30 Shots from a classic valve w/ a 12G

[flyingpootang]

I wanted to see what was the max efficiency I could get for a classic valve on a 12 gram. My set up is a standard classic AIR valve ser# CF07798, L7 bolt, (8) 3/8" ID nylon washers, Crossman 12g, RT on/off .750 pin, CCI 12b quick changer, macro line, and a piece of weed wacker string to de-volumize the macro line. Shots where 5-8seconds apart. I didn't have a chrono, but instead relied on the old "put 4 fingers in front of the barrel about 2" from the front technique. By the force felt on my finger I could tell my pumpmag was firing at or above 285 fps. Scientific? not by a long shot, but most of you reading this and comprehending what I'm saying have also used this refined technique in the past. The total shot count where 30 usable and 3 flea farts. I hope to do a vid over the chrono with Zman in the near future to get exact fps and usable shots. Also note I was unable to get the same velocity with HP air, but by subtracting washers you can reach a medium between co2 and hp. The downside sill be less of a shot count from a 12g of course. I plan on playing strickly SC so I'll stick with the 8 washers. I could probably ad 1 maybe 2 additional washers and get a few more shots, but I decided not to since I'd rather have a wider velocity range in case of cold weather.

http://i537.photobucket.com/albums/ff333/flyingpootang/PICT4730.jpg
http://i537.photobucket.com/albums/ff333/flyingpootang/PICT4731.jpg

[Ando]

Hey bro good work and nice setup.

Can you do us a favor and put the valve in a none pump setup with the shims in the PT and see how fast you can get it going before you get shoot down. Average for a classic is 13 bps give or take. I'd like to see if what I read 2 yrs ago about de-vol'ing the PT area is actually truthful. If shoot down does gets worse when you de-vol the valve.

The theory/explanation given sounded solid but you know how that goes. :rolleyes:

[Smoothice]

so you have a threaded powertube? Lucky...

Do all AIR valves have a threaded powertube?

I've been meaning to pack my classic valve full of something (since it is not threaded) but haven't had the time.

If you do another test I would like to know your shot count at around 1 ball per second.

Good job! :hail:

[TwilightG]

what is the average number of shots from a 12g w/o the washers?

[Smoothice]

what is the average number of shots from a 12g w/o the washers?

I get about 12. But my setup is horrid at the moment.

[fierymartel]

I just want to know what you used to unscrew that thing, man they are tight. I tryed with a rubber strap wrench. no way am I putting that in a vise! Maybe I'll run it under hot water.

[jolt00]

wow thats sweet. i may have to look into doing that myself.

[flyingpootang]

so you have a threaded powertube? Lucky...

Do all AIR valves have a threaded powertube?

I've been meaning to pack my classic valve full of something (since it is not threaded) but haven't had the time.

If you do another test I would like to know your shot count at around 1 ball per second.

Good job! :hail:
I'd probably freeze by the 4~5 shot on a 12g. As far as I know all AIR where threaded and then either loctited, lasered, or a combo of both, but I think Tuna or TK would know best.


Hey bro good work and nice setup.

Can you do us a favor and put the valve in a none pump setup with the shims in the PT and see how fast you can get it going before you get shoot down. Average for a classic is 13 bps give or take. I'd like to see if what I read 2 yrs ago about de-vol'ing the PT area is actually truthful. If shoot down does gets worse when you de-vol the valve.

The theory/explanation given sounded solid but you know how that goes. :rolleyes:
I'll throw it on my Xmag that is Xmoded, set on FA at 15 bps to see what kind of results I get..

[Ando]

You need to find yourself a pre classic valve. Lvl 5 area valve.

I don't know when the numbers started/ended for that specific valve tho :(

I'd like to get one myself. I need to recheck mine again.

[flyingpootang]

I just want to know what you used to unscrew that thing, man they are tight. I tryed with a rubber strap wrench. no way am I putting that in a vise! Maybe I'll run it under hot water.
IIRC all AIR and Classic valves are threaded, then loctited, then laser welded, or spot welded together. I was luck because 1 out of the 4 AIR valves was spot welded and loctited. To identify if it was spot welded is to take a magnified glass and look between the power tube and front valve body. If the weld is solid all the way around your out of luck. Mine only had the spot weld which was approx 1/4" in length. I used a fine tooth hack saw blade to cut through the weld, then used a torch to slowly/carefully heat up the threaded area until the loctite started to smoke (kinda a sweet smell). I know all X-valves have there power tubes are loctited together so it may be an alternative although more expensive...

http://i537.photobucket.com/albums/ff333/flyingpootang/StillCap0012.jpg
http://i537.photobucket.com/albums/ff333/flyingpootang/StillCap0014.jpg

[Smoothice]

Guess I have a couple valves to put under the microscope.

I've had a few emag valves that were only loctited. Cheaper than an x at least.

[flyingpootang]

Guess I have a couple valves to put under the microscope.

I've had a few emag valves that were only loctited. Cheaper than an x at least.
Yup I've had RT and RT classics as well. Seems to be more common than all the classics I ran across...

[BigEvil]

Good job and nice write up FPT. I like the weed wacker line in the macro :D Where did you get those nylon washers? This is basically what RRFireblade was doing to Xvalves a while back. Rudz has one with a devolumized powertube he did.

[flyingpootang]

Washers came from Home Depot. The OD is a little big, so I stacked them on a bolt with a nut and sanded/filed them to the proper size....

[wetwrks]

I used to regularly get about 27 shots from a 12gram and classic valve. This was back before you were allowed to use a tank at the local fields.

[KevinLG]

You might get even more if you sidelined the 12gram changer off the valve's input.

[Smoothice]

I used to regularly get about 27 shots from a 12gram and classic valve. This was back before you were allowed to use a tank at the local fields.

how did you accomplish this?

[Rudz]

I think some of the older classic valves had smaller dump chambers

I've done what kevin suggested

It helps to run a male to male fitting and connect an asa to the valves input and run the 12g changer side saddle

[flyingpootang]

I think some of the older classic valves had smaller dump chambers

I've done what kevin suggested

It helps to run a male to male fitting and connect an asa to the valves input and run the 12g changer side saddle
How many shots do you get on yours?

[flyingpootang]

how did you accomplish this?
Shooting it with the marker facing the ground and the barrel removed LOL....

[Smoothice]

So what exactly does your valve say on it?

Mine is a 68 Automag A.I.R Valve CF15539

[flyingpootang]

So what exactly does your valve say on it?
Mine is a 68 Automag A.I.R Valve CF15539
Mine says removable/threaded dump chamber style 68 AutoMag A.I.R. Valve serial number CF07798
Just kidding of course it's an AIR valve. The funny thing is there is no rhyme or reason on which valves are lasered all the way around. I have a few earlier numbered valves that are as well as a 2 later number valves which are are also laser welded all the way around.

http://i537.photobucket.com/albums/ff333/flyingpootang/StillCap0013.jpg

[Ando]

If you guys look at the classic mag maintenance video. The valve Tom is showing has a snap ring holding the PT in :rofl:

[snoopay700]

If you guys look at the classic mag maintenance video. The valve Tom is showing has a snap ring holding the PT in :rofl:
Never noticed that.

Anyway, my classic valve unfortunately is lasered all the way around, but the funny thing is my RT valve can unscrew (classic RT).

[flyingpootang]

You might get even more if you sidelined the 12gram changer off the valve's input. The CCI's unscrew after 4-8 shots on a mag and having it next to the valve makes it a pain to tighten.


If you guys look at the classic mag maintenance video. The valve Tom is showing has a snap ring holding the PT in :rofl: Those are on early early valves, L5 IIRC....


Never noticed that.
Anyway, my classic valve unfortunately is lasered all the way around, but the funny thing is my RT valve can unscrew (classic RT). Yup I had a lot that just unscrewed while trying disassembling the power tube tip...

[snoopay700]

Yup I had a lot that just unscrewed while trying disassembling the power tube tip...
That's exactly how i found out that my rt's power tube could unscrew. I still wish my classic did since i rarely use it and it's more of a loaner, but if i could make it a slower firing gun that got good efficiency...