ASTM and 50Cal

[Beemer]

Intresting............

One thing to note is no 68cal ball today weighs 3.5G its more like 3.0 to 3.1G



"One important and unsung aspect of the entire discussion has been the role played by the ASTM and the many (several?) fine insurance companies that help make it possible for all of us to play."

"As things would have it, 68Caliber’s timing was just about perfect when we called and talked to Mike Lukas, Chairman of the ASTM Paintball Sub-Committee"


"The maximum weights for the new balls are as follows:

.43 2.3 grams

.50 2.6 grams

.55 2.9 grams

.62 3.2 grams

.68 3.5 grams"

More detail HERE (http://68caliber.com/?p=5677)

[BigEvil]

That should pretty much be the end of the big 50 Cal push. :D


***edit*** FIX YOUR QUOTE TAGS. Do I have to teach you how to post on the internet or what?? Ugh, AO isnt what it used to be LOL :rolleyes:


So, how come no one makes a ball that is 68 Caliber and 3.5 g? The heavier, the better, no?

[Ando]

That should pretty much be the end of the big 50 Cal push. :D


***edit*** FIX YOUR QUOTE TAGS. Do I have to teach you how to post on the internet or what?? Ugh, AO isnt what it used to be LOL :rolleyes:


So, how come no one makes a ball that is 68 Caliber and 3.5 g? The heavier, the more bloodier, no?
....FIXED :p

[xero28]

This is a quote from the linked article...


"The above [wight of the paintballs as posted by Beemer],. combined with the across the board velocity limit of 300 fps, means that the best ball to use for range and accuracy remains the 68 caliber.

I suspect that other calibers will rely on cost or the possibility of “hurting less” in order to sell themselves, but based on the ASTM standards that are being voted on now, there will not and can not be an approved ’super ball’ that has less wind resistance, better ballistics, better range and better accuracy by packing the weight of a 68 caliber ball into a smaller caliber shell. Someone may make one (doubtful – very doubtful) but it won’t fall under the accepted standards for use."

Long live .68 :shooting:

[Beemer]

So, how come no one makes a ball that is 68 Caliber and 3.5 g? The heavier, the better, no?

The heavier and Smaller the better. Its not 68 much anymore. Its smaller and lighter these days. Any guesses why.

How many fields allow 300FPS these days.

Over the years the paint has got lighter and smaller. The velocity has dropped to around 280FPS and the range has been shortened on Small fields.

[Gadget]

Nothing in that article changes the current situation.

The .50 paint from GI MilSim available today weighs 1.21g, well within the ASTM spec. According to MCB data .50 balls would only need to weigh 1.6g to perform as well as .68 paint weighing 3.0g at 300fps.

The ASTM limits have no impact on .50 cal at all (sadly!) unless .68 manufacturers start to increase the weight of their paint from the current 3.0 - 3.2g up to the max 3.5g.

[MANN]

The velocity has dropped to around 280FPS

Only to protect people from pressure spikes. Insurance dictates that you must be below 300(or at least it was ~4 years ago when I was shopping for field insurance). Inexperienced players with markers they know nothing of will create pressure spikes over 300 if you chrono at 300.

I dare to say that alot of Xvalve owners dont realize the velocity differences you can achieve with changing the amount of time between trigger pulls/releases.

If one chooses to use a consistent marker this is not a problem.

[punkncat]

Just out of curiousity. Aren't ASTM standards the same ones that the paintball industry has been ignoring all these years about BPS, etc.?

[Frizzle Fry]

Just out of curiousity. Aren't ASTM standards the same ones that the paintball industry has been ignoring all these years about BPS, etc.?

Well, their velocity standards, paintball weight standards and mask standards have all been pretty well enforced.

[Chronobreak]

Well, their velocity standards, paintball weight standards and mask standards have all been pretty well enforced.


i wouldnt go that far,

i would say most have been adheard to, but i dont think they are actively being enforced.

[maniacmechanic]

I dare to say that alot of Xvalve owners dont realize the velocity differences you can achieve with changing the amount of time between trigger pulls/releases.

Some of us do :D

[thejere]

Nothing in that article changes the current situation. The .50 paint from GI MilSim available today weighs 1.21g, well within the ASTM spec. According to MCB data .50 balls would only need to weigh 1.6g to perform as well as .68 paint weighing 3.0g at 300fps. The ASTM limits have no impact on .50 cal at all (sadly!) unless .68 manufacturers start to increase the weight of their paint from the current 3.0 - 3.2g up to the max 3.5g.

But can they develop a heavy enough fill? Consider, a .50 cal has about 40% the volume of a .68 cal and were are currently seeing 1.21g and 3 to 3.1g respectively for weight. Check the math and see that right now the .50's are being filled with the same paint. A fill nearly twice as heavy is needed to bring .50 to 2.6g ASTM limit.

I don't think .50cal will be adopted if it performs 'on par' with .68cal. Why invest in a whole new rig for the same end result?
.50cals biggest obstacles: Bouncing and marking. Will a heavier fill induce more breakage or is that a function of shell thickness? Will a heavier fill be more viscous because an elimination is still greater than a quarter.

[Frizzle Fry]

Uhhhhhh...


yes, at anything over 1.5 grams the .50 would be superior to .68.

I'm not quite sure what to think, though I do know that they have enough trouble breaking already and 1.1g

[Ando]

How would they make the fill heavier :confused:

Lead shot

[automagmasta]

How would they make the fill heavier :confused:

Lead shot
they could go back to the old clay-base fill like the old pro caps stuff. that is heavy, bloody, and staining. VERY staining. However, no one has any reason to think we are going to switch to .50 cal. at PB expo this year (as I have heard from the local field owner) Most if not all field owners rejected the idea of even having co-exitence between .50 cal and .68 cal. While .50 cal has higher profit rates, field owners just dont like the idea. And I hate to break it to GI milsim, but if the fields dont like it, it ain't taking off. And most if not all of the manufacturers have scrapped the .50 cal stuff IIRC.


And on a side note, CCM had the .50 cal idea produced and rejected long before GI milsim made a big deal about it.

[MANN]

Some of us do :D
:rofl: getting that extra distance when you need it. :p

[Beemer]

Only to protect people from pressure spikes. Insurance dictates that you must be below 300(or at least it was ~4 years ago when I was shopping for field insurance). Inexperienced players with markers they know nothing of will create pressure spikes over 300 if you chrono at 300.

I dare to say that alot of Xvalve owners dont realize the velocity differences you can achieve with changing the amount of time between trigger pulls/releases.

If one chooses to use a consistent marker this is not a problem.

Like I said a lower limit is posted at the field for a reason. Nice edit by the way.
Why does insurance dictate that? This Thread is about ASTM and 50cal or any cal. Insurance is a factor so its about that also. If you want to talk about consistant guns make your own Thread.

Following ASTM standards the Superball aint 50 cal. It would be .650 at 3.5G.
Why doesnt someone sell me that.

Designation: F 1979 – 09

3.3 Maximum Weight—The paintballs shall not weigh more
than 3.5G

3.5 Diameter of Paintball—The diameter of the paintball as
measured both polar and at the seam shall measure between
16.5 mm (0.650 in.) and 18 mm (0.709 in.).

[Beemer]

The various paintball calibers in the revised standard have existed on the fringes of the paintball market for as long as 24 years in some case. The intention of this standard revision was to simply bring them within the current standards scope in the simplest way possible. During that process of the weight factor was inadvertently reduced based on the diameter rather than the volume of the paintball which is not the best method. I feel based on my knowledge of the ASTM process that this would have vetted itself out during the regular ballot process, however based on the comments from you readers, as of last night that oversight has been corrected and new data has been put forward for the maximum weight for each caliber as follows:

43 caliber – 0.90 grams

50 caliber – 1.40 grams

55 caliber – 1.70 grams

62 caliber – 2.50 grams

68 caliber – 3.50 grams

http://68caliber.com/?p=5682

[rabidchihauhau]

Hey Beemer,

True stuff about the US - but they just accounced that folks in Germany can shoot the 50 cal at 300 fps, while 68caliber is limited to, I think, 240.

Don't be surprised if a rest of the world vs North American standard difference erupts out of this and folks are forced to accept one or the other's standards to make it the same around the world (a requisite for international competition): and guess which way that's going to go?

[Frizzle Fry]

True stuff about the US - but they just accounced that folks in Germany can shoot the 50 cal at 300 fps, while 68caliber is limited to, I think, 240.

Doesn't really matter about Germany; they're mandating that all markers and gas supplies have a non-adjustable regulation system to avoid tampering. The problem is that HPA tanks in most of Europe (Germany included) are illegal without an adjustable regulator. The alternative is c02, but a fixed regulation system wouldn't work because output pressure from a C02 tank isn't fixed and fluctuates in different environments. There's a zero-tolerance policy on velocity, so even a single foot per second spike in velocity can result in arrest, and with the number of raids and field-tests there've been on 100% compliant fields and games it seems that it will become an issue with new laws.

Germany is not a good example of any sort of norm in the world of paintball. Most of Europe is VERY different.

[kcombs9]

"Why invest in a whole new rig for the same end result? "

All the agg kids do this anyway when ever (insert paintball manufacture name) comes out with the next years model.

[CatoRockwell]

Screw the rest of the world, we haven't converted to metric, 50 cal won't be any different. :D

[Dirge]

One can hope.