[Ratt]

was reading this thread and some jerk had this in his sig "Originally posted by BGardner: Tom Kay was wrong. As much as I liked him, he is not making paintball equipment anymore. He never loved to play the game. It was more of a business than a passion. He has found his passion now, and I bet he is alot happier."

anyone else wanna call BS on the Gardner bros? Tom Kaye never loved paintball? By ruining his company I've made him happier? What a total P w/ Rick. I now have a renewed hatred for these guys and will remember to kick the gardners square in the balls if I ever meet them :mad:

-I concur. :)

[Frizzle Fry]

anyone else wanna call BS on the Gardner bros?

We did, 2 years ago. I posted something and another person posted the D-Day akimbo Sydarm picture.

[Pump Scout]

That said, a new Micro CA-II would be a hit.

Winner, winner, chicken dinner! I'd love a Micro CA-II. Wish I'd been smarter back in the day and snagged one. Or two.

[Frizzle Fry]

Winner, winner, chicken dinner! I'd love a Micro CA-II. Wish I'd been smarter back in the day and snagged one. Or two.

If wishes were fishes AO would reek like low tide... Thankfully, AGD is still up and running, and the more creative aspects of Automag upgrading and improving are being carried on by people like Jay, Tuna and Rogue (and more). I'd love to see some re-vamped traditional AGD products but I'm afraid it won't happen any time soon.

Oh, and you've got a PM.

[Gadget]

Bit more info:

http://www.p8ntballer-forums.com/vb/showpost.php?p=1305847&postcount=22

[PanzerGen]

Bit more info: http://www.p8ntballer-forums.com/vb...47&postcount=22

So does that leave any mainstream companies who still make their guns in the US or Europe and not Asia without Smart Parts? As much as I hated their business practices, it was nice that they still made all their stuff in the US.

[Skeeter]

Their patents are still good, that is as long as they can afford to defend them in court. I'm very curious as to how this will pan out in the industry.


The BIG issue is that their electronic trigger mechanism WAS NEVER valid!!! They (the Gardner brothers) DO have other patents, that are enforceable, for the spool-valve systems. The E-Trigger patents were proven invalid, in a Federal Circuit Court of Wisconsin (2003, IIRC).

The reason EVERYONE with a clue should hate SP? They fundamentally changed the industry, by destroying the culture of cooperation and "good sportsmanship" between manufacturers!!! Now, every company in the industry is very "protectionist", and not at all interested in helping eachother out. Before SP's legal BS, most, if not all, of the companies in the industry would willingly share information, technology, concepts, etc... Now, that feeling of teamwork, between different manufacturers, companies, teams, stores, etc,. has been destroyed. I blame SP for destroying that wonderful component of the game.

No other entity (or combination of entities) has had such a negative impact on this industry, in the 22 years of my involvement in the sport!

EDIT: Smart Parts got their butts kicked in OREGON, not Wisconsin (my mistake)

Search on "Smart".
http://patentlaw.typepad.com/patent/patent_cases_2004/page/2/

[Frizzle Fry]

it was nice that they still made all their stuff in the US.

So they said, but I've talked to people who signed the forms to accept delivery of ION bodies from China.

One of the oldest tricks in the advertising book is to order something 95% finished and "assemble" it in the US...

Like those Amish electric (yes electric) fireplaces you see on TV? The Amish make the frame, a Mexican company makes the plywood body, and some Chinese company makes the actual fireplace assembly. Then 12 people in a warehouse in Delaware for 16 hours a day at $5.25 per hour shoot 20 furniture tacks into each one with a gun to hold all 3 parts together (maybe 5 minutes per unit to assemble) and they've just been "Made in the USA". Then they film fake Amish people for the commercial and add some fine print about the filming being a "mockup". :rolleyes:

[cockerpunk]

actually, that loan that robbo is talking about is probably for the HUGE machining facility they build about 3 years ago. they machined everything in house from my understanding, only boards and injection molding were done overseas.

unfortunately or fortunately, SP leaned what happens when you invest in a basically state of the art machining facility and you plan to pay it off with 175 dollar vibes and Sp1s that might make you 25 bucks a pop.

12 million dollars at 25 bucks a pop is a lot of vibes ...

then the while market went to ****, and now your selling half or maybe even less vibes ...

[leloup]

Then they film fake Amish people for the commercial and add some fine print about the filming being a "mockup". :rolleyes:

It is easy to tell it is a mock up...seeing that Amish don't like having pictures taken of them. it is against their religion. Even little girls dolls don't have faces. Kind of creepy.

[Skeeter]

Even little girls dolls don't have faces. Kind of creepy.

Hmmm... I thought it was genetic!

[bound for glory]

i'm not a fan of smart parts. and its great that what goes around comes around. that being said, alot of people who arn't ******** are losing there jobs. at christmas. in a country where the people in charge don't care if theres jobs or not. people who are losing there jobs because these jerkoff brothers could'nt keep there jerkoff company afloat, i won't make merry over that. i, as a father, feel sorry for the familys this will hurt.

[going_home]

The BIG issue is that their electronic trigger mechanism WAS NEVER valid!!! They (the Gardner brothers) DO have other patents, that are enforceable, for the spool-valve systems. The E-Trigger patents were proven invalid, in a Federal Circuit Court of Wisconsin (2003, IIRC).

The reason EVERYONE with a clue should hate SP? They fundamentally changed the industry, by destroying the culture of cooperation and "good sportsmanship" between manufacturers!!! Now, every company in the industry is very "protectionist", and not at all interested in helping eachother out. Before SP's legal BS, most, if not all, of the companies in the industry would willingly share information, technology, concepts, etc... Now, that feeling of teamwork, between different manufacturers, companies, teams, stores, etc,. has been destroyed. I blame SP for destroying that wonderful component of the game.

No other entity (or combination of entities) has had such a negative impact on this industry, in the 22 years of my involvement in the sport!

EDIT: Smart Parts got their butts kicked in OREGON, not Wisconsin (my mistake)

Search on "Smart".
http://patentlaw.typepad.com/patent/patent_cases_2004/page/2/


That was 2004 Smart Parts vs WDP

http://www.patentlyo.com/patent/2004/08/paintball_paten.html



Smart Parts v. WDP (D. Oregon 2004)

http://patentlaw.typepad.com/patent/images/paintball_gun.jpg


In a patent infringement suit over electropneumatic paintball guns, an inventorship controversy arose. Smart Parts contends it is the sole owner of U.S. Patent No. 6,474,326. Dr. Edward Hensel, a former investor, claims to be a co-inventor. Hensel, now acting on behalf of WDP, provided evidence that he designed various elements of the patented invention - namely the electrical timing circuit and bolt action control. In addition, Hensel created a working model in his home. The court agreed that Hensel should be at least a co-inventor and granted summary judgment to WDP on the issue of inventorship.


WDP is gone so now who owns what ?

:confused:

[Frizzle Fry]

WDP is gone so now who owns what ?

Angel Paintball Sports aka APS.

[TheePsycho]

WDP is not gone. They just changed their name to APS Angel Paintball Sports.

[Pump Scout]

Also, the WDP-v-Smart Parts follies did indeed spill into Wisconsin. Can't cite a case number or date, but it did happen here. What doesn't get aired in public too much is that it was WDP bringing a case against Smart Parts. The dirty laundry part of this is that in order to establish the case of Smart Parts markers being sold in Wisconsin, WDP sent people in to several WI stores to order markers. Once those markers were ordered (and, from conversations with the store owners, they were RELUCTANTLY ordered, after trying to steer the "customer" to a better/cheaper/non-SP product but under insistance that they wanted the whatever-it-was), then those STORES were made part of the legal mess. Each one had to come to terms legally, which meant retaining an attorney, shutting down to attend court, and losing out on thousands of dollars in legal costs because two companies were in a slugging match.

SP certainly brought lawsuits against plenty of people. WDP wasn't one of them. That game was the other way around.

[PaintballEngineer]

Tom Kay patents HPA.

Sues GI Milsim.

Game over? :ninja:


There goes our moral high ground :rolleyes:

[going_home]

There goes our moral high ground :rolleyes:

Thats why it wont happen.

Character is not a gift, its a victory.

:)

[Ninjeff]

Maybe time to re-release rental mags....perhaps a "demo kit" that comes with the equipment you need to clean a mag......a bucket to put the water in....lol.


Late to the party here, and i didnt read the rest of the thread (i will though i swear!)

But i ahve to say, being able to get a good fleet of rental mags would be the greatest thing ever. My field uses Piranna rentals and, to be frank, i hate the damned things. Out of a fleet of 150+ we can usually only manage around 110 working guns at any one time. The list of problems is long and varied, but it got so bad at the end of the season that we would wind up with one employee JUST fixing guns. All day. JUST to keep the players on the field. GroovyChicken and i had to spend TWO whole weekends just working on guns just to replenish the stock back to 100%. In the end, it only took 2 weeks before we were right back to swapping out guns for at least ONE person in every group more than a few times a day. We've ordered new guns and found them to actually be worse quality wise than the older ones. To top it off the months of October and November turned out to be our busiest months in the history of the field (after 17 years!) clocking in at over 1100 people/ month (only open saturday/sunday). Thats a REALLY big number for a field in central Illinois Since we pride ourselves on customer satisfaction it really got myself and the other employees down (and angry) having guns go down on the field and customers not egtting to play a full round until we had them swapped out. When you take a group out with two spare guns in a backpack, and come back with three broken ones it gets irritating. The owner and i have spoken at length about what to do about the issue and have yet to come up with a working solution.

All that being said, We have always batted the idea around how great it would be to be able to get a full fleet of rental classic 'Mags. So, yea, i cannot stress enough how awesome it would be to actually be able to do this. Heck, we are right here in Illinois, I'll even drive up personally and pick them up!

[CatoRockwell]

Late to the party here, and i didnt read the rest of the thread (i will though i swear!)

But i ahve to say, being able to get a good fleet of rental mags would be the greatest thing ever. My field uses Piranna rentals and, to be frank, i hate the damned things. Out of a fleet of 150+ we can usually only manage around 110 working guns at any one time. The list of problems is long and varied, but it got so bad at the end of the season that we would wind up with one employee JUST fixing guns. All day. JUST to keep the players on the field. GroovyChicken and i had to spend TWO whole weekends just working on guns just to replenish the stock back to 100%. In the end, it only took 2 weeks before we were right back to swapping out guns for at least ONE person in every group more than a few times a day. We've ordered new guns and found them to actually be worse quality wise than the older ones. To top it off the months of October and November turned out to be our busiest months in the history of the field (after 17 years!) clocking in at over 1100 people/ month (only open saturday/sunday). Thats a REALLY big number for a field in central Illinois Since we pride ourselves on customer satisfaction it really got myself and the other employees down (and angry) having guns go down on the field and customers not egtting to play a full round until we had them swapped out. When you take a group out with two spare guns in a backpack, and come back with three broken ones it gets irritating. The owner and i have spoken at length about what to do about the issue and have yet to come up with a working solution.

All that being said, We have always batted the idea around how great it would be to be able to get a full fleet of rental classic 'Mags. So, yea, i cannot stress enough how awesome it would be to actually be able to do this. Heck, we are right here in Illinois, I'll even drive up personally and pick them up!

if agd did this that would be amazing a local store that I've been working with uses those crappy pirahnas too as rentals. Same complaints when I am renting equipment for a work party we always have a few guns go down, but not my mags. This way we could convert people to mags by the droves instead of 1 or 2 loaners at a time like I have been doing :D

[Skeeter]

Also, the WDP-v-Smart Parts follies did indeed spill into Wisconsin. Can't cite a case number or date, but it did happen here. What doesn't get aired in public too much is that it was WDP bringing a case against Smart Parts.


Thank you for confirming the Wisconsin link. I didn't have any luck with google, while looking for the reference. I would like to know why WI was chosen as the state for the trial? Is WI known for strict patent enforcement standards?



The dirty laundry part of this is that in order to establish the case of Smart Parts markers being sold in Wisconsin, WDP sent people in to several WI stores to order markers. Once those markers were ordered (and, from conversations with the store owners, they were RELUCTANTLY ordered, after trying to steer the "customer" to a better/cheaper/non-SP product but under insistance that they wanted the whatever-it-was), then those STORES were made part of the legal mess. Each one had to come to terms legally, which meant retaining an attorney, shutting down to attend court, and losing out on thousands of dollars in legal costs because two companies were in a slugging match.


Yes... It WAS an ugly point in time, for this industry. It is hard to imagine having a difficult time finding a SP marker at some location in the state, just to establish "proof of sale". Ions and Shockers were ALL over the market, back in 2003 & 2004. If one store did not stock them on hand, then another one surely would have... Just drive down the road a bit and find a willing SP vendor. How many stores were involved?



SP certainly brought lawsuits against plenty of people. WDP wasn't one of them. That game was the other way around.


The important lesson for all of this legal BS, is that the SP patent was found to be unenforceable, as a whole. When this was established, it ENDED the SP "stranglehold" on the industry, and opened up the platform of e-triggers for the entire industry to utilize. It was a MAJOR blow to SP, and their continued attempts to control the industry.

It is very unfortunate that some small stores were drug into this mess as innocent bystanders; however, the industry has benefited as a whole, due to WDP's legal actions. I sincerely hope that the stores that suffered through that legal cat-fight, have survived and prospered. I do know that the entire sport is better off now, than it would be, if SP still had (invalid) control of any & all e-trigger systems.

[Ando]

If I remember correctly those rental mags were twice the price of other rental guns that fields could purchase and the fields would def have to switch over to HP unless they op to purchase expansion chambers but even with the expansion chambers, liquid would still get to the valve.

In the long run tho a mag would have saved those owners a ton of time and money. If I ever get a wild hair and the money, I def would open a field strictly using mags.

[Reiner]

If I remember correctly those rental mags were twice the price of other rental guns that fields could purchase and the fields would def have to switch over to HP unless they op to purchase expansion chambers but even with the expansion chambers, liquid would still get to the valve.

In the long run tho a mag would have saved those owners a ton of time and money. If I ever get a wild hair and the money, I def would open a field strictly using mags.I'd pay twice as much foa decent long-term rental.

[Shirow]

If I remember correctly those rental mags were twice the price of other rental guns that fields could purchase and the fields would def have to switch over to HP unless they op to purchase expansion chambers but even with the expansion chambers, liquid would still get to the valve.

In the long run tho a mag would have saved those owners a ton of time and money. If I ever get a wild hair and the money, I def would open a field strictly using mags.

Do fields mostly still use CO2 for rentals? The last couple I've played at had 68/3000 tanks.. they are so cheap now ($40-50 retail) it's hardly even worth using CO2..

[Ando]

I'd pay twice as much foa decent long-term rental.
I agree but in the beginning when AGD was selling the rental. HP wasn't abundant nor was the knowledge of the marker. I'm willing to bet that was the biggest turn offs let alone the price. I'm sure if owners knew what they know now it would be a different story.


Do fields mostly still use CO2 for rentals? The last couple I've played at had 68/3000 tanks.. they are so cheap now ($40-50 retail) it's hardly even worth using CO2..
I'm talking back in the day when AGD was selling the rental. HP wasn't even around in a good 90% of fields till early/mid 2000. Now a days it's the norm.

[TeaQue]

I sent in my SP1 for repair last week, SP recieved it yesterday, replaced the blackheart board with a new one, and shipped it back out. This thread had me pretty worried But it looks like I'll be getting it back soon ;)

[leloup]

If ADG wanted to, I think they could offer a lower cost rental mag. If they make the body out of aluminum, they could make it plain and fairly cheap (correct me if I am wrong, but I think it would be more cost effective than SS, and a hell of a lot lighter). If they could put the rental at $150 to $200, I am sure you could have a large portion of fields take them up. If I had a field, I too would love to have just mags as rentals...and phantoms for those who want to try pump. :D

[MoeMag]

YAY!
confirmed by industry person.
"Smart parts is so far behind the bank wont let them have anything made."

[Shirow]

I'm talking back in the day when AGD was selling the rental. HP wasn't even around in a good 90% of fields till early/mid 2000. Now a days it's the norm.

Oh, I thought you meant now. My mistake.

[georgeyew]

Just waiting for the day when the official announcement is finally made :clap:

[bound for glory]

real holiday good will going out to the low level people who are losing there jobs at smart parts :( but please, continue to post about there junk-o guns :rolleyes: and for all the dreamers out there, whens agd making a new marker? i forgot the date now that the beast is dead...

[going_home]

Hey guys I got it from a confirmed source today that SP will be done at the end of the month.

12-07-2009, 04:42 PM



Just waiting for the day when the official announcement is finally made :clap:


Dude this is AO, that was official.


:ninja:

[Frizzle Fry]

real holiday good will going out to the low level people who are losing there jobs at smart parts :( but please, continue to post about there junk-o guns :rolleyes: and for all the dreamers out there, whens agd making a new marker? i forgot the date now that the beast is dead...

Not for nothing, but there is such thing as personal responsibility... Do you think Smart Parts employees could have got no other job than theone at SP? You lie down with the dogs and you'll get up with the fleas. Seriously. Who's fault is this mess? The scumbags who took out 12 million in loans and then used the money to start another company. Not us.

There's no way that ANYBODY went to work for Smart Parts in the last 6-7 years without knowing their reputation for bad business practices. It's a small industry and that name has been MUD among major manufacturers for years; even with those who took the licensing option for their electros.

I think everyone here has the right to be a little bitter about the dissapearance of companies who allegedly "had the choice to license" their own designs and chose instead to close their doors. Or the retirement of certain individuals who made the industry what it was, not because of patent reasons, but because they couldn't stand to see the childishness of the whole thing... Tom Kaye isn't the only one, you know.




Seriously, you might not think there'll be a new marker from AGD but take a peek at some of the incredible automag components that've been created in the last few years by other companies. Take a look at Toms new compressor unit. That might not be much, but it's new and it's good and it's not plastic crap served up in a blisterpack at a 300% markup by some fast-talking semi educated con men with nothing but profit and self-serving interest in their minds.

[going_home]

This thread is now famous !

http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=3272877


:rolleyes:

[insixdays777]

The smartparts product dump is starting. 10% all SP products on some websites are starting to appear.

Word has it that after Christmas its going to be complete firesale. Supposedly time is running out for SP to dump what they can before the bank locks the doors.

[WalkingTarget]

WARLORD']Go here (http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?p=40793042#post40793042)

That was a year or so ago, when TK ventured over to the Nation for the great "Gardner Smackdown" as everyone called it. Tom talks about the magic box as well as other mods to the "PL" Automags.

Ahh yes!

Billy G had to go out in public to put both feet into his mouth... Doc N put him on the ropes and Good 'ole Tom Kaye delivered the KO.

[WalkingTarget]

real holiday good will going out to the low level people who are losing there jobs at smart parts :( but please, continue to post about there junk-o guns :rolleyes: and for all the dreamers out there, whens agd making a new marker? i forgot the date now that the beast is dead...


Um... unlike SP and WPD and all the other big names, AGD does not need to make a new model every year, because unlike their competitors, the AGD marker is STILL WORKING. :dance:

[CatoRockwell]

Quote:
Originally Posted by YABUCOA
"I just bought three weeks ago a shocker NXT 09. I think the marker fearly good. for the price, do some upgrades and it won´t go up to $1300.00. But you will not find a marker for the price that good. If yes correct me if I am wrong."
my response: I could and have built a waaaaay better ETac automag for that price

I just posted this in response to a defender of SP on the very thread on pbnation mentioned above gotta represent the mag everywhere I go

[warbeak2099]

Ahh yes!

Billy G had to go out in public to put both feet into his mouth... Doc N put him on the ropes and Good 'ole Tom Kaye delivered the KO.

Dude I was up till like 3am posting in that thread. That was the tits. Billy made himself look like a complete fool, TK and Doc didn't even need to help lol. At one point he started claiming that he was dyslexic so people would stop posting long, well reasoned posts about why his business practices are dead wrong. I also love when he just completely ignored it when someone pulled up his and Adam's business record with that greeting card/trinket company they were involved with that went down because of fraud on their part. He completely dodged the question about his involvement.

[WalkingTarget]

Dude I was up till like 3am posting in that thread. That was the tits. Billy made himself look like a complete fool, TK and Doc didn't even need to help lol. At one point he started claiming that he was dyslexic so people would stop posting long, well reasoned posts about why his business practices are dead wrong. I also love when he just completely ignored it when someone pulled up his and Adam's business record with that greeting card/trinket company they were involved with that went down because of fraud on their part. He completely dodged the question about his involvement.

Dude, Same here... I just sat back and watched... It was like a train wreak full of people who talk in the theater... It's horrible, yet hillariously vindicating to watch.

[Ando]

We need shirts done up :clap:

http://premium1.uploadit.org/docZox///kiss.jpg

[Shirow]

Best post IMO:


Will this make our shockers worth more or less?

[fishmishin]

Well it looks like I started the thread here and also ended the thread on PBNation. I felt the need to reply this morning after reading the post about we here on AO making AGD looking bad when we are the ones still trying to help keep it open. Apparently the mods at PBN must have thought I was getting ready to start a flame fest because after I posted they locked the thread.
Of course it was never my intention to start a flame fest or anything, especially since I hate being involved in BS like that. Furthermore I want to add that this thread was only started to let everyone know what was getting ready to happen, and thats it. Don't get me wrong, I'm not weeping about them closing, I am not a fan at all. In the same sense, even though I don't like SP by any means, I do hate to see another OLD paintball company go down. That is mainly attributed to the fact that we are running out of the older companies of paintball, and like it or not SP has been around for a long time. I would love to see Tom, Glen, and Bud get back together and try to move paintball back to working together to improve the sport for the players, instead trying just rape the pockets of the players.

[WalkingTarget]

PBN mods are up to the usual garbage. They deleted all my posts.

[Smoothice]

On to more important things.

Who's the fluesy in that TK pic? ;)

[Ratt]

On to more important things.

Who's the fluesy in that TK pic? ;)


Riiight??? She's a real hottie... :D

[BigEvil]

On to more important things.

Who's the fluesy in that TK pic? ;)


Isnt that Trina?,.. you know - DOOBIE'S WIFE and mother of his child? If I were you I would get out of your house NOW before the commandos arrive!

[Smoothice]

Isnt that Trina?,.. you know - DOOBIE'S WIFE and mother of his child? If I were you I would get out of your house NOW before the commandos arrive!

hahaha. Serious?

I need to stop surfing ao on my phone.

This is the second time I have lusted after his wife...

[BigEvil]

hahaha. Serious?

I need to stop surfing ao on my phone.

This is the second time I have lusted after his wife...


Only second time huh? You should see what I did with all of those left over Trina posters.

[BigEvil]

Only second time huh? You should see what I did with all of those left over Trina posters.


A crap... im dead now too arent I? :(

[CatoRockwell]

PBN mods are up to the usual garbage. They deleted all my posts.
Mine too, now I remember why I don't venture over
to pbn. Those mods are the biggest babies on the planet. Either that or the gardners bought pbn after the bgardner smackdown or just bribe the mods.

[Shirow]

Mine too, now I remember why I don't venture over
to pbn. Those mods are the biggest babies on the planet. Either that or the gardners bought pbn after the bgardner smackdown or just bribe the mods.

I just guessed most of the own 'totally wicked upped Ions'

[CatoRockwell]

I just guessed most of the own 'totally wicked upped Ions'
I'm tempted to do what got me banned over there years ago: send a pm to the mods telling them exactly what I think of their methods. :cuss:

[Shirow]

I'm tempted to do what got me banned over there years ago: send a pm to the mods telling them exactly what I think of their methods. :cuss:

It's pointless, all it generates is a belief that their attitudes are right - if you come from another forum, you think you're better than them.

I jump around a bunch of forums online, it's always the same thing and it's never worth arguing with a mod - the vast majority of them just think they are there to impose their will, not keep the board clean of junk.

Best thing you can do if you disagree with a mods behavior is stop posting.. if everyone followed that line of thinking then the badly managed forums would die out quickly.

Unfortunately, most people prefer to get into a fight :) :shooting:

[CatoRockwell]

Well I was in highschool all those years ago and I was itching for a fight. But after that I never bothered to rejoin. And you are right that's exactly what I'm doing this time, I'm NOT posting anymore over there. Who needs pbn anyway?

[Doobie]

A crap... im dead now too arent I? :(

Just another body to dispose of. My team of "friends" can handle it.

[Miscue]

Well that's a Shocker.

[Shirow]

Well that's a Shocker.

I think we really struck a Nerve.

[zondo]

This thread is full of negative Vibes. :mad:

[Frizzle Fry]

I think we really struck a Nerve.

My friend bought a Shocker in 2006... Kept having issues, would bring it to the field, things wouldn't work. As he "upgraded" (i.e. replaced stock parts with very similar aftermarket ones, some of which were not supposed to improve performance) some of the issues started to dissapear. Finally, he had a SINGLE Smart Parts component left on the marker, and was having bolt issues... $40 at NdZ later, the thing still shoots and hasn't had an issue since :rolleyes:

[Doobie]

Richmond Italia just confirmed on Blast Radius Woodsball Podcast's live show that SP will be shutting down U.S. manufacturing facilities but will be looking into asian manufacturing.

[Doobie]

G.I. Milsim guns will be made in asia.

[MANN]

Richmond Italia just confirmed on Blast Radius Woodsball Podcast's live show that SP will be shutting down U.S. manufacturing facilities but will be looking into asian manufacturing.

which means that SP is still in buisness?

[Doobie]

which means that SP is still in buisness?

It means they are still clinging to hope.

[zondo]

It means they are still clinging to hope.

Selling their US manufacturing to move to someplace cheaper in Asia. This sounds all too familiar...

[Shirow]

My friend bought a Shocker in 2006... Kept having issues, would bring it to the field, things wouldn't work. As he "upgraded" (i.e. replaced stock parts with very similar aftermarket ones, some of which were not supposed to improve performance) some of the issues started to dissapear. Finally, he had a SINGLE Smart Parts component left on the marker, and was having bolt issues... $40 at NdZ later, the thing still shoots and hasn't had an issue since :rolleyes:

That's what you get for buying things on Impulse.

[nmib]

I just had an Epiphany

[punkncat]

Do fields mostly still use CO2 for rentals? The last couple I've played at had 68/3000 tanks.. they are so cheap now ($40-50 retail) it's hardly even worth using CO2..


Actually we still use CO2 for our rental Tippys just because it lasts so long.

The owner has push button fill stations, and some of the steely tanks, but he is afraid to implement them for anything beyond tournaments because he is afraid someone will hurt themselves. So, we have to fill each HPA tank on field by hand off a bulk tank. Total PITA

[zondo]

Actually we still use CO2 for our rental Tippys just because it lasts so long.

The owner has push button fill stations, and some of the steely tanks, but he is afraid to implement them for anything beyond tournaments because he is afraid someone will hurt themselves. So, we have to fill each HPA tank on field by hand off a bulk tank. Total PITA

Well how long is that going to last now that the EPA declared CO2 a pollutant?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/12/07/AR2009120701645.html?hpid=topnews

[Shirow]

Actually we still use CO2 for our rental Tippys just because it lasts so long.

The owner has push button fill stations, and some of the steely tanks, but he is afraid to implement them for anything beyond tournaments because he is afraid someone will hurt themselves. So, we have to fill each HPA tank on field by hand off a bulk tank. Total PITA

Well, to his credit, I have seen plenty of dumbasses not lock down tight onto the fill nipple and press the button. They are generally people with rentals who have never used it before though..

At the field I play at, they generally show the renters how do to it and just let the people with their own gear go to town.

[SSP REAPER]

which means that SP is still in buisness?
all it means is the SP shiop will sink and all their other capital is going into GI Milsim. SP may be dead but the brothers Gardner are still around with their GI Milsim crud...

[Tunaman]

Well how long is that going to last now that the EPA declared CO2 a pollutant?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/12/07/AR2009120701645.html?hpid=topnews
So I guess we all have to stop breathing now too right? And the trees have to stop growing too right? This congress and president are a bunch of jackasses.

[SSP REAPER]

So I guess we all have to stop breathing now too right? And the trees have to stop growing too right? This congress and president are a bunch of jackasses.
we could always move to canada! j/k

[Ando]

we could always move to canada! No really!!!
Fixed. ;)

[DeuceSV]

I'm going to go watch Push.

That was the year I started playing the sport. Anyone here ever play at Texas Paintball just outside of Austin, Tx around those years? I could never get enough of that field.

I'd love to see the industry turn back toward what it was in those days!

[TeaQue]

Well I got my SP1 back today.

In total it was gone for 8days and they put in a new blackheart board at no charge. I'm just glad I got it back. This thread made me a bit nervous :)

[TeaQue]

Well that's a Shocker.


This thread is full of negative Vibes. :mad:


That's what you get for buying things on Impulse.


I just had an Epiphany

:rofl:

[MANN]

all it means is the SP shiop will sink and all their other capital is going into GI Milsim. SP may be dead but the brothers Gardner are still around with their GI Milsim crud...

That is sorta how I see it.

I would love to see SP's patents vanish, and the company go the way of the dodo.....But I just dont see it happening. Them changing names, rearranging assets IMO is nothing to dance about.

[Skeeter]

That is sorta how I see it.

I would love to see SP's patents vanish, and the company go the way of the dodo.....But I just dont see it happening. Them changing names, rearranging assets IMO is nothing to dance about.

FWIW (rumor central)... All of the intelectual property belongs to the "Brothers Grim", and not SP... A & B will still be able to collect royalties for their "real" patents around the spool valve technology for several more years... When SP declares bankrupcy, the "duo" will still retain the valuable property.

Not to worry about their survival!!! They were smart enough to copyright "pwnd" and "n00b", so they will be wealthy FOREVER!!!!!

[Daze]

Why is Richmond Italia making statements for SP? I didn't know he was an employee there. Isn't that very close to stepping on the non-compete?

[doc_Zox]

http://premium1.uploadit.org/docZox//SPChina.gif

[going_home]

http://premium1.uploadit.org/docZox//SPChina.gif

methinks thou hast too much time on thy hands


:rolleyes:

[Pump Scout]

Mine too, now I remember why I don't venture over
to pbn. Those mods are the biggest babies on the planet. Either that or the gardners bought pbn after the bgardner smackdown or just bribe the mods.

Thanks. We do what we can to keep conversations mature. For what it's worth, the Gardners have absolutely no stake in PBNation. And, if there's any SP mod bribery, they've forgotten to add several of us to the list.


I just guessed most of the own 'totally wicked upped Ions'

'Fraid not. I do have a stock Vibe that's great as a loaner gun.


I'm tempted to do what got me banned over there years ago: send a pm to the mods telling them exactly what I think of their methods. :cuss:

You're more than welcome to PM me on PBN, or here, or just say your piece. You should know that I'm not a mod in the SP section, but I did see the posts, and they were certainly inflammatory. Sorry you're of a different opinion on that, but in spite of what some folks think of PBN, it's only a cesspool of foolishness when it's allowed to go that direction. The staff does their level best to keep it away from that.

What really saddens me is that I've always personally thought the folks here are sharp, and above some of the garbage that does go on among forums, and sometimes I'm proven wrong. I know it's easy enough to take shots when an opening appears, but it's the bigger person who can be more mature than to kick others when they're down. I do apologize for taking this thread aside from its original direction, but when it comes to people slandering a project I believe in as much as PBN, and people who volunteer for one of the hardest tasks in the e-paintball world, I do feel the need to call a spade a spade.

[going_home]

Thanks. We do what we can to keep conversations mature. For what it's worth, the Gardners have absolutely no stake in PBNation. And, if there's any SP mod bribery, they've forgotten to add several of us to the list.



They're here :rolleyes:

But they are as welcome here as anyone is ;)


:D

[Pump Scout]

Indeed, sir. And if you think I'm the only one, you'd be WAAAY wrong. :D Heck, I've been a member here as long as... well, most of the other forums I joined up back in the day. I enjoy many forums, and like to see all kinds of viewpoints on various topics. One of the best reasons to be at least a little part of many communities is that sometimes things pop up in places one doesn't frequent earlier than other places. This thread is a great example of that. The news broke here first, from what I can tell. What can I say, I'm an information junkie!

[Shirow]

'Fraid not. I do have a stock Vibe


Well, there's your problem. Need to get yourself a totally wicked upped Ion.

[Ando]

They were smart enough to copyright "pwnd" and "n00b"
Plz tell me this n00b is kidding. I'm so going to pwnd him if he is :p

[TheePsycho]

You could build yourself a 35bps ion. The only nice thing about ions is you can build one completely custom without having to support SP.

[BigEvil]

I just had an Epiphany


This one time I was playing paintball.. and this hot chick showed me her magic box :D


















True story.














It was black........











(I can do this all night)



:rofl:

[CatoRockwell]

Indeed, sir. And if you think I'm the only one, you'd be WAAAY wrong. :D Heck, I've been a member here as long as... well, most of the other forums I joined up back in the day. I enjoy many forums, and like to see all kinds of viewpoints on various topics. One of the best reasons to be at least a little part of many communities is that sometimes things pop up in places one doesn't frequent earlier than other places. This thread is a great example of that. The news broke here first, from what I can tell. What can I say, I'm an information junkie!
What's wrong with saying thatthe death of smartparts leaves hope for a brighter future in paintball?

It's true :D

or to tell a fellow pber that he can build a custom automag for under 1300 that is way better than any shocker out there?

I wasn't trying to be rude he asked if anyone could build as good of a marker for under 1500

in all fairness the whole comment about smartparts burning and why Automaggers hate smartparts was a little heated but it was all with a joking tone intended.

[Frizzle Fry]

Well, this just in, one of the banks looking to collect on loans may be seizing a patent portfolio that was borrowed against for a large loan that isn't being used for the company they claimed it was... That includes certain pieces of technology that many in the paintball industry would like to see free'd up. It's very likely that some of the more lucrative patents will expire before litigation is settled, and since the current holders will not be in possesion of them it will not be possible to re-apply for a patent extension. Also it appears that they will not have enough funding to make payments, fight it in court, or fight another well funded company (like KEE...) who may try to claim them.

[TheePsycho]

^ I like this.

Really it doesn't matter if Smart Parts dies in a fire. It's really their patents that need to be cast into the fiery depths of hell, but I can settle for one or the other but preferrably both would do nicely.

http://www.mcarterbrown.com/forums/ebay-oddities/101143-lol-smart-parts-out-business.html

http://cgi.ebay.com/smart-parts-epiphany_W0QQitemZ150394189787QQcmdZViewItemQQptZL H_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item23043137db

[Pump Scout]

What's wrong with saying thatthe death of smartparts leaves hope for a brighter future in paintball?

It's true :D

Not much, really, other than where it was done. It'd be like someone coming in here and slamming AGD and the 'Mag. People get real defensive on their own turf about what they're passionate about. Some people really love their Shocker/Ion/Luxe/Impulse/whatever. Personally, while I'm not a fan of some of what SP has done in the past, I understand some of it (not nice stuff, but neither illegal nor poor overall business when it came to the legal stuff), and I see the downfall of ANY paintball related company as a bad sign for the industry in general. This could have just as quickly happened to Bob Long, DYE, Planet, or APS. Who really knows if this is the end of one company, or just the tip of the financial crunch for everyone?


in all fairness the whole comment about smartparts burning and why Automaggers hate smartparts was a little heated but it was all with a joking tone intended.

I can appreciate that, for sure. Again, with a hot-button topic though, people's senses of humor vanish so quick, you'd think they were investments with Madoff. :) I think the whole Shocker thread on PBN thing was closed to prevent the inevitible... which would have been bad for everyone involved. Putting out a campfire before it could burn down the park, so to speak.

It still bears noting that the Gardners are willing to let their Smart Parts brand, active since, what, 1989 or so?... die in order to move on with DLX and GI MilSim. I have to assume that the GI Nano internally is a Shocker, just as the Micro is certainly a Vibe. It's not like they're getting out of the game, they're shifting directions and likely playing the corporate shell game. Their patents are indeed personally owned, rather than corporately, so those will ride along to wherever they go, and they're not likely to give those up anytime soon. With the money those patents alone bring in, they'd be fools to give them up.

QUICK EDIT - just read about the bank possibly moving on the patents. If the Gardners put up their patents as collateral, then certainly it's possible the patents will become available in a bank auction at some point. I know the former owners of a company I worked for put personal property up with the bank when they'd wanted to expand. When things fell apart for them (ironically, another set of brothers), the bank not only took their business assets, but their personal property as well. Houses, cars, jewelry, everything they added to help gain a larger loan from the bank.

Once those patents are seized (if they are), the catch will be finding someone with the cash and timing to snap them up, and NOT play the game the way it's been played. Anyone know of anyone with deep, deep pockets and a philanthropic mindset as to this little sport we play?

[Shirow]

Once those patents are seized (if they are), the catch will be finding someone with the cash and timing to snap them up, and NOT play the game the way it's been played. Anyone know of anyone with deep, deep pockets and a philanthropic mindset as to this little sport we play?

I know someone who fills requirement #2, not sure about #1.

[going_home]

QUICK EDIT - just read about the bank possibly moving on the patents. If the Gardners put up their patents as collateral, then certainly it's possible the patents will become available in a bank auction at some point. I know the former owners of a company I worked for put personal property up with the bank when they'd wanted to expand. When things fell apart for them (ironically, another set of brothers), the bank not only took their business assets, but their personal property as well. Houses, cars, jewelry, everything they added to help gain a larger loan from the bank.

Once those patents are seized (if they are), the catch will be finding someone with the cash and timing to snap them up, and NOT play the game the way it's been played. Anyone know of anyone with deep, deep pockets and a philanthropic mindset as to this little sport we play?


Maybe someone interested in the sport could put together a group of affected individuals (IE ones that are paying royalties because the the Gardners electronic patent) that could as a group buy the patent and then make it open source/public domain ?
Its a nice thought...or maybe the group could setup a Paypal donation site if it looks like there will be a bank sell off of the electronic patent.

Or maybe its just a pipe dream :tard:

[TheePsycho]

I don't even want to know how much it would sell for.

[Frizzle Fry]

I don't even want to know how much it would sell for.

Considering that they have production facilities, material and patents against which they've borrowed, I'd guess that whichever bank is holding the portfolio will probably end up doing a fast 'n loose firesale to unload "electronic marker" "gasthru grip" and "hinge eyes" to quickly recoup the funds they'd be losing. Unfortunately (or maybe fortunately) banks don't tend know or care about the importance of what they're holding, and don't always hold out for as much as it's worth as long as they can make back a good part of their losses.

[going_home]

This one time I was playing paintball.. and this hot chick showed me her magic box :D
True story.
It was black........
(I can do this all night)
:rofl:

I've been trying to figure out how to fit EOS and ION into this thing but I cant and I'm about to FREAK out !



:rolleyes:

[Coralis]

I once saw this waterless toilet , it was powered by magical IONs

[Skeeter]

Plz tell me this n00b is kidding. I'm so going to pwnd him if he is :p


Touché!!!

Not much of a n00b. Been shooting Mags since 1993 & have store full of trophies to show for it...


I WAS wrong. They also "copyrighted" or have a "Trademark Assertion" for "1337" AND "5EK5".


http://www.simplemachines.org/community/index.php?P=e76290fccef984c91dc097b647ba35e6&topic=159990.msg1020610#msg1020610

Or even better:
http://www.automags.org/forums/showpost.php?p=2115417&postcount=33

[going_home]

Touché!!!

Not much of a n00b. Been shooting Mags since 1993 & have store full of trophies to show for it...


I WAS wrong. They also "copyrighted" or have a "Trademark Assertion" for "1337" AND "5EK5".


http://www.simplemachines.org/community/index.php?P=e76290fccef984c91dc097b647ba35e6&topic=159990.msg1020610#msg1020610

Or even better:
http://www.automags.org/forums/showpost.php?p=2115417&postcount=33


Ok skeeter, you being a shop owner must have something you can add to the subject of this thread,
something from inside the biz so to speak.
Care to share ?


:D

[Skeeter]

Ok skeeter, you being a shop owner must have something you can add to the subject of this thread,
something from inside the biz so to speak.
Care to share ?


:D

:ninja:

Yes... Several posts withing the first 6 pages of this thread.

Don't want to say TOOOOOOO much, but this crowd has been very accurate, and coorelates to the "inside" information that I have.

The sad thing here, is that another PB company is "probably" going under. Not good for the industry; however, each PB company must survive on it's own merrits. This is a good example of Karma, and not many people seem to be truely upset about this development.

[Ninjeff]

:ninja:

Yes... Several posts withing the first 6 pages of this thread.

Don't want to say TOOOOOOO much, but this crowd has been very accurate, and coorelates to the "inside" information that I have.

The sad thing here, is that another PB company is "probably" going under. Not good for the industry; however, each PB company must survive on it's own merrits. This is a good example of Karma, and not many people seem to be truely upset about this development.


"Another" as in-addition-to SP?

[Engus]

"Another" as in-addition-to SP?
The way I read it, he's just refering to SP

[Ando]

Skeeter...

Jumbo jet just flew by :p

That was a complete joke ;)

That's pretty :tard: that they did that...Extremely :tard:

They should have copyrighted the word "The" while they were at it.

[Frizzle Fry]

They should have copyrighted the word "The" while they were at it.

They did. Now you owe them $1,500.

[Ninjeff]

The way I read it, he's just refering to SP


Ah. Right right. I must have just read it wrong the first time.

[going_home]

Posted here:

http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=3275924



So.. Here is the MP3 download:

http://media.libsyn.com/media/brwp/BRWP132.mp3

At: 17:00 they talk about what is happening with Smart Parts

In short - Shutting down manufacturing in the US and moving over seas and right now everything in the US is completely shut down.

At: 20:30 Italia talks about the physics, and says that the 1.25 gram 50 cal ball vs the 3.2 gram .68 caliber, is basically identical in a controlled environment and that you "can't tell the difference".

Reason is his physics!!! If you shrink the weight down by 2/3's, well, then of course, you need to make the ball 2/3's more BRITTLE!!! to compensate for it.


at: 25:40 - says they are 100% there and ready to roll for rec ball play.

But of course they haven't released it yet...

I'm still listening, but this stuff is rich.

32:40 - Talks about Lasoya and how he said 50 cal was going to take over the industry. Italia jumps around the question, but basically says YES, that 50 caliber will take over the industry and replace .68 because there is NO downside to .50 caliber as he says.

34:40 - can't give us an exact price on the paint yet. Still....

37:00 - ASTM Standards - and changing them.

40:30 - ASTM faster than 300 fps? Italia says: No
He says that 50 caliber has a misconception because it doesn't travel as far... It does travel as far so says Italia.

43:30 - Refers to Tippmann saying NO to .50 caliber, Italia says he's not heard of it. Italia says: Tippmann owners are not paintball players and Howard in particular doesn't know what he's talking about.
I guess Tippmann (according to Italia) just haven't done their own testing to find out what Italia already knows.

53:00 - He hasn't met anyone that has picked up a .50 caliber and hasn't liked it. He refers to world cup... Only one guy didn't like the .50 caliber and he must have worked for Tippmann... Again, there must be a Tippmann conspiracy. LOL.

1:07:50 - 50 caliber is currently not allowed at the PSP level until the netting gets changed as the .50 caliber does not meet certain standards on netting that is fine for 68, but doesn't work well for 50

---

Well, that's it for now. Have a listen, and you arm chair physics guys just sitting at your computer, go back to school, because you have no idea what you're talking about according to Richmond.


:rolleyes:

[Shirow]

The only people excited about 50 cal are the same people who just GOTTA GOTTA GOTTA trade their 2009 guns for 2010.. just gives an actual reason to do it, I guess.

[Rhino1XL]

Does anyone else think Richmond stinks as much as, or maybe even more than the Gardners?

Reminds me of a con artist. Slick, fast talking and some money. But really, just a flash in the pan.

[Frizzle Fry]

Does anyone else think Richmond stinks as much as, or maybe even more than the Gardners?

Reminds me of a con artist. Slick, fast talking and some money. But really, just a flash in the pan.
That WAS his reputation before he dissapeared from "the scene" for a few years.


The Dragun fiasco? The money he and his brother owe people? The Procaps fall-out? His claim to have invented the Matrix?



I'm sure everyone has noticed that GI MilSim has done damage control and removed the Gardners bio from their site... I posted some quotes from it here a month ago and had the thread locked (for fear of trolling and flaming, I'm sure), but clearly they too think some of their absurd statements were just ASKING for trouble. They've also edited some of the more incindiary comments out of Mr. Italias profile...

[ZapTheMad]

I only "disliked" the Gardners before but now I'm pushed over into the "seething hatred" group. The brutal Capitalism was one thing but this is just flat out UNAMERICAN!

First they kill the AMERICAN competition. Then they kill their own AMERICAN company with all the bad rep. Then they destroy all AMERICAN interests because they can't harvest the weeds they planted. Now they run off like little *****es. All while claiming to be sooooo AMERICAN.

I'm glad for all the anti SP propaganda. I'm glad that for every SP supporter there was 10 haters to bash their skulls in. I'm glad everyone's pocketbooks did the talking by avoiding their products. (like a new Chinese price tag is going to make any difference...)

Good bye, good riddance, and get the **** out of my country you back stabbing piece of ****s. Here's a boot in your *** to help you out the door. Enjoy your new Communist friends!

AUTOMAG 4 LIFE!

Are there any other "MADE IN AMERICA" paintball gun companies left? (besides the few pumps)

[WenULiVeUdiE]

I'm glad that for every SP supporter there was 10 haters to bash their skulls in.

Are there any other "MADE IN AMERICA" paintball gun companies left? (besides the few pumps)

Actually, it's really the other way around. 10 supporters or "neutrals" for every hater. Unless the players are active forum members on a few paintball websites, they probably do not know much about the fiasco and won't care.

Bob Long products are still manufactured in the United States. Dye performs a lot of manufacturing in San Diego, although not all of it. Palmers does a lot of work in the US, too (IIRC the body blanks are made overseas. Could be wrong, it's been a while).

[robo1]

I just called SP, and while it was a sales rep, they said parts and markers were still going. Granted it may have been bs, but thats as close to an actual sp rep as I could get. Maybe we happy bananaed a bit prematurely? :confused:

[Frizzle Fry]

I just called SP, and while it was a sales rep, they said parts and markers were still going. Granted it may have been bs, but thats as close to an actual sp rep as I could get. Maybe we happy bananaed a bit prematurely? :confused:

Well, it looks like they've told actual clients/dealers otherwise. At least 3-4 have come forward in this thread.

[robo1]

Well, it looks like they've told actual clients/dealers otherwise. At least 3-4 have come forward in this thread.
Like I said, probably bs. Personally I would love to see them lose the patents, they shouldnt have filed them in the first place. I just hate to see those poor SP girls out of work. Lol

[MAGslinger]

I just hate to see those poor SP girls out of work. Lol

Maybe we'll see some of them cross over to the dark side of Automags

[Frizzle Fry]

I just hate to see those poor SP girls out of work. Lol

I hate to see those poor SP boys who masquerade as LUXE girls out of work... :rolleyes:

[maniacmechanic]

I just called SP, and while it was a sales rep, they said parts and markers were still going. Granted it may have been bs, but thats as close to an actual sp rep as I could get. Maybe we happy bananaed a bit prematurely? :confused:

I spoke with a local S Fl dealer ( he built private label impulses for them , still has about 10 of them on the wall ) he told me , they told him they were not taking orders for markers at this point & all markers were on back order , "he said " what bit them was the new plant & new CNC machines , the bank that had financed them was sold to another bank & the new bank want them to put up personal property as collateral on the note ; they refused & told the bank to come get the machines , but of course the bank doesn't want any CNC machines
( all 3rd hand info )

[insixdays777]

The axe is falling....

Their online store no longer accepts orders.

http://www.smartparts.com/Store/ProductMarker.aspx?id=sp1

[georgeyew]

The axe is falling....

Their online store no longer accepts orders.

http://www.smartparts.com/Store/ProductMarker.aspx?id=sp1

It was like that as of 2 weeks ago.

[warbeak2099]

I hate to see those poor SP boys who masquerade as LUXE girls out of work... :rolleyes:

Lol that was actually a girl. Just not the girl she said she was.

[Drix]

Hmm, so if SP does close its doors (and I'm not convinced they will) does that mean we gotta carry over the love (Hate) to GI Milsim and Luxe?

[CatoRockwell]

Hmm, so if SP does close its doors (and I'm not convinced they will) does that mean we gotta carry over the love (Hate) to GI Milsim and Luxe?
Yes most definitely yes In fact I already did before I heard the news

[Pump Scout]

In what may be related, or may just be the paintball version of NASCAR's "Silly Season", it seems many of the Philly American players are making the "hard decision" to move to other teams. I've been watching something of an exodus from the team over the last month or so. I see Federov is going back to the Russians now. Could be another sign. Or, could be nothing. But I don't believe in coincidences.

[secretweaponevan]

Hmm, so if SP does close its doors (and I'm not convinced they will) does that mean we gotta carry over the love (Hate) to GI Milsim and Luxe?

Just start calling it Gardner/Italia Milsim. That way, everyone will know to automatically hate it too.

Make it a practice to do it daily. It's fun to see bad people lose money. :headbang:

[going_home]

Is that the best this forum can do ...... hate ? That's just rediculious. Hate is not needed here. If you don't like their business practices, don't patronize their business. Very simple. Hate not needed. ;)

[Frizzle Fry]

If you don't like their business practices, don't patronize their business. Very simple.

Not so simple if you take into account the fact that buying any electronic marker from any business is "patronizing their business".

[going_home]

Not so simple if you take into account the fact that buying any electronic marker from any business is "patronizing their business".
Still no need to hate. Save some money and buy used, then you've bipassed paying for patents. ;)

[DFSniper]

Hmm, so if SP does close its doors (and I'm not convinced they will) does that mean we gotta carry over the love (Hate) to GI Milsim and Luxe?
everyone is already bashing italia for his .50cal lies, might as well throw the brothers grim in the mix too!

as for dlx, thats up to you. some support em, some dont just because theyre the spawn of SP

[Frizzle Fry]

everyone is already bashing italia for his .50cal lies

I just found a new lie and shared over on VPBRN (Vaguely Paintball Related Nation).




http://paintblog.wordpress.com/2009/10/19/an-on-the-spot-interview-with-richmond-italia/

At about 1:58 he says:
"We've got the technology today to make a smaller paintball, we didn't have that 5 years ago, but today the machines can make a smaller paintball and there's absolutely no downside to it."


Here are some toys that most won't remember.

.43cal - 2003 Milsig/RAP4, 2008 Kingman Chaser/Eraser

.50cal - 1987 Crossmann 3357, 1998 paintball blowgun

.55cal - 2005 Pirhana Maxx55, 2006 PCS US-55

.62cal - 1987 Tippmann SMG60, 1987 AGA62


ALL of the above mentioned markers failed for one reason or another (mostly performance and availability), except the .43cal who's main appeal is that they're small enough to fit in magazine fed markers (which all of them are) without looking bulky or having extremely low capacity. That's just a handful of odd-caliber markers that've been produced en-masse over the years, dating back to the earliest days of the game.

[[NA]WARLORD]

That WAS his reputation before he dissapeared from "the scene" for a few years.


The Dragun fiasco? The money he and his brother owe people?

The Dragun guys were the Spurlocks, George and I forget his brothers name.

[dre1919]

Well, I for one would like to see solid evidence before sounding the death toll on Smart Parts. However, I do feel it's karma for allowing their greed to try and destroy the paintball industry. On one hand, I'm happy they developed and flooded the market with cheap feature rich markers because it drove the new (and used) prices into the ground. There was never a need for a marker to cost $1,500 and so I was happy to see that fall by the wayside. However, if you have a marker you need or want to sell, Smart Parts played a large role in making sure you wouldn't get crap for it. (Why should I pay $700 for your used Angel when I can buy an Ion for $200?!) Ultimately, it was just very poor ethics and a decision to grab as much cash as possible without any concern for the consequences of the sport or it's industry that drove SP to this point. I understand, as a company, you want top make as much money as possible. However, you have to pay attention to the market and be aware of the ramifications of what you introduce into that environment. If you kill off your competition, and then the sport takes a hit from an unstable economy, coupled with negative backlash from not being a team player you get this type of thing. You reap what you sow.

[badpennny]

Well, it looks like they've told actual clients/dealers otherwise. At least 3-4 have come forward in this thread.


I called them last week and inquired about the possibility of getting a RMA for my brother's Ion/Blackheart board. I talked to a tech and asked if I should be worried about getting the items back prior to the end of the month; he said while they are short-staffed, turn around should take a week and regardless of what happens with the financial situation, the RMA process should not be effected. They still haven't gotten back to us with RMA approval, so I'm not sure what to think anymore. I just convinced my brother to get a mag, but he'd like to offload his sp guns in working order.

[dre1919]

Well, any paintball manufacturer going out of business is not good for the sport. But, I suppose if one has to take it on the chin, might as well be SP.

[Drix]

Maybe we can convince AGD to make a limited edition F Smartparts UL body and rail to commemorate the occasion :rofl:

[Reiner]

However, if you have a marker you need or want to sell, Smart Parts played a large role in making sure you wouldn't get crap for it. (Why should I pay $700 for your used Angel when I can buy an Ion for $200?!)

Ultimately, it was just very poor ethics and a decision to grab as much cash as possible without any concern for the consequences of the sport or it's industry that drove SP to this point.

Almost contradicts itself, doesn't it? Bringing out the Ion dropped the mark-up for manufacturers tremendously. So were they really grabbing as much cash as possible? I think Smart Parts biggest problem (other than the hatred held by many players) was that they seemed to think bringing out the Ion was going to put a paintball marker in every household, that paintball would keep growing and growing because it was now "affordable". That backfired on them. Making cheap electros avaialble for anyone that wanted them, changed the game at local fields, and in the end not only halted paintball's growth, but helped reverse it.

[leloup]

I think it helped bring back more pump play.

Now you know Spart Parts is dying is a momentus occasion if...
My wife is an elementary school teacher, and she overheard to mothers talking about amartparts going out of business. If random elementary school moms are talking about...it is big news!

[Skeeter]

... Personally I would love to see them lose the patents, they shouldnt have filed them in the first place.

Rumor again: The patents MAY be held by the bank now... This contradicts previous statements that the "brothers Grimm" held the IP, and not Smart Parts.

Also, as some people have stated, SP claims that a "bank ownership" change has led to the difficulties. Rumor again: What is the status of PNC Bank? Have they been bought out, in the past few months???

4 more years, and some of the patents will expire (IIRC).

[dre1919]

Almost contradicts itself, doesn't it? Bringing out the Ion dropped the mark-up for manufacturers tremendously. So were they really grabbing as much cash as possible? I think Smart Parts biggest problem (other than the hatred held by many players) was that they seemed to think bringing out the Ion was going to put a paintball marker in every household, that paintball would keep growing and growing because it was now "affordable". That backfired on them. Making cheap electros avaialble for anyone that wanted them, changed the game at local fields, and in the end not only halted paintball's growth, but helped reverse it.

Well, one can look at it two ways. The first is that maybe they thought by putting out cheap electros with lots of features would "put a paintball gun in every household". Or, maybe they thought "If we cut the throats of all our competitors by offering a cheap electro with lots of features, they'll go out of business and we'll own the market share." Based upon how they handled the patent issue I'm inclined to believe the latter is more likely. I could easily see them saying "Let's go ahead and kill off all the other manufacturers so we monopolize the electro market."

Like I said, it was a double edged sword. The fact that new markers had to drop in price to compete for sales meant not only were new markers cheaper than ever before, but used markers were absurdly cheap by comparison to what they used to be. It's not a coincidence. It's been great if you're in the market for a new marker...it's sucked if you're trying to resell one.

[Pump Scout]

Rumor again: The patents MAY be held by the bank now... This contradits previous statements that the "brothers Grimm" held the IP, and not Smart Parts.


Not really. What it contradicts is the idea that the Gardners told the bank they wouldn't put personal property up as collateral on their loan. Frankly, the intellectual property wrapped up in a patent was likely their most valuable asset up to the purchase of the CNC mill... and maybe after that purchase.

[Reiner]

Well, one can look at it two ways. The first is that maybe they thought by putting out cheap electros with lots of features would "put a paintball gun in every household". Or, maybe they thought "If we cut the throats of all our competitors by offering a cheap electro with lots of features, they'll go out of business and we'll own the market share." Based upon how they handled the patent issue I'm inclined to believe the latter is more likely. I could easily see them saying "Let's go ahead and kill off all the other manufacturers so we monopolize the electro market."Yep, that thought was probably in their mind as well. And it worked for a while. Unfortuntately, if you are going to play the low mark up, high volume sales game, the high volume has to continue, otherwise it ends up being a low mark up mediocre or even low volume sales game. That doesn't work well. I don't think that Smart Parts, or anyone else really, had any idea what putting high volume shooting semis in everyones hands would do. With the added firepower, paintball prices were consumed at a much higher rate and manufacturers and retailers were able to lower prices due to higher volumes sold. Fast, cheap electors for everyone, combined with cheap paint, spelled disaster for the growth of the game. Of course, very few people predicted that. Most thought decent, cheaper equipment and cheaper paintballs would attract more players, rather than scare them away.

[Skeeter]

Actually, it's really the other way around. 10 supporters or "neutrals" for every hater. Unless the players are active forum members on a few paintball websites, they probably do not know much about the fiasco and won't care.

Yes, you are 100% correct for the average consumer. The variable, is that the folks who have been in the industry (long time store/field owners) will know better. We make the decisions as to what stock to hold in inventory. If we don't offer it (Ion, Vibe, Shocker, etc.), then the customer does not learn about it, and has a significantly reduced chance of purchasing one.

[leloup]

What is the status of PNC Bank? Have they been bought out, in the past few months???
(IIRC).

The bank may be fine. What a lot of banks do, however, is sell off their loans. They do this in blocks, so if they transfered off a set of million dollar loans, the brothers grim's loan might have been included. At a different bank, they might have wanted that collateral.

[Swampy]

Wow I got to say its been a while since the last post. I've been out for awhile but its nice to see Tom, Tuna, Moe, Skeeter, and those old names I forgot to mention still here. You are the true Maggers. Luke and Rogue you still here?

Know a thing or two about business. I sure some of you guys can back me up but Smarts Parts unfortantly to myself expanded way to fast and to strong but in the end .... well you know the story. Being a niche market within a niche market leads to failure. They put to many eggs into one basket you'd say. But welcome to the American Economy, you fail your competiters grow stronger. I know it way to well, not with the paintball industry but with the green industry.

Been itching to get back in with a AGD, enough to offer up a kidney maybe a beer soaked liver. The 03 Prostock Cocker has treated me well but its no straight up Mag.

[SSP REAPER]

Hey guys... I'm famous and so isn't this thread LOL
http://www.propaintball.com/2009/12/smart-parts-closed-out-of-business/

[Frizzle Fry]

Hey guys... I'm famous and so isn't this thread LOL
http://www.propaintball.com/2009/12/smart-parts-closed-out-of-business/

I wonder if I'm the 3rd party source? I got that from a "friend", and was the first to post it here and on PbN.

[SSP REAPER]

I wonder if I'm the 3rd party source? I got that from a "friend", and was the first to post it here and on PbN.
maybe we are both famous Andrew? :D
:cheers:

[Frizzle Fry]

maybe we are both famous Andrew? :D
:cheers:

Oh boy!

Any games between now and the big game at OSG? These two famous guys should hit the field soon.

[going_home]

Oh boy!

Any games between now and the big game at OSG? These two famous guys should hit the field soon.

He's almost at a thousand posts and you are lagging behind.

:rolleyes:

[Frizzle Fry]

He's almost at a thousand posts and you are lagging behind.

:rolleyes:

It's not the numbers, it's the content... I'd say I'm running at about 5% BST offers, 15% "props" for cools projects, 25% news & speculation, 25% technical advice & help, and 30% crude jokes & sarcasm. Them's some well balanced posting habits if I do say so myself. :D


And back to the subject... Anyone have any more details about Richmond Italias SmartParts buy-in?

[SSP REAPER]

Oh boy!

Any games between now and the big game at OSG? These two famous guys should hit the field soon.
Just the Battle of the Bulge Sceanrio on Feb. 13th! Let me know if you are definately going and we'll hook up for Breakfast. Twilight and Redic are traveling up and staying at my place for the game :)

[Frizzle Fry]

Just the Battle of the Bulge Sceanrio on Feb. 13th! Let me know if you are definately going and we'll hook up for Breakfast. Twilight and Redic are traveling up and staying at my place for the game :)

Sounds good to me... No idea what I'll be shooting for a cold-weather marker though :rolleyes:


Anyone else see this "rumor" at the bottom of that ProPB page?
http://www.propaintball.com/2009/07/paintball-rumor-richmond-buys-into-smart-parts/

IMO Richie Italia is about 22 years late when it comes to "inventing" the .50cal paintball.