Courtesy

[Advanced]

I'm getting really, really pissed with people on this and other forums. If you sell something, be honest about it's condition.

I mean that. I'm going to start launching paypal claims against people from now on.

I purchased a minimag on here last week. The gun had a bolt problem. Fine, it needed an oring is all. However, not described was the ASA that had a haggard hole drilled in the back side of it being cleverly covered by the trigger guard. The pin hole on the side leaks like crazy.

The safety of the grip frame was mauled by I don't know what. If stuck out so much that the rail could not be tightened to the body and frame. Couldn't tighten it either, had to remove it becuase the set screw was so jacked up. Then the rail itself inside was fubar. Finally I noticed the grip panels. They were friggin' drilled out and had little scrap edges of plastic sticking out, and can not be tightened, they flop around.



I accurately describe my items. I had to put my foot in my mouth a week or two ago, I sold a classic RT and swore it was leak free, upon arrival it leaked a little but I think the buyer fixed it. I didn't say, "I didn't realize it was like that, whatever." I offered the best advice I could on what to do.

I'm tired of being shafted. You're an :cuss: if you sell something that you know is jacked up and don't tell the truth. I'm really pissed, and offering me a refund upon me rreturning your :cuss: up product makes me even more angry. You know who you are.

[Will Wood]

Sorry to hear it, but most of us have (probably) been there before. Big deal.
You win some, you lose some.

Try buying from respectable sources in the future.


From the way you described the situation the seller probably had to know the condition of the gear. Either you didn't ask for enough details, or they lied about it. You prevent the one out of your control (The latter) by buying from trusted sources ;)

[Ando]

That's not what he's getting at. All he's saying is be truthful and lay it all out on the table. Don't polish a turd and call it new when it's not.

[Bigwooly1013]

What is turd polishing is what you're best at?.... :ninja:

Sorry to hear about your bad experience.

This is why i take way way way way too many pictures of stuff i intend to sell on here.

[Will Wood]

That's not what he's getting at. All he's saying is be truthful and lay it all out on the table. Don't polish a turd and call it new when it's not.

I approve of venting. It's good. :mad: I'm not putting this thread down.


But you are delusional if you believe posting a thread about "Courtesy" is going to make someone to make their sale sound a lot better than it is. That's all :P I was just offering my advise to avoid getting burned in the future.

[Ruler_Mark]

http://www.abadss.com/photos/data/509/Complaint-Department.jpg


I'd file them paypal claims.

[Frizzle Fry]

Try buying from respectable sources in the future.

"Respectable Sources" can be worse than relative unknowns. I've had some very bad experiences here and on AOG with people considered to be the most respectable members of the site... High post count, lots of feedback, innovative custom work, those don't make a person send you the right item or describe it properly. People get bullied into leaving good feedback when you've got a small site with big fish and little fish, especially when certain members are friends with moderators (an AOG issue more than an AO issue).




Advanced:
If you got them from who I think you got them from, I'm not surprised they're destroyed (though I am surprised you got them). Did they come from Canada?

[CatoRockwell]

I'm sorry to hear that, I've had nothing but positive experiences in buying on this forum. Definitely file a complaint and post feedback on that person on this forum. They won't be selling here long if they don't make it right.

[BigDaddyJob]

Ive tried to get in the habit of posting pictures of any noteworthy flaws as well as a video of each gun minutes before it goes in the shipping box. Helps keep everyone involved happy and informed.

I know that I would really like to have a video of the gun Im receiving as added assurance or whatever. I just try to do everything that I would want back to me and its worked out so far.

It helps when I have ready access to a computer, flip video camera, and digital camera basically any minute I want though too.

Hopefully everything works out for you.

[punkncat]

I have noticed that behavior becoming more prevelent everywhere the past year or so. I used to expect it on PBN, and have always felt pretty confident buying here and a few other places, using buyers with good feedback. But, I have been the victim of non-disclosure on more deals as of late than not.

I have, in the past, just written it up to "the way it goes", but have decided after this last time to go after the dirtbags and leave bad feedback everywhere I can find them.

[FutureMagOwner]

I've had this happen on 3 guns so far, the last one I went after the guy and made him split the cost of the replacement parts from AGD.

Just so you know paypal won't do anything because they don't get involved with the condition something arrives in (especially a sale like this) only if the person doesn't ship.

Whenever I sell a gun I will be honest to its condition, and when it comes time to ship I will give them marker specific advice. For example, this morning I'm going to be shipping out a cocker to southern California. So, I told the guy receiving it that he needs to reset both regulators, and relube the gun before he gets it because shipping it tends to throw off regs and dry up lube, and it is also going from freezing cold RI to CA so there is huge climate change. I always tell people to lube the gun up before they do anything with it because I always receive guns with small leaks or massive FSDO if applicable because the oil dries up or the grease gets all gummy.

[Lohman446]

I should not have to ask "are there any holes drilled in it". I understand some minor blemishes from play / use / travel but if it took a machine to do it you really should point it out rather than just not mentioning it. While I have not been perfect about things being in perfect condition I have also never represented. A little wear and tear is to be expected. Not leaving feedback accordingly in such circumstances is doing the entire community a disservice.

[BigEvil]

I agree, this is becoming more and more frequent. You hear mumblings, but for the most part peoples gripes are not taken up with the seller. You also rarely see negative feedback, if if someone 'dares' leave any then its like WW3. Then the next buyer gets suckered by the guy as well.

For the most part, and im sad to say it, people would rather just sell off an item they are unhappy with rather than cause trouble.

I know of at least a few doosies that are very recent which you guys wouldnt believe. FUBAR'd things on major purchases that needed to be sent out for repairs and cost the buyers a bunch of additional money. I really don't know how people can sell items like that and not have the courtesy to accurately state the description.

I guess the feedback system only works when its used properly.

[jrod]

All I can say is buyer beware. I've never been burned here, but I've had my share at other places. But, with the prevalence of cheap digital cameras, there should be no reason not to demand pictures and video (if applicable). On the seller's side, I think it's easier to sell when you post lots of clear pictures and a video.

[CatoRockwell]

Well I hope everyone reports honest feedback, because that is how I determine who and who not to buy from.

[leloup]

Problem is that feed back doesn't always mean anything. Example: I just purchased a warp feed (on MCB) that had "a small crack in the shell that does not effect performance." When I got it, the "crack" was actually chipped off (some one had tightened it too much and it broke from the nut up). It even had the glue residue of who ever tried to fix it. He would not respond to pm's and emails, so I filed a claim through paypal to get his attention. The seller called me a liar. He said he had "five witnesses" that could attest that the warp was in perfect working condition. He finally refunded me $25, but would not take the warp back for a full refund. Tired of dealing with it, I accepted it. Now the kicker: He said that if I posted what happened in his feedback, he would ruin my feedback. What can I do? Any one know a mod on MCB?

[BenoitOWN]

Problem is that feed back doesn't always mean anything. Example: I just purchased a warp feed (on MCB) that had "a small crack in the shell that does not effect performance." When I got it, the "crack" was actually chipped off (some one had tightened it too much and it broke from the nut up). It even had the glue residue of who ever tried to fix it. He would not respond to pm's and emails, so I filed a claim through paypal to get his attention. The seller called me a liar. He said he had "five witnesses" that could attest that the warp was in perfect working condition. He finally refunded me $25, but would not take the warp back for a full refund. Tired of dealing with it, I accepted it. Now the kicker: He said that if I posted what happened in his feedback, he would ruin my feedback. What can I do? Any one know a mod on MCB?

If that was in Pm well shows Painthappy ... hes the main boss(and owner) ...


jrod: I doesnt own a camera ... I borrow one when I can but for now and untill around june I would not never spend for one dedicated for paintball. Of course I do plan to get one for a trip im planning but it not because it cost lower money than everyone need a camera.

And while I can supply picture I never needed to take a video as my air tank are always empty so it quite pointless.

[SCpoloRicker]

Hai guize!

Anyone want to buy a LNIB DevilMag?

[Lohman446]

Hai guize!

Anyone want to buy a LNIB DevilMag?

LOL - sure, let me send you $1500 or so. You'll ship that whenever right?

[leloup]

LOL - sure, let me send you $1500 or so. You'll ship that whenever right?

Just make sure it is cash, he doesn't take paypal.

[Smokeage]

Just so you know paypal won't do anything because they don't get involved with the condition something arrives in (especially a sale like this) only if the person doesn't ship.

Wrong. Ive dealt with paypal claims a few times and I can assure you that if something does not arrive in "described condition" you (and by extension paypal) can do something about it. Selling something that is not as described is just as bad as not sending it out at all.

File the claim. Put all of the messages sent both way in the report as well as pics of what you got.


And just in case im wrong.....anybody want to buy my Shocker? I swear it works. :rofl:

[FutureMagOwner]

I don't know from personal experience, I'm not a fan of paypal and avoid it at all costs. But that is what I've seen from a few people that have posted about paypal disputes. I guess it depends on the situation, if you have the person describe the thing down to every oring, and that turns out to be false then they may rule that it product described was not what was shipped, but if it is sold as is and not a lot of questions were asked then you are probably up **** creek.

[maniacmechanic]

I've never been duped here , Before I buy I want pics of all 4 sides , top , bottom , If it is High dollar part or marker , you should list every ding & scratch on it ( unless it is excessively cheep , like 10 cents on the dollar )
There are a bunch of guys on here I love dealing with because you know exactly what your getting
My problem lately has been packing , some folks have fogotten how to wrap something to where it won't slide to & fro in the box & tear the end out of it , I pack stuff like i'm shipping eggs

[Watcher]

Been there before. I bought a Lapco GreyGhost on Ebay that was advertised "This is not a pre-order run; buy today, play tomorow!" It also had a satisfaction guarrenty of a full refund.

I asked him a question, buyer responded. It was pictured on a pegboard, so I wanted to be sure it was BNIB. He says they removed it and displayed it to take the picture, that is all.
So I bought it. Waited... waited... nothing.
Sent a message, nothing, sent a message, nothing.
Opened a dispute. Got a message. It roughly read "We don't currently have this item, we are waiting for it to be shipped to our warehouse where we can then ship it to you. As a consolation, we can offer you a free lazer engrave job." It also mentioned that they contacted me outside of Ebay, at my email address. That was a lie.

I said that I appreciate the offer, but your ad said that you had these in stock. I can wait a week or two, I can't wait a month. I also expressed my concern at the lack of communication.
No response...
Sent another message saying thanks but no thanks on the engrave, I just want the Ghost.
No response...

By now it had been just over a month.
I then got sick of it, and said bluntly that I ran out of patience, and that if you were willing to add to the package then you'd be willing to subtract. I told him I expected the cost of the lazer job to be refunded to me, or for him to negotiate a further deal.
No response...
So I sent a final message saying that I was not satisfied, and by his ad he guaranteed a refund. I wanted that refund. I'd been more than patient, I'd been more than polite until I was ignored, and that I don't appreciate the way he is treating a paying customer. I gave him money in exchange for goods, the least he could do is type a message to me.

And I opened a claim.
No response...
2 weeks later I was awarded a refund. Paypal claimed he never responded to their messages.

And he had a 99% positive rating :mad:


Then what happens? I find one on a forum. Send a message, a day later I get a response. A week later I get a Ghost :cheers:

[Frizzle Fry]

And he had a 99% positive rating :mad:

That feedback thing has turned into racket with the newest update. It's designed to make you keep buying/selling.

I've got 175+ "good" feedbacks and only 1 bad (from an idiot, too), but currently I've only got a 97% feedback rating. The reason is, I've only sold and bought 50-some-odd items in the last year and they take the average of the last 12 months. So just one idiot ruins my feedback score because I haven't been a good enough consumer, but some company like I&I Sports can have a track record of 85% positive but because they sell in high volume and occasionally manage a 1 or 2 month streak of "good" transactions their feedback shows up as 98%.

Use toolhaus.org before buying, it's the only REAL feedback system.

[busby]

it all boiles down to honesty,which is sometimes the exception,not the rule. :D

[paintmann111]

I'm the one who bought the RT, I am still trying to fix the leak. The gun is in amazing condition and I am happy with it. Its just irritating because the leak won't go away, even with all new orings, but its probably something I did, because its leaking from a different place than before. LOL

[Whee McGee]

I'm the one who bought the RT, I am still trying to fix the leak. The gun is in amazing condition and I am happy with it. Its just irritating because the leak won't go away, even with all new orings, but its probably something I did, because its leaking from a different place than before. LOL
Give the orings time to settle. They must be worn in, and your leak should eventually go away as they settle.