Mini Compressor Update :) [Archive] - Automags.Org Online Forums

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AGD

12-09-2009, 12:31 AM

I am happy to report the prototype is working VERY well and has filled a 68/4500 in about 20 hours. This is with a 16 RPM motor! (am I good or what?)

This was using an 85 psi shop compressor feed which is really what makes the difference. The shop compressor hardly runs at all. For the people that didn't catch this in the other thread, a 68/4500 holds about 11 cubic feet of air when full. Your typical shop compressor puts out 90 psi at 5-10 cubic feet PER MINUTE. This means it should only have to kick on 2-3 times during the entire fill.

The motor takes about 1 amp so the cost to fill a tank will be about 25 cents in electricity plus a few minutes on the shop compressor.

The pump generates ZERO heat at this rpm. This is contrary to predictions made by "knowledgeable" people on the pellet gun forums. This also means what the gauge says is in your tank is actually IN YOUR TANK. No pressure loss from cooling after the fact.

I am not getting any water in the system but I live in a dry climate. I am going to suggest that you put a water trap on your shop compressor. Adding a water trap will add expense to the product (I might offer it as an option).

Everyone was speculating on filling a scuba tank. Typical scuba's are 80 cubic feet at 3000 psi. Given you can fill 11 cubic feet in a day, you should be able to fill a scuba tank in a week or maybe a bit less. This is an ESTIMATE so don't hold me to it.

The fill rate is linear. Leaving something in your tank will help proportionately cut down on the fill time. Likewise topping off a scuba that's gotten half way down is a real possibility.

Maintenance, yep your going to need to rebuild the thing once and a while. The o-rings are under a lot of stress but the good news is that you only need to replace 6 that take the most abuse. I have not had to replace any of the urethane o-rings yet and its been running for weeks. I have been lubricating it regularly, something I know a lot of you don't do until it breaks. I am not going to the expense of putting gauges on every stage. You will need to monitor your fill rate and if it takes too long you should just replace the 6 o-rings.

I am making decisions on things like the quality of the pump shafts. As an example, you can get plain steel, chrome plated steel and hardened - chrome plated steel. The choice of shaft determines the robustness and time between rebuilds. If you tell me your going to use it once a month when you tinker with your marker, then you will be out of paintball before you have to mess with the compressor. If the majority of people tell me they are planning on filling their scuba tanks every week, the price is going to go up.

I am trying very hard to make this affordable for all players. Now I need your feedback on how often you expect to use it so I can design it properly.

Thanks!

AGD

Answers to additional questions in this thread:

Its currently running at 16 rpm because I did all the testing and baselines at that speed. I have 96 rpm motors to try next but have not gotten to it yet. The design is NOT finalized and its unlikely that the 16 rpm motor is going to be in the production model.

Without the shop compressor feed it would take several days to fill the tank (but would do it eventually).

Will higher input pressures from the shop compressor make it fill faster? In theory yes but in reality no. The motor is sized to the pressures in the first stage particularly. If you overpressure the input it will likely freeze up the motor and burn it out if your not there to catch it. I am going with 85 psi because almost every shop compressor puts that out.

This compressor will not cost less than 300 dollars and I am trying hard to keep it under 500. The motor is a huge expense and unless I can get them in China cheaper, its MORE than 200 bucks just for that. The motor is a big factor in the noise and reliability.

The chassis everything mounts too has to be heavy steel so it doesn't move. The prototype is mounted on 1/2" thick aluminum plate 2 feet long by 1 foot wide and the motor FLEXES the plate every go around.

The price difference between a best-of design and a minimum design is hundreds of dollars not 10's of dollars. A best-of design would have ball bearings not bushings, quiet, high quality, last forever motor made in America, brass instead of aluminum piston housings, hardened and plated shafts etc. Having just said all that, I don't think THAT design would be less than 500. There is a reason no one has done this before.

From what I am seeing here it looks like the compressor will run one week a month for the average customer. You have to realize how many hours this is. 7 days X 24hrs X 12 months = 2,016 hours of run time per year. To put it in perspective, a full time job = 2,000 hours a year. Imagine hooking your marker up to a machine and have it shoot paintballs all day every weekday for a year. How long would you expect it to last?? This is why there is such a quality consideration here. If it wore out in 250 hours you would be complaining because that was only a couple dozen fills.

I am listening to you and working hard on it.

UPDATE 12-10-09

I am now working with the 95 RPM motor and its filling a LOT faster. Estimates at this point are 6-8 hours for the standard 68/4500. It may be possible to downsize the motor to one less costly and go back to the 24 hour fill. I also have to try boosting the input pressure to 100+ psi. Don't give up hope on the $300 price tag!

jolt00

12-09-2009, 12:40 AM

:cheers:

i would probably be using it about twice a month maybe less.
price would be the big issue for me and i'm sure most everyone els. maybe a mid ground on price and qualty like most things lol.

did you try it without the compressor yet? how long did that take?

Ratt

12-09-2009, 12:52 AM

No scuba tanks here - three 68/4500 tanks. I expect that I would be using the pump 3-4 times a month, depending on what projects I have going on.
As far as the price goes, I am very determined to own one of these. But, the more expensive it is, the longer I will have to wait to actually purchase it.

DevilMan

12-09-2009, 01:13 AM

I would hope to use mine a few times a month. Not to split hairs, but can ya give us an example of what the cost difference would be for the different metals? Say Regular $5, Medium $10, High Grade $20 or would it be more extreme of Reg $50, Medium $150, High Grade $400?

I don't know if you know that number just yet, but I'm sure you could find out and give a close guess.

I usually shoot the best ratio. If it's 4 times more and only 2 times better I go with the the 2 times more and 2 times better.

Thanx TK!!!

DM

paintball72

12-09-2009, 01:14 AM

I personally would like to use it to fill my scuba and to top off my 68/45. I play every two weeks or so, so I would say I would run it around 16ish days out of every month. I am willing to go pretty high up on price but wouldn't mind spending less :p . I really can't wait until this becomes available, go Tom :headbang:

xero28

12-09-2009, 01:18 AM

I would say I might use it to fill a 4500 5-6 times a month. I would probably use it to top off my tanks though after 3k goes into them from a scuba tank.

Thank you again Tom for keeping a foot in the paintball pool. It's great to have a real thinker like you around to help all of us who really love this sport. :cheers:

ElPanda

12-09-2009, 01:41 AM

I plan on using it to tinker

toms the man

wetwrks

12-09-2009, 02:01 AM

I would be looking at about 6 -10 times a month.

Jaron

12-09-2009, 02:09 AM

Ok, this sounds too cool. I'll look around, but can anyone point me to the original thread of this?

DevilMan

12-09-2009, 02:41 AM

Just do a search for all threads started by "AGD"

Click on AGD as his name, click on View Profile, click on "All Threads Started by AGD"

Give a man a fish, he eats for a day, teach a man to fish... and he eats for as long as the fish are bitin.

DM

Jaron

12-09-2009, 02:47 AM

Yeah, I found them and have been reviewing them for the last twenty minutes. I can definitely say I'm interested in this, and I bet I can get my team on board too We'd likely use it to top off a few SCBA tanks maybe once a month.

Nick28

12-09-2009, 03:22 AM

I would need use for this about 3-4 times a month but I have a feeling a couple guys on my team would alway be dropping off tanks to get topped off. Best bet looks like offering two levels. A single user and a team/heavy user option.

CatoRockwell

12-09-2009, 04:17 AM

Cost? I'm going to buy a compressor just so I can get this from you AGD! The stronger the better. I would rather spend more now and have it last a lot longer than deal with repairs. That's why I got into mags in the first place :p

mpsd

12-09-2009, 05:57 AM

If I could fill a 68 tank in my house, I'd probably do it between once or twice a month. Maybe I would also top my scuba tank every three months or so and I don't really think I'll do it more often.

As for the finish, I don't really care for a shiny chrome unit. Plain steel would be just fine.

You didn't say anything about the size of the final product. As I live in Brazil, I'd like to be able to carry it with me when I come back fron a trip to US. Will that be possible? Will it be larger than, say, a box of paintballs?

Thanks and keep up with the good work, Tom!

rawbutter

12-09-2009, 06:14 AM

I would use it on a scuba tank and use it about once a month... more in the spring/fall and less in the summer/winter.

MANN

12-09-2009, 06:31 AM

I would use this on scuba tanks, and would rather a better quality one.

p8ntbal4me

12-09-2009, 06:41 AM

Like Devil Man said:

You should offer the units in tier pricing.

There should be replacement parts/upgrades that can be added on later on for the end user (not by the manufacturer,.... unless you want to do that) such as the o-rings you spoke of as well as the piston rods.

I guess what Im saying is that this item should be no different than a paintball gun: Make it so it works right out of the box. However, if you want to upgrade it you can.

~ P8nt

Looper

12-09-2009, 07:32 AM

I have 4 HPA tanks that I would fill a couple times a month and two 92cf SCUBA's that I would like to top off when they need it.

As MANN stated I would rather buy the better quality one.

*** Not sure if this would have any value but could a full SCUBA be regulated down and used as the primary stage. I use this on my booster to get the SCUBA down to 400PSI http://www.palmer-pursuit.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=8_9_28&products_id=174

fishmishin

12-09-2009, 07:37 AM

I don't know that I would ever turn mine off, lol. Between my 2 68/45, a scuba, and my 3 kids tanks it would stay pretty busy. With that said I would want a the heavy duty model. Way to go Tom by the way, you have moved on a long with this fairly quickly since the conception of the idea. Glad to see the gears still turning !! :clap:

BigEvil

12-09-2009, 07:46 AM

I would probably use this very often as I am constantly tinkering with or working on markers.

kwood

12-09-2009, 08:00 AM

I will probably use it on those tinker occasions as well as the occasional outlaw ball

Ruler_Mark

12-09-2009, 08:02 AM

better quality please

Abizdafuzz

12-09-2009, 08:16 AM

I know I may only plan on running this while tinkering, but once I get it and use it more I would be likely to fill my tanks more often to go play as well. I vote for higher quality steel.

Stayhuge

12-09-2009, 08:17 AM

I will be filling 4-5 tanks once a month, probably. :cheers:

TeaQue

12-09-2009, 08:53 AM

At least a few fills a month for me :)

ezcreation

12-09-2009, 09:13 AM

I would use it for my team so we would fill scuba tanks several times a month and regular HPAs on frequent basis.

This is an awesome news Tom!

cougar20th

12-09-2009, 09:20 AM

My question & im sorry if it has already been asked.

My shop compressor is gasoline powered. Electric ist a option for now. I can run it up to full. But wouldnt want to leave it running. Would it create a problem for the mini compressor if the shop compressor runs out of air.

El Camino

12-09-2009, 09:21 AM

I would use it 2-3 times a month, actually, if I had that little compressor, I would probably fill more often, say maybe 3-4 times. I would rather buy the better quality one.
Thanks Tom for all your work!!

Shirow

12-09-2009, 09:43 AM

I'd be on the low end. Probably use it once, twice a month. I generally fill after I leave the field and I'd mainly only use it for when I was messing with my gun.

Hook

12-09-2009, 10:04 AM

Awesom project! I'd also use it a few times a month.

Dees_Troy

12-09-2009, 10:16 AM

Once or twice a month is all that I would use one. If the price difference between lowest and highest quality is $20, then I'd probably pay the extra. If it is a $100 difference, then I'd probably rather just buy more O-rings.

bojangles1983

12-09-2009, 10:26 AM

This is exactly what I would need, since I dont play too often and usually know a few days in advance when I am going to play. If its fairly affordable I am in!

Daze

12-09-2009, 10:36 AM

I will use this to top off tanks about 4 times a month, maybe 2 flat fills a month on top of that.

Great to see something like this coming along.

Flatliner333

12-09-2009, 10:45 AM

3 - 68/4500 tanks 2 or 3 times a month no scuba tanks here. Man I hope this is available for March 2010 for my big 4 0 B Day. Tom Youdaman

DevilMan

12-09-2009, 11:05 AM

Guys, I didn't mean a finished product in tier pricing, I meant to shoot us the numbers as to what the difference would be overall. Again, if it's a $20 difference between Low and High grade shaft material, then I'd go with the High. If it's a $200 difference, I'd have to say I'd go with the low.

I was asking TK if he could shoot us some guesstimated numbers on what the spread would be. $5, $15, $30 or $25, $75, $150 type of thing. This is to reflect the cost difference in the shaft, NOT the final product. Now it would be passed down into final product cost, but we aren't to that point just yet... Though the way TK handles things we may be there by the weekend!!! :D

MPSD!!!! He's not talking about the finish on the outside of the compressor, he's talking about using a different material for the internals. Using either soft, mild, regular, hardened, chromed, hardened-chromed-shot-peened-precision-diamond-cut-built-like-an-Automag steel. :D You raise the quality, you raise the price.

DM

Smoothice

12-09-2009, 11:11 AM

Hey Tom are you looking for any paintball related trades? I got some mag parts... ;)

I plan to use this max 1-2 times a month.

But I also plan to pass this down to my kids along with all my mags.

So I say build it to last.

om3n

12-09-2009, 11:17 AM

This is amazing. I could see myself using it every couple of weeks, my bro and I like to tinker on our guns quite a bit, and running out of air has always been a problem.

1stTarget

12-09-2009, 11:27 AM

I have 5 tanks including a 113ci, 4500. And our school team. So lots of use.

mt84

12-09-2009, 11:57 AM

For me Once a week, :D .

MANN

12-09-2009, 12:07 PM

If it's a $200 difference, I'd have to say I'd go with the low.

If it is a 200$ difference I would prefer the higher version.

greezypete

12-09-2009, 12:11 PM

I would also prefer a higher quality.

That said , I probably would only use it once a month , and leave the scuba filling for the local fire dept.

DevilMan

12-09-2009, 12:13 PM

If it is a 200$ difference I would prefer the higher version.

Of course you would Mr. Wayne, only the best sir....

:rofl:

DM

Wrathbringer

12-09-2009, 12:17 PM

I'd say about 1-2 times a month, depending on how often I hit the field and if I remember/am able to top up at the end of the day.

PAINTHEY

12-09-2009, 12:27 PM

4-6 times a month filling 68/45’s.

MANN

12-09-2009, 12:41 PM

Of course you would Mr. Wayne, only the best sir....

:rofl:

DM

:rofl:

I have ~10 scubas that I would like to be able to fill (not for scuba purposes). I would put some serious hours on mine.

Ruler_Mark

12-09-2009, 12:41 PM

any word on the db output of this?

FutureMagOwner

12-09-2009, 12:44 PM

MANN

12-09-2009, 12:47 PM

any word on the db output of this?

To my knowledge none other than your compressor kicking on/off.

MANN

12-09-2009, 12:48 PM

I would have to see some numbers on the price difference before I could really make a decision on which one to use. Obviously everyone wants the best one but if it makes the difference between a $200 system versus a $1500 then I doubt people would be singing the same tune.

There are already systems out there that cost 1500.00. They are HPA boosters. Tom is tring to make a smaller/ more user friendly version.

XM15

12-09-2009, 12:49 PM

Right now I think I would use it 2 or 3 times a month to fill or top off my 2 68/4500 tanks for tinkering. I can see though finding that I use it more than I think I will since it will be conveniantly in my garage rather than going to get a fill. The cost factor to me would be if I have to rebuild it because I use it more than I expected. Would it cost the same or cheaper to just have gone with a heavy duty one to begain with?

crum55

12-09-2009, 12:51 PM

i would use it about 6 times a month

greezypete

12-09-2009, 01:28 PM

:rofl:

I have ~10 scubas that I would like to be able to fill (not for scuba purposes). I would put some serious hours on mine.

When I end up with one of these it most likely will never end up filling my scubas. It takes 20 hours to fill a 68/4500 , it will take a week to fill a scuba. Thats what the fire dept is for. (that and the whole fire suppression thing ;) )

skipdogg

12-09-2009, 01:39 PM

I would use it between 2-6 times a month. Also, I am not mechanically inclined nor handy with things, so I am always willing to pay more for something, if I have to do less to it (in this case fix/replace/oil,etc)

hitech

12-09-2009, 01:47 PM

...This is with a 16 RPM motor! (am I good or what?)...

16 RPM huh? That's without gearing?!? I am impressed. :wow:

:hail:

Gadget

12-09-2009, 01:49 PM

I'd use it to top up a 300bar 12litre dive tank - max of once a month.

That said, I'd rather pay extra and get that AGD bulletproof quality than go for a cheaper option.

Lohman446

12-09-2009, 01:53 PM

I think we need to consider the target audience in regards to paintball (I won't speak for the pellet forums) as far as use.

Generally those without ready access to air. Since many of the customers only have on or two tanks its not like they play in a style requiring filling more than everytime they play. Playing every other weekend or less is a real possibility, considering climates etc. I would bet that the average user would use it less than 30 times a year on the high end.

p8ntbal4me

12-09-2009, 02:12 PM

DevilMan

12-09-2009, 02:20 PM

Well what I was thinking was of my own shop use for the mini compressor.

I mean,.. what if you were to buy a few bulk tanks from Home Depot then hook the system to bleed off into the scuba tanks after they fill the (3) 30 gallon exchange tanks in the new garage we are building here at my place?

I could power my fathers air tools in a cascade system and keep my scubas filled all the time. He uses his tools more than I make fills from scubas,... so they would never be empty.

It seems to have more appeal than just paintball if it was to be thought out properly.

~ P8nt

Yes indeed.... At one time I had my small 5 gallon compressor plumbed to my 7?? Gallon portable piggy tank which was plumbed to my 12?? gallon sand blaster tank... So when the compressor ran, it filled up all 24 gallons to the 120PSI or so.... Lasted LOTS longer than just running my tools off of the 5 Gallon tank alone. So yeah, if you filled 30 gallon tank to 120PSI and used it to run the "booster" I would think it wouldn't even kick on to but 1 or 2 times... Though I can't know and am only guessing. Now if you kept your PB bottles plumbed in to where they had a regulated output of 120PSI back into the system, you could fill those to 45, plug em in and let them off gas back down to 120PSI if using the shop system. Not sure how far that would go, but it'd be interesting to find out.

DM

splat15k

12-09-2009, 02:28 PM

I'd probably use this around 10 times a month for tinkering. Higher quality parts get my vote.

Rudz

12-09-2009, 03:09 PM

Id probably use it once or twice a month to fill my tanks, but I might use it once in a while to top off friends scubas

And luckily I do own a shop compressor, yay!!!!

chopper duke

12-09-2009, 04:43 PM

I'd say I'd probably use it ~8 times a month. That's to keep 3 tanks filled and tinker.

going_home

12-09-2009, 05:06 PM

Supposed to play the day after Christmas.
If that happens that will be only 4 times this year I've played.
So I'd probably use it no more that 2 to 4 times a month, if that.

;)

maniacmechanic

12-09-2009, 05:50 PM

3 to 4 times a week , sometimes continuous , a h2o seperator on the outbound side would be nice also , I would rather pay more for a better , longer lasting product
I really don't think we have to worry about the Quality ( consider whos building it ) , just the lifespan before rebuild , I don't think any of the parts will say made in china either ;)
Will this have a big AGD logo on it ??? :clap:

Buck

12-09-2009, 06:53 PM

I will end up using it a lot, as its about a 3 hour round trip between the nearest HPA filling field and where I live.

I am so grateful that you are producing this!

Jacobd

12-09-2009, 07:04 PM

I'd probably fill a 68/45 about twice a month, although if I had a compressor I'm sure I'd find ways to use it all the time so I'm hopeing this will be like an Automag, still working great after 20+ years :headbang:
Any estimate at all on the final price yet?

PaintballEngineer

12-09-2009, 07:11 PM

*** Not sure if this would have any value but could a full SCUBA be regulated down and used as the primary stage. I use this on my booster to get the SCUBA down to 400PSI http://www.palmer-pursuit.com/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=8_9_28&products_id=174

:confused: Um, what would be the point of even using the compressor? Just regulate the pressure down to where you want it, using the compressor is adding a pointless step in the process. If I'm understanding this that is...

BenoitOWN

12-09-2009, 07:38 PM

:confused: Um, what would be the point of even using the compressor? Just regulate the pressure down to where you want it, using the compressor is adding a pointless step in the process. If I'm understanding this that is...

It would fill his tank faster and pass from a 3000psi scuba to a 4500psi fill. Then he could just fill up his scuba again.

PaintballEngineer

12-09-2009, 08:43 PM

Got a question for ya Tom.

I am happy to report the prototype is working VERY well and has filled a 68/4500 in about 20 hours. This is with a 16 RPM motor! (am I good or what?)

What would the Minikomp do if the rpms went up? (do I hear a name contest comming down the track????! :D ) Did you design it only to work at low speeds making this not an option?

(semi mischevious thoughts continue...)

Bigwooly1013

12-09-2009, 09:20 PM

To answer the asked question 2-3 times a month only filling my tanks for tinkering.

I am happy to report the prototype is working VERY well and has filled a 68/4500 in about 20 hours. This is with a 16 RPM motor! (am I good or what?)

This was using an 85 psi shop compressor feed which is really what makes the difference. The shop compressor hardly runs at all. For the people that didn't catch this in the other thread, a 68/4500 holds about 11 cubic feet of air when full. Your typical shop compressor puts out 90 psi at 5-10 cubic feet PER MINUTE. This means it should only have to kick on 2-3 times during the entire fill.

Question:

You say that input pressure is really what makes a difference. Does this mean that with a higher input pressure the fill time is reduced? IS the a Max input pressure that shouldn't be exceeded?

Will a higher input pressure cause a higher RPM on the pump causing more heat?

Does the size of the tank on your compressor have any affect on the process?

Thanks!

AGD

12-09-2009, 09:29 PM

I am going to try and answer your questions in an update to my first post in this thread. That way the info stays in one place.

AGD

Weber

12-09-2009, 09:39 PM

once a week for me, but it would only be for a 13ci tank, probably once a month for a larger then 45ci tank.

punkncat

12-09-2009, 11:35 PM

I would likely use it on the fill a scuba side. Even if it took me a week to do it, it would be worthwhile to me for fooling around, tooling on markers and whatnot. Even without my own collection any more, I still find plenty of others that let me mess with theirs.
If it turned out that didn't work as well as I think it might, then likely be filling a 45/45 several times a week.

I would definately be interested in a good water seperator as well. If one is not included with the pump (which I think it should be) then a link to a decent one with a good service life would be great. A little bit of water getting into any kind of HPA tank or emarker can be pretty detrimental

FutureMagOwner

12-09-2009, 11:41 PM

There are already systems out there that cost 1500.00. They are HPA boosters. Tom is tring to make a smaller/ more user friendly version.

I know, I was just over emphasizing the difference to make a point, but Tom ended up answering that issue anyway. At this point, I don't have too much more to add as far as useful input, besides that I wouldn't have an issue with it coming from china to reduce cost as long as you get what you actually send out to them to make (HPA regulators that have no actual regulating components comes to mind).

kenjay

12-09-2009, 11:58 PM

Still very interested in this product. Was particularly hoping to spend $300 max. I see this may be in the $400-500 range. I'm going to bet this will turn away 'some' of the potential buyers outside of the mag/cocker/etc tinkering market.

I think I can already assume the answer; but, can the tank be left to fill for a few hours, unhooked, then put back on to fill for a few hours again the next day, etc etc?

Smoothice

12-10-2009, 12:20 AM

This compressor will not cost less than 300 dollars and I am trying hard to keep it under 500. The motor is a huge expense and unless I can get them in China cheaper, its MORE than 200 bucks just for that. The motor is a big factor in the noise and reliability.

Keep up the good work. At this price point I am most likely out.

Seeing as I only play 6-8 times a year... :cry:

the123

12-10-2009, 02:39 PM

I would be a 10-20 times a year guy. Also Tom, please, like anything you make, make it strong!!! Also think base model and accessories. Paintballers love to accessorize. Make the base model cheap and make a killing on the accessories. Sell a whole fill station kit: hoses, adapters, connectors and of course COLORS. :)

Stayhuge

12-10-2009, 03:13 PM

I think that the price updates just made it a little unaffordable and impractable for me. Sorry Tom. I know you are doing your best!! Good luck and thanks for your hard work!! :cheers:

DevilMan

12-10-2009, 03:41 PM

I agree... It climbing closer and closer to the 5 bill mark is making it look less and less likely for me.

We'll see. Again I appreciate your time and effort TK, I hope we can make it worth your while.

DM

xero28

12-10-2009, 04:09 PM

Keep up the good work. At this price point I am most likely out.

Seeing as I only play 6-8 times a year... :cry:

Ditto. :( Thank you for your time and hard work into this though Tom. I know that there WILL be people who will be able to put these to good use.

Stayhuge

12-10-2009, 04:11 PM

I agree... It climbing closer and closer to the 5 bill mark is making it look less and less likely for me.

Plus the need for a regular shop compressor. Originally it was sub $300 and all in one. I thought it would be closer to $250 plus a shop compressor. I'll see what my bank account looks like when these are done, but where I am, teh nearest store is actually on my way home from work, so it seems pointless. For those that the nearest store is 3 hours, it will pay itself off in a year or so. We'll see, but then again, I would rather pass on an expensive yet super quality product, then buy something that breaks. Knowing that it is coming from Tom, we can be assured it will be top notch!! :cheers:

ezcreation

12-10-2009, 04:20 PM

I will pay the price required to get quality. I would rather it costs $500 and be safe/solid than cheaper and take any chance.

Count me in

DevilMan

12-10-2009, 04:28 PM

Well it doesn't hurt that I play for free (aka WORK) at the 2 fields I go to when I go. I also have the added benefit of being the "Rodent Control Technician" at one of the fields.. :D But I don't pay for my air or play at either field with $$$ I pay it off with work. Though if these were able to use a shop compressor (I have) or a scuba tank (I have) and be ran as a booster type of set up and were in the sub $300 range I could see myself getting one when I get back into the game a bit. With it climbing on cost (Not blaming, and fully understand how things cost money) though not sure if I'd be up for pulling the trigger on one for a bit.

Again thank you just the same.

DM

xero28

12-10-2009, 04:39 PM

Yeah, let me clarify a bit too. I'm not saying that since the price is higher than first anticipated I think it shouldn't be made. I'm saying that the price is simply out of my budget right now. If I did have the money for it, I too would rather it be built with quality products/materials and cost more than be made out of shotty materials to save a few $$$. Heck, that's why I'm still rockin' the Mag. Plus for me it would not be really necessary as I have a scuba tank and there's a dive shop 5 miles away. That and the fact that I would really just be using the compressor to fill tanks to tinker, it isn't something that's a must have.

:cheers:

onecaribou

12-10-2009, 08:51 PM

I'd use it to top off a 80 CF SCUBA from 1800 psi up to 3K once a month. I'd also fill 4 x 68/45 tanks twice a month.

chafnerjr

12-10-2009, 09:10 PM

Build me one that I can run two weeks a month even though I'll use it two days. "Because quality always shoots straight!"

AGD

12-10-2009, 09:21 PM

New developments as of today 12-10-09

I am now testing the newer 95 RPM motor and its making a big difference.

See the first post for the update. I think the price may be coming down :)

AGD

going_home

12-10-2009, 09:25 PM

New developments as of today 12-10-09

I am now testing the newer 95 RPM motor and its making a big difference.

See the first post for the update. I think the price may be coming down :)

AGD

:clap:

Oddux

12-10-2009, 11:28 PM

In terms of Price/Quality, do keep in mind you are asking a forum of Mag users, folks who are here because they chose quality and durability.

However, its my opinion that a more casual user would likely keep going to his local field than fork over even 200 for a compressor unit. The folks that are going to look into this product will be those who play often, probably tinker with their markers, and are likely going to expect to see a return eventually on such an investment. For that anticipated market, high usage can be expected, and you should probably aim for high durability.

Me personally, I would buy one in a heartbeat. I'm a woodsballer, I paintball every week in the summer, spring, and fall, and about once a month in the snowy winter months. So filling my main tank and backup, I'd probably use it for about 50-60 fills a year.

Ando

12-10-2009, 11:45 PM

because they chose quality and durability.
QFT

Put the best parts you can in mine. I'll pay for it. ;)

Ratzo

12-11-2009, 12:20 AM

I'm hopeing to buy a house out in the country next year, so I'm still really interested in an air source that will help me and my kids and our friends to play some ball in a home field.

Ratt

12-11-2009, 10:21 AM

Whew...I was starting to give up hope. $500 is a lot of money to spend on a compressor, and quite honestly, I probably wouldn't be able to do it. I feel better after reading the update. $300 is a lot more feasable. Good work, Tom!

jolt00

12-11-2009, 11:15 AM

I am listening to you and working hard on it.

UPDATE 12-10-09

I am now working with the 95 RPM motor and its filling a LOT faster. Estimates at this point are 6-8 hours for the standard 68/4500. It may be possible to downsize the motor to one less costly and go back to the 24 hour fill. I also have to try boosting the input pressure to 100+ psi. Don't give up hope on the $300 price tag!

:bounce: :bounce: :dance: :dance: :cheers:

kenjay

12-11-2009, 01:30 PM

Agreed. The update is great news. $200-$300 (plus quality) is king. How big do you expect this baby to be (size and weight)?

Asfaraslogic

12-12-2009, 07:10 AM

I would use this on scuba tanks, and would rather a better quality one.

Me too... :D

El Camino

12-12-2009, 08:19 AM

Originally Posted by AGD
"How long would you expect it to last?? This is why there is such a quality consideration here"

___AirGun Designs stands for QUALITY__right??

sjrtk

12-12-2009, 05:21 PM

300 still worth the price. thanks Tom

Smoothice

12-12-2009, 05:29 PM

voodooballer

12-12-2009, 07:19 PM

yes! something like this would be great. I love to tinker with my markers and my 4 yr old niece loves to dry fire my guns, but gets upset when I have no air. As proshop is an hr away and only open on thur,fri,sat at which I work 6 days a week. This could be pretty awesome to have. Id much rather a 8 hr or less fill then a full day :P

jkeyser14

12-12-2009, 08:39 PM

If you are going to do pre-orders let me know. I'll pay in full for 1-2 depending on the price.

hardr0ck68

12-16-2009, 08:35 PM

I know it is not the typical ADG way, but you could sell a base compressor, as cheap as possible. Then offer upgraded parts (for example more robust, higher RPM motor). That way folks will buy what they can afford; and in the world of paintball custom means more $$$$$, folks shell out $400+ for a private label marker that has 0% more technology, one could only imagine what they would pay for a motor that works 25% better than stock.

TeaQue

12-17-2009, 06:09 PM

Any updates?

AGD

12-17-2009, 08:28 PM

DevilMan

12-17-2009, 08:36 PM

Swamp Thing

12-17-2009, 08:46 PM

going_home

12-17-2009, 09:09 PM

I have two SCUBA's and I can not remember what they charge me off hand at the dive shop to fill but it is not cheap.

Way I would likely use is to fill both SCUBA's about once a month then start a dry tank off from scuba and use the pump to top it of to 4500 once or twice a month.

As far as cost I would rather pay $500 for a durable produce that last long time than have a lesser model that need a lot of work.

Swamp

I have the fill station to fill a paintball tank from a scuba tank but what kind of adapter is needed to fill a scuba tank ? I never though about that and what that would cost.
4 bux around here to fill a 3000 psi 80 cu in tank, but I wonder what the adapter will cost.

:confused:

Ando

12-17-2009, 09:53 PM

I have the fill station to fill a paintball tank from a scuba tank but what kind of adapter is needed to fill a scuba tank ? I never though about that and what that would cost.
4 bux around here to fill a 3000 psi 80 cu in tank, but I wonder what the adapter will cost.

:confused:

Use the same fill station you use to fill your tanks. It's just going in reverse.

It's basically the same setup as what a dive shop would use.

CatoRockwell

12-17-2009, 11:12 PM

Awesome simply awesome with the demise of sp so imminent and this return of our father AGD with this absolutely awesome invention it's like Christmas came early :cry: tears of happiness

I think in celebration there should be a shatnerball 2010!

Smoothice

12-17-2009, 11:36 PM

I think in celebration there should be a shatnerball 2010!

Lets make it Clareball 2010 ;)

Ratt

12-18-2009, 10:55 AM

matteusz

12-22-2009, 12:03 AM

Updates soon. The third generation required purchasing special tools that just came in today.

We are definitely talking two models at least. A basic version and a deluxe. I am also toying with you picking from a list of options and custom building them.

AGD

Hey Tom what Pellet gun forums did you post on? I am into air rifles as well as paintball and want to know where you went to talk to people.

There is a lesser known forum with a few people that seem smarter than average that I would suggest here:

http://talonairgun.com/forum/index.php

I am putting up a post to see what comes of it here:

http://talonairgun.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=123930#123930

I am super excited to see this project come to fruition. I think there would be a strong demand for these in the airgun market and would be happy to help you advertise or to act as a dealer as I have an established business selling to the airgun community.

To my knowledge most people that would want one of these for air rifle purposes would be filling scuba tanks. That is what I would use mine for too. Hmmm I wonder how many scuba shops would shudder to think about what one of these would do to their business? I wonder how many would want to sell one?

AGD

12-22-2009, 02:19 AM

BigEvil

12-22-2009, 06:05 AM

Matt,

Thanks for the offer and the help! I am hoping to sell them into the air gun market so once things get going we can talk.

I am now testing the final design configuration for weak links. Next is lifetime testing.

AGD

Awesome.

Hey Mr. Kaye, I have a question. Often when we were forced to use scuba tanks for fill, we would cascade them together. Would there be a benefit to taking two of these mini compressors and doing something similar?

Ando

12-22-2009, 07:48 AM

Awesome.

Hey Mr. Kaye, I have a question. Often when we were forced to use scuba tanks for fill, we would cascade them together. Would there be a benefit to taking two of these mini compressors and doing something similar?
I would think so Burger Slayer ;)

Double the unit. Double the fun :D

Back when I was in the Military stationed in Panama. We would go dive and live out in these secluded locations where it was a good 45-50 miles (which would = out to a good one and a half hr drive) to the nearest fill station. These units would been awesome for areas like that. A few marine biologist studding the coral formations in Panama one year stated that was the biggest down fall living out in the boondocks. Having to drive a couple of hrs just to fill tanks.

If this things small and light enough, marine biologist and I'm sure a few other science fields are going to kiss your feet Mr. Kaye. ;) As long as they have a power source they're going to have air and can travel out in areas with out worries of "well we only have air for one dive so lets make it count".

BigEvil

12-22-2009, 07:56 AM

I would think so Burger Slayer ;)

My that was a tasty burger.

chafnerjr

12-22-2009, 08:00 AM

UPDATE 12-10-09

I am now working with the 95 RPM motor and its filling a LOT faster. Estimates at this point are 6-8 hours for the standard 68/4500. It may be possible to downsize the motor to one less costly and go back to the 24 hour fill. I also have to try boosting the input pressure to 100+ psi. Don't give up hope on the $300 price tag!
:hail:

fierymartel

12-22-2009, 09:20 AM

is this coming with a compressor, or does this just increase the output of your compressor, I think it's called an intensifier. For $300, I'm in.

AGD

12-22-2009, 11:34 AM

Its a compressor but it takes an 85 psi shop compressor feed to boost the output and reduce the fill time. If you ran it without the shop compressor feed it will still fill your tank but take several times as long.

Double the compressors means cutting the fill time in half.

Filling scuba tanks with BREATHING air is a different animal because you have to make sure you don't poison the air with anything. There is nothing in my system that would hurt you that I know of, but it would take more research to make sure. I am sure hoping people outside of paintball can use this thing.

AGD

ezcreation

12-22-2009, 12:20 PM

mostpeople

12-22-2009, 01:03 PM

The breathing air component could be GIGANTIC potential for scuba divers. I play paintball and scuba dive and this would nail 2 issues.

Hes not making it for scuba fills, so to me that means there are no oil traps, or anything else filter wise to save you from ingesting all those things scuba people don't want to breathe in. Unless he made it with that in mind, I wouldn't try it.

.02

Ando

12-22-2009, 02:46 PM

Damn, totally forgot about the air quality part of this project for scuba.

Dive units use the outside air we breath (no **** captain obvious) and require filters and a water trap. The biggest thing in diving (filling tanks) is carbon monoxide poisoning. That happens when shops don't plumb the exhaust away from the fresh air inlet of a gas powered unit. Lucky we don't have to worry about all that. Water vapor, possible oil breakdown of the unit and carbon dioxide are the 3 big things i would say.

There is a company that sell kits for testing air quality in units like this. I'll try to run down the company a buddy uses for his shop. The company is used by just about every big dive organization and fire departments for testing their air systems.

The big thing here is keeping the air clean. Installing a certified scuba air purifier/filter and water trap in the system will be more then adequate. I believe the fire department air requirements are class D rated, scuba uses class E or E+. The users just need to keep up with the filter changes for this to work.

The biggest downfall using this unit for scuba is by law a unit has to have a certificate saying it's cleared for use (at least in the states). I'm not sure if every unit that's produced needs one or if they all can be lumped under the same certificate under "special circumstances". That's something that will need to be researched.

That could be another option you can offer with the unit Mr. Kaye.

Frizzle Fry

12-22-2009, 03:03 PM

Have the AO ad banners gotten smarter?

Every time I look at this thread it advertises either a shop compressor or related parts... I'm aware that content-based ads have been around forever, I just never realized we had'em here. I wonder what would happen if we started a thread about bras and panties; Victorias Secret ads?

Ando

12-22-2009, 03:09 PM

http://www.airchecklab.com/about-trace-analytics.html

They do sell kits or they can get you in contact with a person to do the test in your area.

Jaron

12-22-2009, 03:11 PM

I wonder what would happen if we started a thread about bras and panties; Victorias Secret ads?
You can always try, though I'm not sure what the mods would think.

Frizzle Fry

12-22-2009, 05:02 PM

You can always try, though I'm not sure what the mods would think.

Shirow beat me to it. Pop over and talk undies with us ;)

criticalhammer

12-22-2009, 09:34 PM

I'm one of the people who fall into the "does not have an air compressor" category. Worse yet I live in an apartment so I cant go buy one. With that said how long would a fill take at your current RPM speed without the 85 psi input?

matteusz

12-22-2009, 11:17 PM

Matt,

Thanks for the offer and the help! I am hoping to sell them into the air gun market so once things get going we can talk.

I am now testing the final design configuration for weak links. Next is lifetime testing.

AGD

No problem Tom I am excited to see this project come to fruition. You should go over to the Talon forum and see the flack they are giving me! Man I thought paintballers could be jaded and sceptical. Airgunners add new dimesion to the attitude. I should have known that from when I started selling them products that were not available at the time.

Anyway scuba tanks will be important to this crowd as they all want to fill larger volume than most paintballers. If it fits with your other testing it would be nice to get some stats on how long larger volumes take with the final models.

Mat

joelbird

12-23-2009, 04:57 PM

I like this idea but not for my paintball tanks. I wanna use it for my power tank for off roading. it would be a scuba tank but I may need it filled within the week between two trips. This might be a direction to look at.

jade_monkey07

12-23-2009, 10:40 PM

I'm looking forward to this, except i dont have a shop compressor.....:(

__________________________
http://home.comcast.net/~allfor114all/AoCanada2.gif

Ratzo

12-24-2009, 12:00 AM

Since it would use the pressure from the tank on the compressor to fill with.
Could you hook up a scuba tank to feed this contraption to fill an HPA bottle? Just curious.

boarder2k7

12-25-2009, 01:36 AM

Sir Kaye, I must say this is simply amazing!!

This is great news for me since all of the places that used to fill near me closed or no longer fill tanks, but just sell gear.

I thought of trying to make one of these myself a while back, and totally forgot about it after figuring that I could never make it fill tanks at a reasonable rate or be durable enough to bother with. I didn't think of pre-pressurizing the input which is a great idea! (That and I was 15 at the time and had no facilities to try it :D )

As a curiosity, would it be possible to make a model that could handle a 140ish PSI input or more? I realize that if you're going for an 85 PSI input that the higher pressure could overstress the motor, so that wouldn't be good, but my primary compressor will hit 150 and my smaller one hits 200... I'm not sure how much of a difference at all this would make in the fill time.

I would personally love to get a the highest end model that I could, if only because I'm a sucker for well built stuff, although getting this will come after I finally get to pick up an Xmag....

@Ratzo
You could use a regulator from another air tank to drop the input pressure down to 85 PSI to feed this, and let it boost it back up, but that would be rather inefficient. You would then be using up your 3k fill to fill a 4500 fill, might as well use the 3k to directly fop off the 4.5k tank and then use this little compressor to top off the last 1500 PSI, it would take much less time like that. I think the other best bet if you have access to 3k PSI tanks is to get a booster like the shop near me used to use to bump the 3k tank up to 4500 for their fills.

And to those who don't have a compressor... These (http://www.amazon.com/Master-Flow-MF-1050-Portable-Compressor/dp/B000L9AD2U) cost between $50 and $80 depending on sales and are a great compressor. Although any little direct compressor you have around could work. You could then use a pressure switch (http://www.suspensionconnection.com/cgi-bin/suscon/90100.html) feeding some small tank as a buffer. I think most of you probably have one of those little 5 gallon tanks you fill up at a gas station or whatnot to top off your tires? That would work as a buffer tank. Not an ideal solution I know but its the cheapest thing that I could come up with right now.

There are also some reconditioned Hitachi air compressors up on eBay that are about $125 that would probably be similar in end cost and less of a headache unless you happened to already have some of the parts to try it that other way I mentioned.

-B

Oh and Merry Christmas guys! :D

AGD

12-25-2009, 02:48 AM

ta2maki

12-25-2009, 05:26 AM

And to those who don't have a compressor... These (http://www.amazon.com/Master-Flow-MF-1050-Portable-Compressor/dp/B000L9AD2U) cost between $50 and $80 depending on sales and are a great compressor. Although any little direct compressor you have around could work. You could then use a pressure switch (http://www.suspensionconnection.com/cgi-bin/suscon/90100.html) feeding some small tank as a buffer. I think most of you probably have one of those little 5 gallon tanks you fill up at a gas station or whatnot to top off your tires? That would work as a buffer tank. Not an ideal solution I know but its the cheapest thing that I could come up with right now.

There are also some reconditioned Hitachi air compressors up on eBay that are about $125 that would probably be similar in end cost and less of a headache unless you happened to already have some of the parts to try it that other way I mentioned.

-B

Oh and Merry Christmas guys! :D

From the looks of it you can probably get away with a tiny pancake compressor like this. (http://tinyurl.com/yzyqa2g) Although you may have to run this in your basement as it will kick on more frequently, it would be a cheaper and overall better solution.

doc_Zox

12-25-2009, 12:18 PM

could you use one of these that you fill from a gas station compressor?
30 dollar, 5 Gallon, 125 PSI Portable Pancake Air Tank (http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=66795)

EdgePaintball.com

12-26-2009, 11:31 AM

Agd,

Hey this is Matt Shook from Ks. I have something I have used at D-Day you might be interested in. I dont want to ackowledge it to the public. Please email me at [email protected]. or call the store.

Thanks
Matt Shook

National Pro Shop
The Edge Paintball Adventures
www.wichitapaintball.com

boarder2k7

12-27-2009, 02:04 AM

More pressure will fill tanks faster but I am sizing the motor to accommodate the 85 psi input. If you wanted to spend more money on a better motor then you could probably go with a higher input. The motor is under a lot of stress with the high pressures in the pistons.
Alright that sounds good. How big of a motor are we talking about? 1/2 horsepower? If yours is 1kW then its a little under a quarter right?
I think I would like to buy the compressor with whatever motor you put on it, and then when using it at my house, swap on a big motor (if that would be possible), and take it off and put the stock back on when I want to transport it or let someone else use it.

From the looks of it you can probably get away with a tiny pancake compressor like this. (http://tinyurl.com/yzyqa2g) Although you may have to run this in your basement as it will kick on more frequently, it would be a cheaper and overall better solution.
Yeah that would definitely be a much better solution. I meant that if someone already had some or most of those parts, then it would be cheap to put it together as I mentioned, otherwise you would be way better off buying a small compressor.

could you use one of these that you fill from a gas station compressor?
30 dollar, 5 Gallon, 125 PSI Portable Pancake Air Tank
Not really. The problem is that you need to have almost 12 cubic feet of air at atmospheric pressure to fill a 68ci tank to 4500 PSI.
5 gallons is 0.67 cubic feet
12CF*15PSI=180
0.67CF*xPSI=180
In this case x = 254 PSI, and that would not be possible with that tank.
For 125 PSI to work you would need:
xCF*140PSI=180
This would be 1.28 CF or almost 10 gallons.

The other problem would be that I don't think the gas stations will fill much past 50 PSI, higher than most tires. This would be by the same math 2.8CF or almost 21 gallons.

Note: For PV calculations to work, I am working off of absolute pressures, so ground is set at 15. This is why the 125PSI tank charge calculation is done at 140PSI.

Also these are "exact" numbers, working as if you could get all of the air out of the donor tank into the fill tank, assuming no leakage. Since you aren't really going to pull a full vacuum in the donor tank, and leaks are always inevitable in some manner or another, the donor tanks would have to be even bigger. I think without a compressor it just wouldn't be practical.

He did say though that it could pump up from ambient, just that it took much more time. That would mean that you could at least start it off with whatever tank you had until it was empty, and then let it finish the run pumping from ambient when the tank ran out. Either that or you could just keep refilling the donor tank as you had time to go get it filled, as long as it never got completely empty while it was attached (trying to pull a vacuum with the compressor) you would be fine.

-B

mpsd

12-27-2009, 09:00 AM

Tom,

I'm concerned about the size of the final product. I'd like to know if one will be able to put it on a bag and travel with it either by plane or car. For that matter, the final product should be not so heavy (say 25 pounds at max) and not so big.

Hope you have a wonderfull 2010, full of health, peace and work. May this new compressor be a new hit for you!

:cheers:

Mendel.

AGD

12-27-2009, 11:25 AM

MPSD,

It should easily be under 25 lbs. I would estimate about 12-15 lbs but the motor is not finalized yet. The compressor box that holds the pistons is probably 6x6x18 and the motor sticks out of the long side. Again this is not set in stone so don't hold me to it.

AGD

mpsd

12-27-2009, 02:43 PM

boarder2k7

12-29-2009, 02:38 PM

FA22RaptorF22

12-29-2009, 07:30 PM

That is awesome! :clap:

I wonder what the TSA Baggage screeners would say about it though.... :rolleyes:

-B

Tom will provide a lead bag for the unit so it can stay undetected haha.

criticalhammer

12-30-2009, 07:05 PM

Tom,

Are you requiring a shop compressor for the units you are making?

chafnerjr

12-31-2009, 08:45 AM

Tom,

Are you requiring a shop compressor for the units you are making?
His designs are currently based on having an 85 PSI input from a shop compressor. I can't remember if there was another alternative discussed earlier, but yes.

Here's a question that I can't remember if it was discussed... is there a filtration system planned for this or am I filtering everything on the air going into this unit? Something tells me that I am going to be a little more picky about my filtration that I'm currently using for filling tires and the like.

Keep up the good work (and mini compressor facebook page!!!)

JKR

01-01-2010, 09:04 AM

TK,

I am looking at shop air compressors in advance of the release of your portable air compressor for filling HPA tanks. In another thread about your miniature compressor, I recall you saying you knew someone making air compressors from refrigerator compressors that ran practically silently. I was wondering if that person had a website, eBay account or other means of contact so I could check out what he had to offer.

Thanks in advance!
JKR

AGD

01-01-2010, 11:20 AM

We have been out of touch but I will see if I can contact him.

AGD

kcombs9

01-01-2010, 11:31 AM

JKR

01-01-2010, 11:59 AM

If TK can't get you any info just search it in google, I know a few guys that just looked it up and made one.

Hope he can find it. Looking to buy a complete unit, not make my own.

CatoRockwell

01-01-2010, 01:14 PM

AGD,

I'm also looking into getting a shop compressor for multiple reasons, but especially for this. Will it make the fill go faster if I get one that has 150 output psi? Also do I need to look into a particular gallon amount? I was thinking like a 5-6 gallon one.

To anyone on the forum:

I've been looking at compressor's at home depot among other places. Rigdid looks like some seriously high quality stuff. Any input on this any brands to go with or steer clear of?

p8ntbal4me

01-01-2010, 01:26 PM

To anyone on the forum:

I've been looking at compressor's at home depot among other places. Rigdid looks like some seriously high quality stuff. Any input on this any brands to go with or steer clear of?

I love my Ingersol-Rand compressor,.. best one I have owned yet. A little more in price (less than $100) but thats all my company buys now,.. they have the best warranty program out there as well.

But your right about Rigid as well,... they make a quality product.

My father has a portable Rigid 5-gallon elec. compressor and we have done a 44,000 square foot roofing job running 2 roofing nailers,.. no problems. We also just completely gutted my apartment and re-built it using this compressor as well.... still runs awesome!

~ P8nt

http://home.comcast.net/~allfor114all/AoUSMC.gif

AGD

01-01-2010, 01:27 PM

Generally speaking you want to look for an "oil-less" type. You should plug it in before buying it to see how noisy it is. They tend to run these things full out and they are aggravating to listen too. You don't need much for the mini-compressor so pick a size based on the other things you will use it for.

AGD

Dukie

01-01-2010, 01:56 PM

JKR

01-01-2010, 01:59 PM

I don't need one for construction projects - just for filling HPA tanks and for tires. Would a very small compressor work? For example, this one from Home Depot...

http://www.homedepot.com/Tools-Hardware-Air-Compressors-Tools-Accessories-Portable-Compressors/h_d1/N-5yc1vZ1xr5Zbb2v/R-202019874/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053

p8ntbal4me

01-01-2010, 04:53 PM

Here is a video of a compressor thats setup in a method Im going to rig mine once my shop is done: http://www.youtube.com/user/saunixcomp#p/u/40/By9YDnDArQU

Skip to 8:25 in the video (the end) to hear the compressor running. Its about as loud as an air filter on a large fish tank,.. very quiet unit,... but pricey.

This is also a very good compressor company to buy from: Castair (http://www.castair.net/commercial-air-compressors.html)

My uncle has 2 of these in his shop and doesnt complain about the lack of air loss whenever hes working with his air tools,.. they seem to run quiet and very effective.

~ P8nt
http://home.comcast.net/~allfor114all/AoUSMC.gif

Ratzo

01-01-2010, 11:41 PM

Dukie that is exactly what I was thinking when I broached the question earlier, but didn't get my point across as well as you.

PaintballEngineer

01-02-2010, 12:04 AM

FA22RaptorF22

01-02-2010, 12:31 AM

What happens if you put extra pressure into this setup?

For example my big compressor puts out about 120 psi.

AGD

01-02-2010, 12:40 AM

You can't put 1000 psi into the compressor because the upstream parts are not rated to handle the pressure. You are better off buying a cheap air compressor and using my mini-compressor to fill the scuba tank.

If you put 100-120 psi in it would fill faster but could stall the motor.

AGD

PaintballEngineer

01-02-2010, 12:50 AM

Frizzle Fry

01-02-2010, 01:35 AM

Actualy, if you run your compressor at higher pressures than the mini can take, then you could just get a second regulator and attach it directly to the mini. That way it wouldn't matter what pressure your on compressor regulator was set to.

True. I'm guessing FA22RaptorF22 was hoping that his big air compressor would have an advantage over his smaller low-output compressor. Not the case, but then again buying a small compressor on the cheap at Home Depot to devote entirely to Toms new setup is my plan... I wouldn't want to tie up my big compressor, and I'd have to spend money for the other regulator anyway, plus I'll probably be filling tanks all the time.

boarder2k7

01-03-2010, 08:10 PM

I wouldn't want to tie up my big compressor, and I'd have to spend money for the other regulator anyway, plus I'll probably be filling tanks all the time.

It wouldn't really tie up your other compressor since you can use more than one tool at a time, and it isn't going to use enough air to adversely affect your other uses. A reg is cheaper than another compressor. If you want another one, this one is $90 but I don't know if its any good. http://www.everyaircompressor.com/Campbell-Hausfeld-FP2048-CHP1106.html

As another note about compressors, the direct drive ones are great because of their price and maintenance free operation. One thing to keep in mind though is that they are about twice as loud as a belt driven compressor.

I have a 33 Gallon craftsman Direct drive, and another of about the same size that is so old I don't even know who made it because its worn off, and the motor has been replaced. The old one is one of the belt driven types, and after all this time, it still works great, and is extremely quiet. The beauty of these is that you can often get them for dirt cheap on craigslist and the like, I just checked and there are 3 or 4 of them for under $100 near me.

-B

FA22RaptorF22

01-03-2010, 08:22 PM

As another note about compressors, the direct drive ones are great because of their price and maintenance free operation. One thing to keep in mind though is that they are about twice as loud as a belt driven compressor.

This^

DoubleDutch

01-05-2010, 03:43 PM

It would be really nice if these would accept high pressure inputs ( 1000psi ) It could then be used to scavenge the fairly uselss residual in a scuba tank and bring your smaller tanks up to pressure. A scuba tank with 1000psi in it is fairly useless, pumping that down into a smaller tank should drastically cut the fill time.

Its nice to see you getting back in to paintball in any way shape or form tom!!! :dance:

This got me thinking... what about regulating the air out of a SCUBA tank down to 85 PSI to provide the input pressure? If you have 2 tanks or more, you could use one to supply low PSI air to fill the other to 3000 psi, and keep them both full at all times by swapping them a time or two. Then you would have air in your HPA bottles, plus in your SCUBA tanks, for a full day of renegade ball. When you get home, repeat using the residual air, and voila, full tanks. This might be good for someone that has 2 SCUBA tanks but no compressor.

If you happen to have a SCUBA first stage that has adjustable pressure on the LP port, even better, just set it to 85 PSI and no more equipment to buy. Otherwise, I believe most SCUBA first stage regulators are set at 125 PSI on the LP port.

How much would a regulator cost to bring SCUBA pressure down to 85 PSI? This approach might only make sense economically if you already have all the gear (vs buying a cheap compressor). I guess it would be quieter too.

AGD

01-05-2010, 04:32 PM

If you start with a full scuba tank feeding into the compressor and then into an empty scuba tank, you will end up with the feed tank empty and the compressor tank full. No gain.

AGD

DoubleDutch

01-05-2010, 04:35 PM

Duh... I see that now. Never mind.

mpsd

01-05-2010, 06:34 PM

If you start with a full scuba tank feeding into the compressor and then into an empty scuba tank, you will end up with the feed tank empty and the compressor tank full. No gain.

AGD

Still, if I don't have a small 85psi compressor, can I use the scuba as an input, in order to make the filling faster? Would I really need to reg it down to 85 psi or could I use 900 psi, for example?

I also would like to know about the filling times you are getting with the new 200 rpm motor. Did you test filling a 68ci tank from 0 to 4500 psi with no shop compressor helping? And what about the noise?

I see a great opportunity for re-selling those products here in Brazil. Let's talk about it later, when you have it ready, ok?

:cheers:

DoubleDutch

01-05-2010, 07:31 PM

I am pretty sure I read that with the stock motor, the max input will be 85 PSI. If you have a SCUBA tank with say 900 PSI in it, you could always fill your HPA tank to that pressure, and then use the mini compressor from there, I am sure it would save some time.

I am also interested in compressor-less approaches. If going from ambient pressure (is that still an option?) takes too long, and you don't mind some exercise, you could always use a bicycle pump to pump up the 5 gallon 125 PSI pressure tank that doc_Zox mentioned earlier, to 85 psi, and then feed the minicompressor with it. If that tank has separate input/output, maybe you can see if you can keep the pressure at 85 with the pump while the compressor is working!

Say isn't Embraer in Sao Paulo? I might have to go visit them sometime in the next couple of months for work.

mpsd

01-05-2010, 08:03 PM

Say isn't Embraer in Sao Paulo? I might have to go visit them sometime in the next couple of months for work.

Embraer is in Sao Jose dos Campos, in the state of Sao Paulo and about 50 minutes away from the city of Sao Paulo.

If you do come, LMK. Maybe we can go to a local field or something, just let me know a little before you come so I can setup a game with some friends.

:cheers:

AGD

01-05-2010, 10:55 PM

I am guestimating it will take a bit more than 24 hours to fill the tank without the shop air feed. The higher RPM's make a big difference.

You could (if your careful) bleed the scuba into an air tank and fill it to 100 psi. Then hook that to the compressor. Cheapest and fastest way if you have residual air.

AGD

fierymartel

01-06-2010, 07:53 AM

Here's a link http://artsupplysource.com/airbrush.htm#compressors to compressors showed on that you tube video. I wonder how much air (CFM) is going to be needed. I may look at spending $500 on a compressor if I can leave it run all night & not hear it!

ezcreation

01-08-2010, 11:36 AM

Hi Tom
Quick question for us Canadians: will you be able to ship it to us? Would it be worth it to regroup one big order?

Thank you

AGD

01-08-2010, 07:36 PM

Sure I can ship to Canada but you have all the tax issues across the boarder. You have to pay them, nothing I can do. Also there are similar problems if you send stuff back for repair.

AGD

AGD

01-08-2010, 07:45 PM

The mini-compressor needs almost no CFM. What you need is 85 psi so thats all you should worry about.

AGD

Tao

01-08-2010, 09:49 PM

Hi Tom
Quick question for us Canadians: will you be able to ship it to us? Would it be worth it to regroup one big order?

Thank you

A group order wouldn't help much. It would be shipped to someone who would have to remail all of the compressors, and should be compensated. This is basically what a distributor would do. It would only increase the cost since the distributor is a middle man who would take a cut.

Buying direct from TK would be easy. Customs might ding you for sales tax and they might not. it depends on the size of the package and the price. If we brought in one big shipment it would be taxed for sure!

If you order from Canada only get it shipped via US postal service. UPS robs you blind with thier customs brokerage fees when you import.

Also you might get taxed again for the value of the item as it returns to you if you ever send it back for repairs. This would have to be claimed back through customs which is a bunch of paperwork...

ezcreation

01-09-2010, 11:50 AM

A group order wouldn't help much. It would be shipped to someone who would have to remail all of the compressors, and should be compensated. This is basically what a distributor would do. It would only increase the cost since the distributor is a middle man who would take a cut.

Buying direct from TK would be easy. Customs might ding you for sales tax and they might not. it depends on the size of the package and the price. If we brought in one big shipment it would be taxed for sure!

If you order from Canada only get it shipped via US postal service. UPS robs you blind with thier customs brokerage fees when you import.

Also you might get taxed again for the value of the item as it returns to you if you ever send it back for repairs. This would have to be claimed back through customs which is a bunch of paperwork...

Agreed but a resaller in Canada could be a could start no?

Sundown

01-09-2010, 12:11 PM

Agreed but a resaller in Canada could be a could start no?

I am sure it would be a good idea. I am just wondering if having one shipped might not be charged at customs compared to a big shipment that will most likely be charged. I am just not certain of all the ''financial'' aspects of this.

And the person really needs to make sure they will sell them all :)

Voltar1

03-29-2010, 12:36 PM

Tom, let me know when you would like to sell me one for evaluation and report :)
Am most interested in getting one, so please advise.
I am in Alberta, Canada

Walter....

AGD

03-29-2010, 01:20 PM

Voltar1

03-29-2010, 04:50 PM

Walter please email me directly so we can talk on the phone. As the "pellet gun" guy I am interested in your feedback. Email through facebook or my homepage http://tomkaye.com/personal.shtml

thanks

Tom

I have yet to find your email addy :)

will keep looking, posted to your wall on facebook.

[email protected]

Thanks Tom

Walter.....

Seth1784

03-31-2010, 02:18 PM

just thought i'd help here... if you look at his link it's got it on that page... you've gotta use the ol noodle there.

tomattomkayedotcom

just do the whole at to @ and so on.

too this idea is pretty neat :D

AGD-Brian

04-03-2010, 07:01 PM

Hi Tom, this is Brian Cik from Airgun. I need to run some things by you, I cant send you mail here, and I dont have your personal one anymore... can you send me your email address please. Oh and say hi to Carol for me. =) Thank you! Oh and too bad you picked a name for the compressor already, I've a most perfect name... and right up your astral alley no less. dig it.

Beemer

04-03-2010, 08:56 PM

can you send me your email address please.

Silly rabbit its in the post right before yours.

just thought i'd help here... if you look at his link it's got it on that page... you've gotta use the ol noodle there.

tomattomkayedotcom

just do the whole at to @ and so on.

____________

http://home.comcast.net/~beemerone/AoIL.gif

AGD-Brian

04-07-2010, 12:31 PM

doh. thanks beemer.

Beemer

04-17-2010, 01:33 AM

of freaking motors.............

http://home.comcast.net/~beemerone/Motors1S.JPG

http://home.comcast.net/~beemerone/Motors2S.JPG

http://home.comcast.net/~beemerone/Motors5S.JPG

DevilMan

04-17-2010, 02:14 AM

of freaking motors.............

http://home.comcast.net/~beemerone/Motors1S.JPG
http://home.comcast.net/~beemerone/Motors2S.JPG
http://home.comcast.net/~beemerone/Motors5S.JPG

Oooo oooo oooo.. I see mine!!!

Woot woot!!!

DM

DevilMan

04-17-2010, 02:15 AM

And you can build a raft outta the boxes when they are all done...

:D

that or a good stock of napalm! :mad:

DM

Ando

04-17-2010, 06:15 AM

that or a good stock of napalm! :mad:

DM

:clap: The dumb stuff we use to do when we were kids :rofl:

blakeer9

04-17-2010, 06:42 AM

That's great! I'd use mine every week between the constant testing of paintball guns and my love of shooting in the backyard, I can't wait til these are availible!!! Sign me up!!!

DevilMan

04-17-2010, 11:38 AM

:clap: The GREAT stuff we use to do when we were kids :rofl:

FIXED!

And what do you mean "used to"??? :spit_take

DM

sjrtk

04-17-2010, 06:11 PM

FIXED!

And what do you mean "used to"??? :spit_take

DM

My thoughts exactly.

Beemer

04-19-2010, 10:50 PM

http://home.comcast.net/~beemerone/Parts2a.JPG

Jacobd

04-19-2010, 11:08 PM

AHHHHH! it's so awesome! more part porn!

nerobro

04-23-2010, 01:04 AM

This has me rather excited. I can't wait til I can get my hands on one of these. :-)

GRAYGHOST

04-23-2010, 12:52 PM

when these become available sign me up for a shure sale THANK YOU :headbang:

Beemer

04-23-2010, 01:26 PM

AHHHHH! it's so awesome! more part porn!

http://home.comcast.net/~beemerone/Parts4a.JPG

http://home.comcast.net/~beemerone/Parts5a.JPG

___________

http://home.comcast.net/~beemerone/AoIL.gif

DevilMan

04-23-2010, 01:33 PM

http://home.comcast.net/~beemerone/Parts4a.JPG

http://home.comcast.net/~beemerone/Parts5a.JPG

You've been warned enough! You of all people should know that showing p0rn is not allowed! Enjoy your vacation!

:rofl:

paintball72

04-23-2010, 10:21 PM

ohh I really hope I get on the first list to buy one of these.

crosses fingers :rolleyes:

Jacobd

04-23-2010, 10:43 PM

I must scrape up the cash for one of these, can't wait.

Zone Drifter

04-24-2010, 09:40 AM

Yes, I greatly anticipate these. :D

ElPanda

04-26-2010, 09:12 AM

yeah this will be awesome

El Camino

04-26-2010, 10:26 AM

Has the price and sell date been set yet??

joeyt

04-27-2010, 11:59 AM

you better make a trillion of these, based on the interest on facebook and air blogs.

you need an investor??????

ha ha ha ha ha

AGD

04-27-2010, 09:30 PM

Having to make a trillion is what I am worried about.....

AGD

mpsd

04-27-2010, 09:42 PM

Having to make a trillion is what I am worried about.....

AGD

Hey, Tom, did you ever choose a final name for it? I'm curious.

:cheers:

Will Wood

04-27-2010, 09:57 PM

Hey, Tom, did you ever choose a final name for it? I'm curious.

:cheers:
Aye.

We can't stand secrets.

Tell us! :dance:

AGD

04-28-2010, 01:18 AM

nerobro

04-28-2010, 01:55 AM

I like it. It would be apt to pick up that name in the end anyway. :-) At least it's not a magic box.

Will Wood

04-28-2010, 10:47 AM

Yes I did, for better or worse it will be called:

Shoebox Compressor

While it doesn't have a lot of drama, it does describe exactly what it is. Its also easy to spell etc.

Congrats to SSP Reaper who was the first person to suggest the name. He will get a compressor for only 100 bucks! Thanks to everyone else who participated. You guys are still the best!!

AGD
:shooting: I like it.

Simple. To the point.

What is it? A Compressor! What's it look like? A Shoebox!

GJ Reaper! Congrats!

Jacobd

04-28-2010, 12:54 PM

Having to make a trillion is what I am worried about.....

AGD

Why's that? seems like it'd be a good thing.
I like the name too.

SSP REAPER

04-28-2010, 01:10 PM

Yes I did, for better or worse it will be called:

Shoebox Compressor

While it doesn't have a lot of drama, it does describe exactly what it is. Its also easy to spell etc.

Congrats to SSP Reaper who was the first person to suggest the name. He will get a compressor for only 100 bucks! Thanks to everyone else who participated. You guys are still the best!!

AGD
AWESOME! Thanks Tom. I kept it simple and tried not to rack my brain and dream up some exotic name. Guess it worked out for the best huh? :D

Let me know when it is available and I will send the payment right over :hail:

BigEvil

04-28-2010, 01:21 PM

Look at the big brain on Sterling!

Ando

04-28-2010, 02:08 PM

Look at the big brain on Sterling!
For the seriously :p

skipdogg

04-28-2010, 02:37 PM

I thought it would be named 'the goat' for sure :cry:
That must have been a close second ;)

SSP REAPER

04-28-2010, 03:21 PM

Look at the big brain on Sterling!
;) haha!

Beemer

04-28-2010, 10:12 PM

Congrats Reaper. :cheers:

Parts is parts..................

http://home.comcast.net/~beemerone/Parts5bSmall.JPG

HiRes.......http://home.comcast.net/~beemerone/Parts5b.JPG

splat15k

04-28-2010, 10:17 PM

Congrats Sterling! Thank you for the pics Beemer; I am extremely excited for this compressor!

SSP REAPER

04-29-2010, 06:54 AM

Congrats Sterling! Thank you for the pics Beemer; I am extremely excited for this compressor!
Thanks! I am excited too :D The wife already knows about this so I won't have to sneak mine home :p

ElPanda

04-29-2010, 08:19 PM

cant wait to have one :ninja:

Swamp Thing

04-30-2010, 09:37 AM

Remodeling my house and adding some workshop space. I have the place all picked out for at least one if not two (3000&4500PSI) of these babies. Can not wait for it to be released.

Swamp

Squrkk

04-30-2010, 11:36 AM

This may be a stupid idea, but can you hook up two Shoebox Compressors (with adaptors) to one tank and fill it in 1/2 the time?

joeyt

04-30-2010, 07:32 PM

Yes I did, for better or worse it will be called:

Shoebox Compressor

AGD

oh. I would have suggested TinyKompressor.

Or maybe TKompressor.

Can I have one for $100 too?

ha ha ha

good luck!

AGD

04-30-2010, 09:38 PM

This may be a stupid idea, but can you hook up two Shoebox Compressors (with adaptors) to one tank and fill it in 1/2 the time?

YES absolutely!

AGD

Squrkk

04-30-2010, 11:39 PM

YES absolutely!

AGD

Any chance of "buy 1 get 1, 1/2 off". :^p

Beemer

05-04-2010, 08:24 PM

Nice connectors. :cool:

http://home.comcast.net/~beemerone/Swagelok1.JPG

http://home.comcast.net/~beemerone/BuildUp1.JPG

joeyt

05-13-2010, 03:30 PM

I just got a Marauder air rifle, and pumped it up to 3000 psi with my new crosman hand pump...

I'm 55... if I don't get a Shoebox my death is going to be on your hands...

mpsd

05-13-2010, 03:59 PM

I just got a Marauder air rifle, and pumped it up to 3000 psi with my new crosman hand pump...

I'm 55... if I don't get a Shoebox my death is going to be on your hands...

LOL No pressure at all...

ezcreation

05-13-2010, 04:18 PM

So jealous of the guys going to LL3...Not only they will play an awesome field, but they will meet TK and finally they will have first dibs on the SHOEBOX!

Man this sucks... ;)

joeyt

05-13-2010, 04:31 PM

LOL No pressure at all...
need to rise above the din...

ha ha ha

Beemer

05-15-2010, 06:15 AM

Three Part Harmony......... :cool:

http://home.comcast.net/~shoeboxtech/3PartHarmony1b.JPG

Vid

http://home.comcast.net/~shoeboxtech/3PartHarmony2.AVI 14Megs

ezcreation

05-15-2010, 06:29 AM

When can we please give a downpayment (or full) for these units ? :)

fishmishin

05-15-2010, 06:38 AM

Is there a price tag on this yet? I need to know how much to bring with me to LL3 so I can bring one home.

my automag

05-15-2010, 07:24 AM

WOW, those look great. :dance: :bounce: :dance:
So, what are the odds of EVERYBODY wanting one (or two), and to actually getting one(or two)? :D
Are these going to be produced in a limited run and amount only, or will there be more produced again for ALL those that would like to order one after the first sales are completed?
Seems like there might not be enough for everybody wanting one. :eek:
Good luck to all,....TOM..... :D

Ando

05-15-2010, 09:45 AM

I believe what was said is TK's doing a run of 100 or so (Last known price $3-400), mainly selling them to AO'er and using the forums and Facebook page for QC proposes. Once things (bugs if any) get worked out I believe he's going to mass produce them for the masses. That was the last thing I read at least.

AGD

05-15-2010, 10:08 AM

Ando is correct. This is the "shake out" run where we get everything dialed in. We have already scrapped and then re-manufactured about 6 parts to get them right.

Notice the TINY compressor that is feeding all three units. We bought this compressor from Harbor Freight for 40 bucks on sale. A good deal if you need one. I could have never put a third stage in the Shoebox for that price.

The first ones will be sold right here in this thread. Your best chance to get one is keep monitoring here on AO. Should be the next few weeks or so. Price wise they are going to be closer to 400 than to 300.

AGD

ezcreation

05-15-2010, 01:12 PM

Thanks Tom
Quick question: will you post the thread in the Dealer section or the Paintball Talk section?
This will be a hunt!

EDIT: re-reading the previous message from AGD it will be in THIS thread. Let s keep watching

ElPanda

05-16-2010, 07:04 PM

now Ill be watching this thread like every moment of every day :ninja:

mpsd

05-16-2010, 07:38 PM

Tom,

I know you said that an 80 psi input compressor should be the best thing as an input for the shoebox but can a small tire compressor capable of up to 300 psi also be used?

I've found this one for sell locally for a mere US$18.00:
http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x299/mpsd18/img.jpg

Please, let me know.

Thanks,

Mendel.

GRAYGHOST

05-16-2010, 08:09 PM

willing to put down 50% down payment :bounce:

BigEvil

05-16-2010, 08:51 PM

Hey Beemer, is anyone updating TK's Shoebox Facebook page with those pics?

AGD

05-16-2010, 09:49 PM

mpsd

05-16-2010, 09:55 PM

You need to tell me the specs on it to see if it will work. Most likely it will but if its very low output it will be running a lot.

AGD

What kind of specs you need? The seller only says it's output pressure and the fact that it fills an empty tire in 7 minutes (not a real spec, I know). If you can tell me what to ask, I'll forward the questions to the seller.

Or, instead, what are the ideal specs for the source compressor?

Thanks,

Mendel.

AGD

05-16-2010, 11:31 PM

You need to find out the cubic feet per minute that it will put out.

AGD

nerobro

05-17-2010, 12:08 AM

Squrkk

05-17-2010, 07:06 PM

If we get a first run QC Shoebox Compressor, after the evaluation period can we send the compressor back to be retrofitted with all the changes (if any) that are going to go into the mass production run? :)

Edit:
Or if it is simple enough, perhaps we can recieve a kit to swap out anything that is different? :rolleyes:

mpsd

05-17-2010, 07:10 PM

If we get a first run QC Shoebox Compressor, after the evaluation period can we send the compressor back to be retrofitted with all the changes (if any) that are going to go into the mass production run? :)

That happened with the Level 5 Mags, right? They were all (or almost all) retrofitted to Level 7.

mpsd

05-17-2010, 07:14 PM

Well, forget the CFM, think of the durability.

Those little pocket compressors have no shutoff, and will run 100%. They also have a lifetime measured in minutes, rather than hours, or preferably days.

I've owned a couple of them. Both died, just from filling car tires. Much less providing 100psi input for a pump.

They wouldn't be suitable. However, for $60-80 you can pick up a real compressor. I got a 10 gallon B&S for $90 at home depot. And that's not the cheapest you can do.

You are right about the durabillity. I haven't thought about it before. As for another compressor, I've found better ones for around $250, nothing in the $90 price range (I live in Brazil). Most of them are sold for painting purposes (with the painting pistol, you know?).

I'm talking about things like this:
http://produto.mercadolivre.com.br/MLB-140414622-compressor-de-ar-76-24-litros-2hp-chiaperini-mangueira-_JM

This one makes 243 liters per minute with up to 120 psi.

Thanks for the input, anyways. I'll take it into consideration.

Frizzle Fry

05-17-2010, 07:19 PM

I cannot wait to put my name on this list :cool:

maniacmechanic

05-17-2010, 07:25 PM

I cannot wait to put my name on this list :cool:

I'll 2nd that :)

ezcreation

05-17-2010, 07:53 PM

I actually would be curious to know how many of AOers are actually going to put the $$ down
Who wants to start a list?

joeyt

05-18-2010, 12:45 PM

tom, are you still planning on making 3000 psi compressors too? is the initial run all 4500 psi?

thanks

maniacmechanic

05-18-2010, 04:58 PM

I actually would be curious to know how many of AOers are actually going to put the $$ down
Who wants to start a list?

well you suggested it , you can put my name on it , i've had the cash hid away for this , for a while now

ezcreation

05-18-2010, 06:36 PM

Alright then. Just to make it clear: this is not the official pre-ordering for the shoebox but just a list to know roughly how many are interested in the first run with actual money in their hand.
Please reply copying previous names and adding yours.

1. Ezcreation
2. Maniamecanic