New-ish Emag Problems

[chinstrap]

I recently acquired a set of Emag lowers to attach my mech Tac One to and I just got around to trying it out today. Things didn't work out so well.

I think what was going on was that the bolt was not resetting, as the sear rod wouldn't come back out of the trigger frame in both mech and electronic modes. It would shoot here and there, but eventually ended out with air dumping down the barrel and unable to reset.

I picked up an emag-length on/off pin and a quad o-ring anticipation and tried it out in my mech Tac One a while back and it seems to be behaving similarly, although the bolt didn't stay open dumping air down the barrel before.

Could it be that I should use my RT-length on/off pin with the lowers? Or could it be something else?

If I should use my RT on/off pin, should I still use the quad o-ring?

Also, I am using the RT on/off assembly that came in the X-valve when I originally bought my mechanical Tac One.

Any help will be extremely appreciated.

[kcombs9]

use the RT on/off assembly with the Emag pin.

check your bolt spring make sure its good. and try turning the velocity up

[athomas]

Is yours a valve that uses 1 oring or 2 orings above the on-off top? Make sure you have the correct oring configuration.

[chinstrap]

use the RT on/off assembly with the Emag pin.

check your bolt spring make sure its good. and try turning the velocity up

It was running fine with the Intelliframe/new Tac rail on it before I switched them all out with the lowers, so I'm pretty sure my velocity is sufficient and the spring is good. Maybe not.



Is yours a valve that uses 1 oring or 2 orings above the on-off top? Make sure you have the correct oring configuration.

It uses 2 O-rings. I currently have the one outer white one from the RT valve and an Emag quad O-ring inside that.


Perhaps I need higher input pressure? I'm running an 800 PSI Crossfire right now.

[kcombs9]

Perhaps I need higher input pressure? I'm running an 800 PSI Crossfire right now.

I run my emag on 800psi PE tank No problem.

[chinstrap]

I run my emag on 800psi PE tank No problem.

I didn't think that would have been the problem...

Well, I suppose I'll just crank up the velocity and try different springs in a bit. Hopefully it's just that.


Edit:

I can't remove the bolt/valve, nor can I get the bolt reset if this helps explain anything.

[fishmishin]

If you can't remove your valve then your on/off pin isn't being pushed all the way back in by the sear. Have you checked the voltage output of your battery? Also you may want to check the sear to make sure the plunger length is correct.

Here is the link to BlackVCG's sticky on the correct tolerances:
http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=67604

[fishmishin]

After going back and reading the OP it sounds like you need to check the sear rod length actuall y since it won't fire in mech either. While you have it out it won't hurt to check both though.

[chinstrap]

After going back and reading the OP it sounds like you need to check the sear rod length actuall y since it won't fire in mech either. While you have it out it won't hurt to check both though.

How do I check the battery voltage? I'm 99.999% ignorant when it comes to that kind of stuff. It did better in E-mode than it did in mech though.

Does the "credit card distance from trigger" still apply to the sear rod here as it does to mech mags?

What is best to use to measure these sear and plunger rod lengths? Or is there a good way to ballpark it?

And is the plunder rod the thing that's on the Emag sear but not on an RT sear? Or is it something else entirely?

[Ando]

First and foremost going from a standard mag to a E-Mag isn't as easy as just slapping some E-lowers on your rail/body and your done.

There's a few little things that need to be done/replaced/ck'ed before you'll have a reliable marker again.

We can talk you through it but it's going to be a lot of bla..bla..bla..and who know how many pages. If you want to make it easier on yourself. Send it to Tuna (AGD Tech) and he'll get it rocking for you or you can do it yourself and actually learn how everything works. Only thing is you'll need tools and be somewhat mechanically literate for all this to run smoothly.
The knowledge is here and we're all willing to help. It all comes down to what pill you want to take.
http://i49.tinypic.com/35d4viv.jpg

[chinstrap]

First and foremost going from a standard mag to a E-Mag isn't as easy as just slapping some E-lowers on your rail/body and your done.

There's a few little things that need to be done/replaced/ck'ed before you'll have a reliable marker again.

We can talk you through it but it's going to be a lot of bla..bla..bla..and who know how many pages. If you want to make it easier on yourself. Send it to Tuna (AGD Tech) and he'll get it rocking for you or you can do it yourself and actually learn how everything works. Only thing is you'll need tools and be somewhat mechanically literate for all this to run smoothly.
The knowledge is here and we're all willing to help. It all comes down to what pill you want to take.
http://i49.tinypic.com/35d4viv.jpg

Red pill, please.

Er...whichever pill learns me how to get my gun rolling.

While I am mechanically ignorant for the most part, I do pick things up fairly quickly.

[Ando]

Well your on the right track with the E-on/off pin and quad oring. Those are the most important things you need to replace in your valve assy when switching over to E-lowers.

1st thing you want to do is pull your battery pack and slap it on the charger. Your not going to need it right now, your going to want a good charged battery when we start troubleshooting the E-side of the marker.

We're going to get it running reliably in Mech-Mode first, then work our way to E-Mode.

Your going to need calipers to ck the length of your sear arm and plunger. From what you already posted. It looks like one or both might be out of tolerance. One thing you can try is turn your selector switch to M mode. That should allow you to manually push your on/off pin back into the on/off assy and free your valve.

Get your calipers out and measure the length of your sear arm. Should be set at around 2.125in. Since you already have the sear out. Ck your plunger, that should be set at around 3.005in. Last thing, make sure you actually have a e-on/off pin. Your pin should be at or about .712. Let us know when this is done. Shouldn't go any further till you make sure all those dimensions are correct. Don't get discouraged, this is the hardest part of tuning the the lowers in mech, the rest is easy mode. ;)

BTW. It would behove you to register here: http://www.niedtech.com/ and download the xmod manual. It's got some invaluable info, including troubleshooting of the marker in E-Mode and the proper way of measuring your sear arm and plunger

EDIT:
(If there's anything I left out or screwed up on guys, plz say something) :D

[chinstrap]

Well your on the right track with the E-on/off pin and quad oring. Those are the most important things you need to replace in your valve assy when switching over to E-lowers.

1st thing you want to do is pull your battery pack and slap it on the charger. Your not going to need it right now, your going to want a good charged battery when we start troubleshooting the E-side of the marker.

We're going to get it running reliably in Mech-Mode first, then work our way to E-Mode.

Your going to need calipers to ck the length of your sear arm and plunger. From what you already posted. It looks like one or both might be out of tolerance. One thing you can try is turn your selector switch to M mode. That should allow you to manually push your on/off pin back into the on/off assy and free your valve.

Get your calipers out and measure the length of your sear arm. Should be set at around 2.125in. Since you already have the sear out. Ck your plunger, that should be set at around 3.005in. Last thing, make sure you actually have a e-on/off pin. Your pin should be at or about .712. Let us know when this is done. Shouldn't go any further till you make sure all those dimensions are correct. Don't get discouraged, this is the hardest part of tuning the the lowers in mech, the rest is easy mode. ;)

BTW. It would behove you to register here: http://www.niedtech.com/ and download the xmod manual. It's got some invaluable info, including troubleshooting of the marker in E-Mode and the proper way of measuring your sear arm and plunger

EDIT:
(If there's anything I left out or screwed up on guys, plz say something) :D


Well, I just removed my body to get the valve out and the on/off pin was poking out.
I had to push it back in with my finger to get my valve out;I couldn't get it pushed back in in mech mode, so I am almost 100% sure that my rods are out of whack - the mechanical moreso than the electronic.

I am off to the store to get some calipers in a minute. Any particular kind you would recommend?

Oh, and I'm way ahead of you on downloading the Xmod manual.

[Ando]

I am off to the store to get some calipers in a minute. Any particular kind you would recommend?
Any digital calipers will do.

[chinstrap]

It has been brought to my attention that the prior owner was using a .728 on/off pin instead of a .712 on/off pin and it worked well according to him.

This further enforces the theory that the sear arm is out of factory specifications.

Would there be any possible damage or problems that that could arise from using a .728 on/off pin and having the sear assembly out of specifications?

[athomas]

The earlier emags used the 0.728" pins prior to the change over to quad orings. They work fine, even with the quad oring. I've been using the 0.728" pin and quad oring for 10 years.

The sear assembly being out of tolerance will cause the sear to not trip properly in electric operation. If the plunger is too long, it won't pull the sear far enough to properly clear the bolt and will cause wear. If the plunger is too short, it won't have enough power to consistently pull the sear in all conditions, but could work fine as long as the battery is full and everything is working good. Proper lengths make everything work good consistently.