PayPal Fees!?!?!?!?!

[Madmarx]

:cuss: Why is this SO Friggin' difficult for some people to understand!!???!?!?!? :mad:


Personal Transfer
Send money---or---Receive money

Free when the money comes from PayPal balance or bank account. ---This is what I always request---

2.9% + $0.30 USD
when the money comes from a debit or credit card or PayPal Credit---This is what I usually get---

(the sender decides who pays this fee).---We can discuss this---



I'll rant more later.

Mods.... if this needs to be moved please do or let me know. Thank you. :cheers:

[SSP REAPER]

As you already stated personal comes direct with full protection.

If you also request a personal payment owed you can avoid the fees :D
You have no buyer or seller protection that way unfortunately. That's the only downside to doing transactions that way.

[Madmarx]

My point is, as a seller, if you request a specific form of payment then the buyer should pay with that form or make other arrangements. The buyer shouldn't just send payment however they want. When the seller agrees to a price not including paypal fees, because there shouldn't be any and then gets $3 taken out on a $20 item before even shipping it's just ridiculous. It just seems like it's a simple thing that shouldn't be too difficult to grasp but obviously is for the majority of buyers.

[maineiacpballer]

I had an incident where I was the buyer and was told to do it as "payment owed-personal" because there would be no extra charges for the seller. I went to do it as a cc payment and saw that there where charges being brought up, but did not know the reason why. I looked at it closer and saw that it was because I was using a cc, I ate the fees myself because it was my choice to use a cc and not my bank account or money in pp itself.

My thought to you on this, you need to specify that you want them to do as, "payment owed-personal", only if they have money in pp or are doing a direct bank payment. If they are going to use a cc and do it that way than you are either going to have to eat it or work it into your price/negotiations.

[going_home]

Give it up Mark.
Just figure the fees in from now on.
All you are doing is making yourself mad because people dont know anything about
Paypal and the fees the seller pays.
Here lately I've come to the conclusion that its just not worth the hassle of packaging something up and going to the Post Office if I cant clear at least $20.00 after shipping and Paypal charges.
But thats just me.

:ninja:

[WickedKlown2]

According to Paypal any "Goods or Services" Sold falls on the seller to pay the fee...

Direct Quote from Paypal : " Fees apply only if the sender uses a credit or debit card, or if you receive any payment for goods or services. " https://www.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_display-receiving-fees-outside&countries=

So when you go into the BST Sections and are Selling Something of yours to a person and you ask them to eat the Paypal fee you are in Violation of Paypal Rules...

When ever I buy something and use Paypal I always use my Credit Card because if there is a dispute or someone doesn't send me the item I purchased then I can call both my Credit Card and Paypal to have it worked out...

So next time you have a Sale ( as Going_Home already pointed out ) make sure you go ahead and figure in paypal fees to your bottom dollar asking amount...

WK2

[Madmarx]

According to Paypal any "Goods or Services" Sold falls on the seller to pay the fee...

Direct Quote from Paypal : " Fees apply only if the sender uses a credit or debit card, or if you receive any payment for goods or services. " https://www.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_display-receiving-fees-outside&countries=

So when you go into the BST Sections and are Selling Something of yours to a person and you ask them to eat the Paypal fee you are in Violation of Paypal Rules...

When ever I buy something and use Paypal I always use my Credit Card because if there is a dispute or someone doesn't send me the item I purchased then I can call both my Credit Card and Paypal to have it worked out...

So next time you have a Sale ( as Going_Home already pointed out ) make sure you go ahead and figure in paypal fees to your bottom dollar asking amount...

WK2

I never said I was asking the buyer to "eat the fee", so I'm not in Violation of anything!
Not sure where you got that from. :tard: http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l74/MadMarx1/smilies-2.gif
I always tell potential buyers to send instant paypal balance transfers only.
They can't seem to follow that simple request or maybe even understand what that means!

[WickedKlown2]

I never said I was asking the buyer to "eat the fee", so I'm not in Violation of anything!
Not sure where you got that from. :tard:
I always tell potential buyers to send instant paypal balance transfers only.
They can't seem to follow that simple request or maybe even understand what that means!

Like I said in my post I prefer to use my Credit Card because if I have to make a dispute I have 2 methods in which to dispute with...

I was showing what Paypal says when it comes to selling Goods... Take the information and use it as you see fit...

I do not wish to start any arguments or e-peen measuring contests...

WK2

[MANN]

I will send personal payments to people I trust. I dont want them go have to eat the fees, and I dont want to either. I rarely buy from people I dont trust anymore.

[Ando]

Like I said in my post I prefer to use my Credit Card because if I have to make a dispute I have 2 methods in which to dispute with...

I was showing what Paypal says when it comes to selling Goods... Take the information and use it as you see fit...

I do not wish to start any arguments or e-peen measuring contests...

WK2
I thought Paypal won't allow you to dispute if you pay with a CC.

[WickedKlown2]

https://cms.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/marketingweb?cmd=_render-content&fli=true&content_ID=ua/BuyerProtComp_full&locale.x=en_US

13.9 Relationship between PayPal’s protection programs and Chargebacks.

Credit card chargeback rights, if they apply, are broader than PayPal’s protection programs. Chargebacks may be filed more than 45 days after the payment, may cover unsatisfactory items even if they do not qualify as SNAD, and may cover intangible items.

You may pursue a Dispute/Claim with PayPal, or you may contact your credit card company and pursue your chargeback rights. You may not pursue both at the same time or seek a double recovery. If you have an open Dispute or Claim with PayPal, and also file a chargeback with your credit card company, PayPal will close your Dispute or Claim, and you will have to rely solely on your chargeback rights.

If PayPal does not make a final decision on your Claim until after your credit card issuer's deadline for filing a Chargeback, and because of our delay you recover less than the full amount you would have been entitled to recover from the credit card issuer, we will reimburse you for the remainder of your loss (minus any amount you have already recovered from the seller).

Before contacting your card issuer or filing a Dispute with PayPal, you should contact the seller to resolve your issue in accordance with the seller’s return policy as stated on their auction or website.

You can do one or the other but not both at the same time...

WK2

[Lohman446]

I am amazed at the people who expect a service to be free.

Paypal provides a service. They charge a reasonable fee. LIEing to get around it (marking it personal gift) is not right. Don't like the fees don't use the service, otherwise get over it.

[Madmarx]

I am amazed at the people who expect a service to be free.

Paypal provides a service. They charge a reasonable fee. LIEing to get around it (marking it personal gift) is not right. Don't like the fees don't use the service, otherwise get over it.

I don't "expect" anything for free... but when there is a published way for me to receive payments without incurring a fee then I will use it. Nothing sneaky or lieing about it. If you have an existing paypal balance and you pay me for an item with it, then I don't get charged plain and simple.
I wasn't complaining about paypal, I love the service.
I was merely stating people seem to be unable to understand the instant balance transfer.

[Madmarx]

Like I said in my post I prefer to use my Credit Card because if I have to make a dispute I have 2 methods in which to dispute with...

I was showing what Paypal says when it comes to selling Goods... Take the information and use it as you see fit...

I do not wish to start any arguments or e-peen measuring contests...

WK2

I guess you are unable to see my point.
Not arguing paypal policy here, I get it .
The problem is the people who are sending payments can't seem to understand my request.
If you have to use a CC then tell the seller that is your only form of payment before you negotiate a final price.
I'll try one more time to explain...
I post a $25 dollar item shipped.
You contact me and say you'll pay $20.
I agree if you are able to pay with an instant paypal balance transfer. (Because I know paypal allows me receive that payment without incurring a fee)
You then (without telling me) send $20 in the form of a CC payment or bank transfer.
Now I have to either deny your payment and go thru a bunch of BS trying to explain why because you didn't complete the deal as requested and agreed to.
It's the same as selling something in person. You tell the guy cash only and he shows up with a personal check.
Are you going to take it?
Not unless you're an idiot.
If you still don't get it then I guess you never will.

[Lohman446]

Sending personal gives the buyer zero protection as I understand it. How are you going to argue that it was a "gift" for an item? As Wicked pointed out fees apply if you are receiving payment for GOODS OR SERVICES. Unless its a gift or one other form of actual personal payment you are in fact lieing to paypal. You can soften that however you want but its what it is.

Besides, are you really concerned about the $.60 on a $20 transfer?

[WickedKlown2]

Once again taken directly from the Paypal User Agreement


https://www.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_display-receiving-fees-outside&countries=

Transaction Fees for Domestic Payments

Sending money

It's always free to send money to friends and family when you use your PayPal balance or bank account. Fees apply only if the sender uses a credit or debit card, or if you receive any payment for goods or services.



https://cms.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/marketingweb?cmd=_render-content&fli=true&content_ID=ua/BuyerProtComp_full&locale.x=en_US

4. Receiving Money.

4.1 Receiving Personal Payments.

If you are selling goods or services, you may not ask the buyer to send you a Personal Payment for the purchase. If you do so, PayPal may remove your ability to accept Personal Payments.



https://cms.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/marketingweb?cmd=_render-content&fli=true&content_ID=ua/BuyerProtComp_full&locale.x=en_US#8

8. Fees.

8.1 Fees Overview.

Fees are based on whether you are making a Purchase Payment or a Personal Payment.

For Purchase Payments, the recipient of the payment will always pay the fee.


Hard to disagree with the facts :eek:

WK2

[SSP REAPER]

I agree with the basic concept MadMarx is going with here. If you agree to pay x amount of dollars for an item and he asks for x amount of dollars, that's what should be paid regardless of fees. I always make sure if someone says "send me $20 and it's yours" that I give them $20 PLUS the 3% fee.

[eckoblazer]

Chiming in late but Madmarx I don't know what you have been doing in the past buy anytime I receive a payment from someone for goods being sold I get a 3% fee taken out. It doesn't matter if they pay with a paypal balance or CC the fee is still the same....

[KC]

Chiming in late but Madmarx I don't know what you have been doing in the past buy anytime I receive a payment from someone for goods being sold I get a 3% fee taken out. It doesn't matter if they pay with a paypal balance or CC the fee is still the same....

Same thing here on my end. Although this isnt the first time Ive heard of paypal accounts that only charge on a CC transactions. :confused:

A public "thank you" to those members trusting enough to send payments via the personal option. :cheers:

[SSP REAPER]

A public "thank you" to those members trusting enough to send payments via the personal option. :cheers:
seconded :cheers:

[Lohman446]

I agree with the basic concept MadMarx is going with here. If you agree to pay x amount of dollars for an item and he asks for x amount of dollars, that's what should be paid regardless of fees. I always make sure if someone says "send me $20 and it's yours" that I give them $20 PLUS the 3% fee.

Did you know that when you use a CC shopping at a retail store the seller pays the CC company a transaction fee usually from about 1.5 to 3% of the transaction? Its common for accepting non-cash non-check payments. I assume that is where Paypal originally came up with the 2.9% - at the time it was in line with major CC companies.

I'm sorry, fee avoidance is against the terms of use that you agreed to with paypal. Tacking on the fee to the buyer is also against the terms of use. Marking something as a gift that is not a gift is lieing.

Do I know people I would send it as a gift if they asked? Probably. That being said I get such deals online that 3% would seldom make or break the deal. Again, if you are accepting paypal price your items accordingly.

Dishonesty is exactly that. No matter what justification you have for it it does not change the fact of the consequences of practicing it. I like paypal. The 3% is worth them inputting the info so I can print a label directly without chances of errors on my end in writing the numbers. Granted I can still stick the wrong label on the wrong package but thats an issue on my end.

[Madmarx]

Sending personal gives the buyer zero protection as I understand it. How are you going to argue that it was a "gift" for an item? As Wicked pointed out fees apply if you are receiving payment for GOODS OR SERVICES. Unless its a gift or one other form of actual personal payment you are in fact lieing to paypal. You can soften that however you want but its what it is.

Besides, are you really concerned about the $.60 on a $20 transfer?


OMG...
Where are you guys getting this "gift" deal.
I NEVER said anything about a gift payment.
It's an existing paypal balance transfer for goods not a gift.
I had no idea this would so difficult to get after explaining it.
At least read my posts before you comment.

[Madmarx]

Give it up Mark.
Just figure the fees in from now on.
All you are doing is making yourself mad because people dont know anything about
Paypal and the fees the seller pays.
Here lately I've come to the conclusion that its just not worth the hassle of packaging something up and going to the Post Office if I cant clear at least $20.00 after shipping and Paypal charges.
But thats just me.

:ninja:

:hail:
I should have listened to you.

[SSP REAPER]

Did you know that when you use a CC shopping at a retail store the seller pays the CC company a transaction fee usually from about 1.5 to 3% of the transaction? Its common for accepting non-cash non-check payments. I assume that is where Paypal originally came up with the 2.9% - at the time it was in line with major CC companies.

I'm sorry, fee avoidance is against the terms of use that you agreed to with paypal. Tacking on the fee to the buyer is also against the terms of use. Marking something as a gift that is not a gift is lieing.

Do I know people I would send it as a gift if they asked? Probably. That being said I get such deals online that 3% would seldom make or break the deal. Again, if you are accepting paypal price your items accordingly.

Dishonesty is exactly that. No matter what justification you have for it it does not change the fact of the consequences of practicing it. I like paypal. The 3% is worth them inputting the info so I can print a label directly without chances of errors on my end in writing the numbers. Granted I can still stick the wrong label on the wrong package but thats an issue on my end.
Your not reading everything clearly apparently. What MadMarx is trying to say is that when a price is set, that's the price. Fees are fees and we all know it's part of using paypal. I'm not saying to make every purchase a "gift" to avoid the fees at all. The issue is that people do not pay using their available balance all the time and go directly to the credit card. Is it because they need to? NO. It's because they can. When you pay with money IN your paypal account it transfers directly minus fees. That's what MadMarx is trying to say. When you change from the norm and decide you want to keep your balance there and pay with a credit card, extra fees are charged because of the choice on the buyers end.

I work in a retail motorcycle shop and the price is the price regardless of what fees the companies charge to accept credit cards. This is why I usually ask the customer "credit or debit" when they hand me a Visa or MC with DEBIT clearly written on it. By going with your debit and pulling the money directly from the account the fees are waived.

[Madmarx]

Once again taken directly from the Paypal User Agreement

Hard to disagree with the facts :eek:

WK2


My bad...
I'm retarded! :tard:
I completely misunderstood the fee rules.
I do believe paypal has changed the rules on personal accounts.
I'll change my posts in the BST right now.

[Lohman446]

Reaper reread post 16 of the current terms of service. If you are purchasing goods you are paying fees. The only way around it is to use personal and receive zero protection. What personal option would you suggest honestly fits the bill? The last change of TOS changed when you pay fees, you can no longer avoid them by using personal. As I understood it once you set up an account to be able to take CC you were charged fees on every transaction, but I don't recall because I did not do a lot of trading nor did I really worry about the 3% ever, this was never a business where I had to worry about overhead / fees / etc. For the couple thousand in paypal I might have done in any given year the fees never amounted to enough to matter.

[KC]

As I understood it once you set up an account to be able to take CC you were charged fees on every transaction

:cuss:


Sending personal gives the buyer zero protection as I understand it. How are you going to argue that it was a "gift" for an item?

I think "payment owed" from the personal payment options would be the better choice. Everyone picks "gift" though...


Did you know that when you use a CC shopping at a retail store the seller pays the CC company a transaction fee usually from about 1.5 to 3% of the transaction? Its common for accepting non-cash non-check payments. I assume that is where Paypal originally came up with the 2.9% - at the time it was in line with major CC companies.

I used to pay ALOT more than that for "merchant services" when I owned my little video game shop.

[SSP REAPER]

If you use the payment owed it does not charge fees.

[KC]

If you use the payment owed it does not charge fees.

I guess I missed the "personal' in MadMarx first post. :tard: I though we were talking about transactions in general. My bad guys.

[Madmarx]

My personal account was not able to accept CC payments before unless I bent over! PP would charge me an even higher fee to do so!!
The way I understand it now is the personal account gets charged the same fees as my premier account. Not sure why I need to keep the premier account anymore?

[teufelhunden]

You accept PayPal as a form of payment - you don't really get to specify any further. I don't keep any money in my PayPal and when I use it, 100% of the time I run it through my credit card. They only have one customer to keep happy (me), as opposed to two customers (you and me) in a dispute. We've all read about PayPal dispute horror stories (i.e. dispute over non-receipt, seller can show verification of shipping something/anything, seller wins even if all he shipped is air)... so I'm sticking with my credit card.

You can try and get people to pay you in some certain way, but by accepting PayPal, you are accepting PayPal as a whole. You're obviously having a hard time trying to control the method of funding the transaction on the other end, seems like your only real way to avoid the issue is to stop using PayPal.

That, or be smart like everybody else and budget in a 3% fee on the payment and raise the price accordingly. On your $20 item, that (rounded) brings it to $21. nbd.

[bornl33t]

Paypal got big because it was convenient and free. Once ebay got their hands on the the fees have steadily increased and rules change significantly at least once a year. Not only that paypal follows up on disputes in a manner that is less then satisfactory. I NEVER buy online without a credit card PERIOD. And secondly I never buy ebay anymore unless it's from a store and/or NEW.

If there's something I need I can find it some where else without having to go through ebay at the same price....usually Amazon.

[Madmarx]

You accept PayPal as a form of payment - you don't really get to specify any further.
WHAT??? This isn't ebay it's AO!! I'm not a friggin' store, these are person to person transactions. If buyer and seller agree to the same terms then it's a done deal.




You can try and get people to pay you in some certain way, but by accepting PayPal, you are accepting PayPal as a whole. You're obviously having a hard time trying to control the method of funding the transaction on the other end, seems like your only real way to avoid the issue is to stop using PayPal.
As I've already stated... people agree to one thing and then do something else, that has absolutely nothing to do with pp rules and the pp rules have changed. I'm sorry I wasn't paying attention ('til now) Who knows when that happened, could have been a year ago for all I know.



That, or be smart like everybody else and budget in a 3% fee on the payment and raise the price accordingly. On your $20 item, that (rounded) brings it to $21. nbd.
ORLY??
Thank you :hail:

[going_home]

In this age of "e" business, its almost impossible not to accept "e" payments.
Lets face it, there really is no viable alternative to Paypal.
Yes others have tried but can you name even one ?
And if you can name one, do you know anyone that uses it ?

Exactly....thats my point.
Paypal is it.

So just dont negotiate, thats the answer.
Set your price including shipping and Paypal fees, and dont sell it unless the price is met.
Its that simple.

Paypal fees are the price you pay for "e" selling.


Always remember kids....


http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_BI56gtSTxwU/R4wjvSbXEfI/AAAAAAAAAHQ/ptkh9TG3BCg/s400/stressed.jpeg



;)

[Madmarx]

Always remember kids....


http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_BI56gtSTxwU/R4wjvSbXEfI/AAAAAAAAAHQ/ptkh9TG3BCg/s400/stressed.jpeg

;)

Thanks
I needed that!! :rofl:

[Bigwooly1013]

when paying for something from a seller i always use the personal payment section and use the payment owed option. This allows for me as the buyer to cover the fees. I have been on both ends of the stick buying and selling so i just know that i don't like seeing the fees come out on items i sell.

I figure if i deal out the good transaction Karma then it will eventually find it's way back to me. And well if it doesn't..... that's what :shooting: is for.

[drg]

It's not kosher to charge a different price based on paypal fees. This is based on Paypal rules which are based on credit card rules, which prohibit surcharges. Just build the fee in to your shipping or base charge.

[Dend78]

personally anymore if im buying an item thats 10 or less i will send you the payment as a gift, not totally safe but that way you get all of your money, once it goes over 10 I will either send an extra dollar on it or just expect that you have that figured into your price.

:cheers: