View Full Version : Mini-Compressor FAQ's
Frequently Asked Questions:
Q: How much will it cost?
A: Currently the target price is 3-400 dollars retail but this could change.
Q: How fast will it fill a tank?
A: It will fill a 68 cubic inch tank in about 4 hours to 4500 psi.
Q: I hear it needs another compressor?
A: Yes, it needs an 85 psi input from a shop compressor for maximum fill rate. If you don’t use a shop compressor it will take 6 times longer to fill a tank.
Q: What shop compressor can I use?
A: Almost ANY shop compressor that puts out at least 85 psi at 1 CFM or more will work fine. The mini-compressor takes very little air and a shop compressor will only kick on a few times. Small shop compressors are so cheap it didn’t make sense to try and build one into the mini-compressor.
Q: How many CFM does the mini-compressor use when pumping?
A: It takes about 0.04 CFM which is nothing.
Q: Can I use a compressed air tank instead of a shop compressor?
A: Yes you can. Some thing like a portable air tank for filling tires should work but it needs to be big enough to maintain some type of pressure during the 4 hour fill time.
Q: Can I fill a scuba tank?
A: Yes but you have to provide a fill hose and attachment fittings. I estimate it will fill an 80 cubic foot scuba tank to 3000 psi in about 24 hours.
Q: Can I use a low pressure scuba with a regulated output to 85 psi to feed the mini-compressor?
A: Yes but we don’t recommend it because a high pressure regulator is more expensive than a small shop compressor that can be bought new for 80 bucks.
Q: How much noise does it make?
A: Not that much but its not completely silent. Its less noisy than your mothers sewing machine.
Q: Does it turn off by itself?
A: Yes but the pressure is preset at the factory. You have to buy either the 4500 or 3000 psi model.
Q: What else do I need to get to make it work?
A: To keep the cost down we only supply a stainless nipple output from the compressor. This is the same nipple you find on your paintball markers tank. You need to get a hose to connect what ever type of tank you have, scuba, paintball, pellet gun, to the compressor.
Q: What size is it?
A: Its about 16” wide, 12” deep and 6 ½ inches tall. The picture on Facebook shows a pencil for scale in front of the compressor.
Q: When will it be available?
A: We are making the pre-production prototypes now and hope to have the first run out within two months.
Q: Is there any water or particle filtration on the mini-compressor?
A: No there is not to keep costs down. You can put a water trap between the shop compressor and the mini-compressor if that’s a concern.
Q: How much electricity will it take?
A: It will cost less than 5 cents an hour to run the compressor.
This looks like a better unit than I had first thought. Really the only thing I was bummed about was the fact that it will be two compressors, one for 3000 psi and one for 4500 psi. This is the only thing in my mind that makes it not perfect. ;)
Question 1: What exactly tells a compressor to shut down at a certain pressure?
Question 2: Would it be difficult to add a switch between the two pressure settings so you only have to sell one unit to cover both requirements?
I have 3K tanks, 4.5K tanks, and several SCUBA tanks..
Storminnorman
01-26-2010, 03:34 PM
I had a talk with the gf and made her see the savings with this compressor. I'm defiantly down to test one of these and purchase when they come out. I went out today and got a 20 gallon 1.8 horse compressor so all I need is the unit. I have two scuba tanks and 4 carbon fiber.
Storminnorman
01-26-2010, 03:39 PM
Let me know how to get on the list to test the first 100 If there is a list.
CatoRockwell
01-26-2010, 03:47 PM
Tom, I have both 4500 & 3000 tanks can I manually change the factory setting so that I can fill both?
It's possible to change parts and change it to 3000 or 4500 but its a huge liability factor for me. You can imagine someone hooking up an underrated tank to the 4500 setup and bad things can happen. So that's the way I have to sell them.
AGD
Put me down on the list for one too.
"It's quieter than your mother's sewing machine."
A beautiful metaphor! Lets me know exactly how loud that is. (Lets me also know how many rooms away I could expect to hear it.) I just love this metaphor.
It's possible to change parts and change it to 3000 or 4500 but its a huge liability factor for me. You can imagine someone hooking up an underrated tank to the 4500 setup and bad things can happen. So that's the way I have to sell them.
AGD
But then what about some guy that buys the 4.5K and decides to fill a 3K tank thinking he will shut it down at 3K and then forgets?
Hummm, makes me wonder why when the 45's came out the industry didn't go to a diffrent size fill nipple for saftey???
But then what about some guy that buys the 4.5K and decides to fill a 3K tank thinking he will shut it down at 3K and then forgets?
That's when burst disks come into play :p
xero28
01-26-2010, 05:08 PM
Tom, I'm not sure if this was brought up in one of the other threads, but in the hoses that are hooked up from "the unit" (my .02 at a name for it ;) ) to the tank, what are the pressures in those hoses? Would it be something we'd be able to do with just some standard steel braided hose, or will the pressure get up to 3k or 4.5k and we'd have to get something heavier? I'm assuming it's the former, but you know what happens when we ***-u-me. :rolleyes:
By the way, if you need testers, I'm all for it. Got a bunch of tanks and a couple of scubas as well. Here's hoping :cool:
shives007
01-26-2010, 05:31 PM
It's possible to change parts and change it to 3000 or 4500 but its a huge liability factor for me. You can imagine someone hooking up an underrated tank to the 4500 setup and bad things can happen. So that's the way I have to sell them.
AGD
For me, even though I do have 45 tanks, this is going to be mostly for having air to mess around the house with. I can live with getting a short fill on the 45 for that. I'd rather short fill and be safe then have to worry about filling the 3's. Just my thoughts.
Shvies
Originally Posted by AGD
It's possible to change parts and change it to 3000 or 4500 but its a huge liability factor for me. You can imagine someone hooking up an underrated tank to the 4500 setup and bad things can happen. So that's the way I have to sell them.
AGD
That's when burst disks come into play :p
;)
Spider-TW
01-26-2010, 07:54 PM
Frequently Asked Questions:
Q: I hear it needs another compressor?
A: Yes, it needs an 85 psi input from a shop compressor for maximum fill rate. If you don’t use a shop compressor it will take 6 times longer to fill a tank.
So, it won't mind running for 24 hours straight (or more) to fill a tank if we are willing to let it?
bob87
01-26-2010, 09:36 PM
Whats the power consumption of the compressor?
What's the CFM of the shop compressor?
AGDlover
01-26-2010, 10:30 PM
That's when burst disks come into play :p
Ya but, who hasn’t seen a 5k burst disk on a 3000psi tank?
Unless there were an inline burst disk somewhere before the tank....
What about a model that fills to 4500 with some type of manual/digital/ect. Way of putting a limit to 3k or 4.5k... I know it’s a little late but the fact is there is an issue will someone using a 4.5 to fill a 3000psi tank... its inevitable, it will happen. The question then in lies where will you place the blame... The person who uses the product wrong or the product itself for a lack of safety filling compressed air tanks? I'm not trying to put this product off, I love the fact that we can all fill our tanks from home in a timely mater; I would just hate to see it go down in flames because of a minor misconception of the product. Tom you’re a brilliant mind with great products I can’t wait to get one of my own,
You only need more than 1 CFM shop compressor. The mini-compressor uses 0.04 CFM
Electricity for the compressor will cost less than 5 cents an hour when running.
AGD
TeaQue
01-26-2010, 11:34 PM
I just became a fan of AGD on facebook to see a picture of this compressor and I don't see one, whats the deal? :p
Tom, I'm not sure if this was brought up in one of the other threads, but in the hoses that are hooked up from "the unit" (my .02 at a name for it ;) ) to the tank, what are the pressures in those hoses? Would it be something we'd be able to do with just some standard steel braided hose, or will the pressure get up to 3k or 4.5k and we'd have to get something heavier? I'm assuming it's the former, but you know what happens when we ***-u-me. :rolleyes:
By the way, if you need testers, I'm all for it. Got a bunch of tanks and a couple of scubas as well. Here's hoping :cool:
The pressure coming from the unit to the tank will be what ever is registering on the output gauge or your tank gauge.
I wouldn't worry about the line failing. At a minimum, ss braided line is rated at 3000PSI working and 12,000 PSI burst pressure (burst pressure is 4-6 times working pressure or whatever the manufacture deems fit). So you could run the line at 6k without worrying about it failing. There's a formula to get the exact work and burst pressure of a line. I don't remember it but manufactures always tend to favor the extreme low end on lines.
Every company does it right down to the military.
For example: The safe minimum limits the military uses for our engines are 30% lower then what the manufacture rated them at. It's all about wear and tear of the equipment, the longer they can keep it in service the better.
Ya but, who hasn’t seen a 5k burst disk on a 3000psi tank?
Unless there were an inline burst disk somewhere before the tank....
What about a model that fills to 4500 with some type of manual/digital/ect. Way of putting a limit to 3k or 4.5k... I know it’s a little late but the fact is there is an issue will someone using a 4.5 to fill a 3000psi tank... its inevitable, it will happen. The question then in lies where will you place the blame... The person who uses the product wrong or the product itself for a lack of safety filling compressed air tanks? I'm not trying to put this product off, I love the fact that we can all fill our tanks from home in a timely mater; I would just hate to see it go down in flames because of a minor misconception of the product. Tom you’re a brilliant mind with great products I can’t wait to get one of my own,
Natural selection is a *.*.*.*.*
http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/9306/cunningplan.jpg
I'm joking but seriously, trying to baby proof this thing isn't possible. There needs to be a line drawn somewhere. When they hydro 3k tanks, they take them up to 5.5k so the burst disk is going to blow way before that. I'm 100% sure Mr. Kaye is going to place a huge "Must be 18" sign with tons of warnings and what not before it's all said and done.
You should have a hose from the compressor to your tank that is rated for the pressure of the air compressor. I can't sell you a 3000 psi braided line on a 4500 psi compressor. Get it?
Your looking for the mini-compressor page on Facebook. There is a link to it on Tom Kaye.
AGD
CatoRockwell
01-27-2010, 02:00 AM
It's possible to change parts and change it to 3000 or 4500 but its a huge liability factor for me. You can imagine someone hooking up an underrated tank to the 4500 setup and bad things can happen. So that's the way I have to sell them.
AGD
I understand, but doesn't the liability still exist if I use the 4500 filler to fill my 3000?
I would be willing to pay extra for one that has a selector switch 3000 or 4500. Also willing to sign a legal waiver that says "If I'm a dumb *** like our ATF friend above, then I am the only liable person"
Thanks for all your hard work :cheers:
Oregon_pb_
01-27-2010, 02:08 AM
Whats the expected lifespan/maintenance of the unit?
Sounds like a great unit
I looked into a selectable pressure switch. It was 80 bucks before you added relays etc and that put it out of the price range people said was acceptable.
If someone uses a 4500 compressor on a 3k bottle that is their mistake not mine. As long as my compressor does what it was built to do I am fine.
I don't know what the maintenance requirements are besides oil. It will need eventual rebuilding depending on the hours.
AGD
I have 6 scuba tanks here, and cannot wait to not have to go to the scuba shop to fill them.
I don't know what the maintenance requirements are besides oil.
AGD
Reason why he's doing a small controlled test run with us. We'll be testing the balls off this thing no doubt. :D
As for the 3 to 4.5k selector switch. I'd pay the extra for it. Just another option you can add for the system.
And then later down the road you could make a add-on box for the scuba community which has filters and a water trap system built in. Make it a plug and play kind of operation where the output hose on the system connects to a input side on the scuba box and you have an output hose on the scuba box that connects to your tank. Make it easily rebuild-able and you can make some bank off that as well. I know for a fact people in remote areas (like colleges and biologist who send people to these areas) will be buying these things no doubt. Especially if it's capable of filling a scuba tank in around 24hrs.
When I was stationed in Panama. The diving in the country is basically in remote areas and there would always be students from all over the world studding the corral reefs, fish ect..ect... and the biggest b**** from them was having to travel 2hrs back and forth just to get their tanks filled.
I am definitely considering the remote scuba fill issue. Its possible to run the compressor without any oil at ALL to fill a scuba tank which should give you nice clean air. Might need a water trap but that's easier.
AGD
Swamp Thing
01-27-2010, 11:24 AM
Any chance you will offer a option to order Fill hose for Tank and a fill hose for SCUBA for an additional cost. I would rater pay you and know I have it right that do my standard trial and error to get to where I need to be.
Swamp
Yes I am looking into offering a hose setup separately.
AGD
I looked into a selectable pressure switch. It was 80 bucks before you added relays etc and that put it out of the price range people said was acceptable.
AGD
Would you be willing to develop it and offer it as an up grade?
I was wondering if you were working with anyone on this or if you did it all yourself? Did you do the CAD work? :shooting:
steve_81
01-27-2010, 03:08 PM
I wish people would stop bugging Tom about developing one compressor that does both 3000 and 4500 psi. The guy has already gave his reasons why there isn't going to be. These units are already going to be cheap enough to just go ahead and purchase both of them.
ezcreation
01-27-2010, 03:16 PM
I wish people would stop bugging Tom about developing one compressor that does both 3000 and 4500 psi. The guy has already gave his reasons why there isn't going to be. These units are already going to be cheap enough to just go ahead and purchase both of them.
I understand the point. But I also understand the upgrade component of the product. It s always good to see potential for development.
I wish people would stop bugging Tom about developing one compressor that does both 3000 and 4500 psi. The guy has already gave his reasons why there isn't going to be. These units are already going to be cheap enough to just go ahead and purchase both of them.
It’s obvious to me that you have not been around here long enough to know that Tom does look to AO for input. I'm pretty sure that is why he purchased the forum. I'll back off when HE asks me to.
I wonder if we could design a 3k check valve. That would allow you to have a 4500 psi compressor, and if you install it on a 3k check valve then it would stop air flow. Thus giving the effect of a full tank, and would therefore shut off the compressor.
Just thinking out loud....
xero28
01-27-2010, 05:36 PM
I wonder if we could design a 3k check valve. That would allow you to have a 4500 psi compressor, and if you install it on a 3k check valve then it would stop air flow. Thus giving the effect of a full tank, and would therefore shut off the compressor.
Just thinking out loud....
I like that thinking. I'd want to get a 4500 unit, but I would also want to fill 3k scuba tanks with it.
Tom: Is the fill time going to remain consistent throughout the life of the unit? I mean, if it fills to 4500 psi in 4 hours the first time, can we expect it to fill in 4 hours each time? I ask because theoretically we could just figure out how long it takes to fill up a 68/3k on the 4500 system (or a 3k scuba for that matter) and set a timer/alarm to let us know when it's ready and shut it down manually. I'm not sure if you'd condone this since it could obviously present problems if someone regularly forgets to shut it off.
Like Mann, just thinking out loud. ;)
I am curious about the expected life of the unit before rebuild or replacement. Might be a bit early yet for longevity testing...
Watcher
01-27-2010, 09:01 PM
I can't find any of the facebook stuff...
Beemer
01-27-2010, 09:10 PM
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000599028258
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000599028258#/pages/Miniature-Compressor-for-Paintball/216287806129?ref=mf
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steve_81
01-27-2010, 09:17 PM
didn't mean to offend. Just going from the others point of view; it could/can get annoying answering and explaining the same things over and over again.
I could design one that does 3k and 4500 but it would be at least a couple hundred bucks more and then you could just buy a second one for about a hundred bucks more. See the problem? The other issues are things like the burst disk for 4500 vs 3000, they are way different pressures. You could feed the 4500 compressor into a 3k regulator but those regs are more than a couple hundred also.
The compressor feeds linearly so you could put a timer on it and have it stop short.
I estimate you will get at least 1000 hours out of the orings but I have not tested it yet.
AGD
Beemer
01-28-2010, 12:04 AM
Thats 41.5 running days. Thats 250 fills at 4hrs. :D How hard can it be to change out some rings? Send it to me I will break it for you. :D
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paintball72
01-28-2010, 12:37 AM
I can't wait for this. I also can't decide if I want to go for 4500 or 3000. All of my tanks are 45's but ive also got a couple scuba's. I'm kindof hoping tom will make it easy and have the first 100 be one type for testing.
classicmagplayer
01-28-2010, 02:31 AM
What about integrating the burst disc and pressure switch into the whip after the quick release connection?
Sell the compressor with the end users choice of fill pressure whip, but also sell 4.5k and 3k fill whips as accessories.
Switching between pressure would be as easy as releasing a quick disconnect and a single wire harness clip.
The compressor would have to be wired so that if no switch is connected, the comp wouldn't run.
It wouldnt increase hardware costs of the basic compressor(besides the addition of the whip, but that is a mandatory purchase to fill anyway), but also allow for quick and easy change between the two pressures for those who want that option.
The only problem I foresee is a QD is free to rotate, which could be a problem for the wiring harness, but that could be solved pretty easily.
Could we get a link to the picture of the compressor in the FAQ please?
Facebook page with pics
http://tinyurl.com/ybyuxxm
steve_81
01-28-2010, 08:19 AM
I'm for sure looking forward to when this product is released and snatching up several of them right away. I haven't been able to get ahold of my local shop for a few days now and their answering machine is full :confused: Once they are gone i'm out of luck and won't be able to play anymore.
The compressor feeds linearly so you could put a timer on it and have it stop short.
AGD
Ha-Ha! See it never hurts to ask questions. :)
Here is a $16 solution>>>>
http://cdn.overstock.com/images/products/P11578451.jpg
Another question, how much heat to the bottle do you anticipate during filling? (If any)
With the filling taking place so slow, I would guess it's little to none.
xero28
01-28-2010, 12:04 PM
Ha-Ha! See it never hurts to ask questions. :)
Here is a $16 solution>>>>
http://cdn.overstock.com/images/products/P11578451.jpg
BOO-YEAH! I knew there's a way. That should eliminate the "oh crap, I left the 4500 psi compressor on my 3k tank...again" phrases. So, do you just plug the unit into the timer and "set it and forget it"? ;) Now we just have to figure out how long it takes to fill to 3000 psi.
So, if it takes (theoretically) 4 hours to fill to 4.5k, then it would take 2.6 hours to fill to 3000 psi? Does that sound right?
A couple of questions about this then. Is the 4 hours based on a completely empty tank? So if there is already 2250 psi in the tank, would it only take 2 hours to fill? So if we were to fill a 3k tank and wanted to use the timer at 2.6 hours, we should completely empty the tank?
:cheers:
Well you really can not just forget it because these timers are set up to turn on at the same time everyday. But it works for me. :)
There may be other times out there more suited for this, that picture was found in a 10 second search. ;)
BreakawayPaintball
01-28-2010, 02:30 PM
Yes I am looking into offering a hose setup separately.
AGD
Tom - I have a lot of 4500 psi hoses. They are coiled and have 1/8" npt male ends. They might be too long as they are about 42". Let me know if you are interested and I will send you a sample.
Mark
Mark,
If they are rated for 4500 psi then yes I am interested. Send pics first.
thanks
Tom
BreakawayPaintball
01-29-2010, 05:36 PM
Mark,
If they are rated for 4500 psi then yes I am interested. Send pics first.
thanks
Tom
I emailed some pictures to the email on your website.
Mark
boarder2k7
01-31-2010, 12:57 AM
Well you really can not just forget it because these timers are set up to turn on at the same time everyday. But it works for me. :)
There may be other times out there more suited for this, that picture was found in a 10 second search. ;)
They turn on at the same time only if you put the "on" key into them, otherwise they are manual switch on, and timed off!
-B
I am completely aware of how they work; I have about 4 of those timers myself. I use them to turn on lights on and off in my house while I’m on vacation so it looks like someone is home.
Yes, you do have to turn them on, but once they are turned on they stay “active” until you turn them off. (The ones I have anyway) They are set up on a 24 hour dial to turn on whatever you need turned on in a 24 hour time period, at the same time everyday.
So if you use this on you mini-compressor to run for 3 hours then shut off, you have 21 hours before it turns back on.
Beemer
02-16-2010, 10:50 AM
Q: Is Tom Kaye looking older?
A: Yes but he can still kick your ***!!
:spit_take
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Miniature-Compressor-for-Paintball/216287806129#!/pages/Miniature-Compressor-for-Paintball/216287806129?v=info
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y0da900
02-16-2010, 08:34 PM
Tom, question about the shop compressors for you. Is there the potential for the oil in an oiled compressor to aerosolize in the compressor at some point and deposit in the HPA tank, leading to explosion potential when filled at a future date. Should oil traps be considered for that style compressor, or not necessary?
Jonathan
punkncat
02-16-2010, 11:52 PM
Tom, question about the shop compressors for you. Is there the potential for the oil in an oiled compressor to aerosolize in the compressor at some point and deposit in the HPA tank, leading to explosion potential when filled at a future date. Should oil traps be considered for that style compressor, or not necessary?
Jonathan
This was the exact question I was about to ask.
PBChappy
02-17-2010, 08:35 AM
3k fills would be great for me as i'm filling my 4.5k tanks off my 3k scubas so being able to fill a scuba in 24 hours would be great as i would not have to drive all over to get it filled
Is there the potential for the oil in an oiled compressor to aerosolize in the compressor at some point and deposit in the HPA tank, leading to explosion potential when filled at a future date. Should oil traps be considered for that style compressor, or not necessary?
That is a good question. I don't know how much oil is vaporized in a typical compressor but it can't be very much or you would be refilling it all the time. There are many cheap compressors these days that are oil-free so one of those would be a good choice.
AGD
DevilMan
02-17-2010, 11:19 AM
I am completely aware of how they work; I have about 4 of those timers myself. I use them to turn on lights on and off in my house while I’m on vacation so it looks like someone is home.
Yes, you do have to turn them on, but once they are turned on they stay “active” until you turn them off. (The ones I have anyway) They are set up on a 24 hour dial to turn on whatever you need turned on in a 24 hour time period, at the same time everyday.
So if you use this on you mini-compressor to run for 3 hours then shut off, you have 21 hours before it turns back on.
Luke, look again. There is a green key and a red key. They differ in where the tooth catches the cog as it rotates around. Say you plug it in and turn it to RUN, meaning you turn the dial until the green pin clicks the power ON. You set the red pin at your desired shut off time. You take the GREEN pin back out right then, and so it will shut off when it gets to RED, but never kick back on because there is no GREEN. You see?
PLUS if I'm not mistaken, you can take all the green keys out altogether and manually rotate the dial at the TOP of the box to the ON position. It will run until a RED key comes by. Some don't have that switch, but if you have the one pictured then that's your answer.
You would do all of this when you plugged it up to fill a tank. Leave it on for 30, 1, 2, however long, and it'll kick off and stay off.
DM
I have been putting probably way too much thought into running this thing when I get one.
I would like to be able to have an appropriately sized aluminum box constructed (I have a friend who owns a welding shop) to house the mini-compressor and my first stage air compressor. The box would be ventilated on both sides and have built into the sides, a frame that will hold furnace filters (I'll get the good ones that filter allergens and micronic doodads floating around). These filters would provide at least some measure of filtration of the air before hitting the compressors. The first stage 85 psi compressor I am looking at is relatively small but has a drain valve on the tank so any moisture can be drained between fills. Hopefully this would be enough to keep moisture at a minimum.
In addition, this aluminum box/housing idea would further quiet the setup and maybe, just maybe keep the wife happy!
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