Pump Stroke Too Hard

[KKPASA]

I have a pump mag with a RetroValve. My problem is that I have to really pop it back to reset the bolt. I've played with a Phantom for a few years and the stroke for my pumpmag is much harder. Is there any way I can make it smoother, softer, easier? :hail: Any help is greatly appreciated. :hail:

[PumpMag]

Try changing out your pump handle spring with a lighter one.

If the tension is still too hard, also change your bolt spring to a shorter one.

[Spider-TW]

A fresh bolt spring helps counter a new wave spring.

Also, you do have the bolt bumper inside the wave spring and not in front or behind it, right?

If you have a level 7 bolt, you might try a longer power tube spacer, in case your fighting that o-ring (iirc)

[KKPASA]

It's not the pump handle spring, it's a light pull.

I don't think it's the wave spring. I do have the bolt bumper inside the wave ring.

I have a Level 10 bolt that came installed with the Retrovalve. I'm not sure if that's the problem. I think I have a regular bolt I could put in it, but I don't have any power tube spacers.

I was thinking that if I had a lighter trigger pull then it would be a lighter pull to recock it, however I've read here on AO that I can put a ULT on a Retrovalve.

I'm open to any suggestions.


Thanks again for all the help.

[Spider-TW]

The trigger pull doesn't make a lot of difference in the pump stroke, unless your sear is crusty where the bolt rides on it. A stock RT on/off should be good.

Level 10s have a reputation for being extra difficult in pump mags, but I haven't tried them there. If you can tune it with a longer bolt spring, that should help. If you have to choose a part to find, I would go with the level 7 bolt in a pump mag, and save or trade the level 10 on your next mag. :rolleyes:

[bbotts77]

I thought I read somewhere that the stock bumpers are too thick with the addition of the wave spring. Are you using a stock bumper or a thinner one? Maybe pull the bumper out and try pumping it.

[BigEvil]

Cant use a lvl 10 with a pump.

[Spider-TW]

Cant use a lvl 10 with a pump.
I suspect it ranks up there with ULTs in classic valves. You hear about it working on occasion, but it's best to just say no.

You could always try to plug the vent port in the level 10, making a high pressure level 7 bolt. :confused: Not a recommendation; just a smart-a remark.

[fishmishin]

A level7 will definitely be much easier to troubleshot. Have you checked to make sure the pump rod itself isn't catching on the body at the back of the stroke?

[flyingpootang]

Your pump rod is dragging under the bolt lip causing the problem. To cure it simply bend the rod up toward the bolt so it hits the bolt face more.....

[zeroack]

I'm sort of having the same problem. Is there any chance that someone could take a few pics of there bolt, wavespring, bolt bumper and valve? I just got a pump mag in trade and am having the same problems. I got it to work pretty good last night after I took OUT the wave spring..or what I think to be the wave spring.

tanx for the help,

zero

[flyingpootang]

I'm sort of having the same problem. Is there any chance that someone could take a few pics of there bolt, wavespring, bolt bumper and valve? I just got a pump mag in trade and am having the same problems. I got it to work pretty good last night after I took OUT the wave spring..or what I think to be the wave spring.

tanx for the help,

zero

Replied from MCB: Zero, The pump arm has to be just far enough forward so that the bent potion of the arm is under the body and the bolt doesn't hit it when going forward. When aired use a squeegee to reset the bolt. If it's easy to do then you need to bend your pump arm a little up to contact the bolt face instead of dragging along the bottom of the bolt lip....

[zeroack]

Working like a dream! I'll post pics tomorrow. Very happy with it. I can't wait to get it onto a field.

Zero

[zeroack]

Well here she is in pre-SPE fashion. I'll get it off to anno after SPE, since I want to use her there....

enjoy...

http://www.tronworx.com/images/purplemag_00.jpg
http://www.tronworx.com/images/purplemag_02.jpg
http://www.tronworx.com/images/purplemag_03.jpg

[KKPASA]

@ bbotts77- Its not the bumper since it's inside the the wave spring.

@ fishmishin & flyingpootang - the pump rod isn't sticking. that was one of the first things I checked.

Now I've tried recocking the bolt with a drum stick and it's just as difficult. So maybe I do need to change the bolt. I'll let you know if it works.

@ zeroack - Nice pumpmag. Post some pictures after you get it annoed.

[flyingpootang]

@ fishmishin & flyingpootang - the pump rod isn't sticking. that was one of the first things I checked.

Now I've tried recocking the bolt with a drum stick and it's just as difficult. So maybe I do need to change the bolt. I'll let you know if it works.

Drum Stick?? As in chicken for dinner?? JK. If it's hard to push back manually its gotta be the on/off pin or the trigger rod is too long. More likely the trigger rod. You should have a credit size gap between the back of the trigger and the front of the trigger rod. If you have a gap check your upper grip screws aren't to long and keeping the sear forward. If not what the length of your on/off pin and what o-ring set up are you using?

[KKPASA]

Not a chicken drum stick. HA HA HA :rofl:
It's a drum stick that I got from a Motley Crue concert. :headbang:

I have the gap needed between the trigger and the trigger rod.

I don't have a micro meter to measure the on/off pin. Do you think that if I sand it down a little it would be easier to cock it back?

I don't know what o-ring setup I'm using.

I thought I would try to use the marker as a semi and it works flawlessly. I decided to switch out the Level 10 bolt with a regular one. It is the same. It's the last quarter inch that is difficult to push. I have to snap the pump rod back. If I try to pull the pump handle back slowly I can't recock it. I guess I'll have to leave it like this for a while. Thanks for all you help guys. It's been very helpful.

[flyingpootang]

If you take off the pump handle, rod, wave spring, and switch out the cut bumper for a normal one will it shoot in semi normally??? Also if you take pics we can ID your parts...

[flyingpootang]

Just a quick note since your new with mags/pumpmags are you using a cut bumper that fits inside of the wave spring?

[KKPASA]

@ flyingpootang thanks for the feed back.

I've been playing with mags for ten years but only within the last two years have I been playing with a pumpmag. I think my novice comes from the fact that other than cleaning, oiling and the occasional part swap I don't know how to customize my mags.

I have a trimmed down blue bumper that sits inside the wave spring. Yes to convert it back to semi I take out the pump rod, the cut down bolt spring, the wave spring and trimmed down blue bumper. Then replace it with a gold spring and a unaltered blue bumper.
As a semi it works fantastic.

I've just been watching videos and reading on here about some of the other pumpmags and wondered why I have to pop mine so hard to recock it. I've seen guys recock theirs with just a finger pull. That's what I want. I was wondering if the cut down bolt spring could be the problem. If it was longer then I would have the springs assistance in recocking it. Just an idea.

If I had someone in my area that knew more about pumpmags, or mags in general, than I do, then I would have them look at it.

I can definitely take some pics. Just let me know what you would like to see a picture of and I can do it.

Thanks again for all the help.

[Smoothice]

Pay for shipping and I'll look at it.

What kind of pump kit is it? It sounds like your pump rod is binding on the rail. May need to put a little extra bend in it. Cerberus kits and rainman kits both have that problem.

I've had an agd kit that needed a LOT of work because of the body I was using.

[flyingpootang]

Pay for shipping and I'll look at it.

What kind of pump kit is it? It sounds like your pump rod is binding on the rail. May need to put a little extra bend in it. Cerberus kits and rainman kits both have that problem.

I've had an agd kit that needed a LOT of work because of the body I was using.

I'll also offer to look at it for free. Not saying smooth doesn't know enough or he's not trust worthy because he does/is, I'm just curious what is hanging it up

[KKPASA]

@ flyingpootang & Smoothice Thank you for the offers to look at my marker.
I'm sure you can understand my apprehension in sending out my pumpmag. What states are you two located in? Maybe if it's not too expensive I might take one of you up on it.

Any comments on my idea about the bolt spring? I think, after all the help from the great minds here on AO that it has to be that my wave spring is too strong. Or that my bolt spring is too weak to help me cock it.

I have an original pump assembly that I got from Drizit and it has everything except a pump rod so I had to make one out of a coat hanger. I think it works as it should. Everything slides smoothly, except the last eighth on an inch where it locks in the bolt behind the sear.

[PumpMag]

KKPASA,

I'm also curious about this too. :confused:

Without seeing or shooting it in person, I'm guessing that it may be possible that your pump rod is too short?

I'm also willing to look at it at no charge, if you pay shipping both ways.

I've been shooting Automag Pumps since 2004, so I really know my way around them.

Is the body and rail factory pump-milled? Or are they machined out corrrectly?

Did you try a classic valve, non-ULT on-off assembly, and level 7 bolt?

[PumpMag]

I have an original pump assembly that I got from Drizit and it has everything except a pump rod so I had to make one out of a coat hanger. I think it works as it should. Everything slides smoothly, except the last eighth on an inch where it locks in the bolt behind the sear.

The coat hanger pump rod is the culprit! :shooting:

[KKPASA]

Ok, I'm willing to consider that it's the pump rod, but why? I can't remember who suggested I use coat hanger wire but they said they've used it with no problems.

And now how would I get another?

[flyingpootang]

I'm in NorCal, and smooth is in the same state. With smooth's and my feedback are impeccable, we're both outstanding members here and other forums, so I don't think you have anything to worry about ;) Either way we can still help via this post...

My feedback:
XMag, EuroMag, Etac FS/T (http://www.mcarterbrown.com/forums/electronic/105268-xmag-euromag-etac-fs-t.html#post1128319)

AO Feedback (http://automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=189897)

MCB Feedback (http://www.mcarterbrown.com/forums/feedback/22251-flyingpootang-s-feedback.html)

PBN Feedback (http://www.pbnation.com/feedback.php?u=16583)

[PumpMag]

Ok, I'm willing to consider that it's the pump rod, but why? I can't remember who suggested I use coat hanger wire but they said they've used it with no problems.


I think it works as it should. Everything slides smoothly, except the last eighth on an inch where it locks in the bolt behind the sear.

The length might be too short by 1/8".

Perhaps also the hanger wire material you are using is a softer material and too small a diameter therefore missing the bolt and sliding under the bolt instead when you are pumping slow. As mentioned earlier, there is also a slight bend upwards in the end tip section of the pump rod.




And now how would I get another?

try Jay8541 from Cerberus Innovations or Rainman229

[PumpMag]

I'm in NorCal, and smooth is in the same state. With smooth's and my feedback are impeccable, we're both outstanding members here and other forums, so I don't think you have anything to worry about ;) Either way we can still help via this post...



Both flyingpootang & Smoothice get my endorsement! Both are Clareball veterans!

[PumpMag]

The length might be too short by 1/8".

Perhaps also the hanger wire material you are using is a softer material and too small a diameter therefore missing the bolt and sliding under the bolt instead when you are pumping slow. As mentioned earlier, there is also a slight bend upwards in the end tip section of the pump rod.




Here is how it should look when you pump it back against the bolt:

http://www.pentestone.com/paintball/PumpMag/PumpMag%20034.jpg

Here is how it should look when you release the pump handle forward:

http://www.pentestone.com/paintball/PumpMag/PumpMag%20035.jpg

Pics By Brent Hoefling AKA RamboPreacher

[zeroack]

I got mine running great with a small tweak up at the end of the rod. It was sticking pretty badly also. I also filed the burrs off the end that had formed from it getting stuck...etc. My question now is how many of you have made your own pump rods? When my pump is in it's "resting" state it's very drawn down into the rail. I'm wondering if I couldn't make a rod that's longer and shorten up the pump stroke even more. I went to the local hardware store and looked at there brass and steel rod selection. Smallest they go is 1/8th in.. However they do have some welding rod that was smaller and very stiff. I'd just need to knock off the flux.

Thanks for all the help again.

Zero

[fishmishin]

I have been working on making my own, and I have thrown a bunch of them in the trash in the process. Finding the right material is a chore, I have tried all kinds of stuff, regular round stock, filler rod, welding rod, and so far everything has been way to soft of a metal and doesn't last very long. I am planning on ordering some SS this week to give it a try next. So if you can find somebody that has some in stock that would be a lot easier.

[Ando]

Tempered steel will work and I'm pretty sure they sell it at depot or lowes. That's what Jays kits are made from.

[fishmishin]

Yeah I have checked at Lowe's and Home Depot locally, and neither of them carry it. I have to make a run to Norfolk today so I am probably going to hit Steel Services while I'm out there to see what I can find there.

[zeroack]

I know this is really getting geeky but, one could temper there own mild steel couldn't they? Same as a knife when it needs tempered?

Zero

[Ando]

You'll need to get it stupid hot in order to do that tho. Putting it in your BBQ grill isn't going to cut it. :p

[fhawkeye]

Cant use a lvl 10 with a pump.

what about the lvl10 makes it incompatible with a pump kit exactly?

[Ando]

I haven't tried myself but I believe it's due to the carriers. There's not a lot of wiggle room unlike a lvl 7 but where there's a will, there's a way.

People said the same thing about a E-Mag and ULT combo but I got one running 100% in mine. Took a lot of tinkering and about 3 tanks of air but it's rocking one.

Only thing with pump mags, the pump rod is eventually is going to tear up the bolt to the point that you'll have to replace it. Now the big question is are you willing to sacrifice a lvl 10 for the sake of not busting balls :rolleyes:

I'm going to look at finding a softer metal to use for my pump rod. I'd rather replace my rod ever 3-5 games then replace a bolt ever year or so depending how much you use it. Until I find something suitable. I probably won't try to tune a lvl 10 for pump.

[zeroack]

No the BBQ wouldn't do it. But his forge would. If I got three or four rods for testing set up and had him temper them. That would work.

Zero

[Smoothice]

Pm jay8541 (I think that's it). I'm sure he can get you a replacement.

You said you could get us pics right?

I want to see a picture of:

your wave spring and blue bumper on your bolt. One pic from the top and one pic of the face.


Was the body and rail factory milled?

[Ando]

Jay doesn't have anymore rods.

[zeroack]

I made up a "hanger" pump rod last night just to experiment with rod lengths. First one I made was about 5mm longer then the original one I had. It was ok but not the huge improvement I was looking for. Next one was a full 1cm longer and that was the ticket. Nice short tap on the front and it's setting the bolt just fine with no rubbing what so ever. Now I just need to find a better material to make it out of. I have to think that the clothes hanger rod is flexing a little compared to the stock one. So I'll run by the local parts store and see if the 1/8 inch steel rod will work for me. I think with a bit of filing it will be fine.

Zero